An Open Letter to Players and Devs

[Octaviane]

So I know threads like this have like been made before, but I really wanted to talk about the game in a specific way and have no outlet except here. Let me preface by saying I have been playing LotRO off and on over 4+ years. I have subscribed for a month here and there, I have bought coins a couple of times, but I've honestly never devoted any serious time to the game. I've been thinking for a long time that I've passed the game by for too long, but I have finally given it some proper focus and I wanted to talk about it.

Due to my love of the beginning game and ability to be distracted easily, I've actually never taken a character out of the Vanillla content. I leveled a hunter to mid 40's, a mini to mid 40's, and then a warden to mid 40's over my flirts with the game. Part of it was my focus on crafting and traveling around, part of it was lack of content due to not buying questing areas, but I really lost focus.

I made the decision to buy the quad pack prior to HD launching because I wanted to make a commitment that I would see this game's content. I started that journey about a week or so ago, whenever I started 'actively' posting here. Let me tell you, I have been thoroughly enjoying myself. I know this is several years late and some of the content has been revamped, including the class mechanics, but I just finished Moria and it was rather well done. I'm actually conflicted because there are soooo many more quests to do in there, but I'm exalted with both factions, already level 61, and my home of Mirkwood is calling my name.

I know it's easy to get caught up in what changes you dislike, how the game has moved away from what you enjoy, but as someone completely apart from all the 'drama' this game has taken in its changes I have to say it's a grand adventure. Other than having way too much backtracking, especially in the story quests, LotRO is the MMO equivalent of reading a really good book. It makes you want to live inside the world, visiting your favorite parts over and over.

While a lot of people will write this off as a 'LotRO is Fun' thread, I mean this more to be an outsiders experience. Perhaps some people have forgotten that they could feel this way about the game? Maybe you have taken time away and forgotten what it could be. Or maybe you really have done all there is to do. For me, my adventure has just started and I hope that I can be as steadfast as Sam and see it all to the end. There are many deeds and accomplishments, not to mention several festivals and lots of pie to eat ahead of me.

It's easy for a community to devour itself, which I do see happen on here a little, but maybe we could all remember that we're here for a reason. Whether it's the first time we ran through the Shire, when we looked out over Weathertop, when we had that sense of dread approaching Moria knowing the Watcher was in the lake (maybe we even swam through it trying not to pee our hobbit pants)....whatever it is...I promise you it is still there. A lot of changes, possibly for the worse, have happened by necessity to generate revenue but please don't get too caught up in that.

This sounds naïve, way too cheery (especially for me), but honestly I am very glad that the people still working at Turbine are trying to make our dream come true. I'm sure it's a struggle to balance what you want to do, what we ask you to do, and what the execs want to do to make money, but above all thank you for bringing this word to life. I know you have until 2017, but I hope to still be playing LotRO when we ring in a new decade.



To anyone reading this - feel free to blast me out of the water, feel free to say everything you hate about the game, or simply remember what you love even if it has passed you by. You may find that there is another adventure waiting for you just outside the door, if you could only remember how to put one foot on the road and let it carry you ever on. Not all who wander are lost...

What a lovely post, thank you so much Kitty

[Beaniemooch]

I've been here for over 5 years. When I originally joined MoM was brand new and friends were in the process of leveling from 50 to 60. I leveled up with the specific intention of raiding with them, and that's what I proceeded to do within a 6 month period. I love the lore, but I came here to participate in an MMO with both story and challenging content. If all I want is story I can (and do) re-read the books and re-watch the movies.

I miss the days when I used to have challenge and adventure for my hobbit minstrel, and every day was exciting and full of things to do. That ended with RoR and the Erebor raids combined with the appalling RNG. I left the game for the first time ever for a couple months, then switched to the HD beta where I was more appalled than ever. The skill trees gated things that should never have been affected by them, class deeds were broken, and skills no longer worked. To this very day most of that hasn't changed, although I've been asking for change (along with many others) since the beginning of beta.

I've never thought of Middle Earth as rainbows and lollipops everywhere. If I did my hobbits would've never left the Shire. On my journey to Mordor I expect to face great challenge, epic battles (not what was provided, btw, I think those were a huge misstep), and accomplish many things. Right now I feel like somebody gave me a nuclear weapon to take back to the Stone Ages and the feeling of challenge, adventure and accomplishment are all missing.

My love for middle earth hasn't changed. My satisfaction with the game has been greatly diminished. If I was anything other than a lifetime account holder I wouldn't still be here because to me money talks. When I had all the things I mention above I constantly spent money both in the store and for expansions. I haven't spent anything on my 3 lifetime accounts since last April when I left Erebor in disgust. If the content quality improves I'll be happy to open my wallet and spend generously again. In the meantime I wait. It's not the game I loved and wanted, but it's what I'm left with for now.

[English]

@Beanie I hear you. I have tons of friends across a zillion guilds in Landroval and every time I would log in I would instantly get a tell from one person or another: "Hey English we doing this or that, want to join us, bring your 'tank' (Guardian), or Heals (Minstrel), DPS (Hunter) or just whatever". Heck I could give a dam about loot, just playing with friends in any 'dangerous' adventure was/is what is all about in an MMO and what a cool feeling one's participation was indeed needed and appreciated. THAT is what I miss foremost.

[Dordain]

It's definitely easier to play a game that has years of content ahead of you. I've played WoW since it released and while I feel like I could always do something in the game, it doesn't feel very fulfilling. I guess I should say I feel a stronger need for a sense of purpose after all these years. It may be hard for older players to remember that the point of the game is just to play it. Whether that means to rediscover some old content or go out and complete a lot of deeds unfinished, there's probably something for you.

I know the recent hubub is all about lack of group/raid content, but there's a lot more to the game than that. Personal progression is important, but this game has a lot of progression in a lot of areas. I'm naive, I know, but trying to show an outsider's perspective on what is going on. Perhaps when I reach level cap I will max out gear and feel stymied, but I feel there are a lot of goals for me to achieve. I look forward to seeing for myself if I feel like others do.

But it's not just the lack of group content people are disillusioned with here. Let me re-quote this dire warning for you:

The low to mid game IS pretty awesome. Moria especially is fantastic, I feel its the high point of the game. After that, especially past Mirkwood, you can clearly see the quality and commitment to the game dropping off sharply, along with many of the original developers. I think if Turbine had been able to put as much time, money and effort into Rohan as they did into Moria, the game would be utterly amazing all the way to 95.

You just left Moria- the apogee of LotRO's content. The vast majority or players have found that every expansion past Moria is just a little bit worse in quality and overall "fun" than the one that preceded it:

Siege of Mirkwood isn't as good as Moria was.
Enedwaith was Eregion 2.0, but not as well done. It had a great Instance Cluster, though!
Rise of Isengard wasn't as good as Mirkwood was. The landscape questing was poorly done.
Great River was an overall pretty well received little addition to the game, especially when compared to RoI.
Riders of Rohan was(IMO) a little better than RoI with regards to the landscape questing, but still failed miserably on a few other issues like group content and itemization. It may have been better than RoI, but still not as good as Mirkwood or anything before it.
Wildermore sucks compared to Great River in most people's opinions.
Helm's Deep was the sharpest drop off in quality so far, and had far too many long time players feeling betrayed and disillusioned with Turbine and the game in general.

You see, it really is a "Frog in boiling water" type of scenario with this game's quality. Shadows of Angmar & Moria are absolutely great, high quality releases. But sadly, that level of quality drops off precipitously after that. And it takes a little while before you really realize that it has permanently dropped off. Speaking for myself, I figured SoM and Enedwaith were just flukes, and that the level of quality would get back on track with RoI. I was wrong. By the time I got to Galtrev, it was clear that the Mines of Moria era of "high quality" LotRO was dead and buried.

I can't help but notice that most of the people here on the forums that post "This game is great! You people shouldn't complain and should just go play something else..." Are usually players that really haven't made it all that far past Moria yet(or they're vehemently solo-only players that couldn't care less if Turbine ever made any more group content). By all means, keep playing and see for yourself. But don't say we didn't warn you...

[Schmidster]

It must be difficult seeing others enjoy this game. Period.

I will listen to predictions and communication from employees, not the endless sky-falling rhetoric.

[Beaniemooch]

It must be difficult seeing others enjoy this game. Period.

I will listen to predictions and communication from employees, not the endless sky-falling rhetoric.

It's not difficult at all seeing others enjoy the game and it's not sky is falling rhetoric. I think everybody should be able to enjoy playing the game frankly. For people that have broken classes (minstrel is my main and appears completely neglected by the dev) or enjoy traditional group content (raids/instances) are not enjoying it and are speaking up to ask for what they want. We're players too, and when there's content we enjoy we pay our money the same as everybody else. I have three accounts I'm more than willing to open my wallet and spend money on, if there was anything worth spending it for. Right now with over powered characters and unbalanced combat plus broken neglected classes, sorry, my money stays firmly in my wallet while I lobby for a higher quality product.

You're free to listen to whomever you choose to listen to.

[Dordain]

It must be difficult seeing others enjoy this game. Period.

I will listen to predictions and communication from employees, not the endless sky-falling rhetoric.

What's up with this incendiary tripe? As though anyone would actually begrudge anyone else for enjoying a game. If anything, it should be difficult for YOU to see your fellow players no longer able to enjoy the game as much as they once did due solely to the direction that the developers have chosen to take it in. Unless, of course, you're a sociopath that's incapable of empathy, or something else along those lines.

[Kittyvicious]

What's up with this incendiary tripe? As though anyone would actually begrudge anyone else for enjoying a game. If anything, it should be difficult for YOU to see your fellow players no longer able to enjoy the game as much as they once did due solely to the direction that the developers have chosen to take it in. Unless, of course, you're a sociopath that's incapable of empathy, or something else along those lines.

While you are upset that they have made potentially incendiary remarks to your criticism, your post to me essentially tried to tell me what a bad time I'm going to have prior to even having it and discrediting everyone who enjoys the game just because they haven't 'seen what you have'. That's just as unhelpful. I totally get that a portion of the players have a vocal dissatisfaction with the content direction of the current game. I know I would be upset if my favorite method of content was completely neglected for a year.

However, we don't have access to the types of data that Turbine have. If we step away and be objective about the situation, there's a large potential that a significantly high number of their players simply don't care for or participate in raid content. Considering this has been concretely proven in other games and taking LotRO's much smaller player base, it wouldn't surprise me if the amount of vocal people asking for raid content on the forums and generally expressing displeasure with everything about HD are an extreme minority.

That doesn't mean that your experience doesn't matter by any means, but Turbine can't please everyone. It's quite possible that improving the parts of the game you say are the most enjoyable will help acquire and retain new players so that they can return to making niche content like raids. We also have to imagine that their end game was always to see the story of the one ring seen through to the end before they have to close things down. Focusing on raid content doesn't exactly go against that goal, but maybe it does conflict with it more than we know.

So by all means, tell Turbine that you want more raids, but please don't tell people that they are going to hate x,y, and z simply because you don't like it and they should take your word for it. For all I know I will like the game more and more as I play through it because I don't care about group content to the extent that others do. Part of the point of me saying what a wonderful job has been done to create this world and giving a lot of credit to Turbine is that we have cultivated communities bent on asking for more, never understanding anything objectively, and holding all of that against the developer.

There were days where we simply bought games and didn't have any interaction with the company who made them. We either enjoyed the games or didn't. And funnily enough, we almost always enjoyed them. If we didn't, we sure didn't spend as much time complaining about it. It's not like games were perfect and have constantly evolved to be worse. That makes no logical or business sense. The same can be said of LotRO. There may be changes that we don't agree with, but I can guarantee that the game is objectively better from the day it was released.

Ultimately if the lack of group content affects you greatly, the strongest thing you can do is cease to fund the game in any capacity. If you are a lifer, as rude as it sounds, your money just doesn't mean anything to Turbine because you've gotten a rather large end of the stick and they can't go back in time and undo that. Financially not everyone is as important. So the best thing I know to do is to disconnect the business from the game and simply enjoy what I like. I'm liking LotRO a lot...I always have. I don't have anything for anyone but positive encouragement to try and connect to the game and find something you love about it. If there's nothing there, all I have is a big *shrug* and to say there are a lot of games out there....but I really hope you can find what you are looking for where you want to find it.

[Dordain]

But here's the thing(and I think I didn't make it clear enough in my initial post):

I'm not actually talking about group or raid content, even though I did mention it(which probably obfuscated my point a little). I was mostly referring to the standard landscape questing itself. That content has actually gotten worse as time goes by. Again, keep playing. You will eventually see what we were talking about.

I know I'll probably get rebuked as presumptuous or whatever for saying it. But oh well.

It's a side note, but there is one thing that's objectively demanded by the current part of the story which unfortunately happens to make me enjoy the game a little less. And that's the fact that we've been completely immersed in the human-only areas of Dunland and Rohan for the last few years. Nothing pertains to Elves, Dwarves or Hobbits anymore. Don't misunderstand me, I understand why that's so. I'm just lamenting that it has affected the flavor and ambiance of the game for me. The only exception was a tiny bit of Elven stuff in Great River, and some miscellaneous stuff dealing with the Ents. No Dwarven stuff has been seen since Thror's Comb in Enedwaith. Hobbits? Ancient history. I'm having Race of Man burnout, and the devs didn't help matters much by forcing us to wade through 2+ years of just the Dunlandings and their incessant "Duvodiad" stuff. It was like playing some weird stone-age MMO. RoI spent way too much time on them.

[Kittyvicious]

Again, keep playing. You will eventually see what we were talking about.

Regarding your burnout on men, perhaps this additional content they are looking at adding will help alleviate that concern. If they add these other areas outside the scope of the Ring's journey, but keep it as high level content, you may get your refreshing questing and world experience.

I think their recent responses show that they have heard that feedback loud and clear. Time will tell I guess. And I frankly don't think I'll be any less pleased with the game knowing myself a bit better than most. As someone who loves alts and revisiting old content, for all I know I could keep content on the game playing everything pre Rohan over and over again. I do similar things in other games, so I guess I'm a fortunate soul who gets the most enjoyment out of certain aspects of the game.

But I understand people with 7 years or different preferences than me will certainly not feel the same.

[Dworin]

Great post, Kitty. I love this game, and I think people sometimes lose sight of how great it really is. I think for those who are frustrated, roll up a few alts and just meander through the old content. A lot of it has been revamped, and even for those of us who've done the content dozens of times, there are still ways to enjoy this game if you look for them.

I really don't understand why this suggestion gets tossed out like some sort of panacea. I have 4 character at 95, one at 87 (which I cannot level because I would have to do the same old content once more, and going through it all again would just be dreary) one at 75, and many at lower levels. I can only do the quests a few times and it all becomes old. I can only grind out Grey Company rep a few times. I can only grind out Algraig rep so many times. Maybe for folks who don't have many alts your suggestion is a good one, but I wish to express a different point of view, here. I have equipped the 95's in teal gear, and I'm telling you for me the game has become a borefest. The thought of rolling yet another alt makes me shudder.

[Dordain]

Regarding your burnout on men, perhaps this additional content they are looking at adding will help alleviate that concern. If they add these other areas outside the scope of the Ring's journey, but keep it as high level content, you may get your refreshing questing and world experience.

I think their recent responses show that they have heard that feedback loud and clear. Time will tell I guess. And I frankly don't think I'll be any less pleased with the game knowing myself a bit better than most. As someone who loves alts and revisiting old content, for all I know I could keep content on the game playing everything pre Rohan over and over again. I do similar things in other games, so I guess I'm a fortunate soul who gets the most enjoyment out of certain aspects of the game.

But I understand people with 7 years or different preferences than me will certainly not feel the same.

You're presuming that we don't have alts as well. Apart from my Hunter main, I have a 64 Guardian in Mirkwood that's also running Moria instances, another Guard at 58 currently finishing up Eregion, a 40 Mini last seen in the Trollshaws, and a 36 Cappie that's currently running through Evendim. Those, and a bunch of other assorted lowbies and crafting alts. I have approximately 12 characters between 20-34.

Do yourself a favor, and get 5 other players together to run some of the Moria 6-person instances. They are some of this game's best content. You haven't truly played LotRO until you've been through Forges of Khazad-Dum or Carn Dum in Angmar.

[Beaniemooch]

Great post, Kitty. I love this game, and I think people sometimes lose sight of how great it really is. I think for those who are frustrated, roll up a few alts and just meander through the old content. A lot of it has been revamped, and even for those of us who've done the content dozens of times, there are still ways to enjoy this game if you look for them.

I had 10 at level cap 75, 8 went to level cap 85, and 4 have gone to level cap 95 (2 are solely crafters). I have multiple alts at all levels in between from an 18 warden to a 68 guard, RKs, hunter, champ, captain, LM.... I rolled a new minstrel a few weeks ago and she's now 90. I rolled another toon who is now 36, trying to test different areas of the game, how has the skill tree change affected them. They have been OP from day one with my first minstrel one-shotting mobs in the starter as soon as she got Piercing Cry, wearing whatever she was given. The game is not balanced. I skipped 3 complete areas on the 90 minstrel - North Downs, Trollshaws and Misty Mountains - because I was leveling too fast. When I got to RoR and HD I've been locked into linear questing and the quests I'm on now are light blue and I'm still doing Eorlingas rep quests. She still wearing quest gear and not dying no matter what solo quest instance or other situation she gets in.

How many alts am I supposed to roll as an experiment before it becomes clear to me the game is off balance and doesn't get better, it only gets easier and more unbalanced? By the way, I wasn't hurrying, for me it was meandering in the extreme. I've been at level 86-90 for a couple weeks now because there's no urge to continue. That's when I created a new baby, only to find changing and doing different areas didn't make it any more challenging or fun. While I may pooh-pooh ideas like this I usually give them a try, and in this case I gave it more than one try. It just didn't produce a different result. And the classic definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, right?

I haven't lost sight of how great this game is. I remember well when it was. I'm hoping someday it will be again if enough change takes place to provide something for everyone, and not just a few.

[Nymphonic]

It must be difficult seeing others enjoy this game. Period.

I will listen to predictions and communication from employees, not the endless sky-falling rhetoric.

I pretty much have to agree with this. What gets me is that the people on the other side of the fence feel that we who still enjoy and love this game are blind to to all the deficiencies in the game that have come over the years. We are well aware and often agree with all the criticisms. But we still play and enjoy our time in LOTRTO.

Again, keep playing. You will eventually see what we were talking about.

Most of us that play do see what you guys are talking about and more often than not we actually agree with what all of you say. But we still log on and have fun.

[Nymphonic]

and a 36 Cappie that's currently running through Evendim.

On an off topic note that has nothing to do with the thread topic, how are you enjoying your cappy? I'm just asking because I just started one. She(female toon) is in her mid 20s and getting ready for Trestlebridge. It's weird not having a range attack. I usually do the shout to get the mob to come to me so I don't have to charge up to it.

I made her last name "IstheBoss" and the herald's name is "ShesTheBoss"


Best herald name I ever saw was "Mystuntdouble". "Imwithstupid" made me chuckle too.

[Kittyvicious]

Currently in Mirkwood and having a blast. I thought I remember people complaining about that expansion when it came out and I think it's rather neat. I actually have outleveled the zone and am being told to go to Isengard stuff, but I'm having so much fun I'm just going to continue questing there. As an aside, I find it odd that I usually hate grinding in games, but I'm looking forward to deed grinding in LotRO. I have no idea why this is, but something about the whole design is very rewarding to me.

I'm glad I pushed myself through to the other side of the original level cap because I've never had more fun playing the game. While getting stuck in old content because of how awesome all the early zones are was great, getting to see all of these fantastic zones and stories I haven't experienced are a blast. I'm sorry LotRO, you deserved me so much earlier than this. I will make up for my time lost and do all of the things!

I have deeds, both exploring and killing, skirmishes to farm and deed out as well, reps to earn, professions to fine tune, and then the alts...oh dear the alts.

[commanderjerkface]

"I've been playing properly for a week and I think the game is great!"

These threads pop up every so often and, with all due respect, they tend to lack perspective. I'm glad you're enjoying the game (in fact I am rather envious that you are!), as the vast majority of us no doubt did on our first playthrough. However, come back after ~5 years of exponentially increasing terrible decisions/directions that affect things you have yet to experience at all and let us know how you feel then

[Kittyvicious]

However, come back after ~5 years of exponentially increasing terrible decisions/directions that affect things you have yet to experience at all and let us know how you feel then

It's probably a lost in translation issue, as in I didn't elaborate on it enough, but I have played the game over that period of time. Granted it wasn't at end game and it was all from the start to mid 40's with a handful of classes, but it was enough to see the majority of structural changes to the game and classes over that time. None of them have affected me negatively at all. Even the most recent class changes just seem like streamlining and don't bother me.

People play games for different reasons and I don't imagine I would find too many issues with the game even if I had played nonstop over that time period since I don't prefer group content as my only means for character progression anyways. In fact I'd wager most of the changes have actually made the game more enjoyable for me personally. As long as there is something to do when I'm 95, whether it's deeds or skirmishes or w/e I'm going to be satisfied for a time.

The point being that it's not like I'm some new player to the game or to MMOs in general. My experience is tempered against playing just about every single mainstream MMO over the last decade, including the 'big one' for the entire duration.

[commanderjerkface]

It's probably a lost in translation issue, as in I didn't elaborate on it enough, but I have played the game over that period of time. Granted it wasn't at end game and it was all from the start to mid 40's with a handful of classes, but it was enough to see the majority of structural changes to the game and classes over that time. None of them have affected me negatively at all. Even the most recent class changes just seem like streamlining and don't bother me.

People play games for different reasons and I don't imagine I would find too many issues with the game even if I had played nonstop over that time period since I don't prefer group content as my only means for character progression anyways. In fact I'd wager most of the changes have actually made the game more enjoyable for me personally. As long as there is something to do when I'm 95, whether it's deeds or skirmishes or w/e I'm going to be satisfied for a time.

The point being that it's not like I'm some new player to the game or to MMOs in general. My experience is tempered against playing just about every single mainstream MMO over the last decade, including the 'big one' for the entire duration.

That's good then. I guess you didn't suffer from burnout like a lot of us. I think casual truly is the way to fully enjoy a lot of mmorpgs these days! Happy trails

[Beaniemooch]

@Kittyvicious - I believe his point was that once you get to level cap for a couple years come back and say you're still enjoying it, because the problems people talk about aren't ones you've experienced.

Mirkwood is substantially easier now than it was when it came out. Enedwaith is a shadow of its former self having been downgraded in level. The things you're experiencing for the first time have drastically changed since they were released, or our abilities have drastically changed (no stat caps), or both. You're not having the experience people had when the zone first came out. I'm happy you're enjoying it. As I cruise through the lower zones on alts I can't believe how easy they are compared to when they were new.

[commanderjerkface]

@Kittyvicious - I believe his point was that once you get to level cap for a couple years come back and say you're still enjoying it, because the problems people talk about aren't ones you've experienced.

Mirkwood is substantially easier now than it was when it came out. Enedwaith is a shadow of its former self having been downgraded in level. The things you're experiencing for the first time have drastically changed since they were released, or our abilities have drastically changed (no stat caps), or both. You're not having the experience people had when the zone first came out. I'm happy you're enjoying it. As I cruise through the lower zones on alts I can't believe how easy they are compared to when they were new.

yeah, you're right! i just didn't want to argue/come off as a bitter old man haha

[Kittyvicious]

Mirkwood is substantially easier now than it was when it came out. Enedwaith is a shadow of its former self having been downgraded in level. The things you're experiencing for the first time have drastically changed since they were released, or our abilities have drastically changed (no stat caps), or both. You're not having the experience people had when the zone first came out.

I fail to see how this is negative? I thought the complaints were that the game has gotten worse, not that it has gotten better. Sure I benefit from not having the negative experiences as many of them are fixed, but I also don't think I would have them in the first place.

The most commonly repeated thing I see these days is complaints about the class overhaul and the lack of group content/difficult content. Neither of these things affect me in any way so I don't think my experience would be any different. I would have never been someone in a hardcore kin trying to be on the bleeding edge of content. Been there done that in a game that pretty much sets the standard for that type of fare.

yeah, you're right! i just didn't want to argue/come off as a bitter old man haha

You wouldn't have...I mean most people here sound like everyone for every MMO ever. At risk of sounding like I'm dismissing everyone, it's just the way it is. I have had my ups and downs with games, but ultimately don't have the problems that others have to be honest. Maybe it's the type of player I've evolved into, but it is what it is. The original intention of the post was to show an alternate perspective and to ask people potentially dissatisfied if they can see things differently and maybe they will rekindle their experience with the game.

Ultimately everyone is different, so I understand (to both of you) that people will be disgruntled with their preferred method of playing changes. I don't think your voices are invalid. I just have different desires, expectations, and overall experiences with the game. I come at it from a different angle really. I wasn't always like this, I shifted and developed into this kind of player. Maybe other people would find a similar freedom/revelation if they did something similar? It might help some people, who knows right?

[Beaniemooch]

I fail to see how this is negative? I thought the complaints were that the game has gotten worse, not that it has gotten better. Sure I benefit from not having the negative experiences as many of them are fixed, but I also don't think I would have them in the first place.

Substantially easier doesn't necessarily equate to substantially better. One of the biggest complaints right now is everything is too easy. You're also assuming harder was negative which is also not necessarily true. Now I solo it under level without breaking a sweat and think fondly back to getting wiped with 3 of us when we trained merrevail in the ruins and got stuck in a corner. Now I just gather them up and kill them in groups solo. You may think that's better. I don't.

[Kittyvicious]

You may think that's better. I don't.

Whether you realize it or not, the way you expressed it was negatively since I said I was enjoying it currently and your response was essentially: 'yeah, well you're not having the experience that others had when it came out'. So what you really meant is I'm having less fun than I would have? Or somehow my fun is invalid?

Also, your summation was pretty much what I have already said. Not really sure what you are trying to accomplish here other than attempting to discredit someone who thinks differently than you in order to reinforce your view of the game. Surely that can't be accurate? I mean are you trying to somehow convince me that I'm not actually enjoying the game...that I shouldn't be enjoying the game...that I won't in the future?

If there is a more positive thing you are attempting to do please let me know. I'm sorry that your displeasure with the game has reached the levels that it has. Much like my original post, I hope that one day you can find what it was you loved about the game and see that it is still there... Whether that is experiencing the world around you like it is your first time, shifting your outlook and desires in an MMO, or taking a break and coming back refreshed.

For me LotRO is even better than it was when I started playing 4-5 years ago. I'm glad I get to experience a revitalized version of the game and I'm enjoying it immensely. If this thread hasn't faded to obscurity by the time I hit Rohan and HD content, I'll make sure to come back and express how awesome that content is too. I don't see anything in the repeated complaints or my personal preferences that makes me expect anything different.

[Sapience]

Substantially easier doesn't necessarily equate to substantially better. One of the biggest complaints right now is everything is too easy. You're also assuming harder was negative which is also not necessarily true. Now I solo it under level without breaking a sweat and think fondly back to getting wiped with 3 of us when we trained merrevail in the ruins and got stuck in a corner. Now I just gather them up and kill them in groups solo. You may think that's better. I don't.

The entire problem here is summed up in your last 7 words.

You may think that's better. I don't.

Opinion. For some, the was always too difficult. For others, too easy. Adjustments either way would impact one group or the other and at the end of the day, which way it was adjusted and which way you preferred would mean your last 7 words could be said by either group.

This is why, in any game, balance is a challenge. Because for any group of X players you have a group of Y who feel the opposite.