World Transfers

[Nosdracir]

But why do you mention Gwaihir and Sirannon?

No transfers from Gwaihir or Sirannon should be active. And if Estel transfers are closed, no EU player can transfer anywhere.

The launcher is also being used by testers to copy characters to Palantir, so other servers will show up on the list, but if you drill down further you will find they can only copy, and only to Palantir. This, of course, is a bit confusing. I saw all of my servers listed in the launcher and thought I had missed an open transfer announcement.

[Marancil]

Yeah, I also saw both Firefoot listed (where I have all but one Character) and Arkenstone (where I have one Character, being my foothold on Arkenstone), but i saw them as departing worlds, once I looked a bit more I only saw Palantir as receiving world.
I wish Turbine would stick to the plans and not confusing people.

And frankly, I do not care about Palantir being a Beta/Private world, I am not in the Palantir program,
I should not even be able to see the damn thing.

I thought Bullroarer was the "testing" world.

[farmhand99]

there are 2 test worlds...Palantir which is closed testing (by invite only) and Bullroar public testing.

[HairyKrishna]

this wasn't intended by Turbine, it's a bug. Only specifically flagged accounts should be able to character copy to Palantir.

This was reported prior to the weekend (within business hours) but unfortunately was not fixed in time.

[RJFerret]

...except that one of the kin members was expelled from the kinship for reasons or causes unknown.

...

I just think this was kind of strange. Did I miss some warning somewhere?

Hidden in the FAQ and not emphasized enough IMO, is to transfer kin leader first, then house owner, then shared account stuff, and finally remaining characters. If not done in this order, such things may occur, and bound items may be lost (which is tacitly mentioned in the reverse as, "to minimize data loss").

Too tempting is the checkbox to select all, which has caused trouble as it doesn't maintain that order, so any character arriving before the kin is ejected. Best would be if the "select all" were removed entirely in my opinion, so users would then perhaps consider which to transfer, and possibly check if order matters. Even better would be if the order was written on that window!

[cdq1958]

Hidden in the FAQ and not emphasized enough IMO, is to transfer kin leader first, then house owner, then shared account stuff, and finally remaining characters. If not done in this order, such things may occur, and bound items may be lost (which is tacitly mentioned in the reverse as, "to minimize data loss").

Too tempting is the checkbox to select all, which has caused trouble as it doesn't maintain that order, so any character arriving before the kin is ejected. Best would be if the "select all" were removed entirely in my opinion, so users would then perhaps consider which to transfer, and possibly check if order matters. Even better would be if the order was written on that window!

I'd rather the "Select All" remain, for most of my transfers will work quite well that way. For those that might not, I am aware of the recommended order and will use it. Maybe that's what needs more emphasis in the transfer process, indeed, as you've said.

[fezzick]

You transferred all characters at once? This is a valid way to do it but I would always be worried that one or more characters might arrive before the kinship leader character. In that case they will arrive but their kinship doesn't exist yet.
So I would always transfer kinship leader first then house owner then shared account stuff then rest of the characters and always wait until one transfer is done before doing the next. I think that this is the safest way to do the transfers.

Yes I did the whole shebang in one go.

What you suggest seems quite possible and very likely. The expelled character was actually listed before my main (kinship leader) character in the character listings. So it is totally plausible that she arrived on the server before the main who was kinship leader. I would have (to use that awful word) ASSUMED that Turbine would check for kinship leader and move the kinship fact first, but not thinking of that would not surprise me or not providing a warning to the player whose character is the kinship leader. Well, I might not have paid too much attention to a warning.

At least they should provide the capacity, like a bound token, for a character listed as expelled from a kinship as a result of the transfer but that would be of use to sparsely populated kinships since a well-populated kinship would be able to work around that fast.

Thanks

[Mar-Evayave]

this wasn't intended by Turbine, it's a bug. Only specifically flagged accounts should be able to character copy to Palantir.

This was reported prior to the weekend (within business hours) but unfortunately was not fixed in time.

Actually, that is not the case. From what Frelorn said, it is intentional and that those not in the program can just ignore it.

Every single person who has a game account had access to the Bullroarer testing a number of weeks ago. It was specifically testing transferring characters back and forth between Bullroarer and Palantir, including everyone who was interested in beta testing, even if they were not in the Palantir program.

Only the specifically flagged accounts can log into Palantir. The copy feature does not look at their account status (in the very least, it did not during beta testing). I suppose Turbine doesn't care if people are copying there. If they can't log in, there's really no harm done to the secrecy of the program, and it is unlikely to interfere in whatever they are testing in there. Additionally, from here on out, the method to copy to Palantir or Bullroarer will be located in the normal launcher (by all indications). This process used to occur here on the website, but that transfer/copy system is gone, to be replaced specifically by the launcher system. For future BR/Palantir testing, those players are going to need a way to make character copies, and that way is the launcher.

So there really isn't any bug. This is the exact same way it occurred in beta on Bullroarer, and I doubt it will change much in the future. The only thing I could possibly see is splitting the Bullroarer/Palantir destinations as things that only appear if you use the Bullroarer launcher, but there is no guarantee of that.

[Vovo]

Too tempting is the checkbox to select all, which has caused trouble as it doesn't maintain that order, so any character arriving before the kin is ejected. Best would be if the "select all" were removed entirely in my opinion, so users would then perhaps consider which to transfer, and possibly check if order matters. Even better would be if the order was written on that window!

Good idea! A smart and very simple suggestion that shouldn't be too hard for Turbine staff to implement.

I was always taught, and found it to be true, when dealing with large scale projects where the knowledge base of the audience is bound to be varied, but unknown, present simple options, in simple language, aimed at what might be assumed to be the least knowledgeable audience member.

[Marancil]

Actually, that is not the case. From what Frelorn said, it is intentional and that those not in the program can just ignore it.

Every single person who has a game account had access to the Bullroarer testing a number of weeks ago. It was specifically testing transferring characters back and forth between Bullroarer and Palantir, including everyone who was interested in beta testing, even if they were not in the Palantir program.

Only the specifically flagged accounts can log into Palantir. The copy feature does not look at their account status (in the very least, it did not during beta testing). I suppose Turbine doesn't care if people are copying there. If they can't log in, there's really no harm done to the secrecy of the program, and it is unlikely to interfere in whatever they are testing in there. Additionally, from here on out, the method to copy to Palantir or Bullroarer will be located in the normal launcher (by all indications). This process used to occur here on the website, but that transfer/copy system is gone, to be replaced specifically by the launcher system. For future BR/Palantir testing, those players are going to need a way to make character copies, and that way is the launcher.

So there really isn't any bug. This is the exact same way it occurred in beta on Bullroarer, and I doubt it will change much in the future. The only thing I could possibly see is splitting the Bullroarer/Palantir destinations as things that only appear if you use the Bullroarer launcher, but there is no guarantee of that.

Hmm...pfff... ok. But it does not say in the dev docs regarding transfer and closure as far as I have seen and I have read those up and down and down and up and left to right and right to left at least a couple of times a week now.

[RetNavy2001]

Why is Plantir the only server opened to transfer to?

[Amrundir]

Why is Plantir the only server opened to transfer to?

It isn't. It's the one, you can copy to.

At the time writing this post, Elendilmir is the only server you can transfer from. No characters on Elendilmir - no transfer.

this wasn't intended by Turbine, it's a bug. Only specifically flagged accounts should be able to character copy to Palantir.

From what I've seen, that's not possible with current transfer system. (see below)

Actually, that is not the case. From what Frelorn said, it is intentional and that those not in the program can just ignore it.
...
The copy feature does not look at their account status (in the very least, it did not during beta testing).

Enabling copy/transfer in launcher is a 3 step process:

1. launcher config: tells launcher (not) to show transfer button
2. transfer config: general information about transfer/copy enabled servers
3. character data: fetched by launcher using your account id

The query for the XML in step 2 is not account specific. I created a web-page based on that data. (Just plain HTML, no formatting. Feel free to send me a CSS ) There you can see, which server are enabled for copy/transfer.

Only in step 3 your Account-ID is used to get your character information. But if some characters/servers are missing in the server response (like Estel atm), they will not be shown in the launcher transfer tool, even if the server is enabled in step 2.

[Urwendil]

It would help to print the recommended transfer order into the transfer wizard at the character selection screen. Like "It is recommended that you transfer your kinship leaders first, house owners second, shared data third, and remaining characters after that."

[Marancil]

Keywords: Information presentation and consolidation.

Since this is a dynamic process.

[maartena]

It would help to print the recommended transfer order into the transfer wizard at the character selection screen. Like "It is recommended that you transfer your kinship leaders first, house owners second, shared data third, and remaining characters after that."

Since information seems to change every other day, it's very easy to have outdated information very quickly in the launcher or transfer wizard. I know the launcher itself checks a XML file somewhere online, but the transfer wizard probably needs to be patched. Maybe they could put in a link to the forum or website, something that gets updated dynamically all the time.

[aranen]

Hey Frelorn I know people ask this a lot but could we have an update on what world is up for transfer next or if there are any changes?

[maartena]

Hey Frelorn I know people ask this a lot but could we have an update on what world is up for transfer next or if there are any changes?

The server order listed here still stands: https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...e-announcement

So the next servers should be Riddermark (US) and Gilrain (EU).

WHEN this will actually happen, I don't know. I had hoped that they would do 1 server a week and be done by Thanksgiving, but they decided on some other schedule that isn't known to us. Last week Frelorn said that there wouldn't be a new transfer starting this week so they could analyze data (and possibly change the forum ban issue), so we will have to wait and see.

[Marancil]

Why before Thanksgiving?
Stop trying to impose US Holidays on the schedule... frankly, I couldn't care less when it happens as long as it happens and as soon as safely possible. Code and Servers are not ruled by Holidays. One may have an ambition to make an effort before a certain date, but you know as well as I that may move either way in the calendar.

[Frelorn]

Hey Frelorn I know people ask this a lot but could we have an update on what world is up for transfer next or if there are any changes?

We will have the announcement on the next servers and the dates tomorrow morning.

[Wirbel]

Why before Thanksgiving?
Stop trying to impose US Holidays on the schedule... frankly, I couldn't care less when it happens as long as it happens and as soon as safely possible. Code and Servers are not ruled by Holidays. One may have an ambition to make an effort before a certain date, but you know as well as I that may move either way in the calendar.

It is logical to expect US holidays to impact the schedules of a US company.

*the sales, precious*

[Marancil]

So how many EU customers again?

Yeah, well, I know that a lot of people have fallen for the globalization of US Holidays like Thanksgiving and Halloween, but I consider that moot as long as the US do not respect...hmm, lets say the Spanish Celebration of the Arrival of the Three Kings to Jesus' Cradle on January 6. Or the Swedish tradition to open the Christmas gifts on the 24th instead of the 25th. Or any number of national holidays or UN imposed "international days of this and that". Don't get me started. If you have a global customer base, the easiest and best thing to do is to just ignore holidays, when they may affect customers, thus treating all in the same way.

[maartena]

Why before Thanksgiving?
Stop trying to impose US Holidays on the schedule... frankly, I couldn't care less when it happens as long as it happens and as soon as safely possible. Code and Servers are not ruled by Holidays. One may have an ambition to make an effort before a certain date, but you know as well as I that may move either way in the calendar.

The reason why that might be important is that Thanksgiving, travel wise, vacation wise, is more important to the USA than any other holiday including Christmas. Thanksgiving is on a Thursday, Friday is always a day off, and people travel usually on a Tuesday or Wednesday. Many people take the entire week off, and some companies run on a lower support schedule for that week. Many companies have deadlines for projects to be finished before that week, because they know that if it gets in to that week, projects will be delayed for that week as you won't get much work done.

For Turbine, it probably means that THAT week, you will have a MUCH slower response to tickets in regards to failed transfers, kinship name changes, etc.... so they probably wouldn't want to schedule a server merge during that week. Since they also had said they were scheduling the server hardware upgrades for "late fall", a holiday that could disrupt a full work week becomes very important to all players, regardless of where you are in the world.

I have a feeling that they will have taken this into account, and based on last week's experience, they may implement a Monday/Thursday schedule, making the transfers a lot quicker. We can only wait till tomorrow morning and see what they come up with.

[Rainwen]

So how many EU customers again?

Yeah, well, I know that a lot of people have fallen for the globalization of US Holidays like Thanksgiving and Halloween, but I consider that moot as long as the US do not respect...hmm, lets say the Spanish Celebration of the Arrival of the Three Kings to Jesus' Cradle on January 6. Or the Swedish tradition to open the Christmas gifts on the 24th instead of the 25th. Or any number of national holidays or UN imposed "international days of this and that". Don't get me started. If you have a global customer base, the easiest and best thing to do is to just ignore holidays, when they may affect customers, thus treating all in the same way.

Seriously, you troll a lot...probably just frustration and you aren't the only one. There are quite a few global work holidays...get you started? these what you mean?{ http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/} , sadly some countries only give holidays according to pay grades with a lot of countries having a sweat shop culture where there are none. GB the USA ....now get a grip and let the devs do their thang...they will anyway, lol.

[maartena]

So how many EU customers again?

Yeah, well, I know that a lot of people have fallen for the globalization of US Holidays like Thanksgiving and Halloween, but I consider that moot as long as the US do not respect...hmm, lets say the Spanish Celebration of the Arrival of the Three Kings to Jesus' Cradle on January 6. Or the Swedish tradition to open the Christmas gifts on the 24th instead of the 25th. Or any number of national holidays or UN imposed "international days of this and that". Don't get me started. If you have a global customer base, the easiest and best thing to do is to just ignore holidays, when they may affect customers, thus treating all in the same way.

They are a US based company and therefore they go by US holidays when it comes to assigning their staff. NO other country's holiday will be, and should be taken into account. I am sure that if you are a Dutch company you won't have support on King's Day either, and if you are a Chinese company you may shut down during the entire week of Chinese New Year.

That is just the way it works with global companies. I work for a company with a presence in every continent except Australia, many different countries, and every week there is SOME office closed SOMEwhere in the world because of a local holiday. If you need the US office, don't expect anyone to answer the phone on July 4th, and if you need the Brazilian office don't expect anyone to answer on May 1st (hell, try and get any work done by the Brazilian office in the week of Carnival.... NOT happening! ), and if you need the Dutch office don't expect a reply on April 27th, etc....

Why would a US based company need to "respect" other holidays? Are you telling me other countries keep their offices open on Christmas to support their clients in Iran because that's just a normal working day there?

[Mar-Evayave]

We will have the announcement on the next servers and the dates tomorrow morning.

It's a good thing I don't pull hair out when I get too eager about something, else I'd be bald by now. xD

Any possibility of new worlds open to transfers mid-week? Must we really wait until next Monday or (Eru forbid) even later?

#reallywantsoffRiddermark

Hmm...pfff... ok. But it does not say in the dev docs regarding transfer and closure as far as I have seen and I have read those up and down and down and up and left to right and right to left at least a couple of times a week now.

I don't see why it would. Only those in the Palantir program would know the details of the current testing, and Turbine isn't going to broadcast that in the dev diaries. This was partially true even during beta. Non-Palantir players could use the copy system back and forth between BR and Palantir, but they still were not allowed to actually log into Palantir. Using the copy feature didn't look at their account status. Attempting to log in would.