LOTRO is gone! (according to Game of War)

[ManaBone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgkoz5EZTok

at like 1:25

This really came as a shock. It was a good run, but the game is gone. I am concerned now that I seem to be having vivid hallucinations of logging into and playing the game.

Seriously though, it's a shame to see matpat sell out / become incredibly lazy. You'd think in searching for the LOTRO logo to put it in the video google would also reveal something about the game's continuing existence.

[GerkinPickle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgkoz5EZTok

at like 1:25

This really came as a shock. It was a good run, but the game is gone. I am concerned now that I seem to be having vivid hallucinations of logging into and playing the game.

Seriously though, it's a shame to see matpat sell out / become incredibly lazy. You'd think in searching for the LOTRO logo to put it in the video google would also reveal something about the game's continuing existence.

I was going to respond but then I started thinking about that Game of War chick's boobs and I got disoriented.

[Laerien]

What is a shame is jump into conclusions or try to make a point based on a random trollish youtube video.

[Macroscian]

I saw that on reddit. The general commentary seemed to say 'clickbait advert' and 'sponsored by some mobile 2.5d game'.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

My son is a big "Clash of Clans" fan and in some respects that game has many of the characteristics of a more traditional MMO - such as clan (guild/kin) based activities, social aspects and the never-ending "grind" - it's just the game industry evolving to take advantage of the prevalence of mobile devices and younger audiences. The massively multiplayer online genre became too closely associated with the WoW / EverQuest / do quests / run dungeons paradigm and there's no reason that MMOs cannot develop as delivery mediums and audience preferences continue to evolve.

[Hammadryad]

Lotro is shutting down 2/3 of its servers in a massive cutback. You surely didn't think that would go unnoticed did you? Of course it is going to be regarded as virtually the end of Lotro as an MMO and that it will fold completely soon. Whether that is true or not is irrelelvant, it is what will be perceived to be true. It is up to Turbine now to prove that it was a faulty perception and not allow it to be made reality.

[Stilgaard]

Lotro is shutting down 2/3 of its servers in a massive cutback.

Company I work for used to occupy 3 small cramped warehouse type buildings where some didn't' even have proper desks.

They spent millions to build a single corporate headquarters with room enough for everyone and to to add another ~1000 people in the future.

Clearly it's a warning sign that because they are "shutting down" 2/3 of the buildings that things are bad for the company....

[Linathrial]

"LOTRO is gone! (according to Game of War)"

Wait.........who? o.O

Game of war? Never heard of um.

Oh. wait, isn't that the game where models are flashing their boobies all over the place, diverting the viewers attention away from the game because it sucks so bad?

Ya, alrighty then. That kid in the youtube video is a hoot....so is proclaiming Lotro is dead and Game of war is the bestest thing since sliced bread and mom's apple pie.

Game of war....Dumpster material.

Lotro....come on man! Been playing this game for almost 4 years now and still love it. The best!

What's next, Farmville beats out Lotro in the new gallop poll researches suggest? o.O LOL!

[Nymphonic]

After having that small stroke and heart attack one after another 3 or 4 years ago, I don't worry about stuff like this. If the game dies, it dies.

I'll still have 8 years of wonderful memories.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

...

Game of war....Dumpster material.

Lotro....come on man! Been playing this game for almost 4 years now and still love it. The best!

What's next, Farmville beats out Lotro in the new gallop poll researches suggest? o.O LOL!

...

WB & Turbine would kill to get lotro making even a fraction of the profits that those two games above generate. You might also want to recall that WB & Turbine's latest fad is to focus on mobile development.

[Mar-Evayave]

WB & Turbine would kill to get lotro making even a fraction of the profits that those two games above generate. You might also want to recall that WB & Turbine's latest fad is to focus on mobile development.

The (IMO) disgusting thing is that this is probably true.

Farmville is (again, IMO) 100% stupid, as are the majority of the other facebook games. Only one I ever really liked is the scrabble game you can play with friends. That at least could help keep the brain juices flowing.

And the thought of things going to mobile games and gearing towards younger audiences is similarly stupid. At least when it comes at the expense of what's already out here. If we get stuck with mobile farmvilles and no more LOTRO, SWTOR, Rift, EverQuest, ArcheAge, STO, etc... ugh...

[BangoTwinkletoes]

The (IMO) disgusting thing is that this is probably true.

Farmville is (again, IMO) 100% stupid, as are the majority of the other facebook games. Only one I ever really liked is the scrabble game you can play with friends. That at least could help keep the brain juices flowing.

And the thought of things going to mobile games and gearing towards younger audiences is similarly stupid. At least when it comes at the expense of what's already out here. If we get stuck with mobile farmvilles and no more LOTRO, SWTOR, Rift, EverQuest, ArcheAge, STO, etc... ugh...

It's not stupid if you don't personally like the design and style of the game, but no one can deny that games such as those have shown that money does indeed grow on trees - http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analy...ion-71617.html

However there is more than enough room for lots of different genres of game - whether pc, console or mobile based. What we all have to be aware of though is how the success of mobile games influences the design of lotro.

[djheydt]

"The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
-- Mark Twain

[mr_toad]

5 years ago on these forums many posters predicted LOTRO's soon and pending demise. 5 years later different posters names, same doom predictions. $100,000's is likely being spent on server and data center upgrades, development budget for this game still has to be substantial for the regions they continue to put out, and LOTRO must therefore be making some money even if cost cutting measures are being enacted to make even more profit. I predict 5 years from now different poster names will be predicting LOTRO's demise. I guess if they keep doing it year after year eventually they'll be right in the same way a broken clock is right.

[Mar-Evayave]

It's not stupid if you don't personally like the design and style of the game, but no one can deny that games such as those have shown that money does indeed grow on trees - http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analy...ion-71617.html

However there is more than enough room for lots of different genres of game - whether pc, console or mobile based. What we all have to be aware of though is how the success of mobile games influences the design of lotro.

I just don't see the appeal, personally. Clearly I'm biased, but at least playing MMOs can help teach you things like strategy and coordination. I don't see what benefits farmville have beyond pure, undiluted entertainment (for those to whom it appeals, anyway). So you could waste away hours on farmville (which is very addicting, from what I've heard of those who do play it), or actually challenge your braincells by playing games like MMOs.

Even tic-tac-toe takes more brain juice to play than farmville.

I just hope that mobile games don't push MMOs out. Even if I had a nice, shiny high-tech phone or tablet, trying to play something on that tiny screen is ridiculous. I like my big monitor so I can see lots of details, and I've yet to encounter any interface that provides as much versatility as a good old fashioned keyboard and mouse.

[Bagonia]

I believe nothing said by a game that uses Mariah Scarey as their spokesperson.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I just don't see the appeal, personally. Clearly I'm biased, but at least playing MMOs can help teach you things like strategy and coordination. I don't see what benefits farmville have beyond pure, undiluted entertainment (for those to whom it appeals, anyway). So you could waste away hours on farmville (which is very addicting, from what I've heard of those who do play it), or actually challenge your braincells by playing games like MMOs.

Even tic-tac-toe takes more brain juice to play than farmville.

I just hope that mobile games don't push MMOs out. Even if I had a nice, shiny high-tech phone or tablet, trying to play something on that tiny screen is ridiculous. I like my big monitor so I can see lots of details, and I've yet to encounter any interface that provides as much versatility as a good old fashioned keyboard and mouse.

The point is is that whilst you, I and no doubt others here don't see the attraction of Farmville, a lot of others do - to the tune of $1b in total revenues according to that link. It's all down to personal preferences, though I'm sure there are a more than a few who will argue that lotro is also boring and doesn't require any braincells - well at least the HD quests didn't!!!

[Bulbous]

Lotro is shutting down 2/3 of its servers in a massive cutback. You surely didn't think that would go unnoticed did you?

LOTRO is investing heavily in hardware to host the remaining servers in a massive expansion. You surely didn't think that would go unnoticed, did you?

Well, maybe... opponents of things like to do things like focus out the negatives and leave out key details.

[Evelwyn]

There seems to be a itch in some people to bury LOTRO.

[Hurin]

MMOs aren't dying. They're just evolving into a thing that only freakin' suckers will play.

"So you don't want to pay $15/month to play our game? Okay, why don't we let you play for free, and then intentionally make some aspects of the game so annoying that you'll pay us even more to avoid them and get back to the parts you enjoy?"

Or. . .

"You don't want to pay the cost of two burritos for hour upon hour of entertainment this month? Well, just come and play the game for free and we'll all pretend that the game's design isn't being subverted to extract money from you instead of being designed to be fun."

I've said before, LotRO is my last MMO (UO was my first in 1997/98-ish). And I'm only sticking with it because it didn't start this way, the hooks are already in, and it's Middle-earth.

To play an MMO nowadays is to volunteer to be manipulated and farmed. People tell themselves they're signing up to play a game. But you're not signing up for a compelling game experience like you did when the agreement was: "Here's $15 for this month, now how good can you make this game?". . . now the agreement is: "I won't pay you anything up front, so you should feel free to manipulate the in-game economy, make the game a grind-fest, and cater to the lowest common denominator to extract money from me."

I honestly think that if more people understood the fundamental concepts underpinning the Free-to-Play or Freemium business model, nearly everyone would demand that games operate on the subscription model where such perverse design incentives don't exist.

But instead we lie to ourselves and make excuses for the excesses of the model. That is, when we even admit such perverse incentives exist.

In a nutshell. . .

Subscription = Paying them to create a game you enjoy playing.
Free-to-Play = Paying them to avoid playing parts of the game you don't enjoy, thus ensuring that they'll continue creating that very content.

As I said, only suckers would knowingly choose the latter.

[OldMadeOfLions]

But you're not signing up for a compelling game experience like you did when the agreement was: "Here's $15 for this month, now how good can you make this game?"

This section sets off my own personal alarm-bells, because I've been designing content for LOTRO since 2005 and I've never been expected to change my design because of the business model. In fact, I think it's safe to say that if the Store really did force our designs, the Ballad of Bingo Boffin would be something you'd need to buy, either outright or in pieces.

My number one priority is making content that fits into a convincing Middle-earth, and I think it's a testament to the Powers That Be that they don't mandate I make my content in a certain way. The Epic Story would play out exactly the same under a subscription model. If anything, feedback from you guys over the years has informed my design much more than any commands from high up the chain.

MoL

[peachykins]

There seems to be a itch in some people to bury LOTRO.

LOL I just had to comment on the pic. When dogs do that, most will go in a straight line, my dog spins around in a circle. It's just hilarious.

[Hurin]

This section sets off my own personal alarm-bells, because I've been designing content for LOTRO since 2005 and I've never been expected to change my design because of the business model. In fact, I think it's safe to say that if the Store really did force our designs, the Ballad of Bingo Boffin would be something you'd need to buy, either outright or in pieces.

My number one priority is making content that fits into a convincing Middle-earth, and I think it's a testament to the Powers That Be that they don't mandate I make my content in a certain way. The Epic Story would play out exactly the same under a subscription model. If anything, feedback from you guys over the years has informed my design much more than any commands from high up the chain.

MoL

I fully believe you, and respect you, your talent, and your hard work (as I've written many times prior). But unless I'm mistaken (and I write this humbly), you're primarily in charge of the stories we experience. But you're not primarily involved in the design of the game's systems to which I'm referring. . . the things we do when we're finished enjoying the wonderful fruits of your labor. Things like the Legendary Item system. Stat Tomes. The Virtue system. The Big Battles system. And so on. . .

I don't think the "powers that be" are telling you how to write your stories. And certainly they resist the temptation to bend everything to the Store's influence (and they should be applauded for that). But can you honestly say that the existence of the Store and the ability to purchase in-game items outright/instantly doesn't exert some pressure on the difficulty of obtaining those items through gameplay alone? Items such as Stat Tomes, and so many others. . .

Even in a perfect world where the "powers that be" and the Store's pressure upon such things is resisted 100% of the time, it's lamentable that such a pressure even exists (and it does not exist under a subscription model). But, again, I'm talking about the systems, the "grinds" for a lack of a better word. I'm not referring to your (excellent) work as far as I understand it.

Best Regards,

H

Edit: Re-reading your reply, I may have misread "alarm bells". . . I read that as "what you wrote here has angered me". . . but you may in fact have been merely saying that this aspect of the F2P model would trouble you if it influenced your work (which it thankfully doesn't, apparently). Sorry if the above seemed overly defensive. Suffice it to say that your work is amazing and we're all happy it's largely immune to the "corrupting influence" of the F2P model on other aspects of an MMO. And as I've said before, Turbine is full of good and decent people doing exactly what they should be doing. Turbine had to convert to the F2P model. As the more lucrative option, it would have been business malpractice not to embrace F2P. The responsibility for the direction the MMO industry has taken (towards F2P) is the result of players settling for it. Even demanding it. Turbine is merely giving us what we want and are willing to pay for. . . I just think we woulnd't want it or pay for it if more of us understood it more fully.

[TheCrossbow]

I was talking with a friend the other day about the possibility of designing LOTRO in such a way that it could be made [at least] tablet-friendly so that you could enjoy the game "on the go" more easily. I would not expect to be able to do much grouping using a tablet. But, I would think it could allow for you to manage a good deal of solo activity... You can potentially reach about level 30 or so without really needing to adventure into group content.
After all, tablets have been coming along in terms of good graphics, etc. And, the battery life is getting so much better. Plus, how much easier is it to carry a tablet with you than even most laptops?

I would think that Turbine could design a LOTRO app which could either be free or low cost... and market the game on an additional platform. Because, LOTRO really is the only game of its kind on the market.

The only aspect of LOTRO that would be problematic for mobile gaming is mounted combat (besides group play). But, maybe it can be smoothed out enough.

[OldMadeOfLions]

But, again, I'm talking about the systems, the "grinds" for a lack of a better word.

I'm not a systems designer, so I don't have any special insight on that side of things -- but I do know that at the launch of the game, many of the systems (and some of the content!) was intended to keep players playing for as long as possible, as you might expect. When we first created the Trollshaws, there were regular non-deed quests to defeat 40 or 50 enemies at once, and few of us batted an eye. It was an MMO staple, and we weren't comfortable breaking away from it until we'd been at it for awhile. I don't deny that our game has elements of grinding in it! I do deny that there's a nefarious purpose to separate you from your money.

MoL