No Creep Leadership

[PERQ]

I realize before i even write this post it may well be a waste of time but im just that bored im going to write it anyway

In my short time playing this game i have noticed that creeps in pvmp on this server are extremely disorganized, uncoordinated and lack any real leadership since most the raid leaders either left the server or quit the game.

What i want to do is write a tiny basic guide on Leading for newbies to see if i can help out any. and i know im not the best leader out there myself but every little helps right?
If i can help a couple new creeps break the frequent rez camps then im going to try.

These are my own opinions so i know alot will need changed or added so help me out here guys.
They are mostly going to be bullet points of tips i guess.







Extremely Basic Raid Tips:


Target Callers:

Target callers should have a working mic that enables the raid to clearly hear them calling the names of targets. While it is important to make sure all the dps in the raid is focusing your targets it is also vital that you are calling targets that will actually die, I see a lot of target callers picking out wardens that have 3 minstrels behind them healing and never call for someone to CC the minstrel and work on those first.

Another problem would be target callers lack of situational awareness in regards to their healers. The healers job is to keep the raid alive, they cant do that with champs beating on them while no one is helping them out. Have spiders drop webs on your healers to slow whatever is attacking them and focus them down until they at least leave the healer alone and run off if nothing else.

In my experience I find it best to have both a melee and a ranged target assist,
While the melee can be picking out a healer in the back the ranged dps could be keeping focus fire on another healer to keep it from fully healing the other target under fire .

A good target caller will always constantly be switching targets finding both the squishy kills to land quick kills and get them out the way and healers that need taken out in order to get more kills and ultimately wipe the other side or force them to retreat.

Healers:
It is imperative if you are main healing a large raid that you are built for healing and not slotting dps corruptions such as 6 crit ratings. Go for more morale and/or crit defence to minimize both the chance that the dps will target you first for having low morale and the ability to take more damage without being burned down instantly.

Positioning for healers is also very important, don’t be up in the front line getting beat on if you can help it, position yourself so you can hit max targets with you AOE heals whilst being close to the main bulk of the group so you have a crowd protection around you.

Max audacity is also vital, without this you will be CC’d for longer durations and you will take more damage.

Bubbles and rezzes should be talked about before the raid sets out, determine what order you healers will be popping bubbles and rezzes in when the leader calls for them or the situation requires them. There is nothing worse than 2 people blowing their bubble on the same guy and wasting one. Rezzes should not be used just because one person dies, warleader rez can bring up 5 people at once use it carefully to keep the fight going longer.

BLIGHT! Blight is amazing and if you have it, use it! It reduces all freep healing by 75% use it with your -25% outgoing healing debuff to mess up minstrels and healers.

Raid Leaders:

A good raid leader will be constantly moving, helping the raid move around the map finding fights and keeping control over everyone. Keep the raid tightly balled up when moving to eliminate the chance of getting spread out and picked off one by one.

Know the map well and how to use it strategically to your advantage such as flanks in high traffic areas where freep raids move across or through often such as mapping Good lugz and coming behind a freep raid that is camping the peak of lugz hill just as a group of creeps move out from grams. We have maps for a good reason so use them to your advantage.

Make sure all your raid members have voice enabled even if they don’t have a mic, they need to be able to hear both you and the target callers. Also make sure they have the target assist window open and are all able to see the assists targets and select them.

Stay in control of the raid. Don’t let them scatter when you get ambushed, usually the first group to turn tail and run Is the group that wipes.

When pushing or flanking into a freep raid don’t just target whatever is closest for that reason, have your reavers and warleaders and even BA’s push right into and through the group causing them to scatter. Drop fire traps, snares and webs to slow and disorganize them then have spiders fall back to the defilers and make sure they are not being ganked by burgs while still CCing the freep healers and putting out steady DoTs and debuffs on them even if the target assist is on someone different.

Make sure your healers have a pre-detirmed rez and bubble order so when you call it. 5 rezzes don’t go off at once, they are golden and can’t be wasted.

Do not rage at yourself or your raid if you wipe. Discuss what went wrong or went right and learn from it for the next push.

Part of your job is not just to make sure the target callers are picking suitable targets and your raid is targeting with the assist panel, providing the raid with good flanking opportunities and positioning over the opposing raid, its also making sure the healers are not being attacks and calling for the dps to help them out when they are, if your healers die there is a strong chance you will wipe.

Make sure your raid are fulfilling their roles. Spiders not using their CC and trying to fight up in melee range all the time for example or wargs not using their silences to keep healers locked down.

Optimize groups
Example: Don’t hog all the defilers in your own group, spread them across the raid so other groups benefit from AOE heals too. Make sure each group has a ranged dps so if it’s a ranged only target all groups get infamy and not just the group filled with BA’s.

Don’t allow your raid to be rez camped. Map somewhere else immediately and keep the fight going elsewhere, if you are being outnumbered or outmatched use a keep you control to fall back to, that is the only reason they are there.

It is not a good idea to try and pve the whole map red just so you get more infamy or have all the rez circles. Sometimes it is best to let the freeps own certain things as you can use that to your advantage. For example if they own TR rez and you are fighting at TA, you know which direction they will be heading back from, you can set up a flank accordingly.
Pveing the whole map red will kill your infamy more than make it. The freeps will either log, PVE back everything themselves or simply outmatch you by calling in a lot more. Be sensible, fair and have good fights.

Know when NOT to raid. You do not need a raid when you are zerging them in EC you have all the keeps and OPs for example. The object of this game is not to make the other side log off. Troll healing out of group at a rez camp is a huge no no, out of combat rezzing at a rez camp is a huge no no. learn to recognize when a raid is needed and when it is not.

Here are some links that will help you out somehow im sure:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ks-of-Windfola
http://lotroaltfinder.net/
http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...o728-PvMP.html
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...fola-Moors-Map









Well thats my two cents i guess.
I Just want to Enjoy Pvmp while we can in this game so anything i can do to help it be a little bit better im going to try.

I think every saturday we should organize a raid v raid night. So that way people expect it. This way its not a raid running across solos all night and they can counter each other and most importantly new players can experience raiding properly and even learn to lead and get to learn their class roles and not just tag along like usual, spamming skills at anyone thats closest to them.


so..

[PERQ]

[jfindlay]

I agree that there is not much leadership left on this server, hell there isn't much left period. The biggest part of the perpetual "rez camp" is there is a large part of both freep and creep populations that actually enjoy this style of so called "fighting". If they didn't, they wouldn't constantly partake and facilitate them (i.e. taking all of the OPs during a rez camp, etc). There are a few exceptions that will roam the map looking for impromptu 1v1s during these "epic battles". There is also a considerable amount of "players" that only show up for rez camps, I know because I always waited for them and enjoyed drinking in the easy infamy .

Some people have trouble recognizing that just because there are "even" numbers doesn't mean that there is an "even" fight. (perfect example the other day I logged in to say hi to some peeps and there was 5 minis 3 healing at the rez camp not to mention the healing RKs and captains....)

You're also dealing with some of the worst balance issues this game has ever seen.

Vets of the server have tried to change this for years, without success obviously, and have moved on.

Hopefully you can succeed where so many have failed.

~Fin

[tgk8074]

Good luck, leading is tough, but rewarding

[Noldorlord777]

I realize before i even write this post it may well be a waste of time but im just that bored im going to write it anyway

In my short time playing this game i have noticed that creeps in pvmp on this server are extremely disorganized, uncoordinated and lack any real leadership since most the raid leaders either left the server or quit the game.

What i want to do is write a tiny basic guide on Leading for newbies to see if i can help out any. and i know im not the best leader out there myself but every little helps right?
If i can help a couple new creeps break the frequent rez camps then im going to try.

These are my own opinions so i know alot will need changed or added so help me out here guys.
They are mostly going to be bullet points of tips i guess.







Extremely Basic Raid Tips:


Target Callers:

Target callers should have a working mic that enables the raid to clearly hear them calling the names of targets. While it is important to make sure all the dps in the raid is focusing your targets it is also vital that you are calling targets that will actually die, I see a lot of target callers picking out wardens that have 3 minstrels behind them healing and never call for someone to CC the minstrel and work on those first.

Another problem would be target callers lack of situational awareness in regards to their healers. The healers job is to keep the raid alive, they cant do that with champs beating on them while no one is helping them out. Have spiders drop webs on your healers to slow whatever is attacking them and focus them down until they at least leave the healer alone and run off if nothing else.

In my experience I find it best to have both a melee and a ranged target assist,
While the melee can be picking out a healer in the back the ranged dps could be keeping focus fire on another healer to keep it from fully healing the other target under fire .

A good target caller will always constantly be switching targets finding both the squishy kills to land quick kills and get them out the way and healers that need taken out in order to get more kills and ultimately wipe the other side or force them to retreat.

Healers:
It is imperative if you are main healing a large raid that you are built for healing and not slotting dps corruptions such as 6 crit ratings. Go for more morale and/or crit defence to minimize both the chance that the dps will target you first for having low morale and the ability to take more damage without being burned down instantly.

Positioning for healers is also very important, don’t be up in the front line getting beat on if you can help it, position yourself so you can hit max targets with you AOE heals whilst being close to the main bulk of the group so you have a crowd protection around you.

Max audacity is also vital, without this you will be CC’d for longer durations and you will take more damage.

Bubbles and rezzes should be talked about before the raid sets out, determine what order you healers will be popping bubbles and rezzes in when the leader calls for them or the situation requires them. There is nothing worse than 2 people blowing their bubble on the same guy and wasting one. Rezzes should not be used just because one person dies, warleader rez can bring up 5 people at once use it carefully to keep the fight going longer.


Raid Leaders:

A good raid leader will be constantly moving, helping the raid move around the map finding fights and keeping control over everyone. Keep the raid tightly balled up when moving to eliminate the chance of getting spread out and picked off one by one.

Know the map well and how to use it strategically to your advantage such as flanks in high traffic areas where freep raids move across or through often such as mapping Good lugz and coming behind a freep raid that is camping the peak of lugz hill just as a group of creeps move out from grams. We have maps for a good reason so use them to your advantage.

Make sure all your raid members have voice enabled even if they don’t have a mic, they need to be able to hear both you and the target callers. Also make sure they have the target assist window open and are all able to see the assists targets and select them.

Stay in control of the raid. Don’t let them scatter when you get ambushed, usually the first group to turn tail and run Is the group that wipes.

When pushing or flanking into a freep raid don’t just target whatever is closest for that reason, have your reavers and warleaders and even BA’s push right into and through the group causing them to scatter. Drop fire traps, snares and webs to slow and disorganize them then have spiders fall back to the defilers and make sure they are not being ganked by burgs while still CCing the freep healers and putting out steady DoTs and debuffs on them even if the target assist is on someone different.

Make sure your healers have a pre-detirmed rez and bubble order so when you call it. 5 rezzes don’t go off at once, they are golden and can’t be wasted.

Do not rage at yourself or your raid if you wipe. Discuss what went wrong or went right and learn from it for the next push.

Part of your job is not just to make sure the target callers are picking suitable targets and your raid is targeting with the assist panel, providing the raid with good flanking opportunities and positioning over the opposing raid, its also making sure the healers are not being attacks and calling for the dps to help them out when they are, if your healers die there is a strong chance you will wipe.

Make sure your raid are fulfilling their roles. Spiders not using their CC and trying to fight up in melee range all the time for example or wargs not using their silences to keep healers locked down.

Optimize groups
Example: Don’t hog all the defilers in your own group, spread them across the raid so other groups benefit from AOE heals too. Make sure each group has a ranged dps so if it’s a ranged only target all groups get infamy and not just the group filled with BA’s.

Don’t allow your raid to be rez camped. Map somewhere else immediately and keep the fight going elsewhere, if you are being outnumbered or outmatched use a keep you control to fall back to, that is the only reason they are there.

It is not a good idea to try and pve the whole map red just so you get more infamy or have all the rez circles. Sometimes it is best to let the freeps own certain things as you can use that to your advantage. For example if they own TR rez and you are fighting at TA, you know which direction they will be heading back from, you can set up a flank accordingly.
Pveing the whole map red will kill your infamy more than make it. The freeps will either log, PVE back everything themselves or simply outmatch you by calling in a lot more. Be sensible, fair and have good fights.









Well thats my two cents i guess.
I Just want to Enjoy Pvmp while we can in this game so anything i can do to help it be a little bit better im going to try.

I think every saturday we should organize a raid v raid night. So that way people expect it. This way its not a raid running across solos all night and they can counter each other and most importantly new players can experience raiding properly and even learn to lead and get to learn their class roles and not just tag along like usual, spamming skills at anyone thats closest to them.


so..

I must say I agree with all this, but when I have tried to raid lead I find that many, especially on this server refuse to listen to orders and don't even follow the target assist. I dislike leading because of this; I only lead when I have to, and I have no mic, so that is another reason why I normally don't. Most of the good players have quit or left as you said before, and it will be quite hard to "reteach" the lowbies of the server how to "raid up" properly, as seen that they normally raid up blindly whatever the situation.

An example of this was when I was in a group yesterday with Crum, Sauercraut, Bugud and 2 others. We followed target assists perfectly, and Crum was healing like a boss, but the other 2, (of whom I shall not name) were constantly divided from our main group, and were getting killed and feeding the freeps.. They perceived the problem to be "Not enough ppl" and the solution to "raid up", they were both constantly telling us to raid up in group chat. When the other 2 logged, we formed a group of 4, and rolled the freeps much easier than we had done a few minutes ago.

[PERQ]

Learn your way around the Delving:

[Dodheril]

An example of this was when I was in a group yesterday with Crum, Sauercraut, Bugud and 2 others. We followed target assists perfectly, and Crum was healing like a boss, but the other 2, (of whom I shall not name) were constantly divided from our main group, and were getting killed and feeding the freeps.. They perceived the problem to be "Not enough ppl" and the solution to "raid up", they were both constantly telling us to raid up in group chat. When the other 2 logged, we formed a group of 4, and rolled the freeps much easier than we had done a few minutes ago.

*Slowly raises hand* I believe I was one of the 2 people you were with and I apologize, I have really bad connection where I live which causes major lag, but enough of excuses.

I think another problem is many people don't know how to play their class in a raid setting, even if we have a good raid leader or a decent one. For example, I see many Warleaders who act like Reavers and try to be a DPS class instead of staying back and healing, I'm not saying ALL Warleaders do that, but there have been times when it has happened. Even though a big issue is the leading, it would help the leaders if creeps new how to play their classes in a raid.

Maybe if some of the older players would let the noobs know what they were doing wrong, and how to improve their play, then we would get somewhere.

[Sambelina]

As someone new to the Moors (only been playing there for about a month - but almost every day now - and loving it) I found this post really helpful THANKS.. lots to learn but I'm having fun being hammered by you out there Crum Have to say I am learning lots more about my character too and it will only get better when experienced people share your "wisdom" lol as then noobs like me will get better. Haha you even made me post here rather than just lurk occasionally! I just wish that us Aussies were not so out of time with you guys lol!

[tgk8074]

As someone new to the Moors (only been playing there for about a month - but almost every day now - and loving it) I found this post really helpful THANKS.. lots to learn but I'm having fun being hammered by you out there Crum Have to say I am learning lots more about my character too and it will only get better when experienced people share your "wisdom" lol as then noobs like me will get better. Haha you even made me post here rather than just lurk occasionally! I just wish that us Aussies were not so out of time with you guys lol!

You'd be surprised..we used to have a lot of great fights with aussies, especially with the late night (EST) crowd that used to be around. Ahhh..good times

[Sambelina]

You'd be surprised..we used to have a lot of great fights with aussies, especially with the late night (EST) crowd that used to be around. Ahhh..good times

Yup.. just have to stay up late here to do so There's a few of us about

Oh and yeah.. Just got killed by Crum again LOL ... but a fun fight in/ outside TR that went longer this time

[MuyLinda]

[QUOTE=Sambelina;6848171]Yup.. just have to stay up late here to do so There's a few of us about

Aussies are so over rated but they make awesome baits lolz Samm should know

[kabarman555]

In my years of playing this game and pvping I have noticed that leaders are simply natural at it. I do not like leading, I think it sucks to have to do most of the time. I'm good at it though and when I do it its because im mad or just tired of suckage.

Most people prefer just to follow, thats not a bad thing and I think you can get teh most out of this game by doing so. You can focus on what you are doing and whats going on around you rather than worrying about the entire group.

As a leader you have to display dominance, direction, and provide entertainment for your group. You dont need to win to do this, you just have to hold your groups attention to achieve your objective. If people are bored or they dont listen to you chances are they will either leave or you will be ineffective as a leader.

Calling targets and moving come second to that. So you gotta be bossy but funny and aggressive. Hold your groups attention, keep them on a short leash and depend on others to assist you, then decide where you will strike. Dont go for the head on. Make the enemy think you are weak, trick them, lead them apart, strike their flank, rout them, and take advantage of any weakness.

There is no honor system in this game, its kill or be killed.

If your leading that is. Which is why I dont like it. Most of the time I just want to have fun, I dont want to think that way and I dont want to have to babysit a bunch of temperamental creeps that expect me to keep them full and happy. So I guess the downside to leading is not really the skill set involved its the people you have to lead.

I'm rambling....merrr.

[MuyLinda]

In my years of playing this game and pvping I have noticed that leaders are simply natural at it. I do not like leading, I think it sucks to have to do most of the time. I'm good at it though and when I do it its because im mad or just tired of suckage.

Most people prefer just to follow, thats not a bad thing and I think you can get teh most out of this game by doing so. You can focus on what you are doing and whats going on around you rather than worrying about the entire group.

As a leader you have to display dominance, direction, and provide entertainment for your group. You dont need to win to do this, you just have to hold your groups attention to achieve your objective. If people are bored or they dont listen to you chances are they will either leave or you will be ineffective as a leader.

Calling targets and moving come second to that. So you gotta be bossy but funny and aggressive. Hold your groups attention, keep them on a short leash and depend on others to assist you, then decide where you will strike. Dont go for the head on. Make the enemy think you are weak, trick them, lead them apart, strike their flank, rout them, and take advantage of any weakness.

There is no honor system in this game, its kill or be killed.

If your leading that is. Which is why I dont like it. Most of the time I just want to have fun, I dont want to think that way and I dont want to have to babysit a bunch of temperamental creeps that expect me to keep them full and happy. So I guess the downside to leading is not really the skill set involved its the people you have to lead.

I'm rambling....merrr.

Not rambling....and I think alot of the freep side peeps would agree on this same matter. Well put

[Alisre]

In my years of playing this game and pvping I have noticed that leaders are simply natural at it. I do not like leading, I think it sucks to have to do most of the time. I'm good at it though and when I do it its because im mad or just tired of suckage.

Most people prefer just to follow, thats not a bad thing and I think you can get teh most out of this game by doing so. You can focus on what you are doing and whats going on around you rather than worrying about the entire group.

As a leader you have to display dominance, direction, and provide entertainment for your group. You dont need to win to do this, you just have to hold your groups attention to achieve your objective. If people are bored or they dont listen to you chances are they will either leave or you will be ineffective as a leader.

Calling targets and moving come second to that. So you gotta be bossy but funny and aggressive. Hold your groups attention, keep them on a short leash and depend on others to assist you, then decide where you will strike. Dont go for the head on. Make the enemy think you are weak, trick them, lead them apart, strike their flank, rout them, and take advantage of any weakness.

There is no honor system in this game, its kill or be killed.

If your leading that is. Which is why I dont like it. Most of the time I just want to have fun, I dont want to think that way and I dont want to have to babysit a bunch of temperamental creeps that expect me to keep them full and happy. So I guess the downside to leading is not really the skill set involved its the people you have to lead.

I'm rambling....merrr.

I am in agreement with old man cuba here, leading while I think can be taught, is something that will come naturally in time. A lot from the example and influence of others. I'll pop my head in every now and then to see how things be going down.

Don't make me lead a raid.......... ./vanish

[tgk8074]

I am in agreement with old man cuba here, leading while I think can be taught, is something that will come naturally in time. A lot from the example and influence of others. I'll pop my head in every now and then to see how things be going down.

Don't make me lead a raid.......... ./vanish

*passes lead to Arga* Follow the Bleeping Sun!

[RodhinKinning]

I'm too mean to lead.

[tgk8074]

I'm too mean to lead.

Sometimes ;-)

[Alisre]

Come out tonight freeps and creeps alike, and lets have some fun

[MuyLinda]

Nice to see you back Arga It was fun last night

[DarvaI]

Lol this is so redundant now looking back through the forums.

[Roddrildun]

Lol this is so redundant now looking back through the forums.

Nobody loves you.

Edit: Except Catrat...I heard there's some wicked crushing going on there.

[DarvaI]

Nobody loves you.

Edit: Except Catrat...I heard there's some wicked crushing going on there.

Cant blame the guy, he is only human

[wraggla]

I was unsure at first but after you sent me this... i couldn't control myself

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...ed=0CBQQsCUoBg

[DarvaI]

I was unsure at first but after you sent me this... i couldn't control myself

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...ed=0CBQQsCUoBg

I'm a dirty girl

[zjzach21]

Just gold tag a hood raid and map grothum now and then to find dgarye