New Transfer Features

[Gunslinger53]

A simple way to handle the name change is based on account date. I made my character over 7 1/2 years ago and have been VIP ever since. I realize this will sound selfish; however, would it be fair to have me change my name because some who's been playing a year and a half has the same name? Just something to consider.

[Padhril]

Except that there might be characters just as old as yours that haven't been played in years, while there might be ones that are only a year old and are played every week or even more frequently. Would the latter losing their names to former be any fairer than you losing your name to a newer player? People with older characters will consider age the best characteristic to give preference by, while people who play their characters will prefer activity. People who are remaining on their server will not like "intruders" taking their name, while people who have to move servers will be annoyed that to the upset of leaving their server behind comes the additional inconvenience of losing their name.

What seems utterly fair to one person will be totally unfair to another, depending on whether the outcome is the one they prefer. And I honestly doubt that Turbine will find a solution that isn't considered deeply wrong and unfair by whatever group loses their names. Not because of not trying or ill intentions on Turbine's part, (at least we are finally getting actual information again, which is a nice change even though not all information even seems to exist yet), but because right now no one seems to have been able to suggest a solution that would be fair on everyone.

[Scirocco]

That's a creative idea, but as someone playing on Laurelin, which is a RP server, I am sure that that's a hill some RP'ers would die on (or rather leave the game over). While "of Laurelin" isn't absurd a name as "of Brandywine", the serious RP'ers have put a lot of energy into their character name, biography and the like. If they were made to run around with a name that is quite nonsensical in a RP sense (from an in-character view, Laurelin is something very specific and not a place someone could be from, while there is nothing like a "server), that would cause a lot of upset.

A good point. Perhaps a better, more flexible solution can be had without the complexity of adding tags or account denominators. What if we changed the name restrictions slightly, so that everyone still had a single name, but with the following adjustments:

1. Underscores are an acceptable character in a name. No more than two per name, they cannot be adjacent, they cannot be the first character or last character. In chat and in the game, they appear as spaces. To send a tell to such a person, the sender uses the underscore character.

2. The word between two underscores in a name would be restricted to a short list, including "the" and "of". Perhaps others.

3. The length of possible names has to be increased appropriately.

4. When "the" or "of" are used as the middle word, the third word cannot be such as to duplicate an existing in-game title.


What the above does is allow the use of lastnames and limited identifiers. As "Scirocco" I can change to the following (as they would appear in chat):

Scirocco the Lesser
Scirocco the Red
Red Scirocco
Scirocco Greybeard
Scirocco of Breehill


Conflicts are thus easily resolved:

1. A character on the target server (unless totally inactive) keeps its current name, but can be given a name change token so it can take advantage of the above if it wants (I have been an avid roleplayer, and think that many RPers would love the opportunity to modify their name along the lines above).

2. A character being moved to the target server gets "+1" or "the Moved" (I prefer the latter, rather than having a bunch of +1s running around) added to their name, and a name change token. They then can modify their name along the lines above. They also can wait to see if the current base name holder changes their name, in which case, they can change their name back to the base form themselves. I.e., Scirocco_the_Moved back to Scirocco.

3. I would include a special case where the character on the target server hasn't been played for 5+ years, or hasn't even made it out of the tutorial. They would get the addition of "the Tardy", and the character being transferred would thus be able to retain the base name.

[Mar-Evayave]

Please don't put fear and doubts out there to grow like a bad rumor. No one who has played any Cryptic game long enough not to be a noob would think that. Everyone knows about account identifiers and how to check if someone is who they say they are. People that try and troll like that stand like obvious noobs. STO is pretty niche, even more than LotRO, and the community polices itself pretty well. The nice thing about their system is that when someone is vulgar, trolling, or just an asshat you ignore their entire account and not just one character.

I am merely giving an example about what really did happen, and it was not as easy as you think for people to realize it was a troll. When the character name and handle are so close to each other, it is not so easily cut and dried. If it can happen in STO (and ruin, even if only temporarily, a player's reputation) then it can happen anywhere. And even if it is not done in a negative, stalker/harasser way, the confusion it can cause could carry the potential for mistakes. A kinmate of mine had a character with a name very similar to mine, and we had fun in chat (making sure our kinmates knew who we were), but still... :/ Name confusion could become a real issue, and name harassing could too.

[Tineng]

I am in Landroval (US-RE) but roleplay with someone also in Landroval (EU) *is not sure what the RE is* will we be able to continue after the change?

[Ziane]

A good point. Perhaps a better, more flexible solution can be had without the complexity of adding tags or account denominators. What if we changed the name restrictions slightly, so that everyone still had a single name, but with the following adjustments:

1. Underscores are an acceptable character in a name. No more than two per name, they cannot be adjacent, they cannot be the first character or last character. In chat and in the game, they appear as spaces. To send a tell to such a person, the sender uses the underscore character.

2. The word between two underscores in a name would be restricted to a short list, including "the" and "of". Perhaps others.

3. The length of possible names has to be increased appropriately.

4. When "the" or "of" are used as the middle word, the third word cannot be such as to duplicate an existing in-game title.


What the above does is allow the use of lastnames and limited identifiers. As "Scirocco" I can change to the following (as they would appear in chat):

Scirocco the Lesser
Scirocco the Red
Red Scirocco
Scirocco Greybeard
Scirocco of Breehill


Conflicts are thus easily resolved:

1. A character on the target server (unless totally inactive) keeps its current name, but can be given a name change token so it can take advantage of the above if it wants (I have been an avid roleplayer, and think that many RPers would love the opportunity to modify their name along the lines above).

2. A character being moved to the target server gets "+1" or "the Moved" (I prefer the latter, rather than having a bunch of +1s running around) added to their name, and a name change token. They then can modify their name along the lines above. They also can wait to see if the current base name holder changes their name, in which case, they can change their name back to the base form themselves. I.e., Scirocco_the_Moved back to Scirocco.

3. I would include a special case where the character on the target server hasn't been played for 5+ years, or hasn't even made it out of the tutorial. They would get the addition of "the Tardy", and the character being transferred would thus be able to retain the base name.

Nice idea! It is very rational and actually attractive to think I could make a name using an underscore to create something new out of my names. It has gotten harder and harder to create names that sounds like they belong in Middle Earth. This really is a good plan and I hope it can be implemented.

[Scirocco]

I am merely giving an example about what really did happen, and it was not as easy as you think for people to realize it was a troll. When the character name and handle are so close to each other, it is not so easily cut and dried. If it can happen in STO (and ruin, even if only temporarily, a player's reputation) then it can happen anywhere. And even if it is not done in a negative, stalker/harasser way, the confusion it can cause could carry the potential for mistakes. A kinmate of mine had a character with a name very similar to mine, and we had fun in chat (making sure our kinmates knew who we were), but still... :/ Name confusion could become a real issue, and name harassing could too.

But this can already be done in the existing system. I can easily create a new character with a confusingly similar name to someone else (i.e., with a single character addition, deletion or change). Alternatively, I can create a name that more directly harasses someone by appending something insulting to the base name.

Whatever system is used to accommodate name conflicts (and there needs to be one), there will be the same possibility for harassment just as in the current system. Instances of harassment should continue to be dealt with as they are now.

[Shadalarion]

As a NA player playing on Laurelin was hopeing to transfer my toons to a NA server...

I live in Mountain Timezone, and after checking with my ISP there is going to be problem with the new server locations, seems my ISP has lot of the IP addresses blocked over there due to hackers, and other cyber threats..

Well if am not able to move anything from Laurelin to Landroval will just delete my characters that have invested time and money into... Be shame to see it go to waste when there is no possiblity to keep a connection to the new server locations due to my ISP blocking IP addresses in the region that the new servers are located due to problems with cyber security..

[Padhril]

I am in Landroval (US-RE) but roleplay with someone also in Landroval (EU) *is not sure what the RE is* will we be able to continue after the change?

RE means "roleplaying encouraged". But there is no such thing as Landroval (EU). The server is located in the US (all servers are right now, but the ones that say "EU" used to be in the EU before they were moved to the US, still have a mostly European population, and will now be moved back to Europe again). Landroval has "US" behind the name, as was a US server and will stay there. If you are both roleplaying together on the same server, then you will continue to be able to do so. If you mean that your friend lives in the EU and plays with you on Landroval, then still nothing will change for them.

What is changing regarding server locations is that the EU servers are being moved back to the EU. Players in the US might have some connection issues - the same issues the which the (at that time) almost exclusively European population of the EU servers has been dealing with ever since those servers were moved to the US. For EU players on EU servers, things will hopefully get better.

As a NA player playing on Laurelin was hopeing to transfer my toons to a NA server...

I live in Mountain Timezone, and after checking with my ISP there is going to be problem with the new server locations, seems my ISP has lot of the IP addresses blocked over there due to hackers, and other cyber threats..

Well if am not able to move anything from Laurelin to Landroval will just delete my characters that have invested time and money into... Be shame to see it go to waste when there is no possiblity to keep a connection to the new server locations due to my ISP blocking IP addresses in the region that the new servers are located due to problems with cyber security..

Have you checked the actual IP area? "Over there", by which I assume you mean all of Europe, is quite a big area, in which not all countries are exactly identical. AFAIK those servers are moving to Amsterdam, and so far I haven't thought of my neighbouring country as a capital of cyber crime, or heard of anywhere blocking Dutch websites because they are populated by evil hackers.

[Mar-Evayave]

But this can already be done in the existing system. I can easily create a new character with a confusingly similar name to someone else (i.e., with a single character addition, deletion or change). Alternatively, I can create a name that more directly harasses someone by appending something insulting to the base name.

Whatever system is used to accommodate name conflicts (and there needs to be one), there will be the same possibility for harassment just as in the current system. Instances of harassment should continue to be dealt with as they are now.

I know, but at least under the current system there cannot be two players with exactly the same name. So if people are aware of the exact spelling (Frodo vs Froodo, for example) then the potential for confusion would be less than if they did have the same spelling (Frodo vs Frodo).

I am in Landroval (US-RE) but roleplay with someone also in Landroval (EU) *is not sure what the RE is* will we be able to continue after the change?

I'm not sure I understand what your question is. You are both on Landroval, but your friend is in the EU instead of NA/US? If that's the case, then definitely yes. You can still play on any live server you want, regardless of where it is located in the world. YOu just cannot transfer between an EU server and a NA/US server.

First, thank you very much, Vyvyanne, for this informative post and it's strong indications of progress on many fronts, and Turbine considerations in others. The note that this is part of a series that will provide further information as it becomes established enough to share is another plus. While it may reduce the amount of information in a single lump, I would request that this be a weekly series, even if some of them only include "We are still working on and . We have made good progress on , but there are still some issues. On , we have had to reconsider our approach, and the outcome is still not well defined and work is ongoing."

Second, a late Friday release (followed closely by an escape) might be the best time to release these updates. Just like any scientific advance, these posts will answer a number of our questions, but will generate 3 times the number of new, more detailed and specific questions than they answered - and 3x may be low... I'd strongly encourage some sort of rough schedule that seemed reasonable to you and your expectations of progress, as a pattern of information flow, even if it has it's good weeks and not-so-good weeks, is still a pattern that re-assures people that Things Are Happening.

Third, scheduled or not, being as informative as you can will be greatly appreciated. Even those of us who have managed a large project get nervous when we don't hear anything (that was always a sign to me that my vendors' deliveries were slipping). Just saying "We are working..." is a help.

I've been thinking about this suggestion for a while. While I don't think Vyv meant to imply that weekly updates were going to happen... if they did happen, I would agree it would be a fantastic idea. Even if it's not much of an update, "a day inside the life of Turbine developing" would be interesting. We could see what projects are being worked on, if there's any successes/progress made, etc. I don't like "no news". I don't like going weeks with little word on what's going on. Even if it may not seem interesting, being able to know that there is work being done could be a good thing.

I would suggest a Wednesday release, though. That way players can ask questions about them during Frelorn's Thursday live-streams, and also allow a few days before the weekend to let the dust settle. I doubt I'm the only one that has noticed that weekends have sorta turned into trollfests. The very restrictions on new members came as a result of a weekend rash of spambots. The weekends get kinda crazy. Dropping a note late Friday means mods won't be around to rein things in if the situation arises. People tend to get heated about things they feel strongly about.

[Scirocco]

Nice idea! It is very rational and actually attractive to think I could make a name using an underscore to create something new out of my names. It has gotten harder and harder to create names that sounds like they belong in Middle Earth. This really is a good plan and I hope it can be implemented.

Thanks. I think that the name change token could become a moneymaker for Turbine if something like this were implemented.

[Macdui]

Tuco mentioned splitting characters between Laurelin(EU-EN-RP) and Landroval (US-RE).

1. For splitting your characters between destination worlds, you will need to choose which one gets all the account items. We can only send the account data to one world.

You can only send the account data and characters to one of these world, there is no choice. Only EU server chars to Laurelin. Only US server chars to Landroval. All change or misinformation?

EDIT: Yes the dreaded QUOTE before the edit. At Least Tuco noticed.

[maartena]

Thanks for the update, Vyvyanne!

Question: What if we don't intend to transfer all of our toons to the same server? I, for instance, have more toons on Nimrodel, than I can absorb on any of the other servers where I play so I'd been intending to split them across multiple servers.

That leads me to wonder, how will account shared items be duplicated/divided in that case?

It is going to be VERY likely that you have to make a "all or nothing" decision on those items. I don't see them getting that detailed that you can pick out the no-longer-available cosmetic in your wardrobe and move it to ONE server, and pick out several other cosmetic items and move them to ANOTHER server. If you do need to split your toons, you are most likely going to have to send some of them without a wardrobe or server-shared items. I don't think they will do duplication either, you own ONE items, you are not going to get TWO items on TWO servers.

I have 18 characters as well, so I am going to have to make a few choices. I don't know where I am going to go with what toons yet, but Riddermark seems to be a favorite for the chopping block, so I will have to make some choices. I don't think division of items is going to happen.

[Tineng]

RE means "roleplaying encouraged". But there is no such thing as Landroval (EU).......................


.

Good news Padhril, thanks for clarifying.. looks like we can continue to RP!


Thank you also @Mar-Evayave! He is in the UK and two of us are in the US...we joined to RP so this works great as long as we can continue.

[Tuco]

Tuco mentioned splitting characters between Laurelin(EU-EN-RP) and Landroval (US-RE).



You can only send the account data and characters to one of these world, there is no choice. Only EU server chars to Laurelin. Only US server chars to Landroval. All change or misinformation?

EDIT: Yes the dreaded QUOTE before the edit. At Least Tuco noticed.

Heh. Yes, Vyvyanne answered the question I meant to ask, i.e. whether I could send parts of my account loot to more than one server. I knew that transferring NA<->EU was already off the board, but had a brain fart in my example because I have characters on both Laurie and Landy (and a dozen other servers).

[maartena]

Kinship transfer: We are working on a system to transfer some of your kinship information data to the new server. More details as this feature develops.

This is a really important feature for me. I have a kinship on Riddermark, and it has grown to a nice community that I really don't want to have to give up. I know individual people make their own choices as to where they want to go with their toons, but I would hate to lose all the people that may be on vacation, or the one that is currently serving a tour in the US armed forces and has asked to please not delete his toon, for he will be back. What features do kinship leaders get, and what is "SOME" of the kinship information? I mean I can live with having to empty my kinship house or finding it in escrow on the other side, and buying a new house and re-decorating it. Not a big deal, neighborhood/location isn't of concern to me.

What IS very much of concern to me are:

- My kinship name: HOW can I find out if the kinship name exists on another server? If on the target server the kinship name already exists, how can I find out if it does? If it is a very small, perhaps only a one person kinship on that side, and the person is never online or anonymous, what tools do we have to see whether my kinship name exists and on what server? My kinship name is important to me, so if e.g. Gladden does not have the kinship name, but Meneldor does, is the only way to find out really just to make toons and see if I can create the kinship? There should be an easier way. Perhaps when you select the kinship to move, the moving portion will inform me whether it exists and I can still back out?

- My kinship members: Sure I can send out an email and say: Okay, y'all need to move over here because that's where the kin is going, but I presume that is going to be voluntary? I know all my officers and most members will follow me to whatever target server we decide on together, but do I have to rebuild the kin up afterwards? Spend hours re-inviting everyone? Losing people along the way that are on vacation or on military deployments? Ideally, what I would LIKE to see is this:

1) Kinship leader moves the kin from Server A to server B.
2) Members logging in on Server A will get a message: Your kinship has been moved to Server B. Would you like to follow your kinship? Yes/No.
3) Members choosing to follow the kinship to Server B will automatically be re-joined to the kinship they were in (regardless of whether the name changed) on Server B.

This procedure should really be "indefinitely" (till server shuts down), and kinship members that have not logged on before the server shuts down due to vacation/study/military deployment whatever should automatically be transferred (but perhaps not become a member) to the server the kinship has moved to.

I am very very concerned about this. I do not want to lose my online family, and we are a pretty nice group.

[deliguy]

how about just a change in the color of the type or different font?

[maartena]

Well if am not able to move anything from Laurelin to Landroval will just delete my characters that have invested time and money into... Be shame to see it go to waste when there is no possiblity to keep a connection to the new server locations due to my ISP blocking IP addresses in the region that the new servers are located due to problems with cyber security..

Your ISP is seriously not going to block IP addresses whatsoever, unless you live in a communist country. And they most certainly aren't going to block IP addresses of big datacenters anywhere in western Europe.

Are you one of those Americans that really believe that everything outside the U.S. border is a dark hole full of unknown dangers and potential terrorists? Yeah, watch FOX News a little more maybe.

Sorry for poking fun at you, but this has to be one of the funniest remarks I have read in a while. No ISP in this country will block IP ranges to online games, and far as I know no ISP here blocks ANY IP address, that is your OWN responsibility on your OWN firewall, not your ISP. (Again, unless you live in some communist controlled enclave I am not aware of where they like to censor what you can and cannot read).

[Padhril]

Your ISP is seriously not going to block IP addresses whatsoever, unless you live in a communist country. And they most certainly aren't going to block IP addresses of big datacenters anywhere in western Europe.

Are you one of those Americans that really believe that everything outside the U.S. border is a dark hole full of unknown dangers and potential terrorists? Yeah, watch FOX News a little more maybe.

Sorry for poking fun at you, but this has to be one of the funniest remarks I have read in a while. No ISP in this country will block IP ranges to online games, and far as I know no ISP here blocks ANY IP address, that is your OWN responsibility on your OWN firewall, not your ISP. (Again, unless you live in some communist controlled enclave I am not aware of where they like to censor what you can and cannot read).

Phew, I for one am relieved. I was getting a bit worried there, what with living next to the Netherlands. So far, I had thought the biggest danger presented by the Dutch was caravans on our highways during holiday season, and now I learn they are a center of cyber crime and hackers?

But yes, I too had wondered if this was one of the "over in Europe they're living in the dark ages" things that we got on student exchange in the late 90s (yes, we have electricity and computers, thanks for asking!), but I thought I was perhaps overinterpreting it due to being European myself.

[Viniel]

The "who gets to keep my name" question is a thorny one. I actually lost the name of my Main on SWTOR after the server merges there. I checked in after 5 months when I was considering paying and playing again, and discovered my name had been taken. I was forced to rename on the spot. I never went back.

But. In server merges, name conflicts will happen. The idea of name suffixes, e.g. "Elroond of Windfola", seems interesting, but I think the ripple effects are large, including tells, mail, invites, and probably more. So, from an engineering cost standpoint, I would not expect to see this.

So I think IF we have to chose who gets to keep the preferred name, then the following criteria should be considered:

(1) Played Time on that character - players who have played more should have an advantage
(2) Level. Although this will be redundant with (1), so we can probably skip this, especially in consideration for the role-players and others who deliberately do not level.
(3) Last Login. If it was 5 years ago, sorry.
(4) VIP vs Premium vs FTP. VIP > Premium > FTP. Revenue from the player matters.

Tie breakers could be things like character creation date, who was on the server first, or some other things that might suggest a preference for one player over another. (heh - Dutch auction in TP to give up your name!)

There might be some compensation offered to those that lose their names in close decisions, or where both players are active: perhaps MC or TPs.

Bottom line, though, I think there will be some unhappy players. But hopefully very few.

[Mar-Evayave]

Thank you also @Mar-Evayave! He is in the UK and two of us are in the US...we joined to RP so this works great as long as we can continue.

You are most welcome. As Landroval is one of the biggest servers, your characters on Landroval (both yours and your friend's) will likely remain unaffected by the vast majority of the upcoming changes.

Happy RPing!

... believe that everything outside the U.S. border is a dark hole full of unknown dangers and potential terrorists?...

It's not even as though America is the safest when it comes to the internet, either. We get baddies here too. Billions of people around the rest of the globe use the internet, just as "safely" as Americans do.

[Annariel]

Gilrain isn't dead, but it might as well be as a lot of people I play with are saying they are definitely quitting over this. Lots of players who rarely use Global, I know that I for one never ever use global and several others have told me the same. The sense of depression is palpable and players are asking if any or their friends are staying with the game and offering them Gold, mats, cosmetics, etc. in preparation to their quitting. It doesn't sound good, a lot of players I know and play with are quitting once the server closes and I probably will as well if all them quit as they say are going to.

If the total server population is really that small, the solution seems obvious: you could *all* move to the same server. (Assuming that's what everyone wants.)

Since it's not yet clear which servers will close and which won't, it's a bit hard to make concrete plans, but at least you could start putting out a proposal via /world and your server's subforum. I can imagine that there are players who don't belong to any of the major kins but would like to keep sharing a server with them. For those people, it would be nice if someone told them 'this is how you can find out where we're going, and you're welcome to follow us'. If they were considering leaving because they didn't feel up to joining a server without any familiar 'faces', it might help.

[Annariel]

I'm betting the answer will be no, but... if we already did a character transfer by buying the tokens, any chance the new ability to move account-level things will be made available to us? (I left a ton of marks back on Arkenstone, and other stuff, because I couldn't bring it with me to Landroval, and I sure wish I had this feature made available to me now.) But not only do I doubt they'd implement this just for situations like mine, it'd be even more complicated because it would have to combine marks on two servers, not move them, and that might be easy for marks ( destMarks += sourceMarks; ) but it might not be so easy for a lot of other things like the wardrobe.

Does this really require any additional work from the devs? Unless you're out of character slots on your destination server, you could just make a temporary character on the original server. Move that character, select the 'transfer all server-bound items as well' option and there you go. You can delete the temporary character afterwards...

[Thurallor]

Your ISP is seriously not going to block IP addresses whatsoever, unless you live in a communist country. And they most certainly aren't going to block IP addresses of big datacenters anywhere in western Europe.

Are you one of those Americans that really believe that everything outside the U.S. border is a dark hole full of unknown dangers and potential terrorists? Yeah, watch FOX News a little more maybe.

Are you one of those Europeans who thinks CNN or the BBC is less biased than Fox News? Yeah, watch your government-funded nationalistic indoctrination a little more maybe.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

I'm betting the answer will be no, but... if we already did a character transfer by buying the tokens, any chance the new ability to move account-level things will be made available to us? (I left a ton of marks back on Arkenstone, and other stuff, because I couldn't bring it with me to Landroval, and I sure wish I had this feature made available to me now.) But not only do I doubt they'd implement this just for situations like mine, it'd be even more complicated because it would have to combine marks on two servers, not move them, and that might be easy for marks ( destMarks += sourceMarks; ) but it might not be so easy for a lot of other things like the wardrobe.

Vy did mention that if one chooses to transfer before the ability to transfer account-level items is in place, they would have the ability to go back and transfer the things they left behind once it IS in place.