Who is excited?

[Coeprandua]

I am excited! And no sarcasm.

Silvan War Antlers was a fun one! Speculate on what the quite a few new offers will be.

Please.

[Hurin]

I expect more things that allow us to bypass grind in the game. And those buying these things will then wonder why the game is so grind-centric even as they assert that what they buy in the Store has no effect on the game or anyone else who plays it.

--H

[Catburg]

Does new offers mean new items or old items on offer in new ways?

Wouldn't surprise me if they put some of the Bingo quest barter items in the store as there is (currently) only a finite number of barter tokens you can get per character.

[OldMadeOfLions]

Wouldn't surprise me if they put some of the Bingo quest barter items in the store as there is (currently) only a finite number of barter tokens you can get per character.

Players would have to really want this for this to happen. I've been clear from the beginning that there are only so many Bingo Badges in the system, and I like it that way. I'm not saying I can't be overruled, but I like it as-designed.

MoL

[Coeprandua]

I expect more things that allow us to bypass grind

I hope not.

[Dmira]

I expect more things that allow us to bypass grind in the game. And those buying these things will then wonder why the game is so grind-centric even as they assert that what they buy in the Store has no effect on the game or anyone else who plays it.

--H

Do you honestly think that not offering items that reduce the grind will eliminate the grind from the game? I'm happy they offer alternatives to the grind. I would much rather spend my time playing the game than grinding. That said, I would like to see the grind lessened as well.

[Hurin]

Do you honestly think that not offering items that reduce the grind will eliminate the grind from the game?

Do you honestly think that a company in the business of selling you grind avoidance isn't then motivated to increase the amount of grind in the game beyond where it would otherwise be?

I'm happy they offer alternatives to the grind. I would much rather spend my time playing the game than grinding. That said, I would like to see the grind lessened as well.

And there is the rub. You're "happy" to have a way around the grind. And by availing yourself of that way around the grind, you make sure that grind will likely never be reduced and will almost certainly increase overall despite reduction in grind being something you would "like to see."

Those two things are in direct conflict. And it's utterly depressing how many people can't see that.

You have made grind a direct source of revenue rather than a means of stretching out content between updates (as it was in subscription era).

[Thoroval]

Players would have to really want this for this to happen. I've been clear from the beginning that there are only so many Bingo Badges in the system, and I like it that way. I'm not saying I can't be overruled, but I like it as-designed.

MoL

Only if the store also offers all other content-gated (especially raid-gated) cosmetics, decorations, trophies, emotes, titles, etc. including all the Hobnanigans items (with their outrageous prices).

In other words, this shouldn't happen and I sincerely hope it doesn't happen. I say this even though I know this means I must take one or two additional characters through the quest chain in order to get all the items I want to get. So be it.

[daneyul]

I'd be more excited if there was going to be some new offerings.

I can't imagine what the LotRO store is going to offer for our stuff. Seems weird, but I guess we'll know soon.

[Phindecano]

I suppose stat tomes XVII-XVIII will appear there so we could spent 3k more TPs to get this little boost for the raid

[Lord.Funk]

I am excited! And no sarcasm.

Silvan War Antlers was a fun one! Speculate on what the quite a few new offers will be.

Please.

I am if it means new cosmetic outfits, rides etc. Maybe some that have not been able to get for years or totally new ones. Can never have too many boutfits to chose from as an alt-a-holic. It's imoprtant to look cool even when You get defeated.

However that text could also just mean new "offers" as in bundles or discounts on old items but let's hope it's new items or items some might have missed getting that now becomes available in the store. I'm not a fan of boosts to bypass grind as that becomes the hen or the egg kind of thing. More grind is added to sell more boosts etc. I rather they add cosmetics that are up to people to buy or not and doesn't affect game-play design.

[Dmira]

Do you honestly think that a company in the business of selling you grind avoidance isn't then motivated to increase the amount of grind in the game beyond where it would otherwise be?

And there is the rub. You're "happy" to have a way around the grind. And by availing yourself of that way around the grind, you make sure that grind will likely never be reduced and will almost certainly increase overall despite reduction in grind being something you would "like to see."

Those two things are in direct conflict. And it's utterly depressing how many people can't see that.

You have made grind a direct source of revenue rather than a means of stretching out content between updates (as it was in subscription era).

So, then using your logic players should just buck up and grind and grind and grind when there is a perfectly acceptable alternative available? No thanks. I have better things to do. Let grinding be source of revenue. Turbine has to make money somewhere. I have no problem with that.

[Curuer_Bauglir]

So, then using your logic players should just buck up and grind and grind and grind when there is a perfectly acceptable alternative available? No thanks. I have better things to do. Let grinding be source of revenue. Turbine has to make money somewhere. I have no problem with that.

If you choose to pay to bypass some or all of the grind, you are certainly within your rights to do so. Don't be surprised when even greater grind is introduced in future updates as an incentive for players to continue to pay to bypass the grind. Just a few posts ago, you stated that you "would like to see the grind lessened". By paying to bypass the grind, you are actually encouraging Turbine to do the opposite and increase the grind as a means to generate revenue. Again, I'm not judging if you pay to bypass the grind. I'm just pointing out that you are making contradictory statements by stating you'd like to see the grind lessened AND that you think Turbine should let grinding be a source of revenue.

[Hurin]

So, then using your logic. . .

I assure you, this is a brand of logic all your own. . .

players should just buck up and grind and grind and grind when there is a perfectly acceptable alternative available?

No. Players should refuse to play games that introduce such perverse, circular incentives and conflicts of interest. . .

But, to some degree, you seem to be realizing that you can't simultaneously campaign for less grind while handing the company who produces them money to avoid them. When you are in the business of selling grind avoidance, it is also your business to make grinds worse, not better. Literally, this business model entails annoying their customers into paying them money.

That you consider such things "perfectly acceptable" even as you state that less grind should be a goal. . . it's all just sorta. . . funny. Though not in a "ha ha" way.

Let grinding be source of revenue. Turbine has to make money somewhere. I have no problem with that.

. . . and we come full circle. Remember when I said that people buy these things and then wonder why the game has gotten so much more "grindy?" Well, it's because we have the game we deserve. Because so many people think like this.

Turbine does indeed have to make money. But you assert a false dichotomy by implying this is the only/best way they could do so.

--H

[Dmira]

I'm just pointing out that you are making contradictory statements by stating you'd like to see the grind lessened AND that you think Turbine should let grinding be a source of revenue.

You're right. I was thinking of other players when I said I would like to see the grind reduced.

[Tarlywyn]

The picture in the new store offerings section has me wondering.

Freep Nazgul outfits? Really?

New monster class?

Splitting Far Anorien into a quest pack and instance pack?

[Dmira]

Turbine does indeed have to make money. But you assert a false dichotomy by implying this is the only/best way they could do so.

I made no such assertion. I simply said I would gladly pay to avoid the grind. I did not say what was better or worse. If you want to continue to grind and complain that's fine with me. If I want to pay to avoid the grind and enjoy the game I will do so as long as Turbine offers that option.

Players should refuse to play games that introduce such perverse, circular incentives and conflicts of interest. . .

Then why are you still here? Why have you not found another game?

[ShireDweller]

...

Splitting Far Anorien into a quest pack and instance pack?

As it should have been all along. I doubt they'll do this though. Makes too much sense.

[ShireDweller]

...
Then why are you still here? Why have you not found another game?

Don't mind Hurin. This is his particular axe to grind, at any opportunity.

After a while you learn to tune it out, and just play the game the way you want without answering to anyone or feeling like you need to justify your choices to anyone else.

[Hurin]

You're right. I was thinking of other players when I said I would like to see the grind reduced.

Ummm. . .

That said, I would like to see the grind lessened as well.

So "I" and "as well" does not mean you as well as others?

And you expect to be taken seriously while being so disingenuous?

You can't lead a person to a reasonable conclusion based on what they've said when they're basically willing to say anything at any time and not even acknowledge that what they have said prior was untrue.

I made no such assertion.

Look up "imply." When you say that "Turbine needs to make money some way" in the context of selling grind avoidance, you imply that this is one of those ways. That's how language works.

Again, you won't be held to the plain meaning of what you say. . . so your'e obviously one of those folks with whom discussion is wholly pointless. You want to see grind reduced. . . then you don't. You say that Turbine needs to sell grind avoidance to make money. . . then they don't.

If you want to continue to grind and complain that's fine with me.

I choose another option: I just play far less than I used to and no longer play alts. Hint: People like me doing that is not good for Turbine in the long-run.

Then why are you still here? Why have you not found another game?

Tolkien.

Don't mind Hurin. This is his particular axe to grind, at any opportunity.

After a while you learn to tune it out, and just play the game the way you want without answering to anyone or feeling like you need to justify your choices to anyone else.

Missing from this is any substantive explanation about how what I've said is actually wrong on the merits. Which, of course, is because what I'm saying is inescapably, necessarily true.

Dmira didn't seem aware of the conflicts of interests and perverse incentives inherent in the business model. Hence the obtuse question directed my way. I answered it at length. Unfortunately, rather than acknowledge the new information as accurate, we're now seeing the standard forum shenanigans: Disingenuousness, question-begging, goalpost-moving, and now with the "who are you to judge me!?!". . . moralistic preening.

I merely pointed out that those who purchase grind avoidance encourage/incentivize the creation of more/new grinds even while they state that they would prefer the opposite. If you see such a fundamental truth as "judgement" being cast upon you, that's on you, not me.

Again, we have the game we (as a whole) deserve.

[Thundertrain]

I hope not.

Because you'd prefer to just have them reduce the grind in the game, rather than make a grind and then add store options to shorten it?

[Hurin]

Because you'd prefer to just have them reduce the grind in the game, rather than make a grind and then add store options to shorten it?

Or they could design the game (including its grinds) according to sound game design principles (what makes a game fun/compelling/satisfying) rather than trying to find the point where the greatest number of people will be annoyed enough to buy their way around their intentionally tedious design without aggravating them to the point of quitting outright.

The former is how you design a game with integrity as a game. The latter is how you create a game where the interests of the designers and the players are fundamentally at odds with each other. Edit: Though sadly, even as many hand over their cash and provide incentive for Turbine to create more content they dislike, they don't even realize that this is the case. . . as demonstrated in this thread.

It's not even about "reducing" the grind in the game as you put it. . . it's about putting the grind in the game for legitimate (gameplay-based) reasons. Which, yes, would likely result in a reduction. . . but that's incidental.

[Thundertrain]

Hurin,

I don't disagree with your point at all. I was actually trying to determine why Coeprandua was hoping that the store items wouldn't be new be new ways to speed up grind; if he had an issue with the grind itself (which was my hope), or that he wanted every player to have to go through the grind to "earn" rewards rather than paying for them.

[Herwegur]

Speculate on what the quite a few new offers will be.

New housing hooks, unlockable in the store. Cheaper in bundles. Very excited about additional decoration placement options we've been seeing on Bullroarer, but I never thought they will be freely available for all. Big demand, fluff luxury, easy to monetize, perfect for store. And hopefully the profits will keep Lotro going for years to come. Speaking honestly.

[Coeprandua]

Hurin,

I don't disagree with your point at all. I was actually trying to determine why Coeprandua was hoping that the store items wouldn't be new be new ways to speed up grind; if he had an issue with the grind itself (which was my hope), or that he wanted every player to have to go through the grind to "earn" rewards rather than paying for them.

Well, I didn't want to talk grind in this thread, but since you are wondering I'm with Húrin on this 100%.
I'm hoping it's not about grind reduction or mounts or pets. Those are pretty boring store offers.