I am here to PROTEST against the NUTS grinds of the game

[Laerien]

Raiders are a small percentage of players. If you are a raider you are probably not a business owner with a young family. You are more likely to be a teenager with excess time because you didn't go out for sports, theater, band or an after-school job. You might also be a college student inbetween finals and no boy/girl friend, and who doesn't have to work full time in order to put themselves through college. It is possible that you could be a middle-age person who is disabled or even an retired person. Raiding requires quite a bit of preparation. What raiders are actually complaining about is that they work to raid in the game and there is then not a chain of ongoing raids. Why would there be considering what must be done and the costliness of raiding and making a raid.

You hit the forum justice raiders nerve with this. Now you are the "public enemy number one".

Don't talk to these nice and kind people that way; they are going to ridicule and harass you while playing the victim role.

[Calta]

You hit the forum justice raiders nerve with this. Now you are the "public enemy number one".

Don't talk to these nice and kind people that way; they are going to ridicule and harass you while playing the victim role.

Thank you for your kind contribution trollikins. Do you have 'raider' on permanent search so you can post this tired old reflexive rubbish in every thread that mentions raiding? Even this one..where the person you seem to love so deeply brought up raiders, only to insult them. No one else had or even has mentioned it. Which you'd know if you'd read the thread. But hey, that wouldn't fit your "one response fits all' pre written copy. paste posts would it?

As usual, you haven;t read the thread, haven't read the insults from the poster you are saying is/will be the victim of the nasty raiding community, haven't read the rational and extremely polite replies to someone who has claimed there is 'no grind', and the polite, if disbelieving responses to someone who says that she has 'maxed four imbued LIs in 2 weeks' LOL!!!!!!!!!! such a barefaced lie, unless she multiboxes Thorog 24 hours a day. Even then, my maths says it's not possible without the store. How did s/he get the remembrance crystals? curious minds wanna know...Then s/he lists the instant gratification stuff she does want. Like instant crafting across all professions! Apparently she also has 1000s of stars of merit and plenty of marks/meds but doesn't know you can get essence reclamamtion scrolls using them in DA or with the barterers ...and this is the person who is being victimised ?

So far 1/10 troll attempt. Old rehashed response, tired inaacurate argument, no original ideas, not on topic and not even a decent giff. FAIL Must try harder. Or just go away!

Carry on folks. [the following is heavily edited:] Just put the2 hours crafting herself to sleep, ahem, confused person with her 200 k plus medallions and starlits, and remembrance crystals that she got in 2 weeks without grouping regularly, on ignore. And with her put the flame baiting raider-insulting troll above, on ignore too As I have done. Clearly both have an agenda completely unrelated to the topic and to the facts.


The rest of us are talking about the diificulty imbuing LIs and grinding for everything, even class points. ie the flavour of the game these days-little of interest to do and blatant store driven systems. Then we can discuss the problems with grinding and the granularity (thanks Almagus for a useful descriptor) of current game play like adults.

[Calta]

I also echo other's decision to leave my alts behind. I managed to get my first alt (besides LM main) to 100, and I have given up on him. If you think the grind is bad for a main, try grinding a level 1 to Max gear:

LIs before imbuement including crystals, relics, large amount of scrolls
LIs afterimbuement including crystals and massive amount of scrolls
BB grind for Trait Points
BB grind for Jewelery
Massive Virtue Grind
Huge Trait Point Grind through Gondor and Western Rohan
Essence Grind
Crafting Grind
Big Crafting Guild Grind
Commendations Grind for Audacity armor.


I have totally and completely given up on it, and am attempting to grind for my one main, and I'm not even half way done with the U17 Grind which was released a month ago. Turbine, this is bad, bad business.

This ^^^ from one of the most passionate mini maxers and forum warriors in LOTRO *hugs Spilo*

The above is how I feel about getting my RK 'finished'. And she has help from a nearly maxxed group content junky main. How do you think newer players with their first character feel? Forget perfecting LIs...just getting a semi finished character so one can play with others, or do the DA and MT landscape instances, or start PvP, relatively easily., would seem insurmountable...poor new players.

[Beaniemooch]

Raiders are a small percentage of players. If you are a raider you are probably not a business owner with a young family. You are more likely to be a teenager with excess time because you didn't go out for sports, theater, band or an after-school job. You might also be a college student inbetween finals and no boy/girl friend, and who doesn't have to work full time in order to put themselves through college. It is possible that you could be a middle-age person who is disabled or even an retired person. Raiding requires quite a bit of preparation. What raiders are actually complaining about is that they work to raid in the game and there is then not a chain of ongoing raids. Why would there be considering what must be done and the costliness of raiding and making a raid.

Actually many of us are parents with kids of all ages, hold down challenging full time jobs and have absolutely no problem spending quite a bit of money on the game which is our relaxation from the stress of everyday life. Well, at least that's the demographic I've raided with for the past 6-ish years, right up until Turbine quit making raids. We'd call breaks during raid so people could put kids to bed, or hubbies could help wives (who didn't game) bring in groceries. In fact, the people I raided with didn't fit into any of the categories you listed above. We were all 25-50ish with full lives and families. You might also check where those in the know stated lotro has an older gaming demographic than most MMO's, at least according to a prior CM and other reliable sources I've seen.

Back when raids were made well (Rift, DN, BG when it first came out) raids lasted us pretty much a year. For one thing, it would take us weeks if not months to down all the raid bosses. Strats had to be designed and tested, then you progressed through the first boss and repeated on the next. That was the beauty of a multi-boss progressive raid, it was replayable. And when (over 3-6 months) you had all the mains geared out you had begun taking alts through, or people replayed for the special pieces of gear that dropped which they may not have gotten yet. Most of all we had fun. And we paid for the expansions, there was no "earn free tp so you don't fork over cash" option.

Raiders were an integral part of the game, just like crafters, role players, PvPers, casual players - each have their own spot on the food chain. And like the food chain in real life, lose one part of the cycle and the whole thing starts to fall apart. And then you have entire raiding kins leaving, taking non-raiding friends with them, and eventually server closes. But please, go ahead and think any one group isn't important in the game. Eventually you'll just be playing by yourself.

[Ondopher555]

It is an MMO, that goes to lvl 100. What do you expect? Things to be handed to you like a 4 year old in a daycare center? You are supposed to spend hours of hours working up a character to be the best it can. What do you think this is? Some Assassin's Creed game that you can complete in 8 hours and have everything done?


#GetoverIT]

No, only fools like you think that "one is supposed to spend hours of hours working up a character". Nobody sensible wants to grind a system that's been there since 2008 and ever increasing, most of us just want a system that takes a reasonable amount of time.

#GetALife

[Arnenna]

You hit the forum justice raiders nerve with this. Now you are the "public enemy number one".

Don't talk to these nice and kind people that way; they are going to ridicule and harass you while playing the victim role.

You need to read the thread in it's entirety to properly get the post that you quoted, and from which angle it was brought into the conversation. It was uncalled for, it was not brought in any defense from any attack from any member of the raiding community. It was unwarranted and should not be defended in any way, shape of form.

I am not a member of the regular raiding community. I do like to do raids, time permitting, and when I can find groups to do them with. I prefer going into proper, full running raids, where there are people that will not just run through it because they know it inside out, but will take time to explain what is happening or how a challenge needs to be done to anyone new to the raid mechanics. That is 90% of the time, the experience I get when I join raiding groups.
They are not bad people, or disabled, or old, or spoiled teen idiots as that post has portrayed them. They are players - important players, who happen to be passionate about the part of the game that they love.

I go through various stages within the game. Sometimes I am active in group activities regularly, other times I am strictly solo, now and again I participate in raids, and then on times I'm a mix of all three. It depends on two things, how much time I have and my mood. Maybe it's because I don't mold exactly into any one group, or maybe because I could be construed as molding a little bit into them all, that I can see things from more than one angle.

I've seen a player that is all for raids attack the soloist community without mercy and when it is uncalled for out on these boards, calling them names and labeling them in a negative way. Sure I have, and when I see it, I defend against it.

I will also defend against it when it is done against the raiding community, because that is also wrong.

[Arnenna]

This ^^^ from one of the most passionate mini maxers and forum warriors in LOTRO *hugs Spilo*

The above is how I feel about getting my RK 'finished'. And she has help from a nearly maxxed group content junky main. How do you think newer players with their first character feel? Forget perfecting LIs...just getting a semi finished character so one can play with others, or do the DA and MT landscape instances, or start PvP, relatively easily., would seem insurmountable...poor new players.

And here is where the nail gets hit on the head. Newly capped players.

Up to the update that we got DA, end game grind was always something they would start, when they get to end game level. It could be picked up when they reach level cap, and they would have to grind out whatever was needed since the previous update only.
Now, end game grind is constantly moving forward, across a horizontal pathway, long before they even get to it. Now they get to level cap and they have the grind of all updates that have passed since DA hit, and that grind, just keeps on growing - in their absence - until they reach cap.

By the time we reach Mordor, if this system isn't changed or given some serious "on-ramps" for newly capped players, the grind they will be facing from DA to Mordor will be impossible to achieve, but more to the point, it will likely be a grind they will have absolutely no wish to achieve, because of it's ridiculous and unwarranted length.

Here is a prime example. One member in my kin, that I recruited, so am mentoring reached DA a while ago. They have done all of Gondor and MT landscape, and it is only now that they are finishing their last two pieces of DA armour (because they had Gondor to run). They are currently grinding out Helms Deep, to get class points and enough rep to buy recipes to make crafting journals, in order to crit essences for recipes that they are still grinding out from Gondor, to make. And when they have finished that, they need more recipes, to make more essences, for their crafted bling, that they will use in a mix with their gold bling, that they just grinded from BB's when they had time to do them with all the other stuff they had to do. Maybe when they get all this done, they will be able to start on their weapons, but surely by that time, they will be needing even more Empos and crystals than they need at this moment in time. Because while they are grinding everything that needs to be done since Helms Deep in order to grow their character properly, the goal posts at the forefront, keep moving further away. How long are they expected to run that pitch before they finally decide to stop running?

[Lilywarrior]

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question here Lilywarrior, so here goes.

You say you built your four weapons to full Post-imbued max over the last two weeks, and you say you have not even started DA yet, so the only way you could have possibly done that is with marks and medallions.

How long did it take you to grind all that skirmish currency? Let remind you of the numbers again . . . its somewhere in the region of one million marks, and two hundred thousand medallions.

Are you seriously trying to tell us that you did a grind for that number of marks and medallions . . . . in two weeks, at the rate of two hours per night?

I'm beginning to feel extremely sorry for Sambrog at this moment in time.

Nope, that is not what I said. I said that my second main has not started DA yet. However, she is full kindred With Dol Amroth and full acquaintance with the Bank, the Docks, The Armoury, the Great Hall, the Library. the Warehouse, the Swan-knights. She is 3,500/10K with the Mason. I gave a friend's char enough coins to get him to the same and I will be giving my historian the same before she ever enters DA. She has just started Helm's Dike. She's LM. I don't play her often, but I wanted her to become by second alternate main someday.

and no, I am not saying I earned everything in two weeks. I said I have made 4 FA imbued legendaries in two weeks.

[Arnenna]

Nope, that is not what I said. I said that my second main has not started DA yet. However, she is full kindred With Dol Amroth and full acquaintance with the Bank, the Docks, The Armoury, the Great Hall, the Library. the Warehouse, the Swan-knights. She is 3,500/10K with the Mason. I gave a friend's char enough coins to get him to the same and I will be giving my historian the same before she ever enters DA. She has just started Helm's Dike. She's LM. I don't play her often, but I wanted her to become by second alternate main someday.

and no, I am not saying I earned everything in two weeks. I said I have made 4 FA imbued legendaries in two weeks.

But you still didn't answer the question.

How long did it take you to grind almost one million marks and 200K medallions?

[Lilywarrior]

So, thanks for confirming you have yet to do all the grinding needed to actually have a fully maxed out and built out char. When it comes to invalidating your point about 'whiners'.. you totally nailed it. Congrats!
I'm glad you are taking your time and playing how you want to personally play. Others also have that right. I play 4 chars for my kin and myself for raids/instances/etc. Explain to me how I can gear and max them all out so that I may be of use to the kin? (My kin is very very active raid and instance wise and we like to be able to play more then one class) Also.. your proud 68k meds mean exactly squat when you need to buy so many empowerment scrolls for multiple chars with multiple LI's. Oh right, then again.. you don't care because you don't raid or need anything maxed, you are a deeder and quest completionist. (nothing wrong with that btw, its' just not how everyone chooses to play)

You just want to sit on that high horse and insult people who don't play your way.. got it....

I am not the one complaining about working the content of the game. Where did you get that I don't raid? My mains are always maxed out within my own time frame.

[Lilywarrior]

Yes old non imbued ones which nobody has any problem with on the amount of time is needed to grind them. Try same with imbued weapons.

Actually, they are not all weapons; 2 weapons and 2 class items... and they are imbued and at 331/341, 43/44 today.

[bucko39]

Just to be devil's advocate...has anyone done one of the following and compared the dps and/or survivability of their toon:

a) refused to imbue their LIs and use the "old" LI weapons/items

b) refused to equip a Legendary weapon at all (using crafted or instance drops) and just have a secondary Legendary item (non-imbued) equipped

[olanath]

And here is where the nail gets hit on the head. Newly capped players.

Up to the update that we got DA, end game grind was always something they would start, when they get to end game level. It could be picked up when they reach level cap, and they would have to grind out whatever was needed since the previous update only.
Now, end game grind is constantly moving forward, across a horizontal pathway, long before they even get to it. Now they get to level cap and they have the grind of all updates that have passed since DA hit, and that grind, just keeps on growing - in their absence - until they reach cap.

By the time we reach Mordor, if this system isn't changed or given some serious "on-ramps" for newly capped players, the grind they will be facing from DA to Mordor will be impossible to achieve, but more to the point, it will likely be a grind they will have absolutely no wish to achieve, because of it's ridiculous and unwarranted length.

Here is a prime example. One member in my kin, that I recruited, so am mentoring reached DA a while ago. They have done all of Gondor and MT landscape, and it is only now that they are finishing their last two pieces of DA armour (because they had Gondor to run). They are currently grinding out Helms Deep, to get class points and enough rep to buy recipes to make crafting journals, in order to crit essences for recipes that they are still grinding out from Gondor, to make. And when they have finished that, they need more recipes, to make more essences, for their crafted bling, that they will use in a mix with their gold bling, that they just grinded from BB's when they had time to do them with all the other stuff they had to do. Maybe when they get all this done, they will be able to start on their weapons, but surely by that time, they will be needing even more Empos and crystals than they need at this moment in time. Because while they are grinding everything that needs to be done since Helms Deep in order to grow their character properly, the goal posts at the forefront, keep moving further away. How long are they expected to run that pitch before they finally decide to stop running?

I kind of disagree with all you posted here. I've done the lvl 100 grind with 3 characters now (haven't finished finalizing essences, that's the last bit for them), and have a Warden that is sitting at lvl 92. I've been leveling the warden with a group that meets once a week for almost 2 years now. I have had time to plan how to gear my warden for quite a long time, which I enjoy doing (the planning and gearing), and it's easier to max your weapon and get essences now than it was for us (people at lvl cap when gondor zones released).

When West Gondor was released, there was no imbument, and essences were a pain to craft, since the journals were a Rohan thing only still. DA dailies were still the old 3-a-days. But for a fresh lvl 100, you can get a 1st age weapon, max it then imbue it and reach that soft cap of legacies around the same time you are going through central gondor. Keep in mind that you get a few scrolls, crystals, and a rememberance just from questing. Now, maybe this is just me, but I don't craft any essences anymore. There is no need. The easiest way to get scrolls of empowerment are through Stars of Merit, and if you are gaining those, you're gaining essences along with it. I don't enjoy looking for the right major essence, getting the shard, recipe, journal, all of that. Just for a chance of a supreme. It's quicker and easier just doing epic battles.

When we did imbuing first time around, we had skirm camp and DA to get scrolls of empowerment. I can't even add how many methods to attain them have been added now. It seems no matter what I do in game, I'm earning some currency that can get me Scrolls. Even roving threats give them (along with Morgul Crests), so if I really wanted that deed done, I'd have a few scrolls there, and maybe 1 piece of 5 slot armor (wishful thinking there). And why would the grind from DA to Mordor be impossible, if we had done it already? The only difference would be that a new lvl 100 stepping into DA would have no 6 month gaps to wait for the next section of grind.

However, I do agree with the daunting appearance of the grind. 44 tiers per legacy just looks gross. But those tiers go faster for a new lvl 100.

[Arnenna]

Actually, they are not all weapons; 2 weapons and 2 class items... and they are imbued and at 331/341, 43/44 today.

but you are still evading the question.

How long did it take you to grind for those 4 weapons?

Lets try and figure it out.

July 2014, Gondor arrived. Assuming you got to DA and got rep for training straight away, and that until June 2015 you could only get three gold tokens a day off one character, that would give you 840 gold tokens of Dol Amroth (not even going to guess if you would get the 2520 silver tokens you would also need) to buy 84 empowerment scrolls. That's one weapons counted for.
June 2015 U16.2 arrived, and you could then get 7 gold tokens each day on one character. From then until two weeks ago, that would have netted you about 980 gold tokens of DA (which you would have had to couple with 2980 silver tokens), and that would have got you a further 98 empowerment scrolls. So there is your second weapon accounted for.

None of that included starlits and remembrance, which we could assume you got from skirms and instances if your rng was favourable.

So, now we just have two LI items to account for, and as all your DA from one character is accounted for, you would still require . . .

half a million marks and 100K medallions to max those two.

I'm not saying here that you have not done this grind, I'm saying, that if you have, it took you over 1.5 years to do it.

You think a newly capped player can catch up with your 1.5 years worth of grinding, when they reach Dol Amroth now? Or tomorrow? Or next week?

Newsflash . . . .They can't, and even if they did by some miracle manage it, by the time they do, they will have the next grind to come, which you are already grinding for now, if you have already done the last grind.

You didn't grind your Uli's in 2 weeks at all, not anywhere near. You took 1.5 years to do it. A player that started playing the game 6 months ago, and is capping this week, cannot do this

[idontcare789]

Pretty obvious, what else are you going to do? Complain of NOTHING to do? Not like there was a cap increase, or raids and instances, the grind is the end game. Once its over you become like me, log in here and there, realize nothing to do so you log out and do something else.

[Arnenna]

I kind of disagree with all you posted here. I've done the lvl 100 grind with 3 characters now (haven't finished finalizing essences, that's the last bit for them), and have a Warden that is sitting at lvl 92. I've been leveling the warden with a group that meets once a week for almost 2 years now. I have had time to plan how to gear my warden for quite a long time, which I enjoy doing (the planning and gearing), and it's easier to max your weapon and get essences now than it was for us (people at lvl cap when gondor zones released).

When West Gondor was released, there was no imbument, and essences were a pain to craft, since the journals were a Rohan thing only still. DA dailies were still the old 3-a-days. But for a fresh lvl 100, you can get a 1st age weapon, max it then imbue it and reach that soft cap of legacies around the same time you are going through central gondor. Keep in mind that you get a few scrolls, crystals, and a rememberance just from questing. Now, maybe this is just me, but I don't craft any essences anymore. There is no need. The easiest way to get scrolls of empowerment are through Stars of Merit, and if you are gaining those, you're gaining essences along with it. I don't enjoy looking for the right major essence, getting the shard, recipe, journal, all of that. Just for a chance of a supreme. It's quicker and easier just doing epic battles.

When we did imbuing first time around, we had skirm camp and DA to get scrolls of empowerment. I can't even add how many methods to attain them have been added now. It seems no matter what I do in game, I'm earning some currency that can get me Scrolls. Even roving threats give them (along with Morgul Crests), so if I really wanted that deed done, I'd have a few scrolls there, and maybe 1 piece of 5 slot armor (wishful thinking there). And why would the grind from DA to Mordor be impossible, if we had done it already? The only difference would be that a new lvl 100 stepping into DA would have no 6 month gaps to wait for the next section of grind.

However, I do agree with the daunting appearance of the grind. 44 tiers per legacy just looks gross. But those tiers go faster for a new lvl 100.

This is exactly the point, You have been planning your warden for almost 2 years, you have been getting ready for this for two years, you have been grinding away for 2 years and saving up what you need.

A newly capped player - doesn't have that luxury. The grind from DA to Mordor isn't impossible for those of us already on the journey. We have been on that road for an age already (it's more than a year and a half since DA arrived for us). Try starting it tomorrow. Or next week. Or 6 months from now. Then its a whole different ballgame. Think of it like a walk to Everest base camp. It takes about 8 weeks. For those that have been walking for 7 weeks, to say to those starting now - you have to get here within 7 days if you want to climb the Hilary step to the summit with us, because that is when we will get there - is just ludicrous.

44 empowerment scrolls cost the same for a new level 100 player as any other level 100 player.

[Arnenna]

Pretty obvious, what else are you going to do? Complain of NOTHING to do? Not like there was a cap increase, or raids and instances, the grind is the end game. Once its over you become like me, log in here and there, realize nothing to do so you log out and do something else.

For those that have characters that were already up there when this grind started, and only one or two alts - this is true. For new players arriving at cap, or players with more than 2 or 3 alts (there are a lot of them), this is about as far from true as it gets.

[olanath]

This is exactly the point, You have been planning your warden for almost 2 years, you have been getting ready for this for two years, you have been grinding away for 2 years and saving up what you need.

A newly capped player - doesn't have that luxury.

44 empowerment scrolls cost the same for a new level 100 player as any other level 100 player.

My warden is still lvl 92, I haven't even started Gondor with him yet. The luxury for a newly capped player is that they have 4 regions of Gondor to work on their essences and ILIs with no pauses in content. The newly capped character is the one with the luxury, the old players had the tougher road. We had less options, with more opening up only after a large chunk was already done. I'm looking forward to it on my warden because he has all the options my other 3 capped toons never had. Those 2 years of playing was not grinding at all. That was just playing the game. That was questing, doing instances, doing epic battles. No step of the way was a grind (except redoing an LI every ten levels. The imbument process is no angel, but wow am I glad to be done with the old method.)

Now, I'm not trying to advocate for the new LI process, or the grind in general. It's long, and not particularly fun. But it was worse for those that did it as the content was released. Its not as bad starting from scratch.

[Oelle]

easy solution for newly capped players: raise the levelcap, let lvl105/110 legendary items start with legacies like a lvl100 which has used 80 scrolls of empowerment. let traitpoints be bought via shop. and let there be a better way to get essences (and upgrade them). like a merchant, which sells green or even purple essences for gold. 1-5g each essence. unlimited.
dont let crystals and empscrolls for lvl100 be used on the 105/110 legendaries, if you are above rank40. but up to 40, they should be useable.
and extremely lower the prices for lvl100 items, as 105/110 will be actual.

tadaa, newly capped players will have an easier entry.

horizontal progression is ####, if you are months or years behind.

[Scirocco]

horizontal progression is ####, if you are months or years behind.

Amen. I've brought up that point in threads calling for no more character level cap increases.

[bucko39]

easy solution for newly capped players: raise the levelcap, let lvl105/110 legendary items start with legacies like a lvl100 which has used 80 scrolls of empowerment. let traitpoints be bought via shop. and let there be a better way to get essences (and upgrade them). like a merchant, which sells green or even purple essences for gold. 1-5g each essence. unlimited.
dont let crystals and empscrolls for lvl100 be used on the 105/110 legendaries, if you are above rank40. but up to 40, they should be useable.
and extremely lower the prices for lvl100 items, as 105/110 will be actual.

tadaa, newly capped players will have an easier entry.

horizontal progression is ####, if you are months or years behind.

or...scrap the LI system altogether. Transfer all the bonuses we normally receive from the LIs to the trait trees. Case closed.
Of course, that will never happen. It's all about the $$

[Scirocco]

or...scrap the LI system altogether. Transfer all the bonuses we normally receive from the LIs to the trait trees. Case closed.
Of course, that will never happen. It's all about the $$

Considering all complains about the trait system (continuing to this day), I'm surprised you would recommend this. Personally, I'd rather not have yet another group of damage/skill enhancement divided among three trees.

Unless we're going to have another 100 trait points that we can obtain, perhaps....

[bucko39]

Considering all complains about the trait system (continuing to this day), I'm surprised you would recommend this. Personally, I'd rather not have yet another group of damage/skill enhancement divided among three trees.

Unless we're going to have another 100 trait points that we can obtain, perhaps....

The lesser of two evils perhaps? The problem with the trait trees in LOTRO is the actual implementation...not the idea itself.
It would take thinking outside the box and yes, revamping the current trait trees but I believe if implemented correctly (emphasis) it would be a vast improvement over the LI system.

[Arnenna]

My warden is still lvl 92, I haven't even started Gondor with him yet. The luxury for a newly capped player is that they have 4 regions of Gondor to work on their essences and ILIs with no pauses in content. The newly capped character is the one with the luxury, the old players had the tougher road. We had less options, with more opening up only after a large chunk was already done. I'm looking forward to it on my warden because he has all the options my other 3 capped toons never had. Those 2 years of playing was not grinding at all. That was just playing the game. That was questing, doing instances, doing epic battles. No step of the way was a grind (except redoing an LI every ten levels. The imbument process is no angel, but wow am I glad to be done with the old method.)

Now, I'm not trying to advocate for the new LI process, or the grind in general. It's long, and not particularly fun. But it was worse for those that did it as the content was released. Its not as bad starting from scratch.

You're missing the point. The old players had time - tons of it, to cover those regions. The level cap is static, not moving. Newly capped players reach end game level, but are not end game weapon ready - for what took older players 1.5 years to grind. 6 months from now, newly capped players will need two years to do what older players did in two years, to get to the same place. While the level cap isn't moving, but end level character progression is, the lines get further and further away from each other.
When those new players reach cap, they can do DA training (not a minute before). That's one empo every two days from that. If they do MT, that's one Empo every three days from that. Add to that the handful they will get from the epic (that old players also got), and it doesn't amount to being able to keep up. They do not have two older alts running for them, collecting marks, meds and other tokens like your warden does. You say your warden is 92, so it's likely he will reach cap before the next update, and the 44 per legacy is looking daunting, and you say that with two other alts that are already collecting to help. What if your warden doesn't cap until next Spring? How will the legacies look to you when they are at 55? Or if he caps next fall, when they are at 77?

What do you think will happen if we ever do get that Shelob raid that people are pretty much counting on? All the people that started the journey when DA update arrived will be weapon ready. All those that cap just a little while before the raid is released will be nowhere near weapon ready - yet, they will all be at cap and eligible to run it. Do you think Shelob's dps will be matched with the players that have weapons they have been growing for three years (at that point)? Or will they match her dps to the players that just became level cap and have normal level 100 weapons?

It won't matter which, the result will be the same - imbalance on one side or the other.

If for arguments sake, your warden is your only char and it caps tomorrow, and they release a lovely shiny new Shelob raid on Monday.
My warden made cap a week after DA hit, and has been working at level cap since. We are both eligible for that nice new shiny raid, and we both want to go into it.
My warden's weapons are 1.5 years worth of grind stronger than your wardens, and to get to the same place, your warden will need at the very least, a year of grinding to get done at full pelt (and that's without all the other gear he will need).
If they match Shelob to my warden, then your warden is going to be throwing paper darts. If they match her to yours, my warden will be playing auto-swat the spider while I go make coffee.

It is likely they will match the spider to the weaker warden, to ensure more people can do it. The alternative, matching it to the stronger char, means the weaker one will have to grind for a year to be strong enough to kill it.

[Arnenna]

easy solution for newly capped players: raise the levelcap, let lvl105/110 legendary items start with legacies like a lvl100 which has used 80 scrolls of empowerment. let traitpoints be bought via shop. and let there be a better way to get essences (and upgrade them). like a merchant, which sells green or even purple essences for gold. 1-5g each essence. unlimited.
dont let crystals and empscrolls for lvl100 be used on the 105/110 legendaries, if you are above rank40. but up to 40, they should be useable.
and extremely lower the prices for lvl100 items, as 105/110 will be actual.

tadaa, newly capped players will have an easier entry.

horizontal progression is ####, if you are months or years behind.

This^^

Exactly.