Hobbits to Isengard - Q/A with Sapience notes on what was said

[Thruili]

I translated this using Google because my German is embarrassingly rusty.

I translated the sentence as well because reading Google translations tends do be quite an adventure:

That should clear up most of the questions for now. A few things he does not know yet, they probably still have not even set a price and they also do not want to tell everything immediately. And the sentence "It's too early" tells me individually that they are planning to bring out the class at some point between the end of October and mid-December rather than in 2-3 months, so there is enough time and manpower for balancing.

[Robeauch]

1. How do you feel about server merges
   They don’t talk about them, haven’t talked about them, aren’t planning on them, don’t believe they are needed.

While it's been made clear, frequently, that mergers are not in the offing, I've never seen any discussion of the reason. I guess I assumed that, despite the obvious need for merges, there was some business or economic reason they would not be done. (In the back of my mind, I wondered if Turbine was trying to make money off of character transfers.)

So, this is the first mention I've seen of the reason for not having merges, which is: The devs don't believe they are needed.

Now, it's tempting to play the "I and everyone I know thinks merges are needed" card, but I and everyone I know aren't necessarily a representative sample of the player base. (I'm on Firefoot. The entire server wouldn't constitute a representative sample of the player base.)

So let me phrase my comment in the form of a question. What would a "need for a merge" look like, if it does not look like the current situation on the smaller servers?

[Sapience]

... I've never seen any discussion of the reason.

That's easy. Because they are not needed. If the data said they were, then the discussion might change. At this time, there is no need for them.

[Angadan]

While it's been made clear, frequently, that mergers are not in the offing, I've never seen any discussion of the reason. I guess I assumed that, despite the obvious need for merges, there was some business or economic reason they would not be done. (In the back of my mind, I wondered if Turbine was trying to make money off of character transfers.)

So, this is the first mention I've seen of the reason for not having merges, which is: The devs don't believe they are needed.

Now, it's tempting to play the "I and everyone I know thinks merges are needed" card, but I and everyone I know aren't necessarily a representative sample of the player base. (I'm on Firefoot. The entire server wouldn't constitute a representative sample of the player base.)

So let me phrase my comment in the form of a question. What would a "need for a merge" look like, if it does not look like the current situation on the smaller servers?

Seems to me there are only two possible reasons to merge worlds:

(1) Game Company benefit -- lower operating costs by requiring fewer machines to run to handle the population.

(2) Player benefit -- consolidate populations so players feel they're part of a vibrant community and are able to undertake group activities.


And neither of these reasons seems to exist with Turbine/LOTRO:

(1) is solved already because Turbine can, any time it wants, shift a world (say, Firefoot) to different machines, in effect consolidating the work load and reducing the hardware requirement. They don't have to "merge servers" to do that, because the worlds aren't technically each on a separate server to begin with.

(2) is solved already because players can 'vote with their feet' (and their wallets) by purchasing a world transfer any time they like. So no pressure at all for Turbine to do it for them (or "to" them, depending on the players' various perspectives).


In short, the way Turbine has things set up, 'server merge' in the sense of many other MMOs is just kind of nonsensical. At least, that's how I've come to understand things.

[frickinmuck]

Please note: I am paraphrasing here. Anything said here is coming through my interpretation of what was said, and is subject to being corrected, so don't take all this as the final word.

If anyone who was present has any additions or corrections, feel free to post.

Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Vanyar

1. Will Update 13 be sold as a separate quest pack (free to VIPs) or included as part of the Helm's Deep expansion purchase
   It is included as part of Helm's Deep. If you purchased Helm's Deep, this is all free for you. If you purchased Helm's Deep it's free. If you haven't, it's not. Account status irrelevant. If you own Helm's Deep this is free. Because it continues the epic story. You can't start the epic story of Update 13 unless you've completed all the books from Helm's Deep, and it really does wrap up the rest of that day's events. If you remember, the breaking of Isengard actually took place while we were all at Helm's Deep, so you're sort of going back in time a little bit.
2. But what about Kate's letter saying the new content would be free for VIP
   You're going to get the mail changes, you're going to get the scaling in the Ettenmoors, you'll be able to buy the access tokens for the Ettenmoors, regardless of if you own Helm's Deep, that's all just going to come, period. Those are enhancements to the game. The mail features you'll get the 10 slots, if you're VIP you'll get the ability to open it anywhere. Also, if you own currently the North Downs, for example, which is being revamped, the revamp is included. You already own the North Downs, you'll get all the changes for free. And that goes to all the zones that are being revamped in U13.
3. What is your favourite class aesthetically
   Lore-masters
4. Can you tell us more about the Huorn pets
   There are 3 of them. You can get them via content/gameplay. They are a cosmetic pet.
5. When will the Update 13 preview stream be happening
   The preview livestream will be happening April 3rd, 1pm eastern – he will be posting about that in the forums soon
6. Is there a possibility other cosmetic pets might be added later
   It’s possible. They will see how these ones work first, and then look into other options if it makes sense.
7. Any update on the *wink wink nudge nudge* April Fools Day thingamajig
   There just isn’t time to implement it the way it would need to be, so no, not happening.
8. When U13 goes live will the Huorn replace the shirtless dwarf as the good luck charm of the run
   It would be cool to see, and would make a heck of a screenshot, but would likely add to the lag a lot if a lot of people had those pets out.
9. Speculation on Huorn pet requiring horseshoe to get
   No, you don’t need the horseshoe to get the Huorn pet. Clarification regarding the horseshoe – when he said that devs might add to the effects down the road, that also means they might not.
10. What does the horseshoe do
    Everything that they’ve said it does in the past, and virtually nothing the players think it does
11. Is there any talk of updating the NPC character models
    No talk that he is aware of
12. Will this event be held regularly
    Last week he started thinking about it and thinks we should do something like this at least once a year across all the servers. It takes awhile to get to all 29 servers, but he thinks we can do something of this scale and scope at least once a year.
13. Was Bounders Bounty inspired by or addressed by the Players Council
    The team had an idea for a server-wide contest, something that would be a server-wide unlock, that they might be able to tweak and re-use in the future. They took it to the Player’s Council for feedback and input, and the Council helped to refine the concept.
14. Conversation about servers that get the best time
    It’s always the servers who work together, who don’t try to ruin other people’s good time by showing up on mounts with cloaks, etc.
15. Can we get more information on the new class
    No. Sorry.
16. Is Sapience your real name
    No, it’s Rick. But he thinks it would be cool if it was.
17. Is there a practical benefit to multiple users filing a report about a problem, or do multiple reports just clog the system
    One thing he’s never going to tell people to do is to spam the system – that’s actually a violation and just gives the GMs more tickets to close. They strongly discourage people from entering multiple reports, even if the reports are coming from different people. If everyone is trying to achieve the same result, one report will do. More reports just create extra work for the GMs and add to the time taken to correct the issue. This goes for raids where something bugs out – if it’s one raid, then only one report is needed. Otherwise you are pulling in multiple GMs to handle a one GM issue.
18. Are you even remotely keeping up with the PC apps/nominations
    Barely. Applications are slightly ahead of last year’s average. He’s trying to sort them as he gets them, instead of letting them pile up like last year (nominations in one pile, new applications in another, re-applications in another and so on), and that makes it a bit harder for him to keep track of how many are coming in. He will get the most work on it done while he’s on vacation, because that’s the only time he will get enough time in one day to focus on it and read through them. Just sit on a back porch, watch the waves and read through some applications.
    EP Aaron Campbell joins the chat
19. Aaron confirms the release date for U13 will be April 14.
20. How do we get our new cosmetic pets
    Aaron – It’s all about gameplay right now. They are rolling them out in pieces. Some of them are coming out now, others will be coming later. None are intended for the store at this point, they are intended for quest rewards and gameplay rewards. They may add bonuses and bundles later to the store, but not in the short term.
21. Can you reveal anything about when Hobnanigans will return
    Aaron – They’ve been testing it with U13, so Soon™.
22. Will there eventually be 4 Huorn pets so we can have one for each season
    Aaron – No he doesn’t think so, but he is excited about a particular idea for early April
    Sapience – Wasn’t really sure about whether they’d have anything for April Fool’s Day because they were in a crunch but the Art Director sent something over to him and he thinks there’s going to be some fun early next week.
23. Is there anything different about the 3 huorns besides color
    Sapience – No, the only difference is their appearance, although he’s seen all 3 and they are different enough that you will want all 3 of them.
24. Are there any plans for updates to characters such as hairstyles, appearances at the barber
    Aaron – They are talking a lot about small, subtle ways that they can improve the avatar as a whole, and they want to do that in a balanced way because they know people are really connected to their characters. He’d love to see more hairstyles and more options as they work through that.
25. Is flooded Isengard available through session play only, or are there other opportunities to go through it as just a zone
    Aaron – There are other ways to experience it. You will be able to quest there, primarily from quests you get from Quickbeam. and those quests will lead you on to Fanghorn. They are dealing with the challenge that the Breaking of Isengard happens at the same time as the Battle of the Hornburg, so if you are at Helm’s Deep you can’t exactly be at Isengard. So that part of the story is told as a story, via session play.
    Sapience – Thinks that’s a good point, with the Battle of the Hornburg and the Breaking of Isengard happening simultaneously there is a bit of “now we’re going to go over here but it’s the same day” trickery going on.

On April 3rd 1PM they will be doing the same preview run through Update 13 for us via livestream that they are doing for the press today.

[Sapience]

Please note: I am paraphrasing here. Anything said here is coming through my interpretation of what was said, and is subject to being corrected, so don't take all this as the final word.

If anyone who was present has any additions or corrections, feel free to post.

Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Vanyar

1. Will Update 13 be sold as a separate quest pack (free to VIPs) or included as part of the Helm's Deep expansion purchase
   There are a few levels of access to the content with U13, so I will outline that access to the best of my ability based on Sapience’s answer to the question:
   
   • The new end game content that comes with U13 will require HD, regardless of account status. You need to have completed the epic that comes with HD to continue on with the next part of the story.
   • If you already own the zones being revamped (Misty Mountains, North Downs, Trollshaws), you will get those revamps, regardless of whether you have HD and regardless of account status.
   • Everyone will get access to the rest of the content, although you will need to be VIP to access the ability to open mail without having to be at a mailbox.
   
   
2. What is your favourite class aesthetically
   Lore-masters
3. Can you tell us more about the Huorn pets
   There are 3 of them. You can get them via content/gameplay. They are a cosmetic pet.
4. When will the Update 13 preview stream be happening
   The preview livestream will be happening April 3rd, 1pm eastern – he will be posting about that in the forums soon
5. Is there a possibility other cosmetic pets might be added later
   It’s possible. They will see how these ones work first, and then look into other options if it makes sense.
6. Any update on the *wink wink nudge nudge* April Fools Day thingamajig
   There just isn’t time to implement it the way it would need to be, so no, not happening.
7. When U13 goes live will the Huorn replace the shirtless dwarf as the good luck charm of the run
   It would be cool to see, and would make a heck of a screenshot, but would likely add to the lag a lot if a lot of people had those pets out.
8. Speculation on Huorn pet requiring horseshoe to get
   No, you don’t need the horseshoe to get the Huorn pet. Clarification regarding the horseshoe – when he said that devs might add to the effects down the road, that also means they might not.
9. What does the horseshoe do
   Everything that they’ve said it does in the past, and virtually nothing the players think it does
10. Is there any talk of updating the NPC character models
    No talk that he is aware of
11. Will this event be held regularly
    Last week he started thinking about it and thinks we should do something like this at least once a year across all the servers. It takes awhile to get to all 29 servers, but he thinks we can do something of this scale and scope at least once a year.
12. Was Bounders Bounty inspired by or addressed by the Players Council
    The team had an idea for a server-wide contest, something that would be a server-wide unlock, that they might be able to tweak and re-use in the future. They took it to the Player’s Council for feedback and input, and the Council helped to refine the concept.
13. Conversation about servers that get the best time
    It’s always the servers who work together, who don’t try to ruin other people’s good time by showing up on mounts with cloaks, etc.
14. Can we get more information on the new class
    No. Sorry.
15. Is Sapience your real name
    No, it’s Rick. But he thinks it would be cool if it was.
16. Is there a practical benefit to multiple users filing a report about a problem, or do multiple reports just clog the system
    One thing he’s never going to tell people to do is to spam the system – that’s actually a violation and just gives the GMs more tickets to close. They strongly discourage people from entering multiple reports, even if the reports are coming from different people. If everyone is trying to achieve the same result, one report will do. More reports just create extra work for the GMs and add to the time taken to correct the issue. This goes for raids where something bugs out – if it’s one raid, then only one report is needed. Otherwise you are pulling in multiple GMs to handle a one GM issue.
17. Are you even remotely keeping up with the PC apps/nominations
    Barely. Applications are slightly ahead of last year’s average. He’s trying to sort them as he gets them, instead of letting them pile up like last year (nominations in one pile, new applications in another, re-applications in another and so on), and that makes it a bit harder for him to keep track of how many are coming in. He will get the most work on it done while he’s on vacation, because that’s the only time he will get enough time in one day to focus on it and read through them. Just sit on a back porch, watch the waves and read through some applications.
    EP Aaron Campbell joins the chat
18. Aaron confirms the release date for U13 will be April 14.
19. How do we get our new cosmetic pets
    Aaron – It’s all about gameplay right now. They are rolling them out in pieces. Some of them are coming out now, others will be coming later. None are intended for the store at this point, they are intended for quest rewards and gameplay rewards. They may add bonuses and bundles later to the store, but not in the short term.
20. Can you reveal anything about when Hobnanigans will return
    Aaron – They’ve been testing it with U13, so Soon™.
21. Will there eventually be 4 Huorn pets so we can have one for each season
    Aaron – No he doesn’t think so, but he is excited about a particular idea for early April
    Sapience – Wasn’t really sure about whether they’d have anything for April Fool’s Day because they were in a crunch but the Art Director sent something over to him and he thinks there’s going to be some fun early next week.
22. Is there anything different about the 3 huorns besides color
    Sapience – No, the only difference is their appearance, although he’s seen all 3 and they are different enough that you will want all 3 of them.
23. Are there any plans for updates to characters such as hairstyles, appearances at the barber
    Aaron – They are talking a lot about small, subtle ways that they can improve the avatar as a whole, and they want to do that in a balanced way because they know people are really connected to their characters. He’d love to see more hairstyles and more options as they work through that.
24. Is flooded Isengard available through session play only, or are there other opportunities to go through it as just a zone
    Aaron – There are other ways to experience it. You will be able to quest there, primarily from quests you get from Quickbeam. and those quests will lead you on to Fanghorn. They are dealing with the challenge that the Breaking of Isengard happens at the same time as the Battle of the Hornburg, so if you are at Helm’s Deep you can’t exactly be at Isengard. So that part of the story is told as a story, via session play.
    Sapience – Thinks that’s a good point, with the Battle of the Hornburg and the Breaking of Isengard happening simultaneously there is a bit of “now we’re going to go over here but it’s the same day” trickery going on.

On April 3rd 1PM they will be doing the same preview run through Update 13 for us via livestream that they are doing for the press today.

I just wanted to clarify the first point a little bit. Content wise, for Update 13, you'll need to have purchased Helm's Deep. For things that are updates and changes, like the new inventory system, ability to send 10 items through mail, region revamps, class balance changes, level scaling freeps in the Ettenmoors, other Ettenmoors changes, uncapping Tasks, etc. ; those will all be free for everyone regardless of your subscription status.

The caveat on that is the quests and content in the revamped areas will still require that you've either purchased it previously or are currently VIP. Those areas aren't being made free with this update. Any other changes that aren't content related will be available to everyone in those areas.

[Mar-Evayave]

I just wanted to clarify the first point a little bit. Content wise, for Update 13, you'll need to have purchased Helm's Deep. For things that are updates and changes, like the new inventory system, ability to send 10 items through mail, region revamps, class balance changes, level scaling freeps in the Ettenmoors, other Ettenmoors changes, uncapping Tasks, etc. ; those will all be free for everyone regardless of your subscription status.

The caveat on that is the quests and content in the revamped areas will still require that you've either purchased it previously or are currently VIP. Those areas aren't being made free with this update. Any other changes that aren't content related will be available to everyone in those areas.

Erm... whaaa?

More Content, More Often – Free for VIP.
In the past we’ve focused on yearly expansion packs that brought big changes and lots of new content at the end of the year coupled with smaller updates throughout the year and a new region in the spring. In 2014 we’re going to focus on a steady flow of content throughout the year. We’re planning on adding new content on a quarterly basis in 2014. Players have expressed a desire to explore a bit deeper into Fangorn Forest and to see Isengard flooded in the battle with the Ents. Both of these are slated for our first quarterly update in March.
Later in the year we’ll be seeing more iconic locales and moments from the lore including the Paths of the Dead and the Dead Marshes. We will also take our first steps in Gondor!
If you’re a VIP, these regions and content will all be free with your subscription.

Which is it? Obviously it's been delayed a few weeks (April 14 instead of March), but to tell everyone that the new content is free to VIPs (implying a standard purchase for the quest pack for Premiums and F2Pers, as it has always been with non-expansion quest packs) and then to make a 180* and say the exact opposite... Well, I'm not really sure what to say here. -.- I'm VIP and I own HD, but it tends to get under my skin when I encounter false advertising.

[Eldarian_Grace]

Erm... whaaa?



Which is it? Obviously it's been delayed a few weeks (April 14 instead of March), but to tell everyone that the new content is free to VIPs (implying a standard purchase for the quest pack for Premiums and F2Pers, as it has always been with non-expansion quest packs) and then to make a 180* and say the exact opposite... Well, I'm not really sure what to say here. -.- I'm VIP and I own HD, but it tends to get under my skin when I encounter false advertising.

uh huh at this point im not sure if my HD purchase means as a premium player I have the flooded isenguard stuff, or whether i need to TP buy it. muchos confused. I was previously expecting to have to buy it and questioning whether i would bother, since wildermore didn't tempt me either.

Clarification would be appreciated.

[Nuelenion]

Erm... whaaa?



Which is it? Obviously it's been delayed a few weeks (April 14 instead of March), but to tell everyone that the new content is free to VIPs (implying a standard purchase for the quest pack for Premiums and F2Pers, as it has always been with non-expansion quest packs) and then to make a 180* and say the exact opposite... Well, I'm not really sure what to say here. -.- I'm VIP and I own HD, but it tends to get under my skin when I encounter false advertising.

...

How would you get there without HD? You wouldn't be a high enough level, would you?

Anyway, all this was clarified right up there.

"The new end game content that comes with U13 will require HD, regardless of account status. You need to have completed the epic that comes with HD to continue on with the next part of the story.
If you already own the zones being revamped (Misty Mountains, North Downs, Trollshaws), you will get those revamps, regardless of whether you have HD and regardless of account status.
Everyone will get access to the rest of the content, although you will need to be VIP to access the ability to open mail without having to be at a mailbox."

[Crell_1]

uh huh at this point im not sure if my HD purchase means as a premium player I have the flooded isenguard stuff, or whether i need to TP buy it. muchos confused. I was previously expecting to have to buy it and questioning whether i would bother, since wildermore didn't tempt me either.

Clarification would be appreciated.

If you have PURCHASED Helms Deep in by any METHOD (CASH/TP/etc!) (it's only available as a bundle), you get all the U13 CONTENT included 'at no additional charge'!

Short of rewatching the stream to quote +Sapience verbatim, I don't know how much clearer I could be. My statement might even be clearer to some folk.

...

How would you get there without HD? You wouldn't be a high enough level, would you?

There are any number of ways to reach L95 without buying or playing HD. Including but not limited to: Skirms, Landscape mob killing, Scaled Instances. Come U13 you'll also have the PvMP as an option.

[Nuelenion]

There are any number of ways to reach L95 without buying or playing HD. Including but not limited to: Skirms, Landscape mob killing, Scaled Instances. Come U13 you'll also have the PvMP as an option.

Oh, I'd just assumed the level cap increase was tied to the expansion. All kinds of confusion being cleared up in here today.

[Gardhik]

It's free for those who bought HD because... U13 should have been in U12 in the first place. I mean ... crafting instance ? LI scrolls ? All things that were there in ROR in the first place.

[frickinmuck]

Short of rewatching the stream to quote +Sapience verbatim, I don't know how much clearer I could be. My statement might even be clearer to some folk.

Yeah, I'm seeing now that my summary may need some tweaking. Here is the conversation verbatim, FYI:

Question: "Will The Breaking of Isengard U13 be sold as a separate quest pack, free to VIPs or is it included as part of Helm's Deep expansion purchase?"

Sapience: "It is included as part of Helm's Deep. If you purchased Helm's Deep, this is all free for you."

Sapience: "Clarify again - if you purchased Helm's Deep it's free. If you haven't, it's not. Account status irrelevant. If you own Helm's Deep this is free. Because it continues the epic story. You can't start the epic story of Update 13 unless you've completed all the books from Helm's Deep, and it really does wrap up the rest of that day's events. If you remember, the breaking of Isengard actually took place while we were all at Helm's Deep, so you're sort of going back in time a little bit.

Question: was something along the lines of 'But what about Kate's letter saying the new content would be free for VIP?' (it wasn't repeated in the stream but I recall it, since I was the one who asked it)

Sapience "Yeah, that's a good point to clarify. You're going to get the mail changes, you're going to get the scaling in the Ettenmoors, you'll be able to buy the access tokens for the Ettenmoors, regardless of if you own Helm's Deep, that's all just going to come, period. Those are enhancements to the game. The mail features you'll get the 10 slots, if you're VIP you'll get the ability to open it anywhere. And I'll restate this because we had the question last week and I thought it was a really good question - if you own currently the North Downs, for example, which is being revamped, the revamp is included. You already own the North Downs, you'll get all the changes for free. And that goes to all the zones that are being revamped in U13."

[Mar-Evayave]

How would you get there without HD? You wouldn't be a high enough level, would you?

Yeah, as Crell mentioned, the level cap is not tied into the expansions anymore, which is a really great thing. That's one reason I hate SWTOR and games like it.

Anyway, all this was clarified right up there.

Not really. It could (hopefully) be a reference to the Epic line. But in the event that what you said was true, then again -- false advertising. Never a good thing to do.

Yeah, I'm seeing now that my summary may need some tweaking. Here is the conversation verbatim, FYI:

Question: "Will The Breaking of Isengard U13 be sold as a separate quest pack, free to VIPs or is it included as part of Helm's Deep expansion purchase?"

Sapience: "It is included as part of Helm's Deep. If you purchased Helm's Deep, this is all free for you."

Sapience: "Clarify again - if you purchased Helm's Deep it's free. If you haven't, it's not. Account status irrelevant. If you own Helm's Deep this is free. Because it continues the epic story. You can't start the epic story of Update 13 unless you've completed all the books from Helm's Deep, and it really does wrap up the rest of that day's events. If you remember, the breaking of Isengard actually took place while we were all at Helm's Deep, so you're sort of going back in time a little bit.

Question: was something along the lines of 'But what about Kate's letter saying the new content would be free for VIP?' (it wasn't repeated in the stream but I recall it, since I was the one who asked it)

Sapience "Yeah, that's a good point to clarify. You're going to get the mail changes, you're going to get the scaling in the Ettenmoors, you'll be able to buy the access tokens for the Ettenmoors, regardless of if you own Helm's Deep, that's all just going to come, period. Those are enhancements to the game. The mail features you'll get the 10 slots, if you're VIP you'll get the ability to open it anywhere. And I'll restate this because we had the question last week and I thought it was a really good question - if you own currently the North Downs, for example, which is being revamped, the revamp is included. You already own the North Downs, you'll get all the changes for free. And that goes to all the zones that are being revamped in U13."

That still seems incredibly vague, and I'll explain the points I'm referring to.

No word at all was made of Fangorn Forest. Isengard this, Isengard that, yadda yadda yadda. We have known for a while that the final book of Volume III would require the HD xpac (a continuation of the previous few books of that xpac).

So, is all of this Breaking of Isengard talk referring to just the Flooded Isengard (Epics) or also to Fangorn (quest pack). I'd really like to hear some clarification. If It speaks to both, then I'd really like to say that false advertising is really low. It was stated months ago by the then-Executive Producer that the quarterly quest packs would be free to VIP. And that none of them would require purchase of any expansion. So again, Sapience, is this a case of misunderstanding or vague wording in the recent Hobbits run, or is this a case of false advertising?

More Content, More Often – Free for VIP.
In the past we’ve focused on yearly expansion packs that brought big changes and lots of new content at the end of the year coupled with smaller updates throughout the year and a new region in the spring. In 2014 we’re going to focus on a steady flow of content throughout the year. We’re planning on adding new content on a quarterly basis in 2014. Players have expressed a desire to explore a bit deeper into Fangorn Forest and to see Isengard flooded in the battle with the Ents. Both of these are slated for our first quarterly update in March.
Later in the year we’ll be seeing more iconic locales and moments from the lore including the Paths of the Dead and the Dead Marshes. We will also take our first steps in Gondor!
If you’re a VIP, these regions and content will all be free with your subscription.

And as a disclaimer: I am disturbed by this not for personal gain but for the principle of the matter. I stand to lose if this is free to VIPs. I am a VIP and I already own HD. If indeed Fangorn is free to VIP and not tied into the xpac, then someday, if I drop my sub, I'll have to buy it if I want to play it (and I will). But if it's truly tied into the xpac and has nothing to do with account status, then I already own it for the lifetime of this game because I already own the xpac. So again, I stand to lose if this is free to VIPs, but I still want it to be free to VIPs. I'm a bit tired of having all the recent content tied into the xpac with no wiggle room for others, and I really do not like false advertising.

[Orodbril]

Yeah, as Crell mentioned, the level cap is not tied into the expansions anymore, which is a really great thing. That's one reason I hate SWTOR and games like it.



Not really. It could (hopefully) be a reference to the Epic line. But in the event that what you said was true, then again -- false advertising. Never a good thing to do.



That still seems incredibly vague, and I'll explain the points I'm referring to.

No word at all was made of Fangorn Forest. Isengard this, Isengard that, yadda yadda yadda. We have known for a while that the final book of Volume III would require the HD xpac (a continuation of the previous few books of that xpac).

So, is all of this Breaking of Isengard talk referring to just the Flooded Isengard (Epics) or also to Fangorn (quest pack). I'd really like to hear some clarification. If It speaks to both, then I'd really like to say that false advertising is really low. It was stated months ago by the then-Executive Producer that the quarterly quest packs would be free to VIP. And that none of them would require purchase of any expansion. So again, Sapience, is this a case of misunderstanding or vague wording in the recent Hobbits run, or is this a case of false advertising?



And as a disclaimer: I am disturbed by this not for personal gain but for the principle of the matter. I stand to lose if this is free to VIPs. I am a VIP and I already own HD. If indeed Fangorn is free to VIP and not tied into the xpac, then someday, if I drop my sub, I'll have to buy it if I want to play it (and I will). But if it's truly tied into the xpac and has nothing to do with account status, then I already own it for the lifetime of this game because I already own the xpac. So again, I stand to lose if this is free to VIPs, but I still want it to be free to VIPs. I'm a bit tired of having all the recent content tied into the xpac with no wiggle room for others, and I really do not like false advertising.

Breaking of Isengard is the name of Update 13 and therefore Breaking of Isengard refers to Flooded Isengard AND to Fangorn as they're both a part of U13. And Flooded Isengard is an own (relatively small) region which also has normal quests, not only Epics, without them you couldn't come to Fangorn.
Was that a clarification or are there still open questions? Maybe Sapience should explain it again with a final comment.

[Mar-Evayave]

Breaking of Isengard is the name of Update 13 and therefore Breaking of Isengard refers to Flooded Isengard AND to Fangorn as they're both a part of U13. And Flooded Isengard is an own (relatively small) region which also has normal quests, not only Epics, without them you couldn't come to Fangorn.
Was that a clarification or are there still open questions? Maybe Sapience should explain it again with a final comment.

So it was false advertising. -.-

[Namesse]

So it was false advertising. -.-

Agreed.

They're also saying by making this 'clarification' that sales of HD were horrible.

[Nyrion]

Agreed.

They're also saying by making this 'clarification' that sales of HD were horrible.

I suspect this is more a case of 'seeing what you want to see'.

[Namesse]

I suspect this is more a case of 'seeing what you want to see'.

Perhaps.

To continue the epic you need to do the previous book, which can only be done with buying HD; that's fine, they don't always give an on-ramp for every book.

To do the Fangorn quests, it seems that Sapience is saying you still need to buy HD, it's not an independent quest pack, although subscribers will not have to pay extra for it beyond their HD purchase. So yes, I am jumping to the conclusion that they're actively gating content behind HD because it didn't sell well.

Why do you think they're gating an update behind a paid expansion rather than have the update as an independent purchase?

[frickinmuck]

If you guys want to discuss this issue in greater depth, could you please make a separate post elsewhere (and link to it from here if you like)? I know how these conversations can go and I don't want my Q&A buried under pages of discussion of something that's not central to the Q&A.

[Mar-Evayave]

If you guys want to discuss this issue in greater depth, could you please make a separate post elsewhere (and link to it from here if you like)? I know how these conversations can go and I don't want my Q&A buried under pages of discussion of something that's not central to the Q&A.

Aside from having fun with Sapience during the actual runs, this whole thing is about Q/A. Asking questions, getting answers. How is it not central, then, to ask a question about one of the answers?

I also do not want to see this Q/A thread disappear under a dozen pages of back-and-forth "discussion". I still want an answer about what seems to be a very big thing.

[frickinmuck]

Aside from having fun with Sapience during the actual runs, this whole thing is about Q/A. Asking questions, getting answers. How is it not central, then, to ask a question about one of the answers?

I also do not want to see this Q/A thread disappear under a dozen pages of back-and-forth "discussion". I still want an answer about what seems to be a very big thing.

Yes, but if there is more to be said about this in this thread, I'd greatly prefer it to come from Sapience or another blue name than see an avalanche of argumentative or speculative comments from players. That's all I'm saying. Not trying to shut anyone down, here - there's nothing stopping people from discussing this in greater depth elsewhere, and linking people here to there if they want. I just don't want people to have to wade through pages of discussion of one issue to get to the "meat" of what this thread is for.

[Mar-Evayave]

Yes, but if there is more to be said about this in this thread, I'd greatly prefer it to come from Sapience or another blue name than see an avalanche of argumentative or speculative comments from players. That's all I'm saying. Not trying to shut anyone down, here - there's nothing stopping people from discussing this in greater depth elsewhere, and linking people here to there if they want. I just don't want people to have to wade through pages of discussion of one issue to get to the "meat" of what this thread is for.

Oh, I know that. You are one of the last people I'd imagine trying to shut anyone down. I just wanted to make it clear that, while I still very much want an answer from Sapience, I also don't want any argumentation. I didn't make my initial post on the matter to spark a debate or even any discussion at all. It was a very specific question directed to Sapience specifically. The next Hobbit run isn't for another 2 weeks, so the forums are currently the only way to ask at the moment. As such, it's hard to direct questions specifically to Sapience and avoid some measure of "discussion".

At this point, it still seems vaguely worded to me. Until Sapience gives a clear statement (is the quest pack free to VIPs and purchasable by others as previously stated, or was it false advertising and it's actually tied 100% into the HD xpac), there is little purpose in further discussion. Any "outrage" (and I use that term loosely; no matter what the outcome, I'd hope any further discussion could remain civil) should come after such a statement. Because, as you say, until them it's a world of speculation and semantics.

[Mar-Evayave]

Apologies in advance for the double-post, but as it has been an hour I wanted to be sure those interested saw this (instead of editing my previous post and risking them missing it).

Watching the U13 video on MMO Reporter (I'd recommend everyone watch it -- it's a neat vid). Here is something Rowan shares (and I'll try to quote word for word as best I can):

Unknown voice: Will update cost non-VIPs who have purchased the expansion already?
Rowan: So, the expansion... basically the gate for this update is the expansion pack. This is an extension of Helm's Deep and has the conclusion of Helm's Deep. Um, as Jeff was saying its-its really about closing the Volume III storyline, uh, and concluding, uh, the threat of Saruman. Uh, so if you purchased Helm's Deep all of this is free. Uh, and yes, we're thinking of VIPs and we will definitely have, uh, free content for VIPs, uh, later in the year as well.

While I'm still disappointed that at least a little false advertising seems to be playing a role (it was stated before that all of the quarterly regions would be free to VIPs; now at least one will not), but I do at least recognize the reasoning. I don't agree with it at all, but I do recognize and understand (to a degree) what they are shooting for. Of course, to that I might say, "Well then why not lock Lorien into Moria, Enedwaith into Mirkwood, Great River into Dunland, or Wildermore into East Rohan?" It worked fine with all of those, and the epics played a big role there as well. I see where the reasoning is coming from -- I just don't agree with it. It tastes strongly of trying to get more people to buy (and run extensively) the HD xpac.

I seriously hope that future content (and yes, xpacs) are not locked so far into the epic. So far it seems to not only make the epics not free, but also the between-xpac quest packs not free (for VIPs) either. It seems to be making all new content entirely tied into the expansions.

[frickinmuck]

Watching the U13 video on MMO Reporter (I'd recommend everyone watch it -- it's a neat vid).

It is indeed. Here's a link for anyone who's interested in checking it out.