15.2 Player music

[Lolorndinfey]

Yeah. It may be sound card driver conflict created by LotRO? At one point with my GFX disabled I had 6 drivers up listed in my hidden icons. Ouch.

To mitigate snap-pop, only headphones is enabled in Windows "Sound". GFX is disabled. I guess invisible to me GFX is being called either by LotRO or OS, and the idle driver gadget icons are popping up unannounced to me.

GFX is a software enhancement tool with an equalizer band filter. Invaluable during beta testing. Unf there's some kind of conflict when disabled. I'm running it now, but monitoring "Sound" and gadget icon tray for performances.

When you change account windows. After about a 3-5s delay there's this consistent gap in playback if your main account is set to persistent. It lasts about a quarter note or so, then playback resumes.

Just adding this sound driver check into our high maintenance routine before performances. Identified and working around it.

Spinning that hamster wheel as fast as we can!

[SchorschiSchrumpf]

I think there are those two different things, lotro-game-client hickups (in term of short freezes) and snap-pops. The first one might be just something general that has nothing to do with the music itself, the second to me sounds typically like parts of music samples that are played at much higher instead of reduced volume, i.e. they are mixed into the output stream without proper volume adjustment.

Is it possible that it's a synchronization problem of a multi threaded way to mix the sound? I don't know much about windows process management, but maybe there is a way to force lotro to run on a single core only to see if that makes a difference.

[Thurallor]

I think there are those two different things, lotro-game-client hickups (in term of short freezes) and snap-pops. The first one might be just something general that has nothing to do with the music itself, the second to me sounds typically like parts of music samples that are played at much higher instead of reduced volume, i.e. they are mixed into the output stream without proper volume adjustment.

Is it possible that it's a synchronization problem of a multi threaded way to mix the sound?

That was my instinct, too:

In the anomalies I heard, it seemed that the volume of one of the lutes was greatly increased, for maybe 10-20 ms, and then went back to normal.

I have no idea of all of the variables that determine the volume (gain) at any given time, but it seems that there may be a race condition in that logic.

I don't know much about windows process management, but maybe there is a way to force lotro to run on a single core only to see if that makes a difference.

Good idea. It's pretty easy to do in Windows:

• After you enter the game, go back to the desktop and press Control+Shift+Esc to open the Task Manager.
• Click on the Processes tab.
• Find the lotroclient.exe process and right-click on it.
• Choose "Set Affinity...". Here you can select which processor(s) your process will use.

[Lolorndinfey]

Setting Affinity seems to make things worse. Just curious. What other bugs have you encountered that this technique would fix?

CPU used by Lotroclient seems to be standard architecture based for addressing memory, so procs 0, 2, 4, 6 are used on default.
Increasing or decreasing priority is much worse in generating the snap-pop issue. I dont believe this is a symptom of the process, but rather the audio call that is being doubled during the transition to the different priority. For eg. setting priority on all accounts seems to double or more the occurrence of snap-pop per account window.

The occurrence of multiple audio drivers on my end seems to be halted processes of the sound driver trying to access a disabled device, so the gadget icon sits idle.

Just now waiting for Update 16 hot fixes to be released, and then hopefully hearing back from the Ithryn Luin (blue wizards) on this issue.

[Ingleton]

It is not feasible to roll back the system at this point as too many adjustments have been made.

You made a back-up of the old system before you started tinkering with it right?
Please tell me, that you devs, as a people who work in a field where making backups is routine common sense, have made a backup...
If there is no backup - then I'm sorry but imho you deserve to be sacked.


Until we have something we can truly call BETTER instead of the effective NERF we have at present - I want the old system back.


I miss it's timbre, it's life, it's individuality.

[Lolorndinfey]

IDK. Just happy to have identified work arounds to just be able to play an ensemble/multi-part song at this point. Volume adjustments; possible.
Avoiding snap-pop with reduced support ability like double checking the song volume prior to playback using abcmusicplayer not working. meh.
No sound effects during a concert. It's lonely behind the scenes. Just the emotes and say's are visible.

Timbre. One of the reasons I was using GFX (now disabled) was because it added bass, reverb, ambiance, tone to the in game sound samples. Now the only audio enhancement is bass boost inside Windows "Sound" properties. EAX is just.... weird. Side by side vs GFX it's like a good telephone vs 24 track studio quality. I still turn it on when I game normally after a reboot. Part of the checklist to perform prior to playing a concert.

But for us, it's all for the audience. As long as it sounds good and they enjoy it, what we think really isn't in the picture, or performance?
Concert tour this weekend will be delayed due to the Hotfix. At least the U16 hotfix is out. Whether there will be another hotfix before the devs get to re-address the issue, that remains to be seen. And then there's the Weatherstock rotation coming up. it really doesn't sound like it's gonna bode well at this point. Time sensitive issue.

Ever been in a team/camping situation? Leader has spoken. No roll-backs. Help out. Identify problems. Document. Suggest solutions
If you're gonna gripe. I truly wish you luck. I guess you're banking a on a popularity contest. If you choose to gripe, don't do it alone. Get 20, 100, 500... others to agree with you. One tends to be read once and moved along, a group saying the same thing tends to get more attention. Just a suggestion.

What's that phrase again?; Illustrate, tell a story, advise. Don't dictate, scold, command. Judgement is the bane of civilization. Man, I got some homework to do to find the sources of these phrases.

[Ingleton]

Ever been in a team/camping situation? Leader has spoken. No roll-backs.

Still does not change what I said - a backup should have been made. If there is a backup - a roll back is always possible. That fact does not change despite Vyv saying its not "feasible".

Help out. Identify problems. Document. Suggest solutions

I am not musically educated in the slightest, every transcription of mine has been done by ear alone. I have no idea how the music system's inner workings - work...
Therefore I cannot offer "suggestions"
All I can do is complain that it sounds like s***!
So sorry if my lack of education offends you.

One tends to be read once and moved along, a group saying the same thing tends to get more attention.

So sorry, how rude of me to assume my voice would be heard if just little old me writes a post on the forum. It takes but one pebble to start an avalanche...

[robbie1435]

So sorry, how rude of me to assume my voice would be heard if just little old me writes a post on the forum. It takes but one pebble to start an avalanche...

The problem is that the avalanche has already occurred and passed. Bands have stopped playing, people have given up. Fincin has stopped playing his wonderful music. Bruzo and I are stumped, not able to make new songs that sound good.

The time has come to just give up. If our voices mean nothing to them, maybe our wallets will, and I'm fixing to close mine.

[Emere]

The problem is that the avalanche has already occurred and passed. Bands have stopped playing, people have given up. Fincin has stopped playing his wonderful music. Bruzo and I are stumped, not able to make new songs that sound good.

The time has come to just give up. If our voices mean nothing to them, maybe our wallets will, and I'm fixing to close mine.

Thank you for the awesome compliment!
Its true, the avalanche already began. A few main and popular bands have already quit performing and with good cause.
The update was horrible and should have never been put live. Granted, a few sour notes were fixed but as was stated time and time again, the timbre far outweighed the sour notes in importance.
For me, its been a deathblow to my music. Everything sounds lifeless and generic. Someone earlier said you cannot even tell which band is playing anymore since they all sound the same now. I guess this was Turbines way of making music in easy mode for everyone as they have done to so many things already.
They have refused what was most requested from what I could tell in the forums, and that was for another rollback. I couldn't agree more that it was needed and warranted. The new system did show potential but was lacking and should have stayed in beta until it was honed and ready.
My fear is now we will see nothing more done for lack of resources that are now being put into the recent updates bugs. I would like to think I am wrong about that, but its what my gut tells me.

The argument for closing your wallet is a good one however its a two way sword. Less funding will put us further back on the repair list I figure but at the same time, I was paying and ready to go another year when they decided to go live with the new music system. A decision I strongly went against. I cannot at this point see giving money anymore since I now lack the faith in good decisions from the Dev's (or their masters) concerning the music and have chosen to instead, invest in the future music system of Shroud of the Avatar. Its a risky gamble, but no worse than buying another year of VIP here when there is no guarantee it will ever be fixed. For me, I cannot see paying when the music was 90% or more of my play time. Moreover, I am now suffering from a huge increase in my cpu usuage from Turbine which I still have no been able to fix. I could box 8 accounts and my cpu stayed under 65% usage. Now I cannot run more than 3 and I hit well above the 65% usage mark. That alone will keep me from wanting to continue. I have heard a few others say they noticed an increase as well so no telling what is causing it but it needs fixed as well. I bugged it as a performance issue but have heard nothing back since and that was more than a few weeks ago. Lotro is the only game I have that is doing it and if I shut down turbine, my cpu drops back to 0% usage. It feels like being kicked while down.

I wish those that continue, the best of luck. I however will continue my absence from the game until they either fix the music or roll it back.
I would also like to offer a special wish of good luck to the Lonely Mountain Band with Weatherstock this year.
There are a lot of good folks that are getting less than they deserve right now.

[Lolorndinfey]

@Ingleton

Check fire. Same team. Offering suggestions on being heard. I am guilty of offering advice to someone not asking for it. Problem with forums is that you can't tell the tone of the speaker. Just be careful you don't misread and interpret it not as intended and risk a CG violation.

Harlequins already had played 6 concerts, all 21 songs (old and new) converted to Update 16 format. 6 servers. 3 conflicts. Bands are playing. We even offered to take turns and relocated twice to accomodate the other bands. Mother's day. I guess a lot of bands love their mothers too. heh. Just saying. Problem with playing on one server or a few is that you don't get to see the bigger picture Turbine see's. True Landroval is the Carnegie Hall of LotRO for the sheer number of musicians, but there are other bands, on other servers, that are still playing. Happily? That's a matter to gripe about?

I can only do what we can. Cope. offer support. Dodge when other musicians are chucking friendly fire, and hope Vyv lives up to her word and come back and address this issue once U16 hotfixes are done. Time sensitive matter. Remember Vyvyanne?

[robbie1435]

Harlequins already had played 6 concerts, all 21 songs (old and new) converted to Update 16 format. 6 servers. 3 conflicts. Bands are playing. [/IMG]

I'll agree that bands are playing. I would hope the update wouldn't get us ALL down. But there is one thing that has to be remembered: There are MASSIVE BANDS like the TSO. When it's difficult to properly arrange a song that sounds good for 7, I guarantee you that it's near impossible for 24-person bands like TSO. If you only have to worry about a few instruments, 3-6 parts, it's not as bad as dealing with 7+. Definitely.

The bands that are still playing are not the problem. We are the musicians that somehow managed to push through(Albeit our songs sound a lot worse). I'm not saying those who have stopped don't have that same determination, in fact, they probably have MORE determination. They are determined to get their music system fixed, to get their songs sounding the same as Pre-U15.3.

The bands that have stopped playing should NOT be ignored. Again, bands that are still playing are not the problem, bands that AREN'T playing are. The reason? No update should drive players away. If anything, it should bring more in.

I don't care about those still playing. I care about those who are not, those who were driven away by this broken system. That's where the problem lies. That's why the system needs to be fixed.

-Glorg

[Katiepie]

Hi Folks,

I thought I'd update you as to what I am doing at the moment. It is true the quality of the sound fonts makes arranging and playing music less fun for me. I have decided to have a wait and see outlook while continuing with my Monthly Tour of Servers. I have performed with TSO a 14 piece set which was a good set but I had to use all my wits and tricks to make it so. To be honest I wasn't totally happy with my arrangements but It was a tolerable Big Band set. I have also arranged for a smaller band to play more a more modern set, again using my tricks and wits to make a palatable hours worth of arrangements. TSO24 is not possible at this present time, there is no way I want to invest so much time on big arrangement for it to be obsolete within a short period of time. Also TSO is an orchestra which includes all LOTRO instruments - but it is near impossible to work around the Lutes, Bags and other issue in instrument ranges and still have an arrangement I would be proud to present.

I am hopeful we will still get some attention from the Devs. I know we are not forgotten. I don't mind waiting, it gives me time to do some more exploring, deeding, play acting and other aspects of the game.

We play Dwarrowdelf on the 30th May at 2.00pm Server Time. Please come out and support our special performance.

[robbie1435]

We play Dwarrowdelf on the 30th May at 2.00pm Server Time. Please come out and support our special performance.

Well it's not like I'd miss a concert on my home server :P

[Frelorn]

Closing this thread. You can find a new thread here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...em-adjustments