Request for official comment: Status of EU servers

[Hurin]

Having two datacenters was never about supporting more users. It was always about having the servers closer to the players, thus reducing network latency.

You miss the point. Fewer users = less revenue = can no longer justify second datacenter.

Edit. . .

I think Hurin was referring to the revenue stream from a higher player population. Obviously the more revenue, the easier it is to justify the additional expense of leasing an offshore data centre.

Thanks. Could have left it to you.

[Marancil]

Actually, the player base seems to be increasing slightly, or it could just be the recent holidays effect....

http://lotrostats.gefallenehelden.de/

[jfdiogddsfsd]

Too many people. Whenever I see any kind of reversal from Turbine on something they announced from the planning stages, there are way too many people throwing fits about it.



Hilarious. All I'm saying is, if we want Turbine to tell us what is upcoming for LOTRO, we've got to stop throwing tantrums at them every time a plan changes. Calm down, something happened, get over it. Maybe it'll change, maybe it won't. This kind of thing is not the number of Scrolls of Empowerment it takes to max an imbued legendary item, where enough of an outrage can effect a change. Employ some emotional intelligence.

Has the plan changed?
All we are asking for is a statement to that effect or otherwise.
Can that really be so hard to understand ?

[jfdiogddsfsd]

They will move it.

Good grief you people vex me ;P

They had an unplanned number of issues with migration between servers - preventable with more thorough testing imo

OLD NEWS

They had unforseen issues moving to new hardware - the 64 bit software having issues with 32 bit code - from my experience a lot of 64bit coding is more strict on what it allows and some of the original coding that has worked for years may have been less robust.

OBVIOUSLY FIXED NOW

So now we have this they don't want to update to two geographical locations the code they have only just fixed.
As a programmer that makes sense to me. Get the server code working for all servers first as they have had issues getting here.
Then - when they transfer to the Amsterdam data-centres (data-centres are groups of maintained machines - not the group of PCs you imagine run LotRO - it's not the same hardware, it's identical hardware in a data-centre in Amsterdam - it's sat their ready and little or nothing needs to be sent by boat or plane to Nederland) it will take a few days (or a week or so) before they go live with a further 10-hour break (or longer because of backup transfer - that would have to use the trans-atlantic and be verified before use) to do an update for those 5 remaining EU servers. Obviously any still-running EU servers would not be affected and would still be hosted in USA until removal.

SO DON'T FRET - MAKES SENSE IN TECHY TERMS
AND WILL HAPPEN


Not sure when 'last play' day is on closing servers anywhere tbh - not heard.

Also it will mean that updates to US and EU servers in the future could have funny timing or set-up. Used to be a day or more delay with CodeMaster. Now I think it will be less but don't know how they will distribute code alterations from US server base to EU server base. That could be a ridiculously fast link tbh and probably will be - after all the STORE is still going to be run by one company and covers your WHOLE account (including your US and EU servers - I use both as do many others). Hope that turns out well

If this is true why didnt Vyv or Freelorn just post that on Friday when this all blew up?
You seem so certain , are you prepared to reimburse me all the money ive spent on my 3 accounts in the last 9 months if you are wrong?

[ertr]

Broken down we get:
1) on Monday (Jan 11) all the US AND EU servers will move to the same datacenter in New Jersey
2) Further move dates are still to be determined
3) Due to contractual obligations and logistics it was a safer call to do it this way
4) then re-evaluate once more data is gathered

My Thoughts:
1) This is self-explanatory, though whether it's temporary for EU or permanent is the question
2) They are Unsure when or IF the EU servers will move
3) This implies that there is CONSIDERABLE potential/red flags for contractual obligations and logistics issues to cause problems if Turbine goes forward with the planned EU move - legal or technical
4) They have to see what happens with moving the US datacenter to New Jersey and how they perform, as well as set up the EU servers on a temporary basis (for now), see how they perform, and see how the full range of servers in ONE datacenter works - HOPEFULLY any issues will be worked out within say ONE week.

My guess as to what is going on is that they don't quite feel ready to move to the EU datacenter yet. ( The Bullroarer tests of new hardware - presumably residing in the new datacenter - was only done in the US. No public tests of EU center has been done yet.)
Server moves have been delayed quite a bit compared to what they originally estimated.
They may already have cancelled the contract for the old datacenter and therefore need to be out of there before a certain data. (Such cancellation would have been done before it became clear just how much the moves would be delayed.)

If this is correct the contractual obligations mentioned is not anything concerning the new datacenter(s), but rather a need to leave the old one within the near future.
The wording implies they are still planning to move EU servers to EU (else any further moves would not be needed and no move dates would have to be determined at all) but do not know when they will feel ready to do so.

This is of course all conjecture and speculation, but until we get more information that is all we have.

[ertr]

And here's even more speculation. . .

The last year or so has been so disastrous for the game (not really due to anything the current team has done but rather due to the consequences of prior teams' decisions) where declining player numbers are concerned that having two datacenters no longer makes sense.

Of course, I'm probably projecting my own disenchantment with the game. And yet, my old kin, on our facebook page, has only angry "too little too late" type comments regardless of whatever news I post there in hopes of drawing them back.

A year ago, the numbers might have supported two datacenters. Today? Perhaps not so much.

I do not see anything that suggests the total number of players have declined over the last year. If you look at the data available at http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live.php the total population seems fairly stable over the last year or so. (It is possible that revenue has declined even so, but there is no public data available about that.)

[valimarr]

I have been playing this game from release. If I remember right the owner was Codemaster. Since then I have been on and off. I dont like spending my time on things that dont work. I think that these companies must start relising that we are customers. When we dont like the servece, we leave. So if Turbine is not able to tell us what the problem is, we leave. People accept much more from eachother when they tell eachother what the problems are. They stop guessing, like what is happening now in this discussion.
So, if Turbine takes the European customers serious they have to show that.

[Unthariel]

So basically today's move to new datacenter is just a windup, at least for European players. This is quite a disappointment. But let's just wait for servers to come back up and then we can see if this move even helps anything in terms of performance, lag and general comfort of playing. Personally I have a lot of doubts and I don't really expect any noticeable improvements, but I have made some benchmarks lately so I will repeat them with once servers come back up and the numbers will speak.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

My guess as to what is going on is that they don't quite feel ready to move to the EU datacenter yet. ( The Bullroarer tests of new hardware - presumably residing in the new datacenter - was only done in the US. No public tests of EU center has been done yet.)

I think this is the biggest thing right here.

My (optimistic) speculation is that they're not going to move the EU datacenter until they get a chance to do a public test, perhaps by moving Bullroarer there first. If that's the case, then they won't move Bullroarer until the current update sitting on it goes live. That way they can wipe the server and not have to worry about character data, only server data to move for testing. Then hopefully they will do some Bullroarer EU tests, followed by the official move for EU.

[Wibz]

I think this is the biggest thing right here.

My (optimistic) speculation is that they're not going to move the EU datacenter until they get a chance to do a public test, perhaps by moving Bullroarer there first. If that's the case, then they won't move Bullroarer until the current update sitting on it goes live. That way they can wipe the server and not have to worry about character data, only server data to move for testing. Then hopefully they will do some Bullroarer EU tests, followed by the official move for EU.

We'll see, a blue name (Vyvyanne) is answering festival questions, if she can't answer the EU data centre question simply, then it's clear that an EU data centre isn't a certainty....

[Dimea]

Really disappointing to see that Vyv can respond to a question about festival but not this thread.

There needs to be a huge improvement in performance when the servers come back up tonight. PvP is practically unplayable at peak hours, instance lag is making PvE content a less enjoyable thing than it should be. I'm afraid that players - a lot of them subscribers - will quit if the game doesn't run significantly smoother.

And as usual it is another PR disaster from Turbine. First thing I was ever taught about dealing with customers, was to set expectations correctly. Regardless of whether Amsterdam does or doesn't happen, Turbine have failed to manage player expectation at any stage of this consolidation and transfer process. Business schools need to be holding them up as an example of what not to do!

[Firgrim]

Really disappointing to see that Vyv can respond to a question about festival but not this thread.

There needs to be a huge improvement in performance when the servers come back up tonight. PvP is practically unplayable at peak hours, instance lag is making PvE content a less enjoyable thing than it should be. I'm afraid that players - a lot of them subscribers - will quit if the game doesn't run significantly smoother.

And as usual it is another PR disaster from Turbine. First thing I was ever taught about dealing with customers, was to set expectations correctly. Regardless of whether Amsterdam does or doesn't happen, Turbine have failed to manage player expectation at any stage of this consolidation and transfer process. Business schools need to be holding them up as an example of what not to do!

Probably preparing an "official" and approved response (assuming a response is forthcoming). The response about the festival timing is probably less critical and may need less "sign-off" to be made. Just basing that guess on my time in a large organization with 75 layers of middle-management.

If they're ignoring...well, that is a horse of a different color entirely.

[Wibz]

Probably preparing an "official" and approved response (assuming a response is forthcoming). The response about the festival timing is probably less critical and may need less "sign-off" to be made. Just basing that guess on my time in a large organization with 75 layers of middle-management.

If they're ignoring...well, that is a horse of a different color entirely.

Yet, if the EU data centre is something that is definitely happening and according to all public info before last week, it was definitely happening, then why would management need to be involved in a post says "The EU data centre move will happen, but due to 'factors' it isn't happening just yet, we'll keep you posted about dates."

The only reason management would need to be involved was if something major has changed, which can only mean........

[Vyvyanne]

We will have an official statement about the Amsterdam move in the next week or so. We are still gathering information and any official statements regarding EU have to be translated, so they go through more process.

For now, the current status is that all servers EU and US are being moved to NJ today in a more centralized location for all internet traffic and new hardware, so we hope all customers worldwide will see improvement. Beyond that is still TBD. That is all I will say on the subject for now.

[Jillymala]

We will have an official statement about the Amsterdam move in the next week or so. We are still gathering information and any official statements regarding EU have to be translated, so they go through more process.

For now, the current status is that all servers EU and US are being moved to NJ today in a more centralized location for all internet traffic and new hardware, so we hope all customers worldwide will see improvement. Beyond that is still TBD. That is all I will say on the subject for now.

Lack of transparency is disappointing to say the least, but if you are bound by chains that aren't allowing you to say whats really happening then there isn't much we can do but wait for what I now believe to be disappointing news for the EU players here. I'd love to be wrong, please.. for the sake of your EU playerbase.. prove me wrong.

[Arnenna]

Lack of transparency is disappointing to say the least, but if you are bound by chains that aren't allowing you to say whats really happening then there isn't much we can do but wait for what I now believe to be disappointing news for the EU players here. I'd love to be wrong, please.. for the sake of your EU playerbase.. prove me wrong.

Disappointing indeed, and was hoping for a bit more of an answer than that.
I'm on BR at the moment, and although I'm not sure whether it is running in NJ or not, my ping time there today is 162, compared with 98 on live this morning as Boston.

/sigh

So much for improvement.

[Kaldo]

Lack of transparency is disappointing to say the least, but if you are bound by chains that aren't allowing you to say whats really happening then there isn't much we can do but wait for what I now believe to be disappointing news for the EU players here.

When you have good news for your customers the first thing you do is: shout them out.

When you have bad news for your customers you have to ask sales and marketing for a positive wording that must be approved by multiple levels of management.

I guess marketing will come up with a spin like this:

"We have super exciting news! We monitored the new hardware in NJ and detected overwhelmingly huge improvements in connectivity for our european player base! Thus we will not affect them with further downtimes due to a move to Amsterdam. Just play on! We are really happy to have all of our hardware in one consolidated place which allows us to improve stability and performance even further!"

[Dimea]

When you have good news for your customers the first thing you do is: shout them out.

When you have bad news for your customers you have to ask sales and marketing for a positive wording that must be approved by multiple levels of management.

I guess marketing will come up with a spin like this:

"We have super exciting news! We monitored the new hardware in NJ and detected overwhelmingly huge improvements in connectivity for our european player base! Thus we will not affect them with further downtimes due to a move to Amsterdam. Just play on! We are really happy to have all of our hardware in one consolidated place which allows us to improve stability and performance even further!"

Sadly I expect you are right

[Arnenna]

When you have good news for your customers the first thing you do is: shout them out.

When you have bad news for your customers you have to ask sales and marketing for a positive wording that must be approved by multiple levels of management.

I guess marketing will come up with a spin like this:

"We have super exciting news! We monitored the new hardware in NJ and detected overwhelmingly huge improvements in connectivity for our european player base! Thus we will not affect them with further downtimes due to a move to Amsterdam. Just play on! We are really happy to have all of our hardware in one consolidated place which allows us to improve stability and performance even further!"

That will only wash, if indeed there is improvement for EU players on the NJ data centre. If it works out that way, then I'm fine with it, if not, well . . . I'll look forward to what they say when they cannot say that.

But for now I have to agree with you on the silence. Good news is very easy to give, bad news - tends to be tucked away until further notice.

[Twissle]

When you have good news for your customers the first thing you do is: shout them out.

When you have bad news for your customers you have to ask sales and marketing for a positive wording that must be approved by multiple levels of management.

I guess marketing will come up with a spin like this:

"We have super exciting news! We monitored the new hardware in NJ and detected overwhelmingly huge improvements in connectivity for our european player base! Thus we will not affect them with further downtimes due to a move to Amsterdam. Just play on! We are really happy to have all of our hardware in one consolidated place which allows us to improve stability and performance even further!"

Yep. Reading between the lines, this seems a likely outcome now. There's going to be a lot of disappointed customers if so.

[Grimdoin_EU]

Great, after waiting for months and getting a reassuring answer just a few weeks ago the whole thing just blew up. As mentioned for good news you don't need all the layers of communication. Sadly we probably will never know the true story behind this. For now I will just accept the fact the move to Amsterdam will probably not happen. Hopefully the performance in the new DC will be good and connection remain at least at the same level for us EU players.

[Valgalad]

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...=1#post7515350

Now you wake up guys ?

No one noticed they didn't talk about it officially for months.... ?


As i said in the other thread, let's wait until they drop the idea saying ' we made a lot of tests and due to 'bla bla...', we will stay in New-Jersey

Or perhaps ' the vast majority of players saw a real improvement in playability... we don't want to risk 'bla bla...'

Sad, really...


or perhaps .... "SOON" ?? lol i don't believe it ^^

[DieLaFuzz]

It took me time, but I have come to appreciate what Turbine as a dev team is able to do given their limited resources, and it's nothing short of excellent. But I have also been constantly infuriated with their management. They raise expectations then fail to deliver - it's a recurring pattern.

Even so, in this particular case, I think that the decision to operate the "new datacenter in Amsterdam" is beyond Turbine's reach. WB may have decided not to invest in it no matter what their initial plans as stated in the Summer LOTRO Executive Producer's Letter were, and they're perfectly able to afford a few dozens / hundreds of users jumping ship. The day too many of us leave for their likes they'll close shop - period.

I for one don't count on seeing EU servers any time soon. Once again I'm sincerely disappointed. Wish I was proven wrong.

[DieLaFuzz]

That will only wash, if indeed there is improvement for EU players on the NJ data centre. If it works out that way, then I'm fine with it, if not, well . . . I'll look forward to what they say when they cannot say that.

"It's your hardware / connection / whatever, things are running perfectly smooth on our side".

[Valgalad]

Just to remember : 16 oct 2015



Question Amsterdam ?



From Developer Diary:

"
The Future

So what happens after we are all moved over to the remaining ten? Lots of fun times ahead. The new data center we will be moving provides a much faster connection to the internet with more direct ports to all territories. We are updating all of our software to the latest and greatest versions and all of the worlds are moving to new top of the line hardware allowing for less interruptions of service and a smoother gameplay experience for us all.
"

Well, this is the last time you talked about hardware officially... yes, on the forums months ago you gave hope to european players about better ping and a move to Amsterdam...

From that point, we never saw again any reference about it : a " much faster connection to the internet with more direct ports to all territories " doesn't mean Europe to me...

We are a lot of players asking ourselves if at some point you will say "due to technical (bla bla..) we decided to host everything on a better hardware and a faster access - in US - that will provide a better experience (bla bla..) even to european players..."

As i feel i'll not be answered by Vyvyane (and sorry but Maartena is not a Turbine guy as far as i know), i hope i'm wrong... but if that move to Amsterdam was just a marketing operation on the General Forum months ago, to be honest, we'll be frustrated...

Hoping an answer...

Last edited by Valgalad; Oct 16 2015 at 02:48 PM.