Update 15 - Will we join aragorn or keep playing the disposable garbage mopper again?

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I sure don't want them to remove the fun of others. Still, combat is just another task. Personally, I'd find the game totally fun if is was nothing but normal 'menial' daily tasks plus puzzle solving quests that triggered events elsewhere without me ever having to fight. Others surely won't find that to be fun, so I have to put up with the combat and I do it by trivializing it mentally compared to other tasks. Pure role-play in my mind and so long as that does not adversely impact others, this kind of play should not be penalized.

I guess that all depends if your preferred style of play is in a minority or not. Given that the game's been around for 7+ years and on the whole the bulk of the quests require some form of combat so I'll make an assertion that the vast majority of the people who play lotro are happy with the current game design. So on that basis I cannot see that overall design being changed just to please a small minority who don't want combat.

[cdq1958]

I guess that all depends if your preferred style of play is in a minority or not. Given that the game's been around for 7+ years and on the whole the bulk of the quests require some form of combat so I'll make an assertion that the vast majority of the people who play lotro are happy with the current game design. So on that basis I cannot see that overall design being changed just to please a small minority who don't want combat.

I agree and I don't expect the combat parts to be changed. Still I see many calls to remove stuff that isn't directly combat related and doesn't feel 'heroic' to them like combat does. That's my beef. I love these quests and they sure are not anywhere near the majority. All that I'm asking for is for those who like them to be able to continue to enjoy them. Too bad there can't be more optional paths sometimes .

[PoeticNightmare]

I agree and I don't expect the combat parts to be changed. Still I see many calls to remove stuff that isn't directly combat related and doesn't feel 'heroic' to them like combat does. That's my beef. I love these quests and they sure are not anywhere near the majority. All that I'm asking for is for those who like them to be able to continue to enjoy them. Too bad there can't be more optional paths sometimes .

This is what I'd like. More options are never bad thing. I'd like to take the more combat oriented route, while others can take the non combat routes.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I agree and I don't expect the combat parts to be changed. Still I see many calls to remove stuff that isn't directly combat related and doesn't feel 'heroic' to them like combat does. That's my beef. I love these quests and they sure are not anywhere near the majority. All that I'm asking for is for those who like them to be able to continue to enjoy them. Too bad there can't be more optional paths sometimes .

I can understand your point of view. Certainly many of the quests in the Shire and around Staddle were of the type that you refer to and perhaps reflect a more innocent world than compared to that which we find in say Angmar or Mirkwood where we are firmly in enemy territory. I've been reading Tolkien since the mid 80s and for me one of the central themes is how four innocent and perhaps naive hobbits go on their own personal journeys of discovery and for, fighting is an absolute last resort rather than how say Gimli or even Legolas approach it. So it is going to be interesting to see how the writers develop the overall storyline for this game when we move out of the "civilised" lands and so develop a range of content styles that are not combat related and yet don't fall back on the clichés of the "find x and bring it back" type. In short, if the writers can really nail some absorbing story-driven quest arcs then combat or the lack of it won't be an issue.

[TheNightAngel]

In regards to combat quest vs "menial task" quest, I think it really depends on where the story is being told and what is going on at the time. I'm perfectly fine with doing these task in the Shire because that type of story makes sense. However, doing them in Rohan baffles me. The land is under siege, villages being pillaged and burned to the ground. Why am I wasting my time cleaning up dinner plates in Edoras? Rohan only felt like it was at war half the time, and that was disappointing to me. There should have been a sense of urgency, and an ever growing darkness. One thing I do like about the new update (I'm basing this mostly on beta 3 for it due to that's the state I experienced most of this in), is that there's a real sense of bad stuff is going on. There are invaders and they must be driven off. I know the devs stated more quest were added since then and I haven't been able to play through the whole update yet on live, but based off of what was in the game during beta 3 - the task fit the story.

[Maviarab]

*Sees dirty washing in the basket.....looks at the unwashed plates....notices the furrballs the cat threw up on the chair in the corner*

*sighs*

My situation is dire....

[bcowan]

Why is everyone in this thread complaining? I know when I go pick 3 cabbages and bring them back to supplier X because he can't or doesn't have time and I earn 50k experence, I FEEL MORE EPIC THAN BEFORE!!!! Or I go gather a Large Mushroom and bring it back I AM MORE AWESOME than before I found that mushroom.

Let's just say that I feel bad for the guys at Turbine that have to still write the dialog for the NPCs that give us these quests. Everytime a new expansion comes out, I say to myself that I will slow down and read the dialog and enjoy the journey, then I realize I'm just gathering flowers and picking up supply crates, and my best intentions go down the drain. I totally ignore anything they have typed up for these guys to say to us. Sorry, but after 7 years of the same type quests, I went from 95 -100 in one evening last night and its back to Hytbold 2.0.

I love the feel and the look of this game, but Questing at this point to level is just an unneccessary evil to get to the cap.

[cdq1958]

*Sees dirty washing in the basket.....looks at the unwashed plates....notices the furrballs the cat threw up on the chair in the corner*

*sighs*

My situation is dire....

Lol

more chars

[Kittyvicious]

LORE RANT- This is my personal opinion.

The way the Epic story is developing makes you look like the insignificant garbage cleaner who no one pays attention to, nor considers worthy of sharing any important plan. In Shadows of Angmar, Moria, Rohan at least the quests were dignified and you were considered something. Now after running around and finally uniting the Grey company, at the end of Epic 3 everyone was sharing drinks and passing around praises. Now you get teleported from the stairs of Orthanc to Dunharrow, completely skipping at least 5 chapters, to find Aragorn leaving you behind again and completely forgetting about you as if you were a Rohan peasant. At least we should have been given the respect of consultation. Instead the big people go about their business and you get to follow and try and find ways to make yourself feel important.
Can we catch up with Aragorn in Update 15 please, or are we no longer "Allies of the King" and our lineage is too low to join his mighty company?

I find it ironic that this is prefaced as a lore rant and then asks to go against everything in lore so that we can feel more heroic. I think they've done a pretty stellar job of making our parts stand out as it weaves in and out of the proper story. Of course Aragorn leaves us behind as he goes to the path of the dead because it was between him and his closest companions. He didn't need to consort every person he's ever known or broken bread with prior to taking on something that is his birthright. Should these kings also ask for our permission to do anything in their lands? We aren't gods. We are adventurers fighting the good fight, sometimes crossing path with others doing the same. Technically in the game our characters don't have the knowledge of the outcome of the books. For all we know Aragorn is going crazy. We do what we must and the story goes ever on.

[Aftaminas]

I like to be, as you write, the Disposable Garbage Mopper (DiGMo?).

[grrgwrigo563]

I find it ironic that this is prefaced as a lore rant and then asks to go against everything in lore so that we can feel more heroic. I think they've done a pretty stellar job of making our parts stand out as it weaves in and out of the proper story. Of course Aragorn leaves us behind as he goes to the path of the dead because it was between him and his closest companions. He didn't need to consort every person he's ever known or broken bread with prior to taking on something that is his birthright. Should these kings also ask for our permission to do anything in their lands? We aren't gods. We are adventurers fighting the good fight, sometimes crossing path with others doing the same. Technically in the game our characters don't have the knowledge of the outcome of the books. For all we know Aragorn is going crazy. We do what we must and the story goes ever on.

Its written in context of the game lore.

If travelling with Theoden and company to Orthanc and lasting the night in Helm's deep was not 'against' the lore then why is asking to accompany Aragorn a violation? The quests the dev's give us fit in the grey ambiguous areas of the story. Accompanying Aragorn does not mean tagging along with him from Morthond to Pelennor, their are many many ways of doing it e.g. with Gandalf in Rohan, & Halbarad in Dunland. The way it's done in U14 was a disconnected approach, I am in favor of a more connected one.

Yes, he did not need to consort every person he's ever known or broken bread with, but that's putting a hero on the same standard as that of a farm boy or layperson. So I guess helping him reforge his sword, travelling with his kin on a top secret mission and securing Angmar were ordinary deeds irrelevant to him which he would never entrust to any companion.

[Kittyvicious]

The way it's done in U14 was a disconnected approach, I am in favor of a more connected one.

Yes, he did not need to consort every person he's ever known or broken bread with, but that's putting a hero on the same standard as that of a farm boy or layperson. So I guess helping him reforge his sword, travelling with his kin on a top secret mission and securing Angmar were ordinary deeds irrelevant to him which he would never entrust to any companion.

It's disconnected because the game doesn't have to follow the story and its heroes on their immediate footsteps. It's not the first time this has happened, nor will it be the last. They have other stories they want to tell and we care about more than just Aragorn and the Ring in the game lore. Our characters are proper heroes looking after a great deal of things beyond the scope of those specific characters. Asking to be included in one of Aragorn's most pivotal moments that is his alone by birthright is selfish and illogical.

They still provided a glimpse of that experience via the session play as one of the ghosts. The real story is what's going on with all of these people that don't get mentioned in the stories at all. If Turbine catered to the mentality you seem to approve most of the game's content would never have existed. I'd prefer to see the expanded vision of the world and not play through LotR on a literal chapter by chapter basis. I can read the books, watch movies, and play other games if I'm looking for that experience.

To each their own, but it's quite presumptuous to be complaining we didn't get to tag along with Aragorn while he calls a blood debt from his ghost army. I'm guessing you'd also like to be inside of Mordor and dropkick Gollum into the fires of Mt. Doom and scream THIS.IS.LOTRO!..right? Glad Turbine has the tact to write surrounding stories as carefully as they do and don't feel the need to shoehorn us into every scene from the movies.

[grrgwrigo563]

It's disconnected because the game doesn't have to follow the story and its heroes on their immediate footsteps. It's not the first time this has happened, nor will it be the last. They have other stories they want to tell and we care about more than just Aragorn and the Ring in the game lore. Our characters are proper heroes looking after a great deal of things beyond the scope of those specific characters. Asking to be included in one of Aragorn's most pivotal moments that is his alone by birthright is selfish and illogical.

They still provided a glimpse of that experience via the session play as one of the ghosts. The real story is what's going on with all of these people that don't get mentioned in the stories at all. If Turbine catered to the mentality you seem to approve most of the game's content would never have existed. I'd prefer to see the expanded vision of the world and not play through LotR on a literal chapter by chapter basis. I can read the books, watch movies, and play other games if I'm looking for that experience.

To each their own, but it's quite presumptuous to be complaining we didn't get to tag along with Aragorn while he calls a blood debt from his ghost army. I'm guessing you'd also like to be inside of Mordor and dropkick Gollum into the fires of Mt. Doom and scream THIS.IS.LOTRO!..right? Glad Turbine has the tact to write surrounding stories as carefully as they do and don't feel the need to shoehorn us into every scene from the movies.

Speak for yourself, you don't represent me so drop the 'we'.
"Asking to be included in one of Aragorn's most pivotal moments that is his alone by birthright is selfish and illogical" - Gaining the sword, showing it off and having it forged was also his birthright. Did you not do the quests in Evendim because it was 'selfish' and 'illogical'? The ride of the grey company was also as pivotal as this, did you not play Epic Vol 3 too because it was 'selfish' and 'illogical'? As a player of a game that I have paying for forever, I can give any feedback I want without your permission.

It's disconnected because the game doesn't have to follow the story and its heroes on their immediate footsteps. - I guess in your mind making it disconnected is the only way of not following in the immediate footsteps of the heroes. Thank fully the developers have more creative capacity. There have been plenty of connected approaches that have affected but neither interfered nor featured in the main story line. I want it to be that way, If you have a problem with my opinion I cant help you. I have mentioned before that the developers can chose whatever they like, I'm happy to play.

The real story is what's going on with all of these people that don't get mentioned in the stories at all - Partially agree, But although Forochel is my second favorite region, Its hilarious to call destroying the Dourhands minding their own business as the real story, those are additional story lines.


To each their own, but it's quite presumptuous to be complaining we didn't get to tag along with Aragorn while he calls a blood debt from his ghost army. I'm guessing you'd also like to be inside of Mordor and dropkick Gollum into the fires of Mt. Doom and scream THIS.IS.LOTRO!..right? Glad Turbine has the tact to write surrounding stories as carefully as they do and don't feel the need to shoehorn us into every scene from the movies

It is also quite preposterous to blatantly label your negative opinions on some one else's intentions. Yes, I want to play interlude sessions inside Mordor and see Gollum drop in Mt. Doom, just as 1. We see the fall of Boromir, 2. Saw Gandalf encounter the Balrog, 3. Witnessed Aragorn and his company cross the paths of the dead, 4. Found out whats happening with the Grey Company. Even for a lore based MMO, integrating the turning points of story are essentials. and I am glad that Turbine is not as prejudiced to cater only to the bigoted and volatile desires of immature players. Yes it is LOTRO, I don't remember talking about Guild Wars anywhere in my posts. Please read them slowly and thoroughly the next time.

[grrgwrigo563]

It's disconnected because the game doesn't have to follow the story and its heroes on their immediate footsteps. It's not the first time this has happened, nor will it be the last. They have other stories they want to tell and we care about more than just Aragorn and the Ring in the game lore. Our characters are proper heroes looking after a great deal of things beyond the scope of those specific characters. Asking to be included in one of Aragorn's most pivotal moments that is his alone by birthright is selfish and illogical.

They still provided a glimpse of that experience via the session play as one of the ghosts. The real story is what's going on with all of these people that don't get mentioned in the stories at all. If Turbine catered to the mentality you seem to approve most of the game's content would never have existed. I'd prefer to see the expanded vision of the world and not play through LotR on a literal chapter by chapter basis. I can read the books, watch movies, and play other games if I'm looking for that experience.

To each their own, but it's quite presumptuous to be complaining we didn't get to tag along with Aragorn while he calls a blood debt from his ghost army. I'm guessing you'd also like to be inside of Mordor and dropkick Gollum into the fires of Mt. Doom and scream THIS.IS.LOTRO!..right? Glad Turbine has the tact to write surrounding stories as carefully as they do and don't feel the need to shoehorn us into every scene from the movies.

No one is arguing for limiting LOTRO to a linear quest line that does not expand beyond the Epic books, and cutting out the interactive experience those regions give. Have no idea where you picked that up from. Otherwise this would not have been an MMO.

[Kittyvicious]

Speak for yourself, you don't represent me so drop the 'we'.

I can't take you seriously if you can't take the time to read my post. No where do I presume to speak for others. Slow down, reread, then respond again. And drop the attitude that is making you put words in people's mouths.

[Comstrike]

Saying to drop the "we" because one as an individual doesn't agree is as nuts as implying the person assuming the existence of a constituency is unsupportable.

It is enough to state that one disagrees rather than make the attempt to discredit a point of view by inferring an equal but opposite absolute.

Or so "they" say.

[Vexendynamus]

Of course Aragorn leaves us behind as he goes to the path of the dead because it was between him and his closest companions.

Within the context of Lord of the Rings Online, Aragorn is well aware that while pursuing his very important task, our character ran constant interference against forces of Angmar, Isengard, Mordor, and the Gaunt Lords, ensuring there will be an Eriador and Rhovanion to go back to. Immediately prior to entering the Paths of the Dead, our character fought side by side with Aragorn through the long night at Helm's Deep, and it was the leadership of our character during the five phases of that battle that preserved the Rohirrim forces, leaving enough at dawn for the final charge. When Gimli was pushed back into the Glittering caves, he tasked our character with saving his life. In point of fact, our character continues to act as Aragorn's greatest champion and within the context of the story told here, he well knows it.

He didn't need to consort every person he's ever known or broken bread with prior to taking on something that is his birthright.

As explained above, our character is not some random person but instead continues to act as Aragorn's greatest champion. Our character knows the true purpose of the Fellowship, the story of the Oath Breakers, the history of Aragorn's ring, and even played out a version of Aragorn's walk through the Paths of the Dead with Candaith and the Rangers of the North. Having met up with the Rangers, Aragorn should know of the latter event.

In my opinion, the story writer dropped the ball. Our character should have met with Aragorn immediately prior to his walk and once again set off to run interference at his request. Why would he leave such an important ally without clear instructions to help his cause?

[OldMadeOfLions]

In my opinion, the story writer dropped the ball. Our character should have met with Aragorn immediately prior to his walk and once again set off to run interference at his request. Why would he leave such an important ally without clear instructions to help his cause?

The problem with meeting with Aragorn immediately before he enters the Paths of the Dead is that there's very little reason *not* to accompany him at that point, which means that the Paths of the Dead experience is then further constrained to the text of the narrative. And if he sends you to run interference you're more-or-less constrained to the Rohan side of the mountains, unless he's presupposing that you'll follow him through the Paths afterward anyway. It's a tricky balance, and I'm reasonably happy with this as the solution.

MoL

[grrgwrigo563]

I can't take you seriously if you can't take the time to read my post. No where do I presume to speak for others. Slow down, reread, then respond again. And drop the attitude that is making you put words in people's mouths.

Before you start lecturing others, slow down, reread, and then understand the page you are pulling out from your own book.

The first line of the first post clearly says - This is my personal opinion, my suggestion, others people have theirs, and I have reiterated that many times. Dont have too prove that to you time and again.
Like I said in my previous post, I don't have to agree with you, slow down, reread, and then understand, your first post in your thread. That is clearly YOU trying to force your opinions. So please don't post hypocritic statements like And drop the attitude that is making you put words in people's mouths, and don't presume everyone acts like you.

[DanielMoravek]

LOTRO need more SANDBOX gameplay. Lotro is too much dependent on side quests, this make lotro too much dependent on developer content creation.
Some more sandbox gameplay would allow players to create their own stories and adventures and they will become less dependent on developer content updates (scripted side quests).

There is only one hard thing with sandbox, you need much more deeper world/environment/NPC gameplay mechanics. Lotro environment (WORLD) is too much static in current state.

with some more sandboxing there would be even more reason to pick up VIP monthly subs again, currently with my premium+ i dont playing much, waiting many months, then buy new region, finish its quests in few days and guess what.. its done for me no other reason to play it or pay for it any more so for another many months before new region is released meanwhile i depart to other games (PS2,WH,BF3,Wither... and spend my money there)

About mopping and cleaning quests...
they could make some more exploring instead, like that treasures but more deeper, maybe as another big thing what to do in Lotro, exploring areas and finding forgotten caves, dungeons, ruins with little stories and puzzles inside of them... with interesting rewards (Items+XP)... you know.. you have to find them no NPC will guide you to them.

[Valamar]

The problem with meeting with Aragorn immediately before he enters the Paths of the Dead is that there's very little reason *not* to accompany him at that point, which means that the Paths of the Dead experience is then further constrained to the text of the narrative. And if he sends you to run interference you're more-or-less constrained to the Rohan side of the mountains, unless he's presupposing that you'll follow him through the Paths afterward anyway. It's a tricky balance, and I'm reasonably happy with this as the solution.

MoL

Personally, I like the way this was done. Especially once one gets through and has a chance to experience the Interlude (at the Hill of Erech): Interlude: Those Who Are Dead.

Folks need to keep in mind -- Aragon basically "snuck" down the Paths of the Dead at dawn against the wishes of everyone, while everyone was mustering to ride to Gondor.

[Arnenna]

LORE RANT- This is my personal opinion.

The way the Epic story is developing makes you look like the insignificant garbage cleaner who no one pays attention to, nor considers worthy of sharing any important plan. In Shadows of Angmar, Moria, Rohan at least the quests were dignified and you were considered something. Now after running around and finally uniting the Grey company, at the end of Epic 3 everyone was sharing drinks and passing around praises. Now you get teleported from the stairs of Orthanc to Dunharrow, completely skipping at least 5 chapters, to find Aragorn leaving you behind again and completely forgetting about you as if you were a Rohan peasant. At least we should have been given the respect of consultation. Instead the big people go about their business and you get to follow and try and find ways to make yourself feel important.
Can we catch up with Aragorn in Update 15 please, or are we no longer "Allies of the King" and our lineage is too low to join his mighty company?

Think of butterfly wings

Everything we do in the game, has an indirect influence on the story, and IMO, its all very well thought out. For example, If I were not running around a field yesterday gathering bandages and kingsfoil for a healer to fix a guy in Lamedon, then he wouldn't have sent me off to find his satchel (because he probably wouldn't have got well), and I wouldn't have found the Corsairs and burned their watch towers, and then eventually, when Aragorn finally turns up, they would have seen him and shot him off middle earth before he could raise the army of the dead

Little folk . . . they are very significant, whether they mop up slop, pick up poop, find things or fight mighty battles. Unsung heros if you like, but hero's just the same.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Think of butterfly wings

Everything we do in the game, has an indirect influence on the story, and IMO, its all very well thought out. For example, If I were not running around a field yesterday gathering bandages and kingsfoil for a healer to fix a guy in Lamedon, then he wouldn't have sent me off to find his satchel (because he probably wouldn't have got well), and I wouldn't have found the Corsairs and burned their watch towers, and then eventually, when Aragorn finally turns up, they would have seen him and shot him off middle earth before he could raise the army of the dead

Little folk . . . they are very significant, whether they mop up slop, pick up poop, find things or fight mighty battles. Unsung heros if you like, but hero's just the same.

At least that quest arc where we start off by helping that wounded man had some story to it whereas a lot of those types of quest in HD were just filler of the blandest sort.

[ararax2]

The problem with meeting with Aragorn immediately before he enters the Paths of the Dead is that there's very little reason *not* to accompany him at that point, which means that the Paths of the Dead experience is then further constrained to the text of the narrative. And if he sends you to run interference you're more-or-less constrained to the Rohan side of the mountains, unless he's presupposing that you'll follow him through the Paths afterward anyway. It's a tricky balance, and I'm reasonably happy with this as the solution.

MoL

I thought we were going to gather the Rohirrim ala Book 3 intro. Head up to Stangard then Harwick->Cliving->Eaworth-Snowborn->Aldburg->Stoke etc...

[lordbongo]

If you think getting left behind Aragorn for a bit to help out is bad, The Grey company didn't even make it into the movies. I would like to witness the assault on the Corsair ships tho. The major events are cool to see. we have been away from Frodo far too long. I want to go and kill Shelob in a raid