Harrassment of players and player events

[onnie]

Every second weekend my kin and another kin on Nimrodel server host concerts in Bree, about 4 months now a group of players from the moors comes in and ruins the concerts for the server ;( This has been happening at every concert. They play while the 2 bands play, they get off and on a warsteed so the horn blares its loud noise. We have reported many times and it has gotten us no where, so I am inviting a GM who cares about its friendly players to come and watch a show. This was aimed at just the concerts but has now moved to player harrassment and I would love to see this issue addressed. Thanks

[Matttail]

I know that I have reported each person who harreses the band each time they show up. For the concert last weekend I used both the right-click and report harassment as well as opening a ticket for each of the people who were there making trouble. My tickets were mainly closed by a GM, but a senior GM closed on of them. Nothing happened. Looking over my ticket history I have 14 harassment tickets that have just been closed without any response.

I currently also have a ticket open with support.turbine.com asking what I can do as obviously the in game reporting does nothing. If a GM is reading this the ticket number is 24001-547076 and 24001-547090. Can we ask a GM to attend the event and monitor the situation? What can we do besides open tickets that just get closed?

Personally I'm about fed up with it. If Turbine won't do anything I see no point in trying to have server wide events if one or three people can ruin it for the rest of the server.

[Wistarenia]

The files they choose to play over the bands that perform are the kind with as many notes as possible which has resulted in severe lag and for members of both band and audience to nearly dc. They hurl insults and use foul language. As stated previously they blow horns repeatedly, canceling the summon of the mount to sound it off over and over again. We have video proof of much of this dating back for months. Dozens of us report them while the (often over hour long) harassment goes on and have for months and nothing is ever done. We are fed up. The harassment has now turned to individual members of the kin being targeted, our leader has been saving the logs but at this stage I hardly see the point. We have actually had members of other kins ask us to stop using the Bree stage and start having the concerts inside our kin houses because no one on this server expects any sort of official response any more and assumes we are on our own to deal with this.

[robbie1435]

I am sorry to hear that... Over on Dwarrowdelf, we just post every 5 minutes in /say with a message: /ignore add name. People ignore the trolls, and report them. Since they are VIP though, they actually have less of a chance to get banned, because they are valued more as customers... (Long story, business technique). But you should always ignore and report them. In the mean time, I think I will roll a toon on Nimrodel so I can come watch one of your shows!

[Ryuthou]

Is there realy nothing else we can do than just add them to ignore list, turn all other sounds off so we wont hear the horns and just act like they are not there? I understand that turbine wont do anything becouse they are VIPs, but at least they could act like they care and have a chat with them about having fun and letting others have fun too

[Socialz]

It is very unfair to treat VIP members as "higher value". It doesn't matter whether or not they are paying, they're breaking the rules of the server - the policies that the game developers have set up. You can't just avoid from doing actions at any member for any reason regardless of the situation. Constant trolling and harrasment is considered as bad behavior in every multiplayer game I know.

If the Game Moderators are unable to fill their duties, why not just resign them all out and make a total revamp into the system - perhaps giving us, players, some more privileges like vote kicking or whatever. Or perhaps recruit regular members to fulfill the Game Moderator duty even if they had no permission to ban a member, but at least kick them or temporarily jail them somewhere. If this goes on, it's just nothing but a fairly big issue to Turbine, because you're about to lose a bunch of players if this never ends.

I'd be more than glad to give you some advice on how to make a properly structured moderator program in order to get some real and fast support in the game. If you want to keep on going with slow support with over a week time responses - good luck with surviving a half a year. I love the work you guys do, but please, put more effort into player support - and don't give me that "VIPs get fast support". I never pay to get help - in fact, you could lose all that bad reputation on "everything from chat usage up to player support costs real money" if you just read the previous paragraph above.

Hopefully Turbine Support will take all these points into account and really try to revamp the support system. It's not only slow from the technical standpoint, but also very slow when it comes down to responses. Get your boots straightened, Turbine - you're walking down very deep waters.

EDIT:
In addition to your Turbine Support - don't come at me with "VIPs pay monthly to keep us alive" - oh come on, can't you see who you're working for? Turbine is related to Warner Bros. If you're having trouble with paying the wages for your useless Turbine Support, then ask them to loan you some more cash to give them a chance to buy their bread for their family. Honestly, all this "pay to win" stuff is really true, except, Turbine is breaking their own policies on that one.

I payed for Riders of Rohan expansion when I was around level 20. And Rohan is around level 80+, so there is really not much of an advancement to buy it before you've gained a high level. I am a paying customer, I really love the game, I bought an expansion pack when I was 60 levels lower than it's meant for. I am a paying customer too in that case, not only VIPs, so get your facts straight. In addition to that, I am going to buy the three pack and Helm's Deep expansion and three of those expansion packs are higher level than I am right now. Again, I am a paying customer.

Or just take it this way; as the issue is about a group of trolls causing issues at a concert stage while others are playing at it; would you like to be working at your Boston HQ while 5 trolls are bursting horns and stepping on their horses while you're trying to work on a very detailed concept art that you're about to publish in-game? I doubt not. So please understand the situation and not leave us alone with this problem, after all we're the ones that make your game shine.

EDIT x2:
I am a co-founder of a business in real life myself and I have been taught in my business course lessons that doing things like you do to improve VIPs "stay like it's your house" can be a small bit of a good thing, but it's more than enough of a very bad thing and it will cause a lot of problems with reputation and your value on the market. If it's your policy not to take actions against VIPs, bam, that's the issue you should fix now.

This is constructive criticism, now learn from it.

[Theofried]

I wasn´t there, only heard about it. But still. What good is reporting if there is no effect at all? Seems we are not speaking about a single occurence
And how immature do you need to be to try and ruin a concert again and again?

[Astilarth]

It's really sad that ppl come and ruin others good time. And if nothing is going to happen to prevent this kinda stuff, is even more sad.

[Gunslinger53]

I suppose as a kin leader and the leader of Mixed & Matched I must add my two coppers worth. I have reported, ignored, sent tickets, etc., but I have also contacted the leaders of the kinships the harassing people belong to. Even as kin leaders, we have no enforcement power all we can do is boot them from the kin. All of them do not condone the harassment and said they wish Turbine would do something to quash that type of behavior.

I realize that the game is suppose to be fun, but if that fun is to attempt to disrupt community events and harass other players that is simply immature. I wonder what response someone would get after being arrested for a crime and telling the police "oh, I was just having fun." Anyway your get the picture.

The concert we did last Sunday was special we combined both bands into a 12 piece band and made special 12 part music for the event. We spend time and effort to put on a good show for those who want to listen. We want Sunday Rocks to be an event Nimrodel can be proud of as a community. I plan on send Sapience a link to the concert videos, even though they show the harassment but at least you can only hear the good music. I will also send him an invitation to attend one of our concerts if he is available.

For those who wish to see the videos here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGEZv...DBPcPM2hBoVMSU

I would; however, like to thanks all of those on Nimrodel who attend our concerts and enjoy our efforts.

Great adventures all!

[YamydeAragon]

I wonder about the back story. Are the concerts given every day? Are the concerts given several times a day? Do the concerts last several hours? Are the people the randomly pass by on a horse scolded? Are the people that just walk in & out of the prancing pony & summon their horse scolded?

[Theofried]

The concerts are usually about an hour long, about every other Sunday if I remember correctly. Could only attend once, fortunately only one player disturbed it. And no, people riding by are not scolded.

I wonder about the back story. Are the concerts given every day? Are the concerts given several times a day? Do the concerts last several hours? Are the people the randomly pass by on a horse scolded? Are the people that just walk in & out of the prancing pony & summon their horse scolded?

[Phakopf]

I find it very disturbing that the ingame moderation appears to be biased or broken. Poor behavior by some individuals that is not investigated and dealt with quickly breeds larger issues that ruin some of the unique gameplay in Lotro. The whole player music ability is a huge draw for more folks than one think and having a small group routinely interfere with this without active and escalating response from GM's is intolerable.

[Pendenros]

While I have not been present at any of the concerts and thus have not seen this behavior first hand, I must say I am extremely disappointed both in the individuals responsible for these deplorable acts and the lack of action by the GMs and by Turbine.

I simply cannot understand what these people are trying to accomplish by causing so much trouble during what should be a community building event.
How can these events affect other peoples enjoyment of the game? If they don't like listening to the music, there is an option to disable player music: problem solved. If the gathering is perhaps causing latency in Bree during the event, why not just avoid the place during that time? The dates and times of the concerts are known right?

[lambuster]

I was at the last 4 or 5 concert attempts on nimrodel.It's always the same group of 5-6 people disrupting and reporting them is like talking to a wall.I would l;ike to see a demerit system where you can click /demerit NAME OF OFFENDER, and if they get say 20 they would be immediately suspended.Has to be 20 separate accts too so nobody can just decide to nail someone by themselves.
They are ruining our enjoyment of the game...if they want to grief people they can stay in the moors.

[PatGil1]

It is very unfair to treat VIP members as "higher value". It doesn't matter whether or not they are paying, they're breaking the rules of the server - the policies that the game developers have set up. You can't just avoid from doing actions at any member for any reason regardless of the situation. Constant trolling and harrasment is considered as bad behavior in every multiplayer game I know.

If the Game Moderators are unable to fill their duties, why not just resign them all out and make a total revamp into the system - perhaps giving us, players, some more privileges like vote kicking or whatever. Or perhaps recruit regular members to fulfill the Game Moderator duty even if they had no permission to ban a member, but at least kick them or temporarily jail them somewhere. If this goes on, it's just nothing but a fairly big issue to Turbine, because you're about to lose a bunch of players if this never ends.

I'd be more than glad to give you some advice on how to make a properly structured moderator program in order to get some real and fast support in the game. If you want to keep on going with slow support with over a week time responses - good luck with surviving a half a year. I love the work you guys do, but please, put more effort into player support - and don't give me that "VIPs get fast support". I never pay to get help - in fact, you could lose all that bad reputation on "everything from chat usage up to player support costs real money" if you just read the previous paragraph above.

Hopefully Turbine Support will take all these points into account and really try to revamp the support system. It's not only slow from the technical standpoint, but also very slow when it comes down to responses. Get your boots straightened, Turbine - you're walking down very deep waters.

EDIT:
In addition to your Turbine Support - don't come at me with "VIPs pay monthly to keep us alive" - oh come on, can't you see who you're working for? Turbine is related to Warner Bros. If you're having trouble with paying the wages for your useless Turbine Support, then ask them to loan you some more cash to give them a chance to buy their bread for their family. Honestly, all this "pay to win" stuff is really true, except, Turbine is breaking their own policies on that one.

I payed for Riders of Rohan expansion when I was around level 20. And Rohan is around level 80+, so there is really not much of an advancement to buy it before you've gained a high level. I am a paying customer, I really love the game, I bought an expansion pack when I was 60 levels lower than it's meant for. I am a paying customer too in that case, not only VIPs, so get your facts straight. In addition to that, I am going to buy the three pack and Helm's Deep expansion and three of those expansion packs are higher level than I am right now. Again, I am a paying customer.

Or just take it this way; as the issue is about a group of trolls causing issues at a concert stage while others are playing at it; would you like to be working at your Boston HQ while 5 trolls are bursting horns and stepping on their horses while you're trying to work on a very detailed concept art that you're about to publish in-game? I doubt not. So please understand the situation and not leave us alone with this problem, after all we're the ones that make your game shine.

sounds like a great solution to the problem. I think it would be fun tossing players into jail.

[Socialz]

sounds like a great solution to the problem. I think it would be fun tossing players into jail.

That's not the point. The point is that we want to jail people fairly regardless of which expansion pack and subscription they have. A community-ran moderation team would make that work just fine, or just revamp the moderation team and make it work that wise.

And what goes to "tossing players into jail" - even if you were a moderator, you'd first go through several months of trial period to show off how well you're doing with responding to tickets and in-game quick reports related to player-category (e.g. harrassment, illegal playernames, etc.) You wouldn't be tossing people in the jail. You'd find the best solution to address the issue and then resolve it that way, instead of just banning everyone with a ban hammer of level 95.

[Grimdi]

I would l;ike to see a demerit system where you can click /demerit NAME OF OFFENDER, and if they get say 20 they would be immediately suspended.Has to be 20 separate accts too so nobody can just decide to nail someone by themselves.

While I sympathize with your situation, this is an extremely bad idea. Even if you'd require reports from 50 unique VIP accounts before taking action it's way too easy to abuse. Just takes one person with too much money+time or a loyal kin with an angry leader. There needs to be an neutral human review involved when we're talking about disciplinary action.

[Peresbert]

When I run public events, I always receive harassment and event trollers. What I do is chat capture/log them into a text file. Go into the tab they are on and select that feature. You then attach those files to the report and send it in. If that does not work (and they are a severe issue to players), go to the least busy Turbine Community employees in the forums. Something will get done if you make a big enough splash, and have enough people on your side.

[Padhrunnir]

While it is bad enough that there is this behavior taking place at server wide concerts, when it moves from someone acting badly in a public space to directing the harassment at individual players and groups, and action STILL isn't being taken despite multiple reports, it is just negligence on the part of Turbine. It is in their best interest to ensure that their paying customers feel safe when playing their game.

[AkarisEllucid]

I approve of this thread greatly! Besides, you guys already mentioned a perfectly good opportunity to not have your concert "greifed". Host it in your own personal kin house, add your guests to the list, you could even have a nice little entry person stamping peoples hands on the way in, that would be perfect for your role playing tastes right?

Public server, public area of the game... equal rights for all. You can simply ignore anyone who chooses to have their own fun at your expense and if it's only about the music, then you, as you already mentioned, can just turn other sound effects down. But, since you are trying not to give the so called "trolls" attention, congratulations on making a forum thread about them!

[onnie]

This is a community event and listed on the Calendar here so why would we take a community event to our kinhouse?

[AkarisEllucid]

So you don't have to deal with your unwanted problems? If you choose to have it in a public forum, then you choose to subject yourselves to said things. I fail to see why you don't invite the community to your kin house. Perhaps the server doesn't want you lagging out bree inviting lots of people there when the servers already lag in Bree.

It is simple really...

[onnie]

I do not lag from the concerts any more than I lag from the game, you are missing the point of the post to even discuss LAG :P

[Wistarenia]

We have tried the ignore and report method for four months. Believe me this is a final resort. But you would suggest we continue doing the same thing and expect different results? This is our attempt to reach out to the wider LOTRO community and/or GMs for help and advice and you tell us to keep doing what we have been doing or stop using the community space for a community event? Apparently it is your opinion that the one player has more rights then the thirty (and that is being generous, we are a small server) who have gathered there. I don't understand how you larger servers manage your public events with all of them from Weatherstock on down taking place inside private homes and kin houses where you cower in fear from the one to three trolls on your server.

Edit:

To be more succinct, how do other servers handle this? We have never had a serverwide monthly event before now and this is new to us.

[AkarisEllucid]

I feel that you are missing the point of the whole "Ignore them" if you are going to post a forum thread about them for them all to see! lol! Plus, since one of you mentioned the music they play is lagging the server during your event, I felt it was more than appropriate to mention the crowd you bring to bree causing lag there too!

All in all, it is your choice to host it at the bree stage (one of MANY stages in lotro) so deal with it lol.