U18.2B1 Eriador frills increase

[LeRaginAsian]

This thread should be called "Frills Gone Wild".

I definitely appreciate how much more lush and untamed Eriador feels now, but I was a bit disappointed when I got to some areas of Forochel. I get that not much can grow in those conditions, but I would have taken anything there, even little piles of snow.

[Celebrawn]

It's not out of the question for brush to be growing out of the stone surfaces. The gardener just hasn't been pulling weeds in awhile.

[YamydeAragon]

It's not out of the question for brush to be growing out of the stone surfaces. The gardener just hasn't been pulling weeds in awhile.

Sam the Gardener is not available at the moment to deweed the walkways. He is busy on his fellowship mission with Frodo.

[Phantion]

About the Rivendell thing-

Before making a final decision, please consider the following:

Keep the trees and stuff, but move it to be -near- the Last Homely House without it being right -next- to the Last Homely House. I love the idea of Elrond having a glade near his place filled to the brim with bushes, wildlife, trees, and frills- these are Elves not Romans. But at the same time, I appreciate the faithfulness to the text and the idea of not having the trees directly obscure the Last Homely House.

So my simple suggestion is this: move the garden. There's a nice spot where a stream flows into the lake behind the Last Homely House. Put the trees, frills, flowers, bushes, and statues there. I've liked this idea since seeing in the films the scenes with Elrond and Aragorn and/or Elrond and Arwen pacing through his garden at nightfall in the moonlight with the stars shining, light slanting on the trees and statues. That's beautiful stuff too- as much as Tolkien's image of travelers from afar seeing the twinkling lights of the Last Homely House East of the Sea far below.

So my point is that this doesn't have to be an either/or thing- book fans vs. movie fans or any of that rubbish. Simply provide the vistas for both- the garden in a place that doesn't obscure the twinkling lights of the house from afar, while still feasibly close enough to imagine Lord Elrond walking and meditating in it after nightfall.

I deeply love the books, and have fond memories of seeing the films as a child, which introduced me to the books. The game isn't film-based- I understand that. But there are some ideas that can translate without lore-obstruction. Truly, there's nothing wrong with imagining Elves meditating in gardens beneath the stars- nothing wrong with it at all- and I don't want to see the Last Homely House area completely restored back to what it is on live: a 1950's-style lawn with nothing but painted grass on the 'ground.' It really looks atrocious when you consider what the rest of the world looks like. Elves don't have lawn-mowers- sorry to say. Unless Lord Elrond has a bunch of Elf-slaves pulling-up grass on a daily basis, which I highly doubt.

Oh, and Treebeard agrees with me. *Smiles*

[dstini]

I am very happy this was done, the areas certainly needed it. Frills are fairly gpu heavy, but they're not going to cause any undue lag on decent systems. That's a different matter entirely in the new areas.

[Phantion]

Yeah its great.

I'd also like to petition Turbine to update northern Rhovanion also. I want Nanduhirion in Lothlorien to have that Rohan-style grass (yes yes Orc-trampling and all, but the War of Dwarves and Orcs was years ago in the lore, and the current Orc presence is pretty minor in comparison- not enough to stamp-down all the grass frills; as of now, looks like the grass is just painted there between the East Gate of Moria and Nimrodel), maybe an added update to the frills in Lothlorien (don't remove any of the plants that are currently there though!), and the Great River region could use the frills also (except in the Rushgore that's pretty frilled-up as it is). Other problems include snowy-rocks in places that have no snow- its egregious in the Brownlands and in the Stonedeans; I guess a graphics update on some of the rocky-wall and boulder textures went awry. Obviously Eastern and Western Rohan don't need a frill update- they introduced these frills in the first place. But Great River, Lothlorien, and Southern Mirkwood definitely need some love.

Southern Mirkwood needs the love most of all. The trees look cartoony and kind of outdated. The distant imposters don't even work- and I'm on a very decent CPU on full graphics- the Mirkwood trees have heavy digital problems regardless. The frills in Mirkwood also need an overhaul. Really, I wish Mirkwood would get a bit of a material revamp, replacing all those older trees with Fangorn-style trees and fir-trees as was the case in the Scuttledells instance that was introduced with the Erebor raids. These Fangornish trees are also distant imposters for Mirkwood in the Anduin Vales Beorning starter-area. I also wish the sky was more like the Dawnless Day in Gondor, which has far better graphics than Mirkwood's current sky that feels rainy rather than murky, not the right type of bleak.

Regardless, much deserved kudos to Turbine for the Eriador frill-revamp! I love it! *Smiles*

[Dniektr]

Happy to see it finally coming. I'm going to reroll just to be able to rediscover regions.
I do agree with Phantion, the trees next to the Last House are not that bad, but they're way to close to have a beautiful and clear view of it.
By the way, does anyone could post a few photos of Ered Luin, Bree area, Evendim or Galgals ? Thanks. I don't have the connection to download the beta launcher.
(English is not my native language so apologies for the mistakes)

[Phantion]

Fortunately, the trees have been moved to a more correct position lore-wise. They are now along the little stream flowing into the lake beyond the Last Homely House. I highly endorse this visual interpretation and would not want it to be further meddled with. It's fine. It does not obstruct the beauty- it adds to it.

The lore describes the clear views of the Last Homely House being from two key directions: heading north up the High Pass in "The Hobbit" and heading southwest to the High Moor as described in LOTR. Now its clear and visible without obstruction to both views- the trees should stay there along the stream now as its a pretty fun place in which to rp and/or wander-around. I love it.

[Marcho_Brandybuck]

Fortunately, the trees have been moved to a more correct position lore-wise. They are now along the little stream flowing into the lake beyond the Last Homely House. I highly endorse this visual interpretation and would not want it to be further meddled with. It's fine. It does not obstruct the beauty- it adds to it.

The lore describes the clear views of the Last Homely House being from two key directions: heading north up the High Pass in "The Hobbit" and heading southwest to the High Moor as described in LOTR. Now its clear and visible without obstruction to both views- the trees should stay there along the stream now as its a pretty fun place in which to rp and/or wander-around. I love it.

When we are already comparing descriptions from the books with what we see in the game ... Prancing Pony in Bree was more similar to what we read in the books before the update from a few years ago when they introduced graphically update Bree. Tavern building should be buried in the hill. But no matter. That was years ago and has nothing to do with this update...
Here are just today I rode through Eregion to see what it looks like once my favorite region. everything was fine until I got to the place where the Fellowship confronted with Wolves ... I was surprised. Burnt Tor should look burned and not covered with vegetation!

[Phantion]

Yeah- Eregion, in my view, is the only zone that suffers from this update- particularly southern Eregion. Nan Sirannon was a country of red stones in the books, barren and desert-like, not having any green grass or anything of the sort. Burnt Tor is the same story. So, really, they needed to kind of -cut- the frills in the Nan Sirannon area as well as the other area that's directly south of it, kind of east of Emyn Naer. If they insist on having grass, I'd prefer the Wold-style, burned to a crisp grass at the least, but even that would be a stretch. It needs an -absence- of frills in those parts. Its also odd, for example, for there to be grass up on the Redhorn Gate near the Snowfall area where the Fellowship was trapped at the walls of the cliffs of Caradhras. It should just be snow. No green grass. Just snow! They seemingly know nothin' about what happens when a blizzard happens- its so off-kilter and terrible all one can do is laugh.

Eregion's fine in the areas that are -supposed- to be covered with grass.

If they don't change anything, I do have good news: there's an easy solution- Turn-off the frills whenever you're in the eastern Redhorn or in Nan Sirannon or Burnt Tor. No one should -have- to do this- the frills shouldn't be designed to be in these areas in the first place. But its still a solution that works to cut the grass off the burned hill-top and off the deserted areas and off the blizzard-laden snow. Its not an ideal solution, but it still works, although its incredibly annoying immersion-wise to have to do that.

[YamydeAragon]

Yeah- Eregion, in my view, is the only zone that suffers from this update- particularly southern Eregion. Nan Sirannon was a country of red stones in the books, barren and desert-like, not having any green grass or anything of the sort. Burnt Tor is the same story. So, really, they needed to kind of -cut- the frills in the Nan Sirannon area as well as the other area that's directly south of it, kind of east of Emyn Naer. If they insist on having grass, I'd prefer the Wold-style, burned to a crisp grass at the least, but even that would be a stretch. It needs an -absence- of frills in those parts. Its also odd, for example, for there to be grass up on the Redhorn Gate near the Snowfall area where the Fellowship was trapped at the walls of the cliffs of Caradhras. It should just be snow. No green grass. Just snow! They seemingly know nothin' about what happens when a blizzard happens- its so off-kilter and terrible all one can do is laugh.

Eregion's fine in the areas that are -supposed- to be covered with grass.

If they don't change anything, I do have good news: there's an easy solution- Turn-off the frills whenever you're in the eastern Redhorn or in Nan Sirannon or Burnt Tor. No one should -have- to do this- the frills shouldn't be designed to be in these areas in the first place. But its still a solution that works to cut the grass off the burned hill-top and off the deserted areas and off the blizzard-laden snow. Its not an ideal solution, but it still works, although its incredibly annoying immersion-wise to have to do that.

I think that you are seriously confused about where & where not can grow grass, so let me break it down:

Not Growing grass/plants:

• Recently Stomped
  
  • Any orc encampment
  • frequently used Roads
  • Horses Stable
• Recently Burned
  
  • Middle of any Campfire
  • Places that got incinerated recently
• Recently cleared crop field

Growing Grass/plants:

• Natural forest
• Man made woodlands
• Gardens & growing crop field
• Wild Valleys
• Marshlands
• Rocky terrain
• Any man made ruin that have being abandoned too long
• Semi arid or Desert
• Tundra or equivalent mountain heights

I already explained all the above but Tundra. Just in case you wonder that means snow covered places. Plants that grow on this kind of environment have a natural antifrezzing & will not care that you think that those plants can't grow there. They will grow there & may even produce fruits at the very middle of winter. They are the main sustain of many vegetarian wildlife animals. Here are some pictures of plants growing in the ice & snow: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...=0-0&sp=-1&sk= https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...snow&FORM=IGRE . The bottom line is that life don't care about where we think that plants can or can't grow, because that place is uncomfortable for humans. They don't have the same limitations as humans, they live by other rules. Life will bloom at any place & at any chance they have & will adapt when needed. They did before humans came & they will continue after humans are gone.

[elvenes]

the only thing you need to do Yamy, is re-read Lord of the Rings, chapter where the company goes through Eregion. The land is described a certain way in the book, and no amount of your "wisdom" about nature and tundra can change the book's description. Especially Burnt Tor, because you know... Gandalf sweeping it with fire to repel the wargs left it immaculate and the grass regrew in one day. and Redhorn is described as being ""mighty peak, tipped with snow like silver, but with sheer naked sides", on Sirannon I may concede you the benefit of the doubt

[Phantion]

"Gandalf halted. Snow was thick on his hood and shoulders; it was already ankle-deep about his boots... The wind whistled and the snow became a blinding blizzard. Soon even Boromir found it hard to keep going... eddying blasts swirled around them from every side, and the snow flowed down in ever denser clouds... If they had had no larger companions the hobbits soon would have been entirely buried... As the light grew stronger it showed a silent shrouded world. Below their refuge were white humps and domes and shapeless deeps beneath which the path that they had trodden was altogether lost; but the heights above were hidden in great clouds still heavy with the threat of snow." -Tolkien, FOTR, Chapter 3, "The Ring Goes South," the 11th-13th pages into the chapter.

"The morning was passing towards noon, and still the Company wandered and scrambled in a barren country of red stones. Nowhere could they see any gleam of water or hear any sound of it. All was bleak and dry. Their hearts sank. They saw no living thing, and not a bird was in the sky; but what the night would bring, if it caught them in that lost land, none of them cared to think." -Tolkien, FOTR, Chapter 4, "A Journey in the Dark," the 4th page or so into the chapter.

Regardless of rl circumstances of tundra, Eregion is more of a temperate area, not far in the arctic-North like Forochel, and the descriptions in the text are clear: Nan Sirannon should be bereft of vegetation- as should the snow-laden areas in the eastern Redhorn-Gate. Its clear that any grass would've been buried by the snow-fall that nearly buried hobbits. It's also clear that the Company did not travel through pleasant green-grassy plains dotted with red stones; the land was "barren" and "bleak" (Tolkien FOTR).

[Erennor]

It is one day before the launch of the new update and from what I saw the added frills are unfinished still. It is very disappointing to see this as the setting alone is what has earned LotRO so many players over the years, and still the/a main reason it draws others, and also a cause of return. It has been a matter of admiration. Do not mistake me, this visual update makes the older areas look more detailed, and much more up to date with the later half of the game, but it is clear from very many examples, that this has been done not with much care.

Some patches of grass with very different hue from the ground making these 'surfaces' stand out and look very 'game-like', especially when you turn the camera around from an upper angle; elsewhere the added frills are right in front of doors, cover entire pathways, and enter into some towns/settlements, through npcs, fires, walls, water surfaces, bridges, rocks, benches, tents, pillars, logs, and more. These spots (based on what I saw after built 3), were hundreds. I thought to check again today, ere writing this post, just an hour ago, and from what I saw, apart from some (such as the tress on the bridges in Rivendell) they are unfixed yet. One day ere launch.

The visual update is welcome, but it is not finished. Even though the older areas looked less detailed before, at least then, they were, in a sense, complete/right, in that they did not seem rushed and done with less care with grass going through all the aforementioned examples. Also, the transition between Bree-lands and Lone-lands, is sudden. It could receive some more attention and time to make the transition look more believable.

Again, there are other places that the added frills have been applied very well in a way that looks complete and finished, such as those places in Evendim posted in the first page of this thread. But it is not universal. Other, very many others spots/places have received much less care.


For those that have not seen, here is a video. And this is only a few of such examples.

And here is a comparison with the different colors. The second screenshot shows the same color of hue as the ground cover, whereas the first, is very different. This is evident in some places, especially in the Shire from what I saw.

Fortunately, the trees have been moved to a more correct position lore-wise. They are now along the little stream flowing into the lake beyond the Last Homely House. I highly endorse this visual interpretation and would not want it to be further meddled with. It's fine. It does not obstruct the beauty- it adds to it.

The lore describes the clear views of the Last Homely House being from two key directions: heading north up the High Pass in "The Hobbit" and heading southwest to the High Moor as described in LOTR. Now its clear and visible without obstruction to both views- the trees should stay there along the stream now as its a pretty fun place in which to rp and/or wander-around. I love it.

Yea. For my part, when I saw this, it was not just the description from the book that came to mind, but that an iconic view/moment was almost entirely hidden. Think for example Meduseld later been covered, say by giant rocks, or tall trees; the majestic and awe-inspiring Argonath hidden by a block of trees. Regardless of the the directions given in the books, the trees in front of the house of Elrond gave a negative change to the iconic view; the Last Homely House was blocked from view when approaching it. We would see it from afar, much less detailed, as a distant imposter, and almost none of it when just outside the house.


But thankfully the Last Homely House has been restored to its previous clear and iconic view.

[Erennor]

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[Silmelin]

Oh! The area around The Last Homely House looks great now! Well done, Turbinite who fiddled with the vegetation!
And thank you for the screenshot, Erennor!

[Erennor]

Yea : )

It was very pleasing to see this restored and receiving back its original iconic and impressive view.

[TheGeekGirl]

Thanks for sharing shots of the Lone Lands! I haven't had an excuse to get back there, but it really looks vastly different now. In a good way, I think

[Aphasial]

Thanks for sharing shots of the Lone Lands! I haven't had an excuse to get back there, but it really looks vastly different now. In a good way, I think

Although I tend to agree -- I wasn't sure at first, but I myself live in a semi-arid area (San Diego, CA) and have to admit that it matches up with the natural areas of our county -- one thing the Lone Lands really does highlight is the lack of distant imposters for a lot of this vegetation.

For larger trees it's one thing, but the ground/brush is definitely darker and absolutely more varied than the flat geometry of the land, so the pop-in as we get to frill distance is *really* noticeable as you're travelling around. It's not helped by the ridiculously vast vistas that we can see at once, but there are probably other areas with long views as well.

It would really be less jarring if there were distant imposters for the scrub, or if the coloring was averaged out a little bit. Even with everything on Ultra High, it's pretty distracting seeing the straight line of the vegetation coming into draw range.