LotRO not working on new dungeons, has no plans to merge servers from massively.joystiq.com

[Angadan]

Just because the license is extended till 2017 doesn't mean they will develop the game till 2017. It likely means we are nearing the stage where LotRO is entering the maintenance mode years with minor updates and no significant new development invested.

I suspect that's probably exactly right. Sure feels right.

[Karimi]

I think it's funny/sad that so many people have invested in the game's long-term failure (knowingly or not) than when a Turbine employee states explicitly and directly that "the license has been renewed" that the first response is for "how long". And then when a clear response is that the "agreement runs through 2017", they STILL have to parse words and look for clues that indicate that the game is still game to fail.

Play the game or don't play the game. It will be here through 2017. How hard is that to understand?

[Kandy_Cain325]

Hmm, why would you treat entertainment like an investment? This is strictly pay-as-you-go. You don't check the futures market on a vineyard before you buy a bottle of wine. You don't check the financials of a movie company before you go see Harry Potter IV. You don't quiz the team owner about 2015 plans before you head to the football game. Entertainment is entertainment. Investments are investments. Different animals.

Don't think "investing my time" counts: you play because you want to play. Playing is not work; so you can't count it as sweat equity.

As for "investing my money," you never need invest more than 30 days in advance (monthly subs) to enjoy everything this game has to offer. Committing farther in advnce than that is purely your option.

As for Sapience using squirrelly language, you're right, he has been. For months now. I personally believe the negotiations were ongoing when the word was, "We intend to keep supporting the game for years to come." Now that a deal has been signed, Sapience sought out an opportunity to "be very clear" with an agreement that runs to 2017. Like you, I suspect there are options in the agreement that would allow one or both parties to terminate prior to the 2017 date. But to pound on Sapience' metaphorical desk and demand details is childish. Turbine will tell you and us what it wants to, when it wants to.

In the meantime, you get to make your entertainment choices however you desire. My only recommendation is, don't mistakenly think you're investing...unless you go out and buy some WB stock.

I understand what you're saying, but I definitely believe that entertainment can be investible. For example, I choose to spend money on music downloads at iTunes because I can easily re-download the files if my computer's harddrive explodes. I'm sure Apple doesn't plan on shutting its' doors anytime soon also, so the future of my music collection is basically guaranteed.

Same goes for lotro. Why would you buy a big chunk of TP during a triple bonus points promotion if you know that the game won't even be around long enough to spend all the TP??

[Angadan]

I understand what you're saying, but I definitely believe that entertainment can be investible. For example, I choose to spend money on music downloads at iTunes because I can easily re-download the files if my computer's harddrive explodes. I'm sure Apple doesn't plan on shutting its' doors anytime soon also, so the future of my music collection is basically guaranteed.

Same goes for lotro. Why would you buy a big chunk of TP during a triple bonus points promotion if you know that the game won't even be around long enough to spend all the TP??

Touche, in those examples I think you're exactly right. So in a very narrowly focused way (TP purchases expected to last longer than the next few weeks) you can "invest" in the future availability of LOTRO. I stand corrected on that point.

[kidnova78]

I understand what you're saying, but I definitely believe that entertainment can be investible. For example, I choose to spend money on music downloads at iTunes because I can easily re-download the files if my computer's harddrive explodes. I'm sure Apple doesn't plan on shutting its' doors anytime soon also, so the future of my music collection is basically guaranteed.

Same goes for lotro. Why would you buy a big chunk of TP during a triple bonus points promotion if you know that the game won't even be around long enough to spend all the TP??

TP definitely blurs the line a bit. When you buy TP you are doing so under the assumption that you will be able to use it in the future, whereas the other examples given (movies, wine, sports tickets, etc) are typically consumed immediately. Wine actually can be an investment, but there's a physical exchange that takes place so you don't risk not being able to consume or re-sell the item in the future. I have only purchased TP directly (not included in an expansion or other purchase) once, and that was recently with the triple bonus point sale. I admit that how much I decided to purchase was somewhat influenced by the fact that it was not clear how long I would have to use the points. Yes, I know that TP can be used on other Turbine games, but honestly I'm not interested in those.

[Beschutzer]

Are the developers actually doing anything or are they silently packing their bags to hide all the money they've gathered in their own version of Bag End?

I find it amusing if anyone thinks the devs are seeing any of that 'big time' store money.

They are just hired to work on it. But WB Debo is collect'in!



come to think of it, regardless,...they Better be saving their earnings,..the road goes ever on and on!

[Amariel28]

*sets out a gallon-sized drum of caramel popcorn, puts out a "feel free to join" sign, and gets to munching*

[Kandy_Cain325]

Touche, in those examples I think you're exactly right. So in a very narrowly focused way (TP purchases expected to last longer than the next few weeks) you can "invest" in the future availability of LOTRO. I stand corrected on that point.

I think the narrowness mostly has to do with internet-related entertainment; digital content. Going to the movies and other "live" events are usually one-time experiences that you choose to spend your free time on. It's also relatively safe investment considering how low the cost is, but I guess that depends on what movie you're going to see... if it's a movie made by friedberg and seltzer then it would be wise to invest in a plane ticket to Denver so that you can invest in some green treats before the movie to make it watchable.

[vodou]

Wow! i never expected my opinionated theory to actually generate the clearest response yet from the company. "The license has been renewed" is pretty clear and straightforward. does that mean it was back in 2008? the later response of "we have an agreement that runs through 2017" is also pretty clear. i know some may see this as more vague language but i think for those who still like this game it is good news. he did quote my text about keeping the game running past 2014 so that reveals the intentions from turbine. good news for those who love the world and want to be here for a while longer

the bad news is nothing outside of maybe stringing the game along in maintenance mode past 2014 can be gleaned from that. i still believe the numbers are dwindling and their is just no longer any motivation for them to develop a decent new end game. i suppose if the loyal base and the subbed pvpers stick with it and the store fluff remains a steady revenue stream the game can plod along and finish the story through small update landscapes and a few big battles on the way to the Black Gate.

yes, still a bit pessimistic, but at least it is something for those who want to be here. and a rebound at some point can't be ruled out if in the next few years between 2017 someone high up decides to abandon this current development style for another shot at making LotRO a quality mmo in it's classic mode. prolly not likely but since sapience popped that hope token i am willing to entertain the idea there's a chance of that at least as we now know the game can be up and running till 2017.

[Frieja]

I really want to be as clear as possible on this subject to avoid any further confusion or misunderstanding. The license was renewed.

We have an agreement that runs through 2017.

Thank you for clearing up what has been a sore topic for many, many months.

I wish you would have been clearer before so that we could have avoided all the conspiracy theories that have arisen recently. Please be more forthcoming with information in the future. I very much miss the open communication that Turbine used to have with its customers.

[Angadan]

Years from now (okay, maybe months if the doomsayers prove right), when the autopsy is done on LOTRO from a business perspective, will "they should have invested more in the raiders and PvPers at that point, there in 2011 (or 2012, or 2013)" be one of the 'lessons learned'? Will the decision to cater so directly to the casual and mostly solo/duo gamer be one of the bad calls that shortened the financially lucrative lifetime of the game?

I'm honestly curious about this. Could be it's seen as a significant factor in the game's lifespan. Could be in-game play-style questions are considered entirely moot and it's instead all about customer demographics, spending trendlines and largely game-external considerations.

Like most histories, will probably depend largely on who writes it. But I sure would love to get a peek into the crystal ball at that particular question.

[Schnizzori]

Hmm, just sad news. No instances at all, that's just sad. That was one of the main reasons our whole kinship played and enjoyed the game. I think we just didn't bought enough TP to be recognized as important customers/players.

[Damojo]

I just wanted to drop in and address the concerns surrounding the license, again. We have said as far back as July of 2013, we plan to support LOTRO for many years to come. I really want to be as clear as possible on this subject to avoid any further confusion or misunderstanding. The license was renewed.

To clear up the outstanding points, could you please furnish us the players with:

1. A signed copy of the licence agreement (one per account, originals only)
2. The names, nationality, shoe size, gender and favourite sports idol of all those involved in the signing.
3. Photographic evidence of said signing, with an externally verified date/time stamp.
4. Retina scans and full DNA profiles of all those present.
5. Ideally a full video and audio recording of the proceedings, so we can pick it apart syllable by syllable.

Or you could just tell us unequivocally that it has been renewed. o wait, hang on.......

[Angadan]

hehe, nicely played.

[Kandy_Cain325]

Years from now (okay, maybe months if the doomsayers prove right), when the autopsy is done on LOTRO from a business perspective, will "they should have invested more in the raiders and PvPers at that point, there in 2011 (or 2012, or 2013)" be one of the 'lessons learned'? Will the decision to cater so directly to the casual and mostly solo/duo gamer be one of the bad calls that shortened the financially lucrative lifetime of the game?

I'm honestly curious about this. Could be it's seen as a significant factor in the game's lifespan. Could be in-game play-style questions are considered entirely moot and it's instead all about customer demographics, spending trendlines and largely game-external considerations.

Like most histories, will probably depend largely on who writes it. But I sure would love to get a peek into the crystal ball at that particular question.

Hmm, it would be great to get a crystal ball for this. Well, just to throw in my 2 cents, I think that when lotro has finally shutdown for good most of the players will feel that the reason for lotro's death stemmed from the terrible communication between the devs and the players. There has been too many updates/patches/revisions done to the core gameplay of lotro that went downhill because the devs seem to not care about what the players think. Sapience has stated (I think multiple times on the forums/in-game) that when someone on the forums has a complaint about the game that they are the only one who has that issue. He said that everyone else doesn't have any problems because they are too busy enjoying the game. This way of thinking is very small-minded, and just plain wrong. The players who post on the forums are concerned with the game, they aren't just little whiners who have no value to the devs. Turbine needs to listen to the players more, and stop outright lying to us, and maybe the communication void will begin to improve to the point where the players and devs can work better together in creating a game that is more enjoyable for everyone.

BTW, I know there's a "player council," but obviously with the way things are going it isn't helping too much. The player council might actually be of some use had it been created about 5 years ago.

[Beschutzer]

I dunno,..not fo' nuth'in but taking a break and focusing on 'existing' systems/bugs ,..

shoring up, as it were,..


sounds great. I mean,..how many times do we read "stop making new things and fix existing things!"

Well,..we gett'in it.

Cheers




may just give me a chance to cap out and finish my deeds

[CosaNostraPizza]

Hmm, it would be great to get a crystal ball for this. Well, just to throw in my 2 cents, I think that when lotro has finally shutdown for good most of the players will feel that the reason for lotro's death stemmed from the terrible communication between the devs and the players. There has been too many updates/patches/revisions done to the core gameplay of lotro that went downhill because the devs seem to not care about what the players think. Sapience has stated (I think multiple times on the forums/in-game) that when someone on the forums has a complaint about the game that they are the only one who has that issue. He said that everyone else doesn't have any problems because they are too busy enjoying the game. This way of thinking is very small-minded, and just plain wrong. The players who post on the forums are concerned with the game, they aren't just little whiners who have no value to the devs. Turbine needs to listen to the players more, and stop outright lying to us, and maybe the communication void will begin to improve to the point where the players and devs can work better together in creating a game that is more enjoyable for everyone.

BTW, I know there's a "player council," but obviously with the way things are going it isn't helping too much. The player council might actually be of some use had it been created about 5 years ago.

its an ideology that i made my mind up and i cant go back. That the future will be better than tomorrow no matter what choices i make.


That sums up turbine.

[Fatty_Lumpkin]

So even though Sapience confirmed that the license has been renewed. We are still discussing whether it's renewed. Good Grief!

Can we please stop discussing the license? The issue of the license or lack there of, has derailed too many threads as it is. Let this particular beasty alone.

Instead, talk about the impact of LOTRO not wanting to invest in raiding, group content and kinships.

[Angadan]

Other than post 60, which was a 'thanks' to Sapience, and 63, which was a joke, we stopped talking about the license a full page ago. Now we've been talking about the future prospects of the game. Do try to keep up, please.

[Kandy_Cain325]

Instead, talk about the impact of LOTRO not wanting to invest in raiding, group content and kinships.

well I hope you are aware that the SOG means Solo and Occasional Grouping. If you knew that, then I don't know what else you would expect in a SOGMMORPG...

[Fatty_Lumpkin]

Other than post 60, which was a 'thanks' to Sapience, and 63, which was a joke, we stopped talking about the license a full page ago. Now we've been talking about the future prospects of the game Try to keep up, please.

My bad!! It is hard to keep up. So much drama!!

[Angadan]

well I hope you are aware that the SOG means Solo and Occasional Grouping. If you knew that, then I don't know what else you would expect in a SOGMMORPG...

Wow, first time I've seen that acronym. And certainly never before saw it applied to LOTRO. Is the game being advertised that way somewhere? As an 'SOGMMORPG'?

[Kandy_Cain325]

Wow, first time I've seen that acronym. And certainly never before saw it applied to LOTRO. Is the game being advertised that way somewhere? As an 'SOGMMORPG'?

I first discovered it on some random MMO's official forums. I don't think it's ever been advertised as such by an official distributer though.

[cirkonia]

We have an agreement that runs through 2017.

Why was this so difficult to say? There were a lot the fear the the agreement ends 2014...you could have taken a lot of pressure from the ones that
still love this game - with such a simple sentence, a lot earliert...

[Angadan]

Why was this so difficult to say? There were a lot the fear the the agreement ends 2014...you could have taken a lot of pressure from the ones that
still love this game - with such a simple sentence, a lot earliert...

...unless there was no agreement 'a lot earlier'.
I personally suspect the new agreement is less than a month old.


EDIT: p.s. - Dangit, you got us talking about the license again. Fatty Lumpkin is going to be so mad at us.