Turbine hit with another round of layoffs.

[Beleg]

In all seriousness, I wish the best for those who lost their jobs. With all its problems, this is still my favorite game - and I've been playing since beta. It's amazing any game could hold my interest that long.

[Whart]

My own job is on the chopping block in March, and it's a terrifying experience. My heart goes out to all affected, and I wish you all a soft landing.

This makes me fear even more for the future of the game, but that isn't anywhere nearly as important as the concerns of those who no longer have a job. I can only hope that the future brings bigger and better things for all of us, in spite of the current challenges.

[Maxal]

Sorry to hear that folks were let go. I hope you all find good rewarding jobs in the near future.

Now to the business side. This is the way corporations works now. They gear up for something new, then they let folks go to improve profits, etc. Sometimes it does not matter how well your company is doing. If the corporate giant, in this case WB, is having a bad year and your company, in this case Turbine, is doing very well it just does not matter. A corpration will say, we have to reduce staff by 7% across the board. Of course that means every company in the corporation except for the top management.

This happened to me while in management of a large company. In one year we went from $186 million in sales (~$18 million profit) to $224 million in sales (~$36 million profit). yet during that 12 month period we had 4 rounds of layoffs. Why? Because the parent corporation was losing money like crazy and the stock was dropping like a stone in a bottomless lake. It had nothing to do with how well we did and the fact that the last 3 rounds of layoffs more than likely resulted in us providing less sales growth and profits to the corporation.

So making sweeping satements that it has to do with the game being broken or abondonded is nothing more than an uninformed roumor. The statement could be completely true or completely false. As has been stated Turbine have made some high profile hires. It can just be a basic reorganization of the staff or a choice made by WB alone or ???????

What does all this really mean? Anything you wish it to mean.

For me I will just play the game until they do finally shut it down or bring out a LotRO II.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

The wording of the WB press release makes you wonder which parts of Turbine are the "growth areas" and which are the bill-payers.

On the face of things, you'd think IC is a "growth area," since it's the new project and (ostensibly) the reason WB went out and bought Turbine in the first place (for their expertise with online games). It would also make sense that WB see MOBAs as the "current and coming marketplace" vice MMOs (which are so 1995-2012, zomg!). On the other hand, IC has reportedly been badly delayed and might have become, in WB management's eyes, an albotross to be discarded.

If the first possibility is true, parts of the LOTRO, DDO, and AC teams, as well as the staff shared across the games, might be the bill payers.

If the latter is true, the team formed to push IC out the door might be the ones who were laid off.

The answer directly affects the path ahead for LOTRO, of course. I'd love to know which of these (or what third possibility) it is. Maybe at some point at Turbine staffer might be allowed to come give us an update on the projected future of LOTRO development, esp. relative to what we thought we knew from the Dec 2013 Producter's Letter.

p.s. Just saw that my last thought echoes the sentiments of two previous posters. Jinx!

Considering your two scenarios, I would way that the second would be an absolute disaster for Turbine and it's credibility would be shot to pieces.

I've got a suspicion that the lay-offs were to allow the repositioning of money into the IC project to get it delivered. That IC has been delayed kind of supports this theory as more money would be needed in lieu of any income. Perhaps WB are not willing to invest any more in Turbine and have asked them to live within their overall budget - so in that case as IC is the new property based with a game genre that is on the up, then one could see how WB would want to see IC finished and rolled out at the expense of the development plans for the other games.

But who knows. Unless one's a fly on the wall at Turbine's weekly finance meetings then all the above is just a hunch.

[Bobby_Crocker]

I've been highly critical of the game lately, but wanted to say that the layoff news sucks. As much as I dislike the direction the game has been going I'm willing to bet the people let go, even if they were the ones who implemented those decisions, weren't the ones who made them. The person(s) who never updated the crafting icons most likely wasn't the one who decided to hold off on updating it, for example.

Layoffs suck, period end. Best of luck to all affected.

[Angadan]

Considering your two scenarios, I would way that the second would be an absolute disaster for Turbine and it's credibility would be shot to pieces.

I've got a suspicion that the lay-offs were to allow the repositioning of money into the IC project to get it delivered. That IC has been delayed kind of supports this theory as more money would be needed in lieu of any income. Perhaps WB are not willing to invest any more in Turbine and have asked them to live within their overall budget - so in that case as IC is the new property based with a game genre that is on the up, then one could see how WB would want to see IC finished and rolled out at the expense of the development plans for the other games.

But who knows. Unless one's a fly on the wall at Turbine's weekly finance meetings then all the above is just a hunch.

Yeah, everything you said makes sense to me. You're probably right. Just wish we could get a Turbine team member to let us know a little bit of what's going on behind the curtains, and what we should expect in future.

[Elragar]

What terrible news, my heart goes out to those affected by this and I thank them for their past efforts in the game and wish them well for the future.

A key question for the game is whether these changes were partially/fully factored into the plans for 2014 or not? If the later then as they say "Houston.... we have a problem"

I worry about this phrase from the suit:
"but it's crucial that Turbine is structured in a way that reflects the current and coming marketplace" that kind of phrase is a good indication they are trying to change the focus of the company which could imply a move away from mmorpg.

It's been said before but from WBs perspective this game has always had a major problem . A distasteful group of hangers-on called lifetime members whose sub money was spent long ago by previous companies but get content paid for by WB for free - they would always be on dodgy ground making LOTRO 2 from within Turbine but by one of their other game subsids? Less of a problem...

[Yula_the_Mighty]

There is practically no chance that you're right on this point. The timing is way too far off. Remember, there was a PREVIOUS round of staff cuts, back in October of last year.

These cuts were not last year. See:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lay.../1100-6398897/
for more information. They were done in October, 2012 not long after Riders of Rohan went live.

My personal opinion. Kate Paiz made her plan for 2014 including no expansion knowing the layoffs were coming.

I do not know what kind of lead time Warner Brothers and Turbine between deciding a lay off is coming. The actual layoff occurring. The companies that I have worked for it is often two months unless they are doing something like shut down an entire site and all or most of the employees are losing their jobs.

[Angadan]

These cuts were not last year. See:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lay.../1100-6398897/
for more information. They were done in October, 2012 not long after Riders of Rohan went live.

Oops, you're right! Which means the timing of NEITHER round of layoffs fits as the impetus for the no-expac-in-2014 decision.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Post removed due to inability of the person at the keyboard to read basic English...!

[ShireDweller]

I read that as something a WB exec would think of lifetimers, not what the poster thinks - he did say "from WB's perspective".

[Rashy]

everything is fine and fluffy

(?)

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I read that as something a WB exec would think of lifetimers, not what the poster thinks - he did say "from WB's perspective".

I did not read it that way but thanks for the spot - I've edited my post above.

[Laire]

"A distasteful group of hangers-on"???? Thank you for attacking that of the lotro community that you probably know very little about. You have no idea how much additional money lifetimers spend via the store, expac purchases and the running of 2nd accounts. For all you know, lifetimers could be one of the game's biggest group of spenders as a result of their investment and long-term attachment to the game.

Edit - of course if you were using that phrase as someone from WB might say it rather than your own point of view then fair enough, I'll retract the above.

Yea, I am pretty sure he was saying that as 'from WBs perspective' from his sentence just before that statement

[002]

"A distasteful group of hangers-on"???? Thank you for attacking that of the lotro community that you probably know very little about. You have no idea how much additional money lifetimers spend via the store, expac purchases and the running of 2nd accounts. For all you know, lifetimers could be one of the game's biggest group of spenders as a result of their investment and long-term attachment to the game.

I think he meant that's what WB's attitude is not his own. I actually agree with him. As a lifer with 4 accounts I can imagine that that sticks in WB's craw and I bet they do in fact see us as leeches. I work for a large corporation in managment and I know exactly how the upper echelon think and that is exactly it.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I think he meant that's what WB's attitude is not his own. I actually agree with him. As a lifer with 4 accounts I can imagine that that sticks in WB's craw and I bet they do in fact see us as leeches. I work for a large corporation in managment and I know exactly how the upper echelon think and that is exactly it.

Yes thanks for spotting that. My ability to read a sentence and take in it's full meaning is not what it was!

[Yula_the_Mighty]

Oops, you're right! Which means the timing of NEITHER round of layoffs fits as the impetus for the no-expac-in-2014 decision.

The current layoff does fit the no expansion explanation.

It is not possible sitting outside and looking in to figure out which is the chicken (no expansion or staff reduction) and which is the egg (no expansion or staff reduction). It could be:

1) We are not going to do an expansion in 2014. Lets get rid of some of the people that we would use to create the expansion.

2) We have to get rid of people. The reduced staff level is not enough to support an expansion.

[anthonyx]

I wonder if it is like many other game development. When a team finishes a part of what is needed they are then let go. It would seem that LOTRO is bare bone as it is. Maybe those working on IC completed the part of their project and were no longer needed. I recall reading countless AAA games where this process happened. Either way it sucks to be in that situation. I hope those affected can find employment soon!

[Elragar]

"A distasteful group of hangers-on"???? Thank you for attacking that of the lotro community that you probably know very little about. You have no idea how much additional money lifetimers spend via the store, expac purchases and the running of 2nd accounts. For all you know, lifetimers could be one of the game's biggest group of spenders as a result of their investment and long-term attachment to the game.

Edit - of course if you were using that phrase as someone from WB might say it rather than your own point of view then fair enough, I'll retract the above.

in fact I am myself one of those "distasteful group of hangers-on" and have been so since codemasters launch...

[BangoTwinkletoes]

in fact I am myself one of those "distasteful group of hangers-on" and have been so since codemasters launch...

You'll have seen my edit.

[Elragar]

You'll have seen my edit.

indeed, implied apology accepted! I can see how it might be inflammatory if you missed the "from WBs perspective" bit

[Raesharra]

I'm sorry for all the folks that were cut. My heart goes out to you. To those left behind, I understand your pain, and wish you well and healing.

To those of you that have never lived through a layoff or RIF, you don't know how lucky you are. My company has had several since it was bought by another, larger entity. It's sad both for those that lose there jobs and those left behind. Last RIF my cube-mate was cut, and I still miss her every day. I still wonder why her and not me. When I joined my current group there were over 20 people in it. Now there are 8, including myself. That's been over half in a little over 4 years. The poster that commented about big business budgets is correct. The finance people at the top get to make the decisions, it seems, and those of us working to make product, test product, or support those that do those activities get to suffer the consequences of needing to shave 20% off the budget, 25% to meet that stretch goal so someone looks good in the eyes of the shareholders. Typically my management tries very hard to get the numbers down through attrition, if they can manage it, and volunteers for the layoffs when they can't. And the epic bonus is even after the layoff, people immediately leave because they feel betrayed by the company, insecure in their continued employment, or just found something better. The turbulence lasts for weeks. It is painful for everyone, those let go, and those left behind.

I don't know the specifics of the gaming industry. I know where I work, layoffs take 6 months to clear legal barriers (have to make sure you aren't going to get sued for laying off only men, women, people over 50, people under 50, etc). Fortunately our rumor mill is excellent and the employees generally know what's going on and where the layoffs will occur before they happen. I can only hope Turbine's grapevine was as good and the folks that were released today were already working on finding something else.

Best of luck to all of you. I hope whether you were let go or stayed behind, you find peace with what happened.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

indeed, implied apology accepted! I can see how it might be inflammatory if you missed the "from WBs perspective" bit

Yes sorry about posting that. Time to get some shut eye before I get something else all round the twist!

[Angadan]

The current layoff does fit the no expansion explanation.

No, not with a two-month gap. Whether chicken or egg. Too long a period in between. Might have some remote chance at being true if you supposed that members of WB executive staff were involved in drafting Kate Paiz' letter back in December. But we both know that's way below their noise level.

[Henay]

I'm so sorry to all those who lost their jobs today. I don't even pretend to know what that means for the future of this game, but I do know that I'm here until the end. I can't imagine any other game captivating my attention for 7 years. Best of luck to you all.