World Transfers

[Mar-Evayave]

Because somebody actually got something good from hobbit gifts?only useful so far in all this time - fate IV and one xp tome that i didn't even use

Such is RNG.

I've gotten loads of useful things. I think my most recent goodie was maybe a star-lit crystal? A kinmate got a Crystal of Remembrance just yesterday.

But the more servers one rolls the dice on, the better chances of getting the nice things. So yeah, I can imagine a lot of people might be doing this if Turbine permits it.

[Vyvyanne]

I imagine it is more or less impossible to transfer the live data while the live data is still active. What kind of downtime (for data transfer) are you anticipating for when the new hardware goes live?

There is actually a lot of data that can be moved before hand by taking a snapshot of the past 8 years and moving that and then just doing a transfer of the difference when we are ready to do the actual switch over. Currently the estimates I am getting have the downtime being no longer than a normal update downtime of a few hours.


As for the naming policy, CS and Frelorn are currently working on updating the websites with the new policy, I just wanted to give the information here to answer the question. More official notice will be posted soon.

[peachykins]

Because somebody actually got something good from hobbit gifts?only useful so far in all this time - fate IV and one xp tome that i didn't even use

Not too long ago I got 200 mithril coins from my weekly gold present. I have gotten that a few times.

[Mar-Evayave]

There is actually a lot of data that can be moved before hand by taking a snapshot of the past 8 years and moving that and then just doing a transfer of the difference when we are ready to do the actual switch over. Currently the estimates I am getting have the downtime being no longer than a normal update downtime of a few hours.

Fantastic. I figured the same method of rolling back data (Eru forbid that ever happens) could potentially be used to move the data from one set of hardware to another.

[maartena]

Not too long ago I got 200 mithril coins from my weekly gold present. I have gotten that a few times.

Yep! I got 200 mithril coins on Gladden a few months back. Those got moved to Arkenstone in that 48 hour transfer window.... there's only about 130-ish of those left.

[maartena]

I imagine it is more or less impossible to transfer the live data while the live data is still active. What kind of downtime (for data transfer) are you anticipating for when the new hardware goes live?

Speaking from experience in server migrations, the way this is typically done is you setup a mirror of your virtual machines from location A to location B, which takes an exact replica of the current server data and keeps it up to date on the new hardware. Once they are ready to do the cutover, only the last few differences will have to be replicated over. In THEORY, depending on how things are setup, this could be mere minutes. Of course this is a much bigger setup with many wheels that need to turn in the right direction, so I would expect something along the lines of 6 hours.

The bigger issue is probably going to be DNS replication on the client ISP side. If you are unlucky enough to have a lousy ISP with lousy DNS replication, it could take up to 24 hours before your ISP is aware of the new IP address range in the New Jersey and Amsterdam datacenters when they try to resolve lotro.com or turbine.com back-end hosts. This can partially be resolved by using a better DNS server (such as the public Google ones which are updated much more rapidly), but I would expect some problems. There could also be local clients that use cached DNS first, and you may have to do a manual IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS on your machine to force it to look for new IP addresses.

[Erroldor]

As part of the server merges, we are aware that there are many people who are entering Laurelin and Belegaer without a full understanding of the rules for a roleplay server. These servers have enforced roleplay names. This means that any name that falls outside of those rules is subject to change. This can come as a shock to those who have played for years with a name they are attached to but which falls outside of these rules.
Until December 31st 2015, we will attempt to practice a relaxed version of the naming rules as though the servers were just like the ones who do not enforce roleplay names. I would encourage those who plan to call these roleplay enforced servers their home to contact In-Game Support to request a rename token as part of a proactive approach to avoid a naming violation. In 2016, the naming policy will revert to the original roleplay enforced version and your name will be subject to those rules.

Vyvyanne, I must say that I am very disappointed by this. It seems that you are kicking the can down the road rather than going ahead and dealing with the problem as you originally promised to do. Many of the original residents of Laurelin and Belegaer likely chose these servers SPECIFICALLY because of the RP conventions in place. I know that I did. There have been several vocal complaints about having forced name changes within a very short time of first logging in to the RP server. These complaints will remain and even gain some credibility if people are allowed to retain their lore violating names for months.

But rather than simply complain, here is a suggestion: When naming violations are reported and deemed to be valid complaints, issue a renaming token and contact the violator (either direct by the GM or automated via in-game mail, or both) and let them know they have two weeks to select a new name or request a server move. If neither happens, go ahead with the forced change. This should resolve the issue of surprise forced name changes and give folks with inappropriate names an opportunity to make a decision as to what server they wish to make their new home. At the same time the residents of Laurelin and Belegaer who have chosen these servers for their rule sets will not be subjected to months of Iponznewbz or Lukkeskywalkerr.

[elvenes]

Chill out, is just till 2016...

[maartena]

Vyvyanne, I must say that I am very disappointed by this. It seems that you are kicking the can down the road rather than going ahead and dealing with the problem as you originally promised to do. Many of the original residents of Laurelin and Belegaer likely chose these servers SPECIFICALLY because of the RP conventions in place. I know that I did. There have been several vocal complaints about having forced name changes within a very short time of first logging in to the RP server. These complaints will remain and even gain some credibility if people are allowed to retain their lore violating names for months.

But rather than simply complain, here is a suggestion: When naming violations are reported and deemed to be valid complaints, issue a renaming token and contact the violator (either direct by the GM or automated via in-game mail, or both) and let them know they have two weeks to select a new name or request a server move. If neither happens, go ahead with the forced change. This should resolve the issue of surprise forced name changes and give folks with inappropriate names an opportunity to make a decision as to what server they wish to make their new home. At the same time the residents of Laurelin and Belegaer who have chosen these servers for their rule sets will not be subjected to months of Iponznewbz or Lukkeskywalkerr.

It's temporary. It will give new immigrants the opportunity to adjust themselves to the new rules without the "name police" reporting the names on first sight. The current naming rules will go back in effect in January 2016. If you can't deal with this temporary situation in order to allow everyone to adjust to lore friendly names of THEIR choosing, you should probably just play something else for a few months.

[spelunker]

There are technical limitations to this and we also found that there is too much room for abuse if we allow endless free transfers between the worlds, which is why we have gone with this plan: 3 free moves should you be unhappy with your initial choice and the occasional window of free moves like what we are doing for Brandywine and Evernight now, where moves are one direction only.

There are technical limitations to limiting the number of moves made by an account, I assume you mean, as there is clearly no limitation on providing an account with free xfer tokens.

The abuse that happened in your live server beta trial run was with people transferring back and forth and back and forth ad nauseam. Whether you give 1 free token, or 1 for every character slot a player has, this abuse would not be possible like with the previous system, as there is a VERY finite number of character slots people can have.

Your previous statements on this topic read very much as the weekend live beta process where players on the 5 remaining servers could move around as they wished was something they would not be stuck with. You also made it sound as though people would be able to make a second move if they weren't happy with their first. Heck, even people who sent a single character to each surviving server as a means to check the server out will now be forced to pay real money, to re-consolidate their characters.

The occasional window aspect has nothing to do with the conversation, as that is something that may or may not even happen, particularly for specific server move combinations. If anything, the current offer for people to freely move from BW or Evernight to one of the 4 other servers in the respective region is a potential trap for players, as a major move cannot necessarily be undone (if more than 3 characters are moved) and server populations and dynamics are still in major flux with less than half of the closing servers having moved so far.

You've made a lot of attempts at transparency and keeping things on the up and up with this process, and clearly its not an easy one; but making these moves, making at best unclear and undefined promises, and then making final policy choices mid-stream has been a pretty sour turn of things. People should have been able to know they were making moves that they would have no opportunity to un-do. Up to this point I think many people were given the impression once the new hardware was installed and all closing servers cleared, there would be a final chance to make a choice for free.

[maartena]

People should have been able to know they were making moves that they would have no opportunity to un-do. Up to this point I think many people were given the impression once the new hardware was installed and all closing servers cleared, there would be a final chance to make a choice for free.

And you still may. As she said, there will be "transfer weekends" to rebalance the population in which free transfers are allowed. Also, she had mentioned previously that they didn't know "how free it would be" when it came to transfers between the 5 remaining servers, because when the 48 hour free transfers happened they discovered exploits and methods to abuse the system.

The message is pretty clear: If you are moving from a closing server to one of the remaining 5, make sure you will want to go to THAT server, because if you are thinking of "hopping" on a server now, and to Brandywine later, you may have to pay. That has also been the message from Vyvyanne for many weeks: If you want to go to a server that is currently closed, such as Brandywine, WAIT on your current server so you get to transfer for free.

I'm actually quite happy with the proposed system, especially that free transfer weekends will be included. I'm sure that before the year is ending, we will have had one of those free transfer weekends so people DO get a chance to redistribute.

[lugbur]

I'm actually quite happy with the proposed system, especially that free transfer weekends will be included. I'm sure that before the year is ending, we will have had one of those free transfer weekends so people DO get a chance to redistribute.

the problem i see with the free transfer weekends, is we will never know which server you can transfer off of. some servers may never see this. i personally moved a character to each of the remaining worlds, to see how they fared, and now some of those characters will be stuck on worlds i have absolutely 0 interest in playing on. its just a massive disincentive. i wanted a change from brandywine, but i have so many characters spread out now, i will basically have to re-level/rank(for creeps) all of them.

i think 1 free transfer per character slot would have been a better option personally, although i obviously dont know if this would even be a possible solution

[maartena]

the problem i see with the free transfer weekends, is we will never know which server you can transfer off of. some servers may never see this. i personally moved a character to each of the remaining worlds, to see how they fared, and now some of those characters will be stuck on worlds i have absolutely 0 interest in playing on. its just a massive disincentive. i wanted a change from brandywine, but i have so many characters spread out now, i will basically have to re-level/rank(for creeps) all of them.

i think 1 free transfer per character slot would have been a better option personally, although i obviously dont know if this would even be a possible solution

The way I read it is that when a transfer weekend happens, it is for all remaining servers, not just for 1 server.

As far as wanting a change from Brandywine, do it NOW! They opened up transfers from Brandywine and Evernight today. (From, not to).

[MessyR]

The new hardware is coming along great. We have all the equipment in place and built out and are now onto the arduous task of moving all of the software and data from the old hardware to new, making sure connections are correct, running QA tests etc. We should be having a load test on the new Bullroarer Beta world soon and will make announcements about it as soon as we have a date locked down. The aim is to have everything completed and live before the US Thanksgiving holiday. In the meantime we are monitoring the Evernight population closely, have added some additional hardware resources to it to increase capacity and if we start seeing issues we might have to slow down transfers, but we hope it will not come to that as I know everyone on the closing worlds is looking forward to their opportunity to transfer.

Not many places people will transfer off to, so i dont think we will see many move on

[Pfeifenkraut]

As part of the server merges, we are aware that there are many people who are entering Laurelin and Belegaer without a full understanding of the rules for a roleplay server. These servers have enforced roleplay names. This means that any name that falls outside of those rules is subject to change. This can come as a shock to those who have played for years with a name they are attached to but which falls outside of these rules.
Until December 31st 2015, we will attempt to practice a relaxed version of the naming rules as though the servers were just like the ones who do not enforce roleplay names. I would encourage those who plan to call these roleplay enforced servers their home to contact In-Game Support to request a rename token as part of a proactive approach to avoid a naming violation. In 2016, the naming policy will revert to the original roleplay enforced version and your name will be subject to those rules.

Hi Vyvyanne!

There should have always been a one-sentence explanation in the character generator (either in a small box on one screen on all servers, or as a pop-up when creating a character on an RP server) about the naming policy for RP servers. If someone could please add that, it would be helpful for the future.

I'm worred about what will happen to the communities on Laurelin and Belegaer over the next few months, as the naming policy is almost the entirety of what defines these communities. Already on Laurelin since this announcement there's been the creation of a bunch of new characters with goofy names, some of which are done solely to mock the roleplayers. I think you're going to have a big problem come January when you find that very few people were pro-active about changes or made an effort to settle in, and just played as they like. I could be wrong, but I think you're going to be absolutely flooded with tickets come January, both from the regular community trying to reestablish itself with name and behaviour reports and the newer people that don't care about the RP rules responding in outrage; sort of a delayed fight made all the larger for having the extra time to work up to it.

I'm also very worried about how much outrage there has been in the forums lately against the existence of the RP servers in general, or all roleplayers, or just a select few roleplayers (depending on which posts you read). It's been mostly one-sided from what I've read, mostly from a handful of people generating a lot of posts, and some of it is going way too far. It's great that you're implementing a system for a while to try and support people on one side of the issue, but it would be wonderful if you could do something to help support people on the other side of the issue. This could be as simple as just making a statement asking people to tone down their posts. There's been a lot of hate aimed at the supporters of the RP servers, and it shouldn't be okay to tell the roleplayers to go play another game instead of LotRO or any of the other dismissive or hurtful things that have been said. The people that have always been there on these RP servers should still feel welcome on their servers, and if you read the forums lately, that sentiment is not there. One supportive phrase could do wonders for morale. <3

Speaking of which: I love you and all the LotRO team, and can't think of another game-making group I'd rather support than you guys!

[lugbur]

The way I read it is that when a transfer weekend happens, it is for all remaining servers, not just for 1 server.

As far as wanting a change from Brandywine, do it NOW! They opened up transfers from Brandywine and Evernight today. (From, not to).

well i certainly hope you're right about the transfer weekends. my point was though, about wanting a change though, is if i wanted to move characters of the servers i have no interest in playing on, i dont even have enough transfers to do that. let alone move anything else off of bw. and the ONLY reason i even moved these, was because we were told that we would be able to move back if we didnt like servers we tried out. that has clearly changed though

[maartena]

well i certainly hope you're right about the transfer weekends. my point was though, about wanting a change though, is if i wanted to move characters of the servers i have no interest in playing on, i dont even have enough transfers to do that. let alone move anything else off of bw. and the ONLY reason i even moved these, was because we were told that we would be able to move back if we didnt like servers we tried out. that has clearly changed though

Not quite. What has changed is that it will be 100% FREE. You can *always* (although, of course, not now) transfer between servers for money. Vyvyanne announced before the transfers even started that they were adjusting those specific plans and that she did not know at the time "how free it would be". She also said that if your final destination is not available for transfer (or you don't have enough slots yet where you want to end up), to WAIT and leave those characters on the closing servers until you do.

The lesson learned here is: Don't use a server to hop on the last 5 now, and move on to a different server later. If you did, you may now have to wait till a free transfer weekend, or use your 3 tokens and pay for the remainder of the transfers.

Bottom line: You will still be able to move everywhere. It just might cost you money if you don't want to wait for a free transfer opportunity.

[spelunker]

And you still may. As she said, there will be "transfer weekends" to rebalance the population in which free transfers are allowed. Also, she had mentioned previously that they didn't know "how free it would be" when it came to transfers between the 5 remaining servers, because when the 48 hour free transfers happened they discovered exploits and methods to abuse the system.

The message is pretty clear: If you are moving from a closing server to one of the remaining 5, make sure you will want to go to THAT server, because if you are thinking of "hopping" on a server now, and to Brandywine later, you may have to pay. That has also been the message from Vyvyanne for many weeks: If you want to go to a server that is currently closed, such as Brandywine, WAIT on your current server so you get to transfer for free.

I'm actually quite happy with the proposed system, especially that free transfer weekends will be included. I'm sure that before the year is ending, we will have had one of those free transfer weekends so people DO get a chance to redistribute.

There is only a chance I may be impacted by these 'transfer weekends', there have been no promises or guarantees of anything, and as of right now I already have more characters spread across servers than I will get back in free tokens at the end of this process. All of my decisions were based on the following chain, direct from the EP, and pretty clearly not in line with what has come out today:

For those concerned about the free transfer timeline between remaining worlds that we originally set to end on October 1st, we are adjusting this plan. We will no longer have a time frame for free transfers, but are instead working out a way for everyone to have a chance to change their mind on their destination server once before having to pay to do so again.

Will any moves made in the next 2 days count against this new policy before it's actually fleshed out? I'd like to move 1 character now, but seeing as its a real shot in the dark what other servers will be like without all the closing servers also moving around, I'd rather not make a move and then have it mean I can't make further ones on that character in the future without knowing what the full policy will be.

No. Consider the transfers made until Friday part of the testing phase.

I realize that the original statement says that the change in the free transfer policy (between surviving servers) is currently being worked on. However, I'm unclear as to what this original statement and this subsequent exchange are suggesting. Is it that:


1) The tentative end date (10/01) for free transfers is being lifted, and free transfers between surviving servers will take place indefinitely until some point at which all closing servers have been opened up for transfers to the surviving servers. ("We will no longer have a time frame for free transfers...")

or

2) Having a period of free transfers is going to be replaced with a finite number of free transfers (e.g., two per character) to be used whenever. ("...a way for everyone to have a chance to change their mind on their destination server once before having to pay to do so again.")

or

3) These and other options are all being considered.

#2 is the most likely scenario.

The only thing you've said that I can feel confident in is not moving a character until you know for sure where you want to be, but based on the above chain and Vyvyanne's posting history, up until today, how could I have really known that? That leaves moves I've made from potentially 3 closing US servers, as well as moves I've made on the 'free xfer' weekend between the 5 servers that I now have essentially now guaranteed way of undo-ing.

The way I read it is that when a transfer weekend happens, it is for all remaining servers, not just for 1 server.

As far as wanting a change from Brandywine, do it NOW! They opened up transfers from Brandywine and Evernight today. (From, not to).

This is precisely the type of bad advice that is a potential for problems. This person wants a change from BW, and you suggest do it "NOW!" yet to which server? Less than half of the closing servers have migrated, so how can they know which is best for them when these new servers populations haven't been established. They seem to be a pvp oriented player, so how can they check out end-game/pvp action on freepside without making a transfer now? They can't even send 1 freep to every server besides BW to test and then consolidate them all. How can you also be reading that when a transfer weekend happens, it is for all remaining servers? We have one of these transfer weekends up right now, and its not remotely that, its a 1 way ticket off 2 servers, and a 1 way ticket to 1 of 4 servers. Vyvyanne has said that these will be done to help balance server populations, who's to say that these openings won't just be 1-way tickets off the largest server and to the smallest one?

[Grimdoin_EU]

The aim is to have everything completed and live before the US Thanksgiving holiday.

Does this also include the transfer of the EU worlds to their new EU-based servers in the Netherlands?

[maartena]

There is only a chance I may be impacted by these 'transfer weekends', there have been no promises or guarantees of anything, and as of right now I already have more characters spread across servers than I will get back in free tokens at the end of this process. All of my decisions were based on the following chain, direct from the EP, and pretty clearly not in line with what has come out today:

The only thing you've said that I can feel confident in is not moving a character until you know for sure where you want to be, but based on the above chain and Vyvyanne's posting history, up until today, how could I have really known that? That leaves moves I've made from potentially 3 closing US servers, as well as moves I've made on the 'free xfer' weekend between the 5 servers that I now have essentially now guaranteed way of undo-ing.


This is precisely the type of bad advice that is a potential for problems. This person wants a change from BW, and you suggest do it "NOW!" yet to which server? Less than half of the closing servers have migrated, so how can they know which is best for them when these new servers populations haven't been established. They seem to be a pvp oriented player, so how can they check out end-game/pvp action on freepside without making a transfer now? They can't even send 1 freep to every server besides BW to test and then consolidate them all. How can you also be reading that when a transfer weekend happens, it is for all remaining servers? We have one of these transfer weekends up right now, and its not remotely that, its a 1 way ticket off 2 servers, and a 1 way ticket to 1 of 4 servers. Vyvyanne has said that these will be done to help balance server populations, who's to say that these openings won't just be 1-way tickets off the largest server and to the smallest one?

Yep, it is very true that they have changed stance on the transferring for some time. We will have to wait till they announce what/when these "free transfer weekends" will happen. I am pretty sure that they will happen after the new hardware is in place, which is still scheduled before Thanksgiving.

The reason I am suggesting to transfer off of Brandywine NOW, is simply..... because they might change their mind again. There could be such a mass exodus to e.g. Gladden that Gladden will now become majorly congested, and they will have to put the kabash on everything before it gets out of hand.

What I am saying is: If you don't want to be on Brandywine, take your chance now, before they decide they need to stop it because of population balance issues.... and then you may have to wait again until the free transfers are happening in some free transfer weekend.

Also, do keep in mind that although FREE transfers are changing (again), you will always have the opportunity to throw some money at it. Not ideal, I know.... but at least you won't be completely shut out if you miss free transfer windows and have more than 3 characters to move.

[Vovo]

Wait, so if I brought all my characters from Elendilmir to Landroval, and now I find that the RP community on Landroval is a bit too intrusive for my tastes, I'm stuck with all but 3 of them on Landy unless I pay for it?

This seems a bit disingenuous, when the initial statement about this said we would have an opportunity to move again if our initial choice for a new server wasn't one we were happy with. So now, if we're not happy with our initial choice, we are free to try something else, so long as we only have 3 characters?

1 free move between remaining servers for the entire account, or if there are technical limitations on this, 1 free token for every character slot a player has unlocked would be far more appropriate.

I have to agree with this post.

Players were led to believe that they would have a chance to transfer all of their characters off a remaining world if the environment on that server was not what they expected.

Why do I feel that Turbine's money people are getting in the way of good and honest customer relations?

Players did not create this situation. Turbine created the situation. Players should not be worse off.

[Giron]

The message is pretty clear: If you are moving from a closing server to one of the remaining 5, make sure you will want to go to THAT server, because if you are thinking of "hopping" on a server now, and to Brandywine later, you may have to pay. That has also been the message from Vyvyanne for many weeks: If you want to go to a server that is currently closed, such as Brandywine, WAIT on your current server so you get to transfer for free.

The problem with this is of course that there will be people and kins almost alone on the old servers, with limited things to do which will bore the #### out of a lot of people and probebly make a lot of them leave for other games.

Maybe allow one free transfer a week, to give people the chance to try out the new worlds to find out which one suits them? Here in EU it's not that much of a problem since we in reality only got two to choose from but the US got five which makes the choice harder.

[Valgalad]

Hi !

I didn't have time to go through the 100 pages here but there's a long time i didn't see you are moving european servers physically to Europe...

Last time i saw something you were speaking about 'better location for international connection' which doesn't mean anything... better hardware but 120ms ping would still be sad news...

So, are you still planning a move to the Nethrlands ?

Thanks for answer, please ;-)

[Polymachos]

As for the naming policy, CS and Frelorn are currently working on updating the websites with the new policy, I just wanted to give the information here to answer the question. More official notice will be posted soon.

Well, I ran into an issue that is really confounding. I have been playing on Nimrodel, which is about to shut down.

So I decided to migrate to Landroval. There I already have a few characters, and got the impression that it might be a nice place for my Immigrants. But now I am confronted with a naming issue.

It started when I tried to add the name of one of my Nimrodelians to the friends list of my Landroval minstrel. And found out that this name was already used.

There is a character with the same name as my Hobbit watcher. Well, things happen. But this character is only level 4, which means he never left the starter instance. Maybe someone wanted to create a character as long as the VIP time was running, so that this character might have all bonus skills unlocked when he would continue playing. But this did not happen. Said character was logged in last - in March 2015.

Which means, my Hobbit will lose his name to a character that isn't played at all, because Turbine's 'not logged in for longer than 12 months' rule does not apply.

I am not really happy with that. Is there a way to resolve this issue?


Greetings, Polymachos

[Polymachos]

I didn't have time to go through the 100 pages here but there's a long time i didn't see you are moving european servers physically to Europe...

Last time i saw something you were speaking about 'better location for international connection' which doesn't mean anything... (...)
So, are you still planning a move to the Nethrlands ?

No need to go through 100 pages. On page 99, Vyv said:

The new hardware is coming along great. We have all the equipment in place and built out and are now onto the arduous task of moving all of the software and data from the old hardware to new, making sure connections are correct, running QA tests etc. We should be having a load test on the new Bullroarer Beta world soon and will make announcements about it as soon as we have a date locked down. The aim is to have everything completed and live before the US Thanksgiving holiday. (...)

Greetings, Polymachos