LotRO not working on new dungeons, has no plans to merge servers from massively.joystiq.com

[Aineas.]

Sorry, that is a very very very patronizing and rude way to speak to all those if us that have been concerned over the past year.

Congratulations on getting conformation from your bosses to announce it, but to imply this has always been the case and people have been worried for nothing is simply wrong

Time and time again numerous people have made posts asking for simple conformation like you have just given, time and time again you were very very vague.

I personally asked numerous times for you to say those simple words "The license has been renewed" rather than implying you would be working on Lotro for many years to come, as they are very very different things.

For example, a quick search of my posts brings up this one



So while I'm very very glad you have the license, to imply this was always the case and we've been complaining for nothing, shows the contempt you seem to show those of us that have real concerns with this game.

Sapience/turbine have Always said that they PLAN to support lotro for many more years. Keyword what everyone picked up on is "plan", I make many many plans, but not all happen. So thats not a guarantee, it's just something to say and lets be honest, you think they'd say if they didn't wanted that? Dear players, we are not planning to support lotro anymore.... that'll never happen with an expansion coming up they need to sell. Having said that, I do agree with your sentiment, but negotiations just take time and is a good time to practice "patience". Now the word is out it's renewed... can we move on? :P I find it very worrying tbh that the only thing they've planned is some maintanance stuff for the coming year. Do they really make enough money to take a break from expansions and be able to support just some makeovers for a year? How do they plan to keep all the players inside the game? Money is only earned if players play, not when they are gone. Since BB's are the only thing new and already boring, we only have old stuff to do, which makes the boredom-level increase even quicker then before. So now they plan to have us stay for 2 years without new content? mm, worries me tbh.

[Smehcoons]

Firstly - Its good to know now that no new raids/instances are being made for this game. Keeping us in the dark for as long as Turbine have about this subject meant many people have hung around needlessly already.

Secondly - What was the point of the traits tree change? My understanding was that it was meant to allow dev's to develop better, more interesting and challenging content? Did HD just not sell well? Was there a mass exodus due to the changes to classes? Was no new content always the plan? It seems bizarre to make such huge changes to the classes, make everyone gods, and then not develop content designed to make use of all the changes. I was really looking forward to new content that would make use of some of the more interesting trait lines.

I'm usually the first to defend this game, but the massive balance issues, the lag, the bugs, and now no new content has had me join the haters. Sad to say, but I'm not sure of the value when nothing new (that I care for) is being developed. This likely means I'll be cancelling my subs (plural).

Thirdly - bad news about the license renewal. I love LOTR, but I would rather see the IP go to another dev so we may eventually see Mordor.

[Rainothon]

Sorry, that is a very very very patronizing and rude way to speak to all those if us that have been concerned over the past year.

Congratulations on getting conformation from your bosses to announce it, but to imply this has always been the case and people have been worried for nothing is simply wrong

Time and time again numerous people have made posts asking for simple conformation like you have just given, time and time again you were very very vague.

I personally asked numerous times for you to say those simple words "The license has been renewed" rather than implying you would be working on Lotro for many years to come, as they are very very different things.

For example, a quick search of my posts brings up this one



So while I'm very very glad you have the license, to imply this was always the case and we've been complaining for nothing, shows the contempt you seem to show those of us that have real concerns with this game.

You might be taking this a tad too personal?

Still. I understand you. I too have worried about the license renewal in the past. This to me is very, very welcome news. Why it's buried in a thread like this is hard to understand for me.

News this good for some of us shouldn't be in a comment on another subject, it should be a forum headline. And it should go paired with apologies to all of us who have been worrying over the license renewal in the past, business matters required us to wait with this announcement until now. Even if we were wrong to worry, and Sapience tried all he was allowed to stop us from worrying, we did worry - some more than others.

It's really not about the apologies, it's about the acknowledgement that loyal customers can fret over something as the precioussss IP license even if they shouldn't, and that corporate communication policies prevented the company from totally, completely reassuring their loyal customers for some time. It's okay to say that unnecesairy concerns are not something you want your customers to experience, trust me.

[Mistermorriss]

I think it's rather clear and direct. I can't think of a more direct way to say the license was renewed than to say the license was renewed.

Yeah, but, was the license RENEWED?

[Mistermorriss]

Also, using the word contempt is a massive over-statement, completely out of proportion, and if I was Sapience, I'd be offended. You should apologise and choose your words more carefully.

[xKINGMOBx]

If I were a Turbine dev, I would dread talking to so very many of you who post in these forums. Too much whine and aggression, and it gets so focused every time Sapience posts, like a school of piranha finding the next meal. I pity your wives for what they put up with. I pity your kids for your Stalinesque tactics. It's not normal behaviour, at least not in my country, and some of you should feel unabashedly ashamed of yourselves. Jesus weeps!

[JRAD65]

Sorry, that is a very very very patronizing and rude way to speak to all those if us that have been concerned over the past year.

Congratulations on getting conformation from your bosses to announce it, but to imply this has always been the case and people have been worried for nothing is simply wrong

Time and time again numerous people have made posts asking for simple conformation like you have just given, time and time again you were very very vague.

I personally asked numerous times for you to say those simple words "The license has been renewed" rather than implying you would be working on Lotro for many years to come, as they are very very different things.

For example, a quick search of my posts brings up this one



So while I'm very very glad you have the license, to imply this was always the case and we've been complaining for nothing, shows the contempt you seem to show those of us that have real concerns with this game.

Absolutely spot on! Very poor communication and it does border on contempt.

Sapience needs to apologize.

Actually this is the FIRST time I've seen Sapience utter those words, in the innumerable times this has come up he's never said it to my knowledge.

Nor this:
Fact is as far as I see it Turbine have never actually posted a PR bit reporting this, in spite of the fact they know damned well that umpteen thousands of their customers have been concerned about this for a very long time.

If I'm wrong I'd be happy to read the Press Release which Turbine did publish Sapience, should you care to post a link to it.

... and you would be right. No press release. Nothing from the Exec Producer... Nothing in these threads at all.

Also, using the word contempt is a massive over-statement, completely out of proportion, and if I was Sapience, I'd be offended. You should apologise and choose your words more carefully.

Oh please, Turbine are masters of non communication. I want to know the money I have invested into this game is worthwhile. I don't want silly double speak from a community manager. He needs to ask permission from his employers to create a thread or press release to announce the extension... pronto!

I would have thought that would be a positive thing... Good press and all that!

Maybe he will mention it again in the Hobbit run he is doing. That must be the new official communication channel.

J-Rad

[Bragard]

If I were a Turbine dev, I would dread talking to so very many of you who post in these forums. Too much whine and aggression, and it gets so focused every time Sapience posts, like a school of piranha finding the next meal. I pity your wives for what they put up with. I pity your kids for your Stalinesque tactics. It's not normal behaviour, at least not in my country, and some of you should feel unabashedly ashamed of yourselves. Jesus weeps!

i have to agree, their is a small core of people making these forums a very unpleasant experience.

[rosey21]

Yeah, but, was the license RENEWED?

HUGE face palm....

[rosey21]

Absolutely spot on! Very poor communication and it does border on contempt.

Sapience needs to apologize.

ROFL.... drama drama drama

ba boom boom

[Glumposneak]

Also, using the word contempt is a massive over-statement, completely out of proportion, and if I was Sapience, I'd be offended. You should apologise and choose your words more carefully.

If I were a Turbine dev, I would dread talking to so very many of you who post in these forums. Too much whine and aggression, and it gets so focused every time Sapience posts, like a school of piranha finding the next meal. I pity your wives for what they put up with. I pity your kids for your Stalinesque tactics. It's not normal behaviour, at least not in my country, and some of you should feel unabashedly ashamed of yourselves. Jesus weeps!

I think JRAD65 sums up my feelings very well in his post a few posts above this one.

What I will say is respect is a two way thing. I have often been offended by the way I and others have been spoken to in this forum, especially in the recent beta.

He could have simply have said "I just wanted to drop in and address the concerns surrounding the license, The license was renewed"

He didn't have to put the bit about telling us that in July 2013 when the fact is, he didn't tell us that then.

When since the producers letter, the game looks to me (and others) like it's been put into maintenance mode with no new expansion, no new instances etc, he COULD have shut the rumor mills up completely months ago by stating the License had been renewed, but he didn't.

I fully understand why he didn't say it until now, he cant unless either it had been renewed, or his bossed gave him permission to confirm it, but for him to imply he said that last July and word his post in the way he does, does in my opinion show contempt for those of us that were very worried about the game.

WB keeping the license and WB investing properly in Lotro are two separate things. I hope they start doing so properly ASAP.

[Glumposneak]

i have to agree, their is a small core of people making these forums a very unpleasant experience.

Again, had he worded the license announcement in a more professional way, most of this thread talking about it, wouldn't be taking place. He chose to imply what he's implied, not us.

How something is worded makes a huge difference and the community manager should have done a better job, and it shouldn't be against the rules for people to say that either.

Instead of saying

"I just wanted to drop in and address the concerns surrounding the license, again. We have said as far back as July of 2013, we plan to support LOTRO for many years to come. I really want to be as clear as possible on this subject to avoid any further confusion or misunderstanding. The license was renewed."

He could have if he wanted to refer to his comments , said something along the lines of

"I just wanted to drop in and address the concerns surrounding the license, We said as far back as July of 2013, we plan to support LOTRO for many years to come, and I can now confirm the license has been renewed"

Little differences, but what he actually posted appears underhand, a slight alteration and it says something completely different.

[kidnova78]

Actually this is the FIRST time I've seen Sapience utter those words, in the innumerable times this has come up he's never said it to my knowledge.

Nor this:



Fact is as far as I see it Turbine have never actually posted a PR bit reporting this, in spite of the fact they know damned well that umpteen thousands of their customers have been concerned about this for a very long time.

If I'm wrong I'd be happy to read the Press Release which Turbine did publish Sapience, should you care to post a link to it.

He never definitively confirmed that the license had been renewed until yesterday, however Turbine has had an agreement through 2017 since the initial renewal in 2008. That agreement contains options (stress on the s) to renew until 2017. So, saying that the license has been renewed and that the agreement runs through 2017 does not mean that the license has been renewed through 2017. More likely it's an annual renewal.

[Darlgon]

We have an agreement that runs through 2017.

I am trying to understand why this is news. There was a huge announcement on the old website forums when this deal was inked with the Tolkien family. I think it was in 2012.

Some conspiracy theorist on a gaming website started a rumor and it has stuck since.

[kidnova78]

It was made very clear many years ago by Sapience or some other 'blue' of the time that the licence was until 2014 with an option to extend till 2017, nothing about annual renewal there.

Also, read THIS which says the same thing about 2014:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/02...-lotr-license/

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. See the bolded word below.

WESTWOOD, MA – February 20, 2008 – Turbine, Inc. announced today that in the wake of the global success of The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™, named the 2007 PC Game of the Year*, it has reached an agreement with Tolkien Enterprises to extend it’s license to develop Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Games (MMORPG) based on The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien to 2014 with additional options to extend the rights until 2017.

“We’re thrilled with the global success of The Lord of the Rings Online since its launch in 2007,” said Jim Crowley, president and CEO of Turbine, Inc. “With the recent announcement of what are sure to be two blockbuster films based on The Hobbit and a sequel, we expect the success of the license and our relationship with Tolkien Enterprises to grow for years to come.”

“We have had a wonderful working relationship with Turbine over the past several years,” said Albert M. Bendich, Executive Vice President of The Saul Zaentz Company, and its merchandising division Tolkien Enterprises. “We look forward to our continuing success with Turbine as it pushes the envelope for compelling online entertainment and gameplay to bring the compelling characters of Middle-earth to life for Tolkien fans around the world.”

The Lord of the Rings Online delivers an interactive experience brimming with life and filled with the familiar people, places and monsters from the most beloved fantasy adventure of all time. From the quaint surroundings of the Shire to Angmar, the vile kingdom of the Witch-king, players will experience the world of Middle-earth as never before. The Lord of the Rings Online is available in North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. For more information, please visit www.lotro.com.

http://www.gamefront.com/turbine-to-...possibly-2017/

[Kerin_Eldar]

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. See the bolded word below.

We have an agreement that runs through 2017.

Sapience couldn't say that if they're only renewed till 2015, say.

[kidnova78]

Sapience couldn't say that if they're only renewed till 2015, say.

If you ever dealt with lawyers and PR groups you would know that the specific words used are very important. Nowhere did he say "the license was renewed through 2017". He said in one statement that "the license was renewed", and in a separate statement, "we have an agreement that runs through 2017". You are connecting the two mutually exclusive statements. Again, the agreement they executed in 2008 already ran through 2017.

[Bragard]

Again, had he worded the license announcement in a more professional way, most of this thread talking about it, wouldn't be taking place. He chose to imply what he's implied, not us.

How something is worded makes a huge difference and the community manager should have done a better job, and it shouldn't be against the rules for people to say that either.

Instead of saying

"I just wanted to drop in and address the concerns surrounding the license, again. We have said as far back as July of 2013, we plan to support LOTRO for many years to come. I really want to be as clear as possible on this subject to avoid any further confusion or misunderstanding. The license was renewed."

He could have if he wanted to refer to his comments , said something along the lines of

"I just wanted to drop in and address the concerns surrounding the license, We said as far back as July of 2013, we plan to support LOTRO for many years to come, and I can now confirm the license has been renewed"

Little differences, but what he actually posted appears underhand, a slight alteration and it says something completely different.

Be honest i think you and a few others are more then disappointed the licence was renewed, though some of us who can reason, figured it out already, still no worry's a few can now move on to scare mongering about the lawsuits and what nots because it what they do best, and they should not stop saying the game will end, becasue one day(be in 3 years or 50) they will be right and can glory in telling all " i told you so"

[Glumposneak]

Be honest i think you and a few others are more then disappointed the licence was renewed, though some of us who can reason, figured it out already, still no worry's a few can now move on to scare mongering about the lawsuits and what nots because it what they do best, and they should not stop saying the game will end, becasue one day(be in 3 years or 50) they will be right and can glory in telling all " i told you so"

Nope you are wrong and if I was another sort of person I would report your post for what you are implying.

Time and time again when I have said what I fear, I have stressed that nothing would please me better than to be proven wrong and I stand by that.

I have never ever said Turbine wouldn't get their license in-fact I have always said they probably would.

Please don't put untrue words into my mouth and try to paint me as someone I am not.

I have a lifetime membership and nothing would please me more than to see my journey to its conclusion.

When people have to start using personal attacks, it's time for me to bow out

[CaerArianrhod]

Why do people care so much about the damn licence, yes okay it is very important... SO WHAT?! If the game is good, sells well and makes money the licence will always be continued. I think it is much more likely that the game would be discontinued because of lack of profit/ lack of players. A successful game will not just suddenly end tomorrow abruptly because it has no license, yet there is still a demand for it. Stop worrying about the damn license and worry about if turbine is actually going to continue developing the game or if they might just sideline it for a newer project!

It is very understandable why players are asking about the licence.
First of all, withouth the licence: no game regardless how successfull the game is or would/could be.
Second: Turbine's communication in the last years to the playerbase provide a lot of place for improvement. Things have been said just to negate them weeks later and things have been promised but never came true.
To beeing sceptical is sadly a "must be" for a LOTRO-Player.

We do not know what the renewed licence includes and Turbine will never tell us somthing about it. We just can assume, it allows turbine to develop the game in the same manner as hitherto.

On the other side, you right, it is not depending on the licence if a bad game "would be discontinued because of lack of profit/ lack of player". But that's not our problem, that's the problem of Turbine, who produced the first «living longtime beta test» (aka Helms Deep) in the history of the MMOs.

Regards
CA

[frickinmuck]

...Sigh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron...:_Fallen_Kings

A major expansion pack for Asheron's Call 2 titled Asheron's Call 2: Legions was announced in October 2004 and was released on May 4, 2005
Asheron's Call 2: Fallen Kings is a fantasy MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game) for Microsoft Windows-based PCs which was released on November 22, 2002 and shut down on December 30, 2005

Gee willikers guess who made that game?

...They can shut LOTRO down at anytime, I'm not saying it will be...I don't know and neither do you.

Except I was not talking about whether or not the game might be shut down. ANY game can shut down at ANY time for ANY reason. I was specifically talking about the licensing issues, and people's repeated claims and speculations that Turbine secretly knows LotRO is in its last days. It's clear they have no impending plans to shut things down. Could they still do so? Hell yeah, of course they could. But that is absolutely nothing new, and nothing unusual.

Despite what they might think, the people who continue to try to cast gloom and doubt on LotRO's future do NOT have the best interests of the game or of the community at heart. Rumours and fear-mongering have a resoundingly negative, destructive effect. If we were to humour the rumour mongers, let's just pretend for a second that they are correct and the game is in its dying days. The very WORST thing that anyone could do in that situation is to doom and gloom all over the game and all over the community. If the game was really struggling that badly, the best thing that could be done is to try to rally the community and rally support, or at the very least, try to make the most of the game and the time DO have before it's taken away for good. This comes down to a basic attitude problem among a certain contingent here in the forums, in GLFF and on certain fansites. I've said this before but I really wish they'd just get lost for good if they really hate the game that much, and if they really hate Turbine that much.

But they enjoy the drama too much, and will be here till the bitter end.

You know what, I love your posts. I especially love your wish lists in the Official Housing Thread, a waste of time mind you, (my crystal ball says we will not get housing this year, that batman game they are working on is badly sucking Turbines resources), however I don't read licence agreements for a living, but know businesses will sell stuff right up to the very last second they keep their doors open. This game could shut tomorrow with no announcement, and with the very poor communications Turbine has ...

Could it have hurt the Community Manager to announce Great News, the licence was renewed! NO!

What about it appearing in the grand Executive Producers Letter, this piece of amazing news, the license was renewed. Could have been announced there, but was it... NO!

Very low marks to Kate Piaz, Sapience and Turbine!

J_Rad

I've no doubt the game will be milked for every possible penny until the last second before it shuts down, be that tomorrow or 5 years from now. I want to support the game and I've been spending more on it over the past year or so than I have in a long time. It's in the best interest of anyone who wants to see the game continue, to do the same. That is one of the big reasons I don't respect the whole "I'm holding onto my money until I see what happens" attitude. Guess what, if you hold onto your money, "what happens" is entirely predictable.

I do agree, the communications around the license have been less than stellar. I wish Turbine was doing a better job of communications overall. They seem to have unwittingly allowed negativity and fear to take hold, and they seem paralysed and unable to take control of their own messaging. Messaging that is essential to maintaining morale among the player base. That is disappointing, but speaks more to lack of expertise rather than a conspiracy, a disregard or a lack of sincere respect for the community. As I always like to say, never put down to nefariousness what can be adequately explained by incompetence.

At the same time, they have clearly been improving in this area, and working to try to engage with the community more. I think those efforts would be greatly assisted by more support and more positivity from the player base. When someone is trying to change, it can't truly happen unless we let them change, and forgive them for their past errors.

Sorry, that is a very very very patronizing and rude way to speak to all those if us that have been concerned over the past year.

I've said this before, but there is a charitable and an uncharitable way to read anyone's words. When we dislike someone we tend to read everything they say as if it is spoken in a venomous, hateful tone, and when we like someone we tend to read everything they say as if it is spoken in a friendly, casual tone. And of course there are shades of grey in between. I've noticed on the forums that Sapience is constantly attacked for every little comment he makes, no matter how innocuous. It's something that anyone who manages a large online community will face from time to time, because when someone is in a position of perceived authority they tend to be viewed with the most critical eye, deserved or not.

If you re-read Sapience's comment, there is nothing rude about it. The tone you think is there actually comes from your reading of it, not from the actual words.

If I were a Turbine dev, I would dread talking to so very many of you who post in these forums. Too much whine and aggression, and it gets so focused every time Sapience posts, like a school of piranha finding the next meal. I pity your wives for what they put up with. I pity your kids for your Stalinesque tactics. It's not normal behaviour, at least not in my country, and some of you should feel unabashedly ashamed of yourselves. Jesus weeps!

Yep, I agree. People wonder why we don't get more direct dev interaction in the forums. Here's your answer: because you guys make it extremely unappealing for them to engage with the community. It doesn't matter whether you think it is "their job" or not. Everyone is human, and if a human can avoid being pilloried online by a group of mean and angry people, they will do so. It's really that simple.

[Darlgon]

What I will say is respect is a two way thing. I have often been offended by the way I and others have been spoken to in this forum, especially in the recent beta.

Know what? In a weird way, I would rather be spoken to in a manner some consider rude than to be ignored or not spoken to at all. At least, then I would know where I stood with the party, instead of having to guess.

[Martigan]

Guys we now have a licence ! its derailing every thread.

We can confound the Licence issue with detail until the cows come home. Maybe people could continue to pvp each other on that issue in one of the various Licence threads.

What we don't have are any apparent instances or raids being developed, at least for 2014.

We also have no clear and explicit roadmap beyond 2014 from Turbine.

At least some players, me included, can then make informed decisions regarding where to put their precious game time.

thanks

[infinitewhimsy]

I genuinely don't understand this paranoia around the license. Lotro vanishing b/c Turbine couldn't be bothered renewing the rights to their material should strike anyone as pretty absurd, especially when their parent company is WB.

However, it is profoundly MORE absurd given you're so focused on the longevity of an empty-game...no new instances? Heh. Lotro is so utterly devoid of endgame content or challenge or accomplishment that this panicked interest in its continuance is laughable. Are you so attached to all this nothing?

[Bel-Astarte]

No, I wouldn't be attached to it.

They have said this is going to be a year of refining and improvement-not new content. If you do not like that idea, I can respect that, but it's not precisely been a secret.

For my part, I consider there to be a lot of enjoyment in this game before we get to endgame, and my kin is healthily bringing in new members who are really continuing to enjoy the game.

We are not a raiding focused kin, but we do group and will be doing the endgame raid starting the end of this month.

If you are not enjoying the game, take a break. Check back in later to see if the joy has returned. Do not continue making yourself (and others) crazy.