Gold HD Loot (READ)

[Grimdi]

Based on this role, it would then provide a piece of gear with role-specific states (or set bonuses). The way that I believe it functions right now, is that you could theoretically switch trait lines before claiming/looting, and you would be provided with gear relevant to that spec (a feature I'm not necessarily opposed to). HOWEVER, I still need to play around with things a bit. Also, the intent would be to have this in more sooner than later, but I can't give definites on a release yet.

Hmm, that might help a little when you're after gear for your selected spec, but often I might use a spec because I already have the gear for it, in that case it would be counter-productive. And all the auto-selection mechanics are going against the "promotion of choice" that was one of the marketing points of the class revamp. Is it really such a big deal to add another option (like the "medal upgrade" option) in the EB UI to convert medals into barter tokens? So instead of one piece of gear you get one barter token, and barter cost for gear is 3-5 tokens (maybe 10-20 for golds if you're fancy). Would keep the current random aspect viable as it's way faster to get gear that way but minimize frustration for those people that prefer optimizing their gear.

[Maegren]

Thank you to the OP, and thank you to Verizal. This thread has gone a long way to restoring my faith and trust in Turbine.

My views: the first stage fix being talked about would go some way to help. But implementation would be an issue. I read this and was a bit concerned:

The way that I believe it functions right now, is that you could theoretically switch trait lines before claiming/looting,

If only this were true. Instead, there is no lootbox, or interaction to end the battle. No NPC conversation. It just ends and you get booted out. So there would not be any time to switch trait lines.

While of some help, it wouldn't help with the central issue which is, getting duplicates of the same thing. So, say there are two pieces for a trait line, let's call it pocket and necklace. The fix we are talking about here would mean that you get a roll chance within your chosen trait line. It would not stop you getting the same thing you already had ( you have the pocket, you want the necklace, you get another pocket)

I think the solution has to be a barter system.

This shouldn't cheapen or diminish the value of the reward. There is no reason why the tokens cannot be incredibly rare and difficult to find. As an example, check out the drop rate on emerald shards. What we are talking about here is something that would drop at 1/1000th or 1/10000th the rate of an emerald shard.

But the reason why you would surely want to go the token route for the long term fix is that it gives you so much more flexibility.

First, tokens give you choice. You get the thing you really desire.

Second, tokens give you time. You can think about the choice you want to make, go research it, ask around.

Third, you can add a feed up hierarchy. Spend 1,000 platinum tokens, get a pristine token.

Fourth, tokens can stack. So, that really incredibly rare pristine item you can get with one token? If you get 2, then you get something that would truly be legendary

Fifth, you can link tokens to other incredibly difficult to achieve quests or meta deeds. Achievements that would make you a legendary character on your server

Just don't put them on sale in the store

[Maegren]

And one other point....

make these things worth striving for. While the show off value is great, actually an extra plus 30 / plus 30 on the stats isn't that exciting in the grand scheme of things. I can get more than that by having beans on toast

Plus, when the next xpac comes out...these will be obsolete after the turn in on a level 96 quest. Like those bounders bounty pieces. So...

make them amazing, with enduring value. unique cooldowns. +10 skill points (oh yes please). access to some truly incredible instance that no one can get into...something fabulous

[Whiteberry_Laurelin]

In a conclusion this means i would never get a tanking item in Big Battles. In Battles you often don't have the opportunity to switch roles before you get a platinum chest reward. (i.e. sidequests)

My point exactly. The system would work well for instances, etc., but not for Epic Battles as they are now.

[Othniel]

I am not sure about that, i am playing Keen Blade in every single Big Battle because Defender of the Free and Fighter of Shadow seem to be completely useless in the new Battles. Its all about DPS, threat and surviveability did not play a role so far. On the other side in Raids i am going with the yellow or blue line to fit in the tanking role.

In a conclusion this means i would never get a tanking item in Big Battles. In Battles you often don't have the opportunity to switch roles before you get a platinum chest reward. (i.e. sidequests)

This would be a major concern I would have as well. Classes that have tank or healer roles may be partially penalized by this, as it pays off much more to spec DPS in the Epic Battles (aside from a few specific side-quests where I purposely switch to my captain's tank spec - such as protecting the horses in Helm's Dike). What if there were a setting we could check at the beginning of the instance for which spec's loot pool we want to pull from? Or if there were a way to stop auto-granting loot and putting it in a chest at the end like most instances have? Example: The instance gives you three chests to choose from that are CLEARLY marked, one for each spec, and once you have looted one, the other two lock you out?

My preference would be a barter system where tokens drop instead of the actual loot, not only for the class-set pieces, but all jewelry as well. I keep getting pocket items on my cappy, for example. >.< Wouldn't be bad if I could sell them on auction, and it feels like a shame to just vendor them.

[YesMaam]

I don't know if anyone said this already in this thread but it has been confirmed that the dropping of neck and pocket is INTENTIONAL.

Personally I was infuriated when I heard this as I know many people have spent dozens to hundreds of hours trying to get an item of a name for a set that doesn't exist.

The reasoning? Turbine doesn't want us to get all of our golds fast or at once.

Seriously? This is the solution? If you don't want us to get golds fast make the instance harder or something. Don't make it so easy you sleep and then give us 2 golds every 3 months to quench on loot thirst like it is some kind of ration.

Honestly with how broken this update is I patiently waited for Moors and instance fixes which alot are coming, but this shady move disturbed me and I find the current lack of armor and this restriction of jewelery a sign that Turbine either doesnt care or has no idea what they are doing.

[Gardhik]

For BB : Just let us open the box in order to loot (and maybe give us a random choice between one piece of each line).

Eg : I have 20 platinum medals, I go to my BB panel and click on the platinium chest. A windows open and offer me three jewellry and I can pick only one :

1 > Blue tanking jewellry
2 > Yellow Tankdps jewellry
3 > Red dps jewellry

Smooth and easy ?

It's even let you the choice to gear tankdps even if you play a blue guardian (as I have never trully understand the power of the yellow line....).

[Bombadil411]

Trust me, I am fully aware of the horrors of RNG, and am in the process of working out some potential solutions to ease the pain.

I so desperately wish this were true, yet I find it extremely difficult to believe considering the current loot system epitomizes the very essence of what all MMO players hate MOST in an RNG based loot system. How did the system make it this far if you are so aware of these horrors? Perhaps getting feedback from players BEFORE launching a "completed" product such as an expansion would be to your benefit, because I guarantee you that people who have a favorable opinion of this current system are among the minority.

Hey all, back for a quick update.

So as one of my potential solutions, I'm going to be looking into implementing a spec-based loot system. That is, if you receive loot as a tank, it will be tank-oriented. The same goes for dps and healers (although at this point there is not a huge difference between those two). It seems like something that we would capable of doing, it just may take a bit of time on my end.

I do, however, realize that this is only a partial solution to the issues that many of you are having with RNG, so I do not plan on stopping there, and need to work some things out over here to figure out what the next best step would be. I appreciate all of the feedback so far, and I want you to know that I will be taking it into consideration as I iron out some of the remaining details.

A couple of people have already voiced my criticisms with this idea, but I will reiterate: give us a barter option that doesn't cost a criminal amount of seals, and completely do away with RNG ALTOGETHER, if you are as opposed to it as you claim to be. I promise, NO ONE will think less of you for it.

So to clarify on a few things, if this went in, much like with class-specific loot, it would also look at your current primary trait-line to determine your role. Since I'm pretty familiar with the Guardian, I'll use that as an example:

Defender of the Free: Tank
Keen Blade: DPS
Fighter of Shadow: Tank

Based on this role, it would then provide a piece of gear with role-specific states (or set bonuses). The way that I believe it functions right now, is that you could theoretically switch trait lines before claiming/looting, and you would be provided with gear relevant to that spec (a feature I'm not necessarily opposed to). HOWEVER, I still need to play around with things a bit. Also, the intent would be to have this in more sooner than later, but I can't give definites on a release yet.

Sorry, but this is, in my opinion, a terrible solution to a problem that should have never existed in the first place. My problem with the current system is not just that I have to get a piece to drop that has the stats that I'm looking for, but also that I need to get a piece to drop that has the right stats AND belongs in the slot that I still need an item for. Your solution would remedy the former problem, assuming I remember to switch trait lines before the end of every side quest I do and some time before the end of the battle, which does not currently offer any indication of WHEN the end of the battle might be, but the latter issue is still unresolved. Plus, having to switch trait lines before the end of a side quest would be inconvenient and annoying at the best of times. Again, what would be so unspeakably taboo about a barter system that it is making it not even on the table?

I would also suggest making ALL necklace and pocket items from big battles unique and somehow prevent them from dropping while my character currently possesses that particular item. I've gone through 3 or 4 of the same pocket item on my burglar, yet I still have multiple slots that are not filled with items bearing appropriate stats for my build.

[Old_Relic]

So to clarify on a few things, if this went in, much like with class-specific loot, it would also look at your current primary trait-line to determine your role. Since I'm pretty familiar with the Guardian, I'll use that as an example:

Defender of the Free: Tank
Keen Blade: DPS
Fighter of Shadow: Tank

Based on this role, it would then provide a piece of gear with role-specific states (or set bonuses). The way that I believe it functions right now, is that you could theoretically switch trait lines before claiming/looting, and you would be provided with gear relevant to that spec (a feature I'm not necessarily opposed to). HOWEVER, I still need to play around with things a bit. Also, the intent would be to have this in more sooner than later, but I can't give definites on a release yet.

Can we not just be rewarded with tokens that can be exchanged for what we want, rather than a RNG based system. I'm not sure that many players plan to run HD 100's of times so that they can complete a set, while receiving the same item time and time again. It's bad enough have to deal with a RNG based allocation of sub-quests.

Your own example shows the problem with auto allocation, Fighter of Shadow allows both 1HD and 2HD weapons so is used by both DPSs and Tanks, in fact when playing HD it is often a better option for DPS focussed players than Keen Blade.

[Verizal]

So I just want to remind everyone that the role-based loot system would only be part of the solution, and I still have some work to do before determining exactly how it would function.

In regards to other solutions, we are looking into the issue of receiving the same drop over and over again as one of the potential areas to address, and I am personally toying around with ideas for bartering in general. I do believe in keeping RNG present in some aspects, but I am not completely opposed to the idea of making certain items in our game more readily available. Keep in mind though, that much of development is a process. And whereas I would love to simply be able to implement many of these solutions, it often times takes more than just a single person to do so. I will keep everyone updated with further progress on the issue, however, as it is something I want to address as soon as possible.

[STEAL107]

As long as you don't end up getting 2 pieces of exactly the same loot from a skraid chest that nobody can use...

This will always happen you cant run a raid and every single time get something new for every single person who ever runs the raids , come on. That is being selfish. Basically you can run Flight 1000 times in a row and you want something everyone can use everytime you loot is what your saying. Then according to other posts you want the items tradable to boot wow. How about spend 1000 tp and gear your toon out with gold items at cap hows that. No work, no earning it, just give it to you for being at cap with one toon .

[Peter_Pan]

So I just want to remind everyone that the role-based loot system would only be part of the solution, and I still have some work to do before determining exactly how it would function.

In regards to other solutions, we are looking into the issue of receiving the same drop over and over again as one of the potential areas to address, and I am personally toying around with ideas for bartering in general. I do believe in keeping RNG present in some aspects, but I am not completely opposed to the idea of making certain items in our game more readily available. Keep in mind though, that much of development is a process. And whereas I would love to simply be able to implement many of these solutions, it often times takes more than just a single person to do so. I will keep everyone updated with further progress on the issue, however, as it is something I want to address as soon as possible.

Thanks again for your response Verizal.

I agree the RNG must be kept in play in some way or another. With it completely removed, everything would feel much more like a grind than it does now, as you lose the feeling that you might get something good this run. As such, I'm fine with the way loot is handled in instances and skirmish raids, and also with incomparable loot in Big Battles (although I would like some way to turn off tank loot until I have all my DPS gear).
However, since the epic quality loot is already so rare, I'm of the opinion that when we finally get the odds in our favour and get an epic drop, it should be the one we want; receiving a barter coin (with the same chance as epic items currently have) would work much better than the current implementation, as far as I can tell.

[Whiteberry_Laurelin]

So I just want to remind everyone that the role-based loot system would only be part of the solution, and I still have some work to do before determining exactly how it would function.

In regards to other solutions, we are looking into the issue of receiving the same drop over and over again as one of the potential areas to address, and I am personally toying around with ideas for bartering in general. I do believe in keeping RNG present in some aspects, but I am not completely opposed to the idea of making certain items in our game more readily available. Keep in mind though, that much of development is a process. And whereas I would love to simply be able to implement many of these solutions, it often times takes more than just a single person to do so. I will keep everyone updated with further progress on the issue, however, as it is something I want to address as soon as possible.

Thank you for listening and explaining the ongoing work. Personally, I am happy to know that these concerns and ideas are taken into consideration by the person who does the work and I don't expect everything to be possible or fast to implement. Your explanations and updates here are much appreciated.

[Southers]

So I just want to remind everyone that the role-based loot system would only be part of the solution, and I still have some work to do before determining exactly how it would function.

In regards to other solutions, we are looking into the issue of receiving the same drop over and over again as one of the potential areas to address, and I am personally toying around with ideas for bartering in general. I do believe in keeping RNG present in some aspects, but I am not completely opposed to the idea of making certain items in our game more readily available. Keep in mind though, that much of development is a process. And whereas I would love to simply be able to implement many of these solutions, it often times takes more than just a single person to do so. I will keep everyone updated with further progress on the issue, however, as it is something I want to address as soon as possible.

Can RNG not be worked on so that it becomes less and less random. Surely you could override it so that items are much more unlikely to be duplicated, where the RNG will take into account what we have already.

RNG is a much better loot system for many people because it reduces the feeling of a grind (for barter items - "oh i need 2500 more tokens yay") to a feeling of ("ill just do another run i'm feeling luck tonight")

If the system was clearly defined, well layed out and presented in a manor which gave players half a chance of what they were doing then it could work.

I suggest modify RNG to take into account gear which chars have, and put in tooltips on each of the instances/ skirms in the instance finder panel that say details such as 5% chance to receive incomparable leg Armour for your class/ 10% chance to receive (Eoywns Bracelet) -Bad example i have no idea whats what...

[GithlithMonaghan]

In regards to other solutions, we are looking into the issue of receiving the same drop over and over again as one of the potential areas to address, and I am personally toying around with ideas for bartering in general. I do believe in keeping RNG present in some aspects, but I am not completely opposed to the idea of making certain items in our game more readily available. Keep in mind though, that much of development is a process. And whereas I would love to simply be able to implement many of these solutions, it often times takes more than just a single person to do so. I will keep everyone updated with further progress on the issue, however, as it is something I want to address as soon as possible.

Bartering items usually means farming them. And farming means playing the same content over and over again. You can only make sure your full content is being played if there's certain things that can only be accomplished or obtained in specific instances. If you can get any item you wish by just playing school, most people will only be playing school. I saw all the phenomenons of the Northcrofts, of Durchest, Erebor-Raid T1, Sambrog, Thadur. It will remain the very same. People will go the easiest way to get their equip if you allow them to. So please don't. Anyone who likes to run through different instances, will not be pleased if it gets really hard to find company for other instances than the quickest ones.

Bartering our full equip for signs, meds and seals or any other currency would kill the scaleable endgame.

[Malaras]

Bartering items usually means farming them. And farming means playing the same content over and over again. You can only make sure your full content is being played if there's certain things that can only be accomplished or obtained in specific instances. If you can get any item you wish by just playing school, most people will only be playing school. I saw all the phenomenons of the Northcrofts, of Durchest, Erebor-Raid T1, Sambrog, Thadur. It will remain the very same. People will go the easiest way to get their equip if you allow them to. So please don't. Anyone who likes to run through different instances, will not be pleased if it gets really hard to find company for other instances than the quickest ones.

Bartering our full equip for signs, meds and seals or any other currency would kill the scaleable endgame.

Definitly sign. I also hate it when people only search for a few Instances because you get all items/barter coins in these.

[Grimdi]

Anyone who likes to run through different instances, will not be pleased if it gets really hard to find company for other instances than the quickest ones.

Sorry, but the specific-item-in-specific-instance nonsense doesn't help with that really. If an instance has a good healer/tank item but only "####" dps items and belongs to the long+complex category it's just as tricky to find a group for it (at least in my experience, number of LT/SS/Maze groups was almost non-existant compared to Sammy/School/BfE). The key to get people to run different instances is to make farming the same instances over and over less rewarding, e.g. via cooldown/diminishing returns on currency rewards (IMO the easiest+most effective option).

[Elrantiri]

Sorry, but the specific-item-in-specific-instance nonsense doesn't help with that really. If an instance has a good healer/tank item but only "####" dps items and belongs to the long+complex category it's just as tricky to find a group for it (at least in my experience, number of LT/SS/Maze groups was almost non-existant compared to Sammy/School/BfE). The key to get people to run different instances is to make farming the same instances over and over less rewarding, e.g. via cooldown/diminishing returns on currency rewards (IMO the easiest+most effective option).

Well, wouldn't you just have tank/heal classes trait as DPS then? They'd still be able to make use of a tank/heal item if it drops?

[Nydhogg]

People will always love different things, an option to select whether to be paid out in a jewellery piece or in tokens seems viable to me.

Either acquire:
-a random piece of teal jewellery (with a small chance to get a golden piece instead)
or
-a teal token (with a small chance to get a golden token instead)

Obviously you'd need multiple teal, golden tokens to barter for a piece of teal, respectively golden jewellery.

---

Another thing I thought of is kinda a mixture of both (numbers are just made up without any thought):

Drop a random amount of tokens {1, 2, 3, 4, 5} to keep the randomness, but allow players to barter 10 tokens for a piece of jewellery to maintain choice.
(Like breaking Orthanc sigils for a random amount of sigil fragments to barter for your necklace.)

[Grimdi]

Well, wouldn't you just have tank/heal classes trait as DPS then? They'd still be able to make use of a tank/heal item if it drops?

That might work with the current non-existant balancing and faceroll instances. But for example back in RoF you certainly wouldn't have wanted to run with mostly tanks or healers. Or during RoR just with tanks in Warg Pens.

[Beaniemooch]

Well, wouldn't you just have tank/heal classes trait as DPS then? They'd still be able to make use of a tank/heal item if it drops?

As a minstrel, nobody really wants me as a dps class in an instance - even with the increased dps these days. I could do that when they end up calling for "11/12 need anything". That's also not the role I want to play in a group. If that's all that's left for me I'll just keep picking up ore and wood as my end game in the remote hope that an emerald shard will drop off the dangerous ore and wood nodes. Kind of a sad state for a raid healer IMO.

[Snowlock]

So I just want to remind everyone that the role-based loot system would only be part of the solution, and I still have some work to do before determining exactly how it would function.

In regards to other solutions, we are looking into the issue of receiving the same drop over and over again as one of the potential areas to address, and I am personally toying around with ideas for bartering in general. I do believe in keeping RNG present in some aspects, but I am not completely opposed to the idea of making certain items in our game more readily available. Keep in mind though, that much of development is a process. And whereas I would love to simply be able to implement many of these solutions, it often times takes more than just a single person to do so. I will keep everyone updated with further progress on the issue, however, as it is something I want to address as soon as possible.

Could you please just put loot distribution back to the way it was? We open a chest, there's loot inside for a master looter to distribute? If a challenge is completed successfully, another chest opens and that chest has better loot. Make each instance have its own loot table; this allows us to target specific instances for specific pieces of gear for specific builds. Allow us to switch to alts before chests are opened.

Basically, let kinships manage loot, we don't need Turbine to do it. Just remove all of this complexity that leads ultimately to lots of runs for no reward (which leads to no runs). I would like to run instances again, and organize instance runs as well.

I appreciate your efforts, but KISS principle plz.

[Pepperdyne]

I would definitely welcome this. I am playing mostly in DPS spec and yet the majority of loot I've gotten so far is for tanking cappies. While I do play the other specs, I have multiple tank items and very few DPS or healing items (I'm not even sure there are any healing-specific items at this stage). I almost expect to get DPS gear when tanking. So, gear based on spec is a good partial solution to the RNG nightmare. It at least limits the pool of items to the spec a player actually uses (considering especially that some cappies will never spec for tanking, despite it being very viable now).

I look forward to any other solutions to RNG difficulties, though please don't implement insane medallion costs like OD (the majority of my raiding kin at the time decided not to bother getting the gear because it would take so long to grind the tokens).

-Bel

^^This.

All I get is tank items too on my cpt, no matter what trait line I skill for as a cpt, not once have I seen any dps based or healing based rewards, it's all block/parry/crit defence stuff.

Uthyr- Eldar.

[Elexia]

I have done BB's on my main for over 200 platinum runs. I have received not one gold item, just the same teals over and over. I know other people who have done much less, time-wise, and get their gold right away;, which is great. I don't begrudge anyone getting their gold items. In my kin there are members who have received multiple GOLD items and have had to DISCARD THEM, because either it's something they cannot use, or it's a duplicate.

It's extremely discouraging for those of us who have spent hours and hours without getting something that they would really like to EARN.

Sometimes I feel like giving up, but then I do more the next day with high hopes.

I really like some of the ideas posted in this thread to alleviate this problem. I have no issue with running instances multiple times to earn an item, nor do I have a problem with helping others get what they want. However, it just doesn't seem right that some people already have their golds on their mains and their alts, and others have nothing after spending hours and hours running the BB's. Is there anyone else here who has not had one gold item drop for them after multiple runs for weeks on end?

[Castorix]

Is there anyone else here who has not had one gold item drop for them after multiple runs for weeks on end?

It is just a question of luck, too often now in this game.
I got always the 3 same cyan items for 46 Platinum, then I got my first gold item on 47th (not the one I wanted, but luckier than you...)