A Letter from Executive Producer Aaron Campbell

[Frisco]

As a general query, I came in when 65 was the cap. What exactly was the year after launch (back in SoA days) like? Since Rowan admitted that was a loaded statement, could someone just give me the general impression here? What exactly should I be thinking when I read a statement like that?

2 months after launch saw the addition of the Helegrod raid, Barad Gularan 6-man, and Evendim. 2 months later was troll/ranger/chicken play, Annuminas, 3 Annuminas 6-mans, and Sarnur and HI rep dungeons. 2 months later was the Rift and new areas of the Trollshaws, Misty Mountains, and Goblin Town. After that came Forochel. It was a busy year.

[Mar-Evayave]

2 months after launch saw the addition of the Helegrod raid, Barad Gularan 6-man, and Evendim. 2 months later was troll/ranger/chicken play, Annuminas, 3 Annuminas 6-mans, and Sarnur and HI rep dungeons. 2 months later was the Rift and new areas of the Trollshaws, Misty Mountains, and Goblin Town. After that came Forochel. It was a busy year.

I see now why it was a loaded statement. That is a LOT of content. ^_^

[Burrito]

The very best way to do what's best for the game is to spend money on it AND speak up about what you want. One without the other seems short-sighted if I can euphemize to that degree.

So, throw money at a sinking ship is the idea? Maybe they can use the money to plug up the holes is what you are saying? No, I don't think so. Fix the issues, THEN I'll consider spending money, but why should I spend money if after many, many months even the issues that were reported in BETA are still not fixed??

I love Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings Online, however, has become a failed marriage. It's time for a divorce.

[Beaniemooch]

While I don't disagree with those statements, if I were to play the devil's advocate: If Turbine isn't making enough money, then no matter what WB says, they wouldn't get enough money to actually turn around and develop what the playerbase wants. Enough funds MUST keep flowing through to them, otherwise it's a no-win situation on all fronts.

I refuse to spend money on a product that continues to deteriorate. If I reward Turbine for poor business decisions there is no incentive to make better ones. If I pay for cheap, non-functional content there is no incentive to make interesting, functional content. I quit spending money about April of 2013 on all my accounts because of these reasons.

I have said repeatedly I am willing to spend money on this game. What it will take is an instance cluster/raid that is new (not just scaled from the past) that gives my characters someplace to be (raid and instances) and a reason to be there (loot). I am encouraged enough with the change of leadership and the increased communication to keep hanging on and take a wait and see attitude.

[Haraam]

Welcome Back Rowan!

[ISS_21]

Dont think groupplayers are a minority or better were a minority in lotro. In fact even landscape and quests need a development time and when you as a player just focus on them, ignoring the group possibilities, you must be really quick at the end of the quest like in HD. It took me like 3-4 days to do all quest while i did a lot of instance runs (for the gear).

So what i have noticed sometimes even solo players are going for 3 man and 6 man (maybe raids), cause of gear, seals or they just want to try something out after quests are done.

Why not let players decide what they want? Why not doing a preorder for an Instance cluster like:

We are offering an Instance Cluster like Enedwaith, RoI, Moria or Mirkwood when X000 people preorder it for $ xx.

[bobbylobs]

While I don't disagree with those statements, if I were to play the devil's advocate: If Turbine isn't making enough money, then no matter what WB says, they wouldn't get enough money to actually turn around and develop what the playerbase wants. Enough funds MUST keep flowing through to them, otherwise it's a no-win situation on all fronts.

As a general query, I came in when 65 was the cap. What exactly was the year after launch (back in SoA days) like? Since Rowan admitted that was a loaded statement, could someone just give me the general impression here? What exactly should I be thinking when I read a statement like that?

I see the point you are aiming at but I will also counter that with another question.
Why should a group of players pay for a game that they have been largely neglected from, we have been told by the CM we count for "single digit percentage" in terms of players and that the things we want in the game are not getting developed for at least 12 months which means close to 2 years before we see anything we can actually play. Yet all of a sudden there are now calls for us to help fund the game????

I would turn your point on its head and ask, why dont turbine come out and say something along the lines of,"if we were to design and create new instanced content how many of you would be willing to pay for it and play it?" "how many people would re-sub if we announced a brand new moria/OD/RoI style raid cluster at the end of the year?"

We are customers, the onus is not on us to spend money in the hope it will lead to something we actually want to play, its on them to give us a reason to spend our money.

I would also add that a lot of players do not trust turbine a great deal, and we have absolutely no guarantees that our money will go to Lotro, we have no idea if we start subbing again in the hope it will lead to instanced content in lotro that it wont be spent on IC instead, now if Rowan came out and said " we are developing instanced content based around xyz and it will be released on the xxxxxxx, it will be following the OD/moria/RoI structure, it will contain 3 man, 6 man and 12 man content" then I and I am sure other will be happy to pay for that.

I WANT to spend money on this game, but I am not just going to throw it away to fund someone else's idea of a good game, give me traditional raids, 3 mans, 6 mans etc and I and lots of other people will start splashing the cash again, ignore us and we wont.

I hear this argument that BBs replaced raids and that turbine should be congratulated for doing something different, why? why should that be congratulated? we didnt ask for it, raiders didnt want it, turbine took a gamble with BBs they tried to make instanced content that was aimed at soloers, and sneak in a 12man for raiders and it failed badly, now they expect us to carry on subbing and spending money to keep funding another year of the failed BBs , without more than a slight maybe that we will see what we want in the future. Life doesnt work that way I am afraid especially with something as minor as a computer game, unfortunately for turbine and lotro, raiders can get what they want from a multitude of other avenues these days, many many games do instanced content and do it very very well, lotro has lost those, probably a large part of it for good, and now they have gone a the rest of the game is suffering, the people who organised good pugs have gone, the people who bought all the top level crafted gear have gone, the people who bought stacks and stacks of food,pots,tokens have gone, the people who took new players in and showed them the ropes have gone, if you want them back and you want them to spend their money you have to give them a reason.

I understand for some people this game is very important to them and the things that have caused a lot of players to leave do not seem important to them, and cannot understand why they have stopped "supporting" the game, well you see we dont see the turbine/player relationship like they do, they see it as turbine is doing them a favour by letting them play in middle earth and feel they should almost donate money each month as a way of thankyou, we see it as a customer/business relationship, we can take our money anywhere and spend it and we can still see middle earth when we desire for free, and you have to impress us and fight for our money, and turbine are not doing that right now. As for Rowans last post it was very dissapointing, it changed nothing for me and my friends we still only have a shaky maybe that we will see what we want, and so we will continue to drop in for free but spend our money elsewhere on a product that does cater to our wants and desires. However that said I am happy that Rowan is so vocal a very positive step and very much welcomed, we will continue to pop in and see what he has to say in the hope we get a concrete reason to part with our cash but until then, best of luck with lotro, I hope it continues for a long time yet and I hope it fulfils everything you want from it.

[Nyrion]

I hear this argument that BBs replaced raids and that turbine should be congratulated for doing something different, why? why should that be congratulated? we didnt ask for it, raiders didnt want it, turbine took a gamble with BBs they tried to make instanced content that was aimed at soloers, and sneak in a 12man for raiders and it failed badly, now they expect us to carry on subbing and spending money to keep funding another year of the failed BBs , without more than a slight maybe that we will see what we want in the future. Life doesnt work that way I am afraid especially with something as minor as a computer game, unfortunately for turbine and lotro, raiders can get what they want from a multitude of other avenues these days, many many games do instanced content and do it very very well, lotro has lost those, probably a large part of it for good, and now they have gone a the rest of the game is suffering, the people who organised good pugs have gone, the people who bought all the top level crafted gear have gone, the people who bought stacks and stacks of food,pots,tokens have gone, the people who took new players in and showed them the ropes have gone, if you want them back and you want them to spend their money you have to give them a reason.

I could empathise with you up until this point, which is where I feel the need to make something very clear:

You are not some incredibly important demographic of the game, to the point where it would fall flat if you all left. Period. Granted it's not just groupers/raiders that think this, any minority believes themselves to be that 'critical resource' that the game depends on for survival. It's all nonsense.

I'm sure people are sick of the 'c word' by now, but casuals are where the money is, and that's who Turbine has been catering to. That's not going to change unless the greater MMO demographics change, and I find that possibility very unlikely.

[bobbylobs]

I could empathise with you up until this point, which is where I feel the need to make something very clear:

You are not some incredibly important demographic of the game, to the point where it would fall flat if you all left. Period. Granted it's not just groupers/raiders that think this, any minority believes themselves to be that 'critical resource' that the game depends on for survival. It's all nonsense.

I'm sure people are sick of the 'c word' by now, but casuals are where the money is, and that's who Turbine has been catering to. That's not going to change unless the greater MMO demographics change, and I find that possibility very unlikely.

I am not saying that raiders are essential for the support of the game, I am saying that them leaving effects the game, as it would with any group leaving, when raiders leave the game will be effected, even if you just take their subs away that leaves less money for the rest of you, same as if crafters left bang goes their income to the game, if soloers and casuals are the way to go, why do the more succesful games still cater for raiders? SWTOR,Rift, WOW, GW2 all make instanced content, all provide for the raiders and still provide stuff for other groups, it CAN be done to provide for all, so why not here?

[Angadan]

I think in the "good old days" Turbine Team could "provide for all." They had a big enough staff to build a new zone, fill it with quests and deeds, push the epic books forward, add a new crafting tier, put in a host of cosmetically new and different items, a new tier of armour and jewelry, add some new bling to the PvMP vendors, build a new instance cluster and a new end-game raid, make improvements to existing systems like LIs, add something new to the festivals, and do a host of other tasks. All at the same time.

Those days are gone.

Today, Turbine's LOTRO team have to prioritize. They can't do a third of all that. Most things have to give so that a couple of things can be produced.

Choosing is hard, for them even more than for us. We love to play--they bring dinner home to their kids as long as they succeed. They want to get this right, to be successful, to please the player base. They don't always get it right, but they always try.

So now their choices are very limited, the creative staff has gotten so small. And of all the things that the player base is demanding they work on, they've honed in on the one that makes LOTRO unique and a work of art: its story. The Tolkien story around which the entire game has been built. They will see it done. With luck, and a shift in the wind, maybe they'll continue to develop the game even beyond Gondor and the Walls of Mordor, can reach new places and shift focus onto a new instance cluster and raid, or in-depth rebalancing of combat, or PvMP improvements, or the long-promised housing upgrades, or kinship improvements, or whatever your pet rock happens to be.

But first things first: get the story covered in its entirety. The Tolkien story. Lord of the Rings.

That's where I think Rowan & Crew are coming from. As a raider and a pvmper, a crafter and, yes, a Tolkien fan, I applaud them for it.

[Xerosohn]

Guys, after having read almost all the previous pages, one thing is clear to me: there won't be a challenging Multibossraid anymore, never! Or, to quote it with Merrys words, "very soon, there won't be a shire anymore"!
Come on you Executives, call me a Liar...

[SouthernBelle0927]

Mind if I play through?

I truly understand groupers/raiders/PvMPers feeling neglected and making it VERY clear every thread there's an opening--there's nothing wrong with speaking up for yourselves, and I applaud you for your passion. However, this topic has consumed Rowan's thread for several pages now and a very important, basic, issue is being drowned out that desperately needs some attention. To that end, let me ask y'all something:

What's the point of Turbine developing new content to satisfy you if the classes themselves remain broken and imbalanced? Those problems need to be fixed FIRST. Otherwise you'll have your content but you still won't be happy, because you still won't have the grouping/raiding/PvMP experience you expect. People aren't just leaving because of the lack of instance/raid clusters. There are whole classes who aren't needed right now in group play. A number of the people who are leaving from kinships are leaving because they don't enjoy playing their favorite characters, the ones they worked so hard for so long to perfect. They have no incentive to come back unless the class problems are resolved. Other people have parked their beloved characters for the same reason.

At the moment we've got a gazillion different directions we're expecting Rowan to take his team, and he's not working with infinite resources. The backbone of this game is the functionality of the characters. Those give us our identity in-game and make everything else happen. Get those problems ironed out, and some of the other things we want addressed just might fall into place more smoothly.

[Xerosohn]

Mind if I play through?

I truly understand groupers/raiders/PvMPers feeling neglected and making it VERY clear every thread there's an opening--there's nothing wrong with speaking up for yourselves, and I applaud you for your passion. However, this topic has consumed Rowan's thread for several pages now and a very important, basic, issue is being drowned out that desperately needs some attention. To that end, let me ask y'all something:

What's the point of Turbine developing new content to satisfy you if the classes themselves remain broken and imbalanced? Those problems need to be fixed FIRST. Otherwise you'll have your content but you still won't be happy, because you still won't have the grouping/raiding/PvMP experience you expect. People aren't just leaving because of the lack of instance/raid clusters. There are whole classes who aren't needed right now in group play. A number of the people who are leaving from kinships are leaving because they don't enjoy playing their favorite characters, the ones they worked so hard for so long to perfect. They have no incentive to come back unless the class problems are resolved. Other people have parked their beloved characters for the same reason.

At the moment we've got a gazillion different directions we're expecting Rowan to take his team, and he's not working with infinite resources. The backbone of this game is the functionality of the characters. Those give us our identity in-game and make everything else happen. Get those problems ironed out, and some of the other things we want addressed just might fall into place more smoothly.

You're Wrong. Most of my Kin, most of my friendlist left due to missing Endcontent. And so did I...

[Gedachtnis]

Mind if I play through?

I truly understand groupers/raiders/PvMPers feeling neglected and making it VERY clear every thread there's an opening--there's nothing wrong with speaking up for yourselves, and I applaud you for your passion. However, this topic has consumed Rowan's thread for several pages now and a very important, basic, issue is being drowned out that desperately needs some attention. To that end, let me ask y'all something:

What's the point of Turbine developing new content to satisfy you if the classes themselves remain broken and imbalanced? Those problems need to be fixed FIRST. Otherwise you'll have your content but you still won't be happy, because you still won't have the grouping/raiding/PvMP experience you expect. People aren't just leaving because of the lack of instance/raid clusters. There are whole classes who aren't needed right now in group play. A number of the people who are leaving from kinships are leaving because they don't enjoy playing their favorite characters, the ones they worked so hard for so long to perfect. They have no incentive to come back unless the class problems are resolved. Other people have parked their beloved characters for the same reason.

At the moment we've got a gazillion different directions we're expecting Rowan to take his team, and he's not working with infinite resources. The backbone of this game is the functionality of the characters. Those give us our identity in-game and make everything else happen. Get those problems ironed out, and some of the other things we want addressed just might fall into place more smoothly.

I can respond, at least for myself.

I completely agree with you about the Balance issue needing to be resolved first. It's the main reason I didn't mind no IC/Raid this Xpac because with such a huge Class revamp Balance issues were sure to follow. An IC/Raid released right now would be a disaster, it would either be so easy as to be boring or if it were made with the Balance issue in mind would need to be constantly tweaked to keep it balanced and at the right difficulty level.

What we have is a roadmap, that road map has stops for Balancing, Epic Books, System Updates, Landscape both revamped and new, Housing revamp, what it doesn't have is a planned stop for an IC/Raid. The best we have is a maybe if we can fit it in, we'll consider it. I'm not looking for an IC/Raid today, but I do want to know that my main play style is more than a possible consideration at some point, someday if the stars align.

I truly appreciate knowing that all of the stuff that has been laid out is on the menu, and I think it's important and needed stuff and I hope things like Music and PvMP get some love too even though I don't use those area at all. For me and my play style those are all great appetizers and desserts, unfortunately my main course is only a consideration.

I was very happy to see JWB had weathered the layoffs and that Aaron had moved back to LotRO, I felt it signaled some balance in content would be returning. I was very disappointed to hear that IC/Raids were not being added to the road map along with all the other great stuff that is on the map for later down the line.

I'm looking forward to Aaron's next letter and I'll be interested in any info that comes from the Hobbit run this week.

[TheCrossbow]

I could empathise with you up until this point, which is where I feel the need to make something very clear:

You are not some incredibly important demographic of the game, to the point where it would fall flat if you all left. Period. Granted it's not just groupers/raiders that think this, any minority believes themselves to be that 'critical resource' that the game depends on for survival. It's all nonsense.

I'm sure people are sick of the 'c word' by now, but casuals are where the money is, and that's who Turbine has been catering to. That's not going to change unless the greater MMO demographics change, and I find that possibility very unlikely.

In case you missed it, I did lay out a pretty good case as to what kind of impact raiders/groupers do have on the game. Let me copy it over for you...

While the number of people who use the forums is small... and the number of people who would be counted as PvPers and raiders is small... the people who even semi-regularly participate in the raiding aspects of the game tend to have the most "trickle-down" impact on the game.

In terms of the impact raiders have on the community, let me fire off a few examples...

> Raiders are the most likely people to use the Auction House. Their "money" often goes toward the gear and consumables they need for group activities. A raider (playing a hunter) is much more likely to even go looking for Light/Fire Oils, Bow Chants, and Focus Potions. A raider is much more likely to think about using various things that might be overlooked by others. And, guess what? Raiders are the most likely people to (by extension) support the "economy" of their server.

> Likewise, raiders are much more likely to make full use of the crafting system. They want the good gear and consumables. So, that is going to create natural demand for crafted items. Yes, other people do use the crafting system... but not nearly as much as someone who needs to keep up their crafting to support raiding habits... and by extension, their friends are encouraged to keep up their crafting to support their raiding friends.

> Raiders are the ones most responsible for a lot of the good items that make their way to the Auction House. All those Star-lit crystals on the AH didn't just magically appear. You don't get them by RPing or questing (well, not yet anyways). You get those kind of items to drop only by running 3, 6, and 12 man instances.

> Raiders are the ones who encourage the building of a solid network of "friends" within the community. There is just something about "fighting, bleeding, and dying together" that builds friendships... in ways that other methods don't even compare. You are able to make that "connection" much better via raiding. Granted, some raiders can be jerks... but I would say easily 90% of them are great folks... if you don't mind putting up with a little coarse language and crazy antics.

> All other aspects of the game benefit from having a healthy raiding community. I dare say that raiders are much more likely to discover the "fun" aspects of the game... like RP, music, crafting... even delving more into the quests... because raiders want to learn the mechanics of the game so as to discover how best to play their characters. Even raiders need time to just chill out and do non-raiding stuff. Example: There was a really great Guardian who used to play on my server (some may know him as Horthell) who also loved to mess around with the music system.

> Raiders are the most likely people to spend [real] money on the game. They have the most incentive to do so... if only to maintain their subscription.

> Raiders are the most likely people to have greater knowledge about the game... and be able to pass it along to newbies... thus, adding more people to the "raiding population."

Now, don't get me wrong... I am not saying that other people don't do some or all of the things I listed. I am simply saying that raiders have the most natural incentive to take full advantage of all aspects of the game.

And, I dare say that those who are voicing discontent with the LACK of adequate group/raiding content is steadily growing beyond just the more active raiders... even the some of the people who are more the "average Joe that only dabbles in grouping" are starting to speak up.


As I have stated before... for the first time... Helms Deep brought us new content that has not really offered decent group or solo friendly content. At least with Riders of Rohan, we had Hytbold initially... and the Erebor instance cluster. Not everyone thought they were the best... but it did give decent solo-friendly progression (Hytbold) stuff to do at the level cap... and Erebor at least attempted to give us some instances capitalizing on "The Hobbit" interest.

Helms Deep brought us the trait trees... which has had mixed reviews depending on who you ask... but (IMHO) fell short on even doing what Riders of Rohan delivered. So, now, not only are the "raiders" unhappy with the LACK of good group stuff... Big Battles would have been so much better with a few tweaks... but, there is not much for the solo guy to do once you hit the level cap. The solo guy doesn't even have decent repeatable quests to do to get more Western Rohan barter tokens beyond war bands.

To summarize... the inclusion or lack of decent group content... and lack of a decent raiding community within the game DOES eventually affect "casual Joe."

This is why those of us who enjoy raiding... and you don't have to be a "hardcore" raider to enjoy *some* raiding, heck my kin is about as casual as it gets and we enjoy doing raids... we understand the impact on the rest of the game it has.

But, there seems to be a strong contingent of people who play LOTRO who are determined to make the game "not so friendly" to groupers. They claim to want to make the game more "solo friendly". Funny thing is... the latest expansion came up short on being either solo friendly or really appealing to groupers.
This is what you get when incompetence reigns free. The "anti-grouping" crowd doesn't realize how much of an impact "group content" has on also having good "solo" content. And, anytime someone tries to just educate them (kindly) on this fact... the raiders get accused of being everything they aren't.

[Nyrion]

In case you missed it, I did lay out a pretty good case as to what kind of impact raiders/groupers do have on the game. Let me copy it over for you...



To summarize... the inclusion or lack of decent group content... and lack of a decent raiding community within the game DOES eventually affect "casual Joe."

This is why those of us who enjoy raiding... and you don't have to be a "hardcore" raider to enjoy *some* raiding, heck my kin is about as casual as it gets and we enjoy doing raids... we understand the impact on the rest of the game it has.

But, there seems to be a strong contingent of people who play LOTRO who are determined to make the game "not so friendly" to groupers. They claim to want to make the game more "solo friendly". Funny thing is... the latest expansion came up short on being either solo friendly or really appealing to groupers.
This is what you get when incompetence reigns free. The "anti-grouping" crowd doesn't realize how much of an impact "group content" has on also having good "solo" content. And, anytime someone tries to just educate them (kindly) on this fact... the raiders get accused of being everything they aren't.

And I would heavily disagree with most of those points, the only one I'd consider remotely valid is relating to the Auction House(and only for a select few types of items).

You're welcome to think raiders bring benefits to the game, on a limited basis I might agree with that. But don't try and twist this so that the 'incompetent soloers' are ruining the game while the 'kind and brave raiders' are doing their best to save it. That is the exact kind of egotism that people criticise raiders for.

[SouthernBelle0927]

You're Wrong. Most of my Kin, most of my friendlist left due to missing Endcontent. And so did I...

And the point of end content that you can't play the way you want to play it is....?

Just because what I said doesn't apply to you personally doesn't mean I'm wrong. Read the board. The lack of end content isn't the only thing driving people away. Kins aren't static entities, unless they're casual kins people put together in order to have kinship houses for large groups of alts, or to avoid being spammed with kin invites. People come and people go. Kinships that can't find new members who share their interests go under.

Presumably you and your friends enjoy end content, which I interpret here as IC and raids, because everyone enjoys playing their classes a certain way: healers heal, tankers tank, DPSers DPS....and so forth. Right now, we've got DPSers galore across all classes, but healers, where they're still possibly needed even the slightest bit, stand around and spam a single skill once in a while and keep everyone alive. There's no challenge there, regardless of how intricate the cluster is. I'm a minstrel. I have zero incentive to even try the blue line or learn to be a fully functioning member of a raid. Why should I? I can group heal from red line just by stance dancing, and quite honestly with all the self-heals everyone else has I really only need to keep myself alive. My most valuable skill in a raid, Rally!, is buried in the very tip-top of the bonus set of the blue line. I'm approaching end-content level (currently my mini is lvl 79). If there is no incentive for me to play the minstrel's proper role in a raid, what's the point of joining a raiding kin?

Shoot, I used to get bombarded with fellowship invites for Great Burrow and all sorts of instances the moment I logged on with my minstrel. I've not had one single request to join a PUG fellowship for an instance like that since HD went live. Not one. I'm willing to bet that Calta and Beaniemooch and several other of the active, high-level minstrels on this board can tell similar tales. Our class isn't needed right now for what it does best. And we still wouldn't be needed if Turbine rolled out an entire expansion with nothing but IC/raids this afternoon.

Therein lies the biggest problem for any kin which specializes in end-content raiding. You participate in those raids because you like the challenge of working together efficiently to get through the mobs and bosses and achieve the top awards at the end of the raid, correct? Right now, there's no challenge for whole classes of players. That's not going to change with new IC/raid content if the class imbalances, breaks, and overpowering isn't addressed. So yes, this IS a problem for you and your kin whether you recognize it or not.

[ShireDweller]

And I would heavily disagree with most of those points, the only one I'd consider remotely valid is relating to the Auction House(and only for a select few types of items).

You're welcome to think raiders bring benefits to the game, on a limited basis I might agree with that. But don't try and twist this so that the 'incompetent soloers' are ruining the game while the 'kind and brave raiders' are doing their best to save it. That is the exact kind of egotism that people criticise raiders for.

I didn't see Crossbow use any of the names you claim that he did. Please don't try to portray his post as doing so. His use of "incompetence" was not specifically linked to soloers, it was left ambiguous.

I happen to think he's right on all counts in his assessment of what raiders bring to the game.

[Angadan]

Right now, there's no challenge for whole classes of players. That's not going to change with new IC/raid content if the class imbalances, breaks, and overpowering isn't addressed. So yes, this IS a problem for you and your kin whether you recognize it or not.

She's right. This has to be evident to every real end-game raider who understands the dynamics of the raiding group. Whether you see it or not, she's right.

I didn't see Crossbow use any of the names you claim that he did. Please don't try to portray his post as doing so.

I happen to think he's right on all counts in his assessment of what raiders bring to the game.

I didn't see Crossbow go negative, either. I think Nyrion was wrong to portray it as if he did. On the other hand, I agree with Nyrion's skepticism. I'm a raider, and I don't think we raiders have those kinds of impact on the game at large. Our contribution is more indirect, more in the form of tone and trend setting.

[Frisco]

And I would heavily disagree with most of those points, the only one I'd consider remotely valid is relating to the Auction House(and only for a select few types of items).

You're welcome to think raiders bring benefits to the game, on a limited basis I might agree with that. But don't try and twist this so that the 'incompetent soloers' are ruining the game while the 'kind and brave raiders' are doing their best to save it. That is the exact kind of egotism that people criticise raiders for.

Yeah, you clearly have a chip on your shoulder if that is what you got out of that post. Raiders benefiting the game doesn't mean they're actively trying to save it and are all noble and stuff, or that soloers are "incompetent"--it's just that when there are consumers and teachers and sellers, life is better for creators and students and buyers, respectively. Same can be said for the store--Turbine has created some really strong in-game perks and shortcuts. But they're only going to sell them if they create a market for them.

[Mystarr]

Assuming the speculation in this thread is correct, I can respect the dev team wanting to get the game to Mordor. I want to see Mordor in LOTRO.

However its worth noting that we will spend the majority of our time on the journey NOT the destination. IMO the "quality" of the journey is actually more important than arriving at the destination. So.... what determines the "quality" of the journey?

The really amazing thing about an MMO is that you can share your journey (gaming time) with friends. The beautiful landscapes and well thought out content in an MMO set the stage for us to interact with other players as we explore Tolkien's world.

What makes us come together with other players in LOTRO? Shared Challenges. (It was true for the characters in Tolkien's story and its true for us as players.) Players meet other players for lots of reasons. For some the reason is PvP. For others its grinding instances to help each other get rewards. For others it grinding challenging landscape mobs to help each other get rewards. Etc... (One thing all of this type of content has in common is balance. If classes and content and rewards aren't balanced then group play falls apart. I am really concerned that there has been very little comment on the current state of balance from the devs. Where does balancing out the huge changes in HD fall on the priority list?)

It's important to have content that encourages players to work together. Players don't group up to watch each other gather wood, or clean tables, or kill landscape mobs that die in seconds.

While we travel to Mordor please design content that encourages us to journey there with old friends and new ones we meet along the way. It would be a sad thing if the rest of our journey from Rohan to Mordor lacks the fellowship/friendship that was so central to Tolkien's story.

[Nouri]

For the past several months there has been a noticeable decline in activity. Very little grouping, very little need of crafted gear or consumables. Our kin has been lucky enough to hold our numbers (in part due to smaller kins folding) but people are very clearly not playing as *long* as they used to.

I've played for a long time on multiple servers with PvE raiding kins. I'd venture to say that most PvE raiding kin are either gone, or their level of activity has dropped dramatically. There's just nothing for them to do nowadays. Turbine hasn't put out a decent multi-boss raid since RoI almost two-and-a-half years ago. A large percentage of PvE raiders have moved on to other games. So people at Turbine wonder why their player base has dropped, less revenue is coming in, and they have to drop developers as a result?

I read the 2014 Producer's Letter and found it very concerning. Our endgame content, Big Battles, was not well received. Questing became incredibly easy. I read all of the 'sky is falling' posts and thought to myself "OK..this was a misfire, those things happen, they can turn this around".

True, true and highly doubtful.

As I said, I am not a hard core raider or PVPer. But I do consider them to be essential to the game and I do not underestimate their impact on the economy of the game, their demand for items from gatherers and crafters, and the amount of knowledge and wisdom they spread to their up and coming kinmates.

Many of those people have already left, and more are leaving everyday.

If you are a raider and are hoping to see more raiding content in the next year (potentially ever), you have your answer:
"We'll consider new group content where we can fit it in, but the team's priority is definitely moving the story and growing the world."

The confirmed intentions of the game are to grow the open world and get us to the end of the story, with some QoL improvements along the way.
While it COULD happen, don't pin your hopes and dreams on Big New Raids.

/cries as longtime kin mates leave for other games

I'm curious to see how the changes in direction impact population and the ability of my kinship to keep thriving and enjoying the game together.

I hope your kinship continues to thrive, my friend. Only one of the five kinships I have toons in is still reasonably active.

[Mar-Evayave]

Can we please get back on topic? People seem to hate it when threads get locked and I, for one, don't want this thread to have the same fate. We've already been warned. I was as guilty as anyone for derailing it. I am only responsible for myself, though, so here's another attempt to get the topic back on track...

Hello all! I’m Aaron “Rowan” Campbell, Executive Producer of The Lord of the Rings Online.*

Update 13 (and LOTRO’s 7^th Anniversary) are coming up soon (He said it! Not me!- Sapience). There is a long list of new features with U13, but I want to highlight some of the key items and the great folks that are working on them.

Epic Book: We’re going to Flooded Isengard! MadeofLions has put together an epic experience, where you finally get to experience life as an Ent.

North Downs: This is a vast and classic region. Budgeford is digging in to modernize and improve the space, much like she’s done in the past with Moria.

Fangorn Forest: Quickbeam needs your help! JWBarry has led the charge to build out new quests in Southern Fangorn, including a special friend you might earn.

In addition, mail will now support multiple attachments. VIPs will be able to open mail in the wilderness through your mail alert. Inventory is getting entirely new management options. And we have a new prototype of Hobnangians that we expect to release later this year.

As Kate mentioned, we’re pressing forward to Gondor! We’re digging in deep (but not too deep) to continue the journey through Middle-earth. I look forward to telling you more about our plans for 2014 and into 2015 in the near future.

Rowan

*For those that remember me, I’ve been with LOTRO since 2006. I stepped away over the last year to run Dungeons and Dragons Online. Now I’m back in Middle-earth and thrilled to be working with the LOTRO team again.

Obviously we won't get the full list of details until U13 actually hits the patch servers (even the release notes in Beta aren't set-in-stone on the specific details) but when do you guys (Sapience, Rowan, etc) think you'll be able to share a full list of the new features?

[Sapience]

Can we please get back on topic? People seem to hate it when threads get locked and I, for one, don't want this thread to have the same fate. We've already been warned. I was as guilty as anyone for derailing it. I am only responsible for myself, though, so here's another attempt to get the topic back on track...



Obviously we won't get the full list of details until U13 actually hits the patch servers (even the release notes in Beta aren't set-in-stone on the specific details) but when do you guys (Sapience, Rowan, etc) think you'll be able to share a full list of the new features?

Until the meeting I literally just left, I would have said tomorrow (or at least a very large portion of it) because, as I mentioned elsewhere, we had been planning on going to Bullroarer this week. That's changed and we're now looking at sometime next week.

[Cheery]

Mind if I play through?

I truly understand groupers/raiders/PvMPers feeling neglected and making it VERY clear every thread there's an opening--there's nothing wrong with speaking up for yourselves, and I applaud you for your passion. However, this topic has consumed Rowan's thread for several pages now and a very important, basic, issue is being drowned out that desperately needs some attention. To that end, let me ask y'all something:

What's the point of Turbine developing new content to satisfy you if the classes themselves remain broken and imbalanced? Those problems need to be fixed FIRST. Otherwise you'll have your content but you still won't be happy, because you still won't have the grouping/raiding/PvMP experience you expect. People aren't just leaving because of the lack of instance/raid clusters. There are whole classes who aren't needed right now in group play. A number of the people who are leaving from kinships are leaving because they don't enjoy playing their favorite characters, the ones they worked so hard for so long to perfect. They have no incentive to come back unless the class problems are resolved. Other people have parked their beloved characters for the same reason.

At the moment we've got a gazillion different directions we're expecting Rowan to take his team, and he's not working with infinite resources. The backbone of this game is the functionality of the characters. Those give us our identity in-game and make everything else happen. Get those problems ironed out, and some of the other things we want addressed just might fall into place more smoothly.

Good sense. There's a number of areas that need work since the inception of the trait trees (see Minstrel Forum for one). I have assumed that work on these areas would be on-going throughout the year. Hope I'm right.
But the balancing issues are probably the most glaring need. Mind you, I have enjoyed plowing through Mobs while leveling my very low level characters. But at higher levels, it's not fun; it's not worth doing.