[Update 17 Beta 4] Patch notes

[Chodelet]

our classes are meant to evolve and enemies are meant to evolve with us. So we can have all the traits unlocked and still have a challenge if the devs make difficult mobs for us to face.

I see no need for more trait points to improve the ability of players to complete current PVE or PVP content. Please feel free to identify any content you can think of for which current trait point levels are inadequate and the newly added trait points will meaningfully address your ability to complete the content.

bla bla bla unsubscribing.

Friend, no need to unsub in frustration. Just support your viewpoint.

What current content requires more trait points?

(We can even make it easy for you: you don't even have to justify their implementation alongside improved LIs, new essence armor, essence jewelry, and essence cloaks!)

[evidence of mathematical prowess]

It's silly to worry about the effects of partially filling a trait tree 16 years from now.

[further evidence of mathematical prowess]

I think it's safe to say that you don't have to worry about too many trait points for at least a couple of decades.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole

Through your mathematical prowess you've proven that we won't see the simultaneous use of every trait in every trait tree tomorrow or next week. Nice!

Unfortunately your mathematical prowess does not demonstrate that increased access to traits 1) is necessary at this time or 2) improves the playability of the game (makes things easier, more funtional?) while maintaining an overall challenging environment for players.

Same question to you as to my friend above:

What current content requires more trait points?

(We can even make it easy for you: you don't even have to justify their implementation alongside improved LIs, new essence armor, essence jewelry, and essence cloaks!)

That is either only for min-maxers, or for those with lack of imagination. "Most" people will probably be happy that they can pick skill X now as well, although they are traited in Y. That "X" varies across players. For me, I actually check what each skill actually does, and see if that skill benefits MY playstyle or not. I don't care if someone else thinks the skill I chose is rubbish, that's their opinion, but if I want that skill, I can pick and choose it (but probably have to leave something else out).

A parallel anecdote for you: just yesterday in world chat someone linked two of the new gold cloaks and asked, "Which is best for a fire rk?" One had a finesse focus, one had a crit defense focus. Of course, a few people replied "Finesse!" and a few others replied "Crit d!" Nobody asked, "Is this for PVE or PVP?" Nobody stated, "Nobody can give you good advice about whether you need finesse or crit d more without knowing what your current stats already are." Nobody asked any questions... There was just a shared assumption that a fire rk had a "right" way to build, and that option A or option B - irrespective of the player's current build, playstyle, and the content he completes - would improve the character. To emphasize, these were "end game" players who'd reached the level 100 cap and who should theoretically be the more sophisticated end of the spectrum.

My anecdote concerns statistics and not trait points, and it's a single instance and not necessarily representative of everyone. Of course. Yet, IMO this same kind of mentality is found in players discussing trait builds as well and it is widespread. You might be one of the few people who thinks for himself, but I wouldn't project that 'most' people do so because you do.

We are still far from the situation where we can choose every trait there is... And even then, we cannot have but one group of passives out of three at any given time (although we can of course switch when not in combat at any given time as well).

Same question to you as to my friends above:

What current content requires more trait points?

(We can even make it easy for you: you don't even have to justify their implementation alongside improved LIs, new essence armor, essence jewelry, and essence cloaks!)

[Spilo]

I don't remember but even with legacy and trait, TtT cd should be at least 90 sec. It's not something you can use against cc spam.
Don't hit the guard while ToD is up, just like you don't hit a spider while its reflect is up.

You know these things. They gave me troll responses because they have nothing worthwhile to say.

LOL What about Spiders? And reavers? You know, those classes that use DoTs. I have an idea, how about Spiders and Reavers just go no DoT when fighting a Guardian. Oh and CC spam? Because freepside certainly can't CC spam right back.

You should expect nothing more than a troll response with the things you've been saying.

[grenifk]

I don't remember but even with legacy and trait, TtT cd should be at least 90 sec. It's not something you can use against cc spam.
Don't hit the guard while ToD is up, just like you don't hit a spider while its reflect is up.

You know these things. They gave me troll responses because they have nothing worthwhile to say.

ToD heals of dots so attacking you or not while ToD (1min cd skill) is active doesnt really matter (maybe if devs removed heals from dots there would be just a little tiny bit of possibility to kill guardians), then you have WH on 2 min CD which will usually heal gards around 50% (thanks to inc heal buff) and let's not forget heals from critical attacks.

And as spelunker said gards get 5 morale points per 1 vit point while being heavy armor, which makes them less suspectible to nuke them in 2 minute period.

Let's not forget that gards can spread all debuffs and dots across all enemy players making it easier to kite certain classes while nuking others.

Now what more needs to be said for you to realise that gard is one of the most OP classes in LOTRO?

[Coeprandua]

ToD heals of dots so attacking you or not while ToD (1min cd skill) is active doesnt really matter (maybe if devs removed heals from dots there would be just a little tiny bit of possibility to kill guardians), then you have WH on 2 min CD which will usually heal gards around 50% (thanks to inc heal buff) and let's not forget heals from critical attacks.

And as spelunker said gards get 5 morale points per 1 vit point while being heavy armor, which makes them less suspectible to nuke them in 2 minute period.

Let's not forget that gards can spread all debuffs and dots across all enemy players making it easier to kite certain classes while nuking others.

Now what more needs to be said for you to realise that gard is one of the most OP classes in LOTRO?

I think guards need a pseudo-nerf like wardens. Make guard bleeds pottable gets my vote.

[Spilo]

I think guards need a pseudo-nerf like wardens. Make guard bleeds pottable gets my vote.

Here's a brilliant idea. How about we nerf ridiculous things like Bring on the Pain, Prey on the Weak, Perma Sprint Knockdown, Sprint first. Heck, maybe then we can even give Red Guard DPS a boost.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

Here's a brilliant idea. How about we nerf ridiculous things like Bring on the Pain, Prey on the Weak, Perma Sprint Knockdown, Sprint first. Heck, maybe then we can even give Red Guard DPS a boost.

Everyone should be brought in line with Hunters since we don't have overpowered heals. That means bringing Wardens and RK's dps down to just below a hunter's level or at least be equal. And reduce the amount of healing that can go on while tanking/dpsing/etc. Also - add in some animation delay on debuff removal skills and re-limit them to a single debuff. Root them in place too. Oh yeah and on corruption removal skills don't make don't make them immediate anymore.

Then you guys can feel the balance

[Spilo]

Everyone should be brought in line with Hunters since we don't have overpowered heals. That means bringing Wardens and RK's dps down to just below a hunter's level or at least be equal. And reduce the amount of healing that can go on while tanking/dpsing/etc. Also - add in some animation delay on debuff removal skills and re-limit them to a single debuff. Root them in place too. Oh yeah and on corruption removal skills don't make don't make them immediate anymore.

Then you guys can feel the balance

LOL 10/10. People who idiotically call for flat creep buffs rather than balancing freep classes always make me laugh. The Red Hunter is a victim of this line of thinking which Turbine used in U16. When you just brainlessly buff creepside, you continue to further the gap in skill capability. You have my compassion.

[spelunker]

I don't remember but even with legacy and trait, TtT cd should be at least 90 sec. It's not something you can use against cc spam.
Don't hit the guard while ToD is up, just like you don't hit a spider while its reflect is up.

You know these things. They gave me troll responses because they have nothing worthwhile to say.

TtT cooldown is 30s with the legacy and the trait, and provides 20s of combat state immunity on top of it (meaning you can only stun them in a 10s window 20s after an initial stun without them using it again).

They already brought up the issue with DoTs and ToD, which doesn't apply to Weaver reflect, and most creep classes don't much control over the use of their DoTs and still being viable as damage dealing classes.

[grenifk]

TtT cooldown is 30s with the legacy and the trait, and provides 20s of combat state immunity on top of it (meaning you can only stun them in a 10s window 20s after an initial stun without them using it again).

They already brought up the issue with DoTs and ToD, which doesn't apply to Weaver reflect, and most creep classes don't much control over the use of their DoTs and still being viable as damage dealing classes.

Well i can't say that i've seen many guards with that use trait and legacy on TtT because it's deep in blue line (that is if you want to use bring on the pain as well), but it is definately a strog skill.

As for creeps not controling much DoT's, I don't really know about other classes but if reaver or warg won't use their dot skills they have little chance to kill guardian anyway. ToD should really get nerfed so heals doesn't proc on dots, so when you see gard using it you can actually kite for the time it's active without fully healing gard.