Boxing + Farming Should Require Multiple *Subscriptions*

[watevaplz]

No, you finally answered the question and I accept your answer.


Acquiring vast sums of gold within an MMO over months and years while watching Netflix is not quite the same thing as using a cheezy move in a shooter. But if it makes you feel better to think this way and compare apples to aircraft carriers, hey. . . do whatever helps you sleep at night.

This topic is base on hypothetical future isn't it. So everything is HYPOTHETICALLY possible.

Type in google multibox. You can see how many games ALLOW it.

Type in game Multibox farm. You can see how many games allow it

The notion of companies regarding multiboxing acquiring items in their game world is not prohibited. Been going on for many years. But if it makes YOU feel better we can go back to Hypothetical Hyperbowl of yours. We can add Hypothetical Aircraft Carriers if you like. Hypothetically speaking. You can even start a movement so companies can see your Hypothetical Hyperbowl of a distant future.

[Gyes]

Except combat multiboxing has been going on since alpha with full knowledge and understanding by the devs both then and now, including how they do it. Turbine allowed it, even modified their launcher to accommodate it. SSG allows it.

You don't like it, fine. Don't do it. Calling it an exploit when it's been clarified time and time and time and time again that it's allowed now falls into the definition of insanity.

Just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's not an exploit. And again, there's absolutely no evidence - nothing to be gleaned from dev behavior or from an explicit statement from the devs - that they intend or want players to *combat* multibox. The definition of an exploit is using a system in an unintended way for your own personal benefit. In order for combat multiboxing *not* to be an exploit, the devs need to say that they intend for everyone to run around with 12 LMs to help them kill. Have you ever seen the devs say that?

For the record, all new areas have lag that has nothing to do with boxers. Go back and read the "OMG there's lag" threads after every release of a new area since....time began.

Yes, all new areas have lag *that has nothing to do with boxers*. They also have lag that is directly caused by boxers. No boxers wouldn't mean no lag. It would mean less lag, which is certainly a good thing.

I will ask you, since the other champion of multiboxers seems unwilling to answer:

1) Do you honestly think SSG wants or expects you to run a little army?
2) Do you think the game would be better or worse if everyone else ran 12 accounts simultaneously?
3) What benefit does allowing multiboxing add to the quality of the game?

[Hurin]

Then you have nothing to worry about. Indeed, one can even argue that if you're crazy enough to go through the tedium of operating 6-24 clients unassisted (I'd rather eat a bowl of glass), then you deserve whatever loot you accrue (I'm not making that argument, but I can see where others might). That might even save you should SSG ever decide to implement the plain meaning of the clause in the EULA where 3rd party applications and "advantage" are concerned, which would ensnare the vast majority of farmers. Though you'd still need to worry about other clauses.

But, again, according to you, you have nothing to worry about. According to your thinking you should feel fully confident that your behavior is fully condoned and will remain so. So why worry about this thread at all? One wonders if perhaps your conscience bothers you.

On some level, you realize what you're doing after all.

[watevaplz]

J
Yes, all new areas have lag *that has nothing to do with boxers*. They also have lag that is directly caused by boxers. No boxers wouldn't mean no lag. It would mean less lag, which is certainly a good thing.

?

I already discussed this but all regions are separated in different partitions of the server, they are technically not all in ONE server but parts of it. So I give you an example before U20 mostly everyone in North Ithilien have LAG and other regions dont suffer any. Same goes as if you are in South Bree you get this "reduced awareness" but other parts of the region (aka server) you don't. It is misconception that everyone is in the "same" server but the truth is that they are in parts of the server as a whole.

If the notion of Multiboxers are the caused of all lag and should be require to pay monthly then F2P overall is taking this "debunked SSG's resources" that should technically in the same aspect pay up.

[watevaplz]

Then you have nothing to worry about. Indeed, one can even argue that if you're crazy enough to go through the tedium of operating 6-24 clients unassisted (I'd rather eat a bowl of glass), then you deserve whatever loot you accrue (I'm not making that argument, but I can see where others might). That might even save you should SSG ever decide to implement the plain meaning of the clause in the EULA where 3rd party applications and "advantage" are concerned, which would ensnare the vast majority of farmers. Though you'd still need to worry about other clauses.

But, again, according to you, you have nothing to worry about. According to your thinking you should feel fully confident that your behavior is fully condoned and will remain so. So why worry about this thread at all? One wonders if perhaps your conscience bothers you.

On some level, you realize what you're doing after all.

I have nothing to worry about. But you guys are clearly misguided with your "Hypothetical Future" and blaming multiboxers for lag, inflation, "moral dilmena" and asking SSG to change their policies which are not justified.

[Hurin]

I have nothing to worry about. But you guys are clearly misguided with your "Hypothetical Future" and blaming multiboxers for lag, inflation, "moral dilmena" and asking SSG to change their policies which are not justified.

So, you have nothing to worry about. Since it's not justified, they will of course see that.

Or maybe it is justified. And you're worried they might see that instead.

[watevaplz]

So, you have nothing to worry about. Since it's not justified, they will of course see that.

Or maybe it is justified. And you're worried they might see that instead.

If you are speaking yet another "Hypothetical" sure. I give you that if it makes you sleep well tonight.

[Rufkin]

I'll happily take a crack at these even though I am not for automated boxing:

1) Do you honestly think SSG wants or expects you to run a little army?

Yes. They want every penny they can get, and anyone that is willing to foot the bill for a good enough pc capable of running 6-12 clients at a time is definitely worth appealing to in terms of investing into LotRO points and expansion. They already know these people can be milked and they are milking them for as much as they can.

2) Do you think the game would be better or worse if everyone else ran 12 accounts simultaneously?

Everyone that can do this, and is willing to do this, is already doing this. If, in a world where everyone was able and wanted to do this, then everyone would be totally okay with it happening, wouldn't they? In addition to that, if everyone were doing this there would be absolutely no threat of ruining the game's quality or economy or whatever.

3) What benefit does allowing multiboxing add to the quality of the game?

If I am lucky enough to loot a low level stat tome from somewhere, and I post it in trade or on the AH, I can earn enough gold from a boxer to pay for my hobbit hole for a few years. The same is true if I farm a stack of ore, or a stack of reputation tomes via Thorog runs, or anything of value at all. They will pay for it, so it does benefit me in the long run. Now, when you are talking about quality, you have to have quality for it to be measurable. As the game has gone downhill since 85, there is very little quality left, and it doesn't look like it will get any better any time soon. I for one believe that cutting off the milk money won't improve that quality even a little bit, and think that doing so would instead be the absolute end of it all.

[Hurin]

I give you that if it makes you sleep well tonight.

Probably not as well as you sleep while your farm team generates gold and loot for you. As intended and designed, of course.

[Hurin]

Everyone that can do this, and is willing to do this, is already doing this.

I know for a fact that this is not true.

If, in a world where everyone was able and wanted to do this, then everyone would be totally okay with it happening, wouldn't they? In addition to that, if everyone were doing this there would be absolutely no threat of ruining the game's quality or economy or whatever.

Do we really think the servers could take every player running 6-12-24 clients each? To say nothing of the more existential question of what a bizarre and sorta dystopian game this would be if everyone were box/farmers.

If I am lucky enough to loot a low level stat tome from somewhere, and I post it in trade or on the AH, I can earn enough gold from a boxer to pay for my hobbit hole for a few years.

There is a leap here in assuming that the person buying it is a boxer. Though boxing is a factor in inflation, market forces still influence prices and non-boxers are still also buyers on the AH, of course.

But, inflation being the devaluation of a currency due to its overabundance or rapid infusion of it into an economy, it's hard to argue that several raids of box/farmers generating gold at 800g/hour for hours on end per day doesn't have some effect on inflation/prices.

You might get a higher price for things right now as a seller. But without inflation, the things you buy would be cheaper. So. . . I'm just not sure what your point is here.

[watevaplz]

Probably not as well as you sleep while your farm team generates gold and loot for you. As intended and designed, of course.

I'm asleep? Is this base on "Hypothetical Future" of me going to sleep which the game logs me off due to afk timer period. Sure, why not? Bling bling 50g per minute? LOL

[watevaplz]

But, inflation being the devaluation of a currency due to its overabundance or rapid infusion of it into an economy, it's hard to argue that several raids of box/farmers generating gold at 800g/hour for hours on end per day doesn't have some effect on inflation/prices.

How you get 800g per hour? LOL The current farm provides 120-150g per hour, or are you specifiying this to a botter which have 6 account to create such a flow of gold. Are you insinuating that high valued items that are randomly rolled individually drops consecutively? "Hypothetical Future" drops of lootboxes, tomes, keys. Right?

What is generally stopping the economy from inflation? When there were 80 - 120+ in these farms? Are you still stuck on the notion that 50% of them are multiboxers?

[Hurin]

I'm asleep? Is this base on "Hypothetical Future" of me going to sleep which the game logs me off due to afk timer period. Sure, why not? Bling bling 50g per minute? LOL

I'm beginning to suspect more and more that you don't know what "hypothetical" means. Which is a shame because you use it (wrongly) in almost every post.

You said openly that you set up your farm before you go to sleep. What's the idle time-out? 20-30 minutes? If you're at endgame, as already demonstrated you can make at least 7g per minute with a fellowship. That is, if you know what you're doing.

So that's probably 140-350g while you sleep. Clearly intended gameplay.

[Hurin]

How you get 800g per hour? LOL The current farm provides 120-150g per hour, or are you specifiying this to a botter which have 6 account to create such a flow of gold. Are you insinuating that high valued items that are randomly rolled individually drops consecutively? "Hypothetical Future" drops of lootboxes, tomes, keys. Right?

What is generally stopping the economy from inflation? When there were 80 - 120+ in these farms? Are you still stuck on the notion that 50% of them are multiboxers?

Kindly pay attention.

Also, that last sentence or two is nonsense. Even you know I never said that the current population is 50% multiboxers. You're embarrassing yourself.

[watevaplz]

Kindly pay attention.

Wow so it was directed to multiboxers that is causing the inflation (WOW) amazing so 100+ players that were farming these areas 50% of them are multiboxers right? Congrats yet another hyperbole.

Do you understand that not only multiboxers are farming these areas? (in accordance with the last 2 sentences)

[Hurin]

Wow so it was directed to multiboxers that is causing the inflation (WOW) amazing so 100+ players that were farming these areas 50% of them are multiboxers right? Congrats yet another hyperbole.

So, you're not even trying to make sense anymore? Wait, were you ever trying?

I'll repeat (because you seem to have missed it): "Also, that last sentence or two is nonsense. Even you know I never said that the current population is 50% multiboxers. You're embarrassing yourself."

[watevaplz]

So, you're not even trying to make sense anymore? Wait, were you ever trying?

I'll repeat (because you seem to have missed it): "Also, that last sentence or two is nonsense. Even you know I never said that the current population is 50% multiboxers. You're embarrassing yourself."

NOT ONLY MULTIBOXERS ARE IN THE CURRENT FARMS. THERE ARE MANY OR ARE YOU MISSING OUT ON THE NEW AREA AND LFF talking ABOUT CURRENT "FARMS". GET WITH THE PROGRAM WHEN THEY SAY "REP FARM".

[Hurin]

So, anyways, shouldn't you be getting to bed while your clients make you 140-350g while you sleep? Because, that's playing the game as designed and intended. Amiright?

I hope you're making at least 140g. Otherwise, you're not even pulling off "cheating" very well.

[Hurin]

NOT ONLY MULTIBOXERS ARE IN THE CURRENT FARMS. THERE ARE MANY OR ARE YOU MISSING OUT ON THE NEW AREA AND LFF talking ABOUT CURRENT "FARMS". GET WITH THE PROGRAM WHEN THEY SAY "REP FARM".

You'e the only one talking about rep farms. I'm talking about the gold supply. As were you until you bizarrely switched the topic.

[watevaplz]

So, anyways, shouldn't you be getting to bed while your clients make you 140-350g while you sleep? Because, that's playing the game as designed and intended. Amiright?

I hope you're making at least 140g. Otherwise, you're not even pulling off "cheating" very well.

350g an exaggeration again. sigh can you stop with your hyperbowl.

[watevaplz]

You'e the only one talking about rep farms. I'm talking about the gold supply. As were you until you bizarrely switched the topic.

I'm not even a "hypothetically hyperbole running" a 12-24 army LMs that can create that much supply of gold.

I'm running a 6 man group in the current rep farm which has 120-150g per hour. So are 100+ players who were/are farming these areas as we speak. How groups of multibox managed to destroy that "hypothetical" market of yours is beyond me. That's the topic I'm into.

[Tsch]

Wat, the rule you need to watch out for is the one that requires a player to respond to a GM. That is the one that basically makes it a violation to go afk while your character is logged in, regardless of whether it is pressing skills or has a pet on aggressive mode. If a GM sends your character a /tell, you need to respond. If you fail to respond, they will blank your screen and pop up a dialog box with a countdown timer and a button. If you fail to click the button before the timer reaches zero, you will be locked out of game for a period of time and get a nice e-mail that mentions an "unattended combat macro test". The only word in that phrase that matters is "unattended".

Hurin, the most truthful part of your crusade is the word "they" when referring to SSG. "They" can decide to change the rules. "They" can decide what is or is not an exploit. "They" can determine what is and is not cheating. "They" have the metrics that point to what is and is not contributing to lag. "They", not you, and not your sidekicks.

With respect to making such determinations, only the words and actions of SSG have any meaning. You, just like the rest of us, are irrelevant.

Finally, with respect to your OP, any group of friends who access the game together through a common IP (whether private LAN party, free wifi, public library, Internet café, college dorm) and fellow/raid together for farming purposes will be at risk of a ban if they are not VIP. There is no sure way for SSG to determine whether they are looking at one human or twelve humans on the other side of the screen. The change that you propose, I believe, will cause more harm than it prevents.

This thread is alike a traffic accident. I really need to just stay away. :/

[watevaplz]

Wat, the rule you need to watch out for is the one that requires a player to respond to a GM. That is the one that basically makes it a violation to go afk while your character is logged in, regardless of whether it is pressing skills or has a pet on aggressive mode. If a GM sends your character a /tell, you need to respond. If you fail to respond, they will blank your screen and pop up a dialog box with a countdown timer and a button. If you fail to click the button before the timer reaches zero, you will be locked out of game for a period of time and get a nice e-mail that mentions an "unattended combat macro test". The only word in that phrase that matters is "unattended".

Someone got a 7-day ban from it, I only assume that he got caught twice to get the ban. It is posted in here, didn't know they just kick you off in game for "first offense"? It happened to me twice. I did respond to a gm He said hello, I said I don't owe you any gold go away.

Next one will be no I'm not interested in joining a cult. See what kind of response I get. hahaha

[Hurin]

I'm not even a "hypothetically hyperbole running" a 12-24 army LMs that can create that much supply of gold.

I'm running a 6 man group in the current rep farm which has 120-150g per hour. So are 100+ players who were/are farming these areas as we speak. How groups of multibox managed to destroy that "hypothetical" market of yours is beyond me. That's the topic I'm into.

Honestly I can't make heads or tales out of what you're saying now. Before you randomly brought up the current rep farm, we were talking about gold farming via raids and their affect on the gold supply in-game, and thus, inflation.

Though it's pretty ###### to bring all six of your clients into an endgame/current rep farm area that has already been hurting performance-wise due to local overpopulation.

Oh but wait, you were just telling us how you're not affecting server performance because the servers are all segmented. Meanwhile, you wander your six-person-wide footprint directly into the places having trouble.

Bravo.

Your ability to contradict yourself and put your foot in your mouth without realizing it is always entertaining.

--H

[watevaplz]

Honestly I can't make heads or tales out of what you're saying now.

Though it's pretty ###### to bring all six of your clients into an endgame/current rep farm area that has already been hurting performance-wise due to local overpopulation.

Oh but wait, you were just telling us how you're not affecting server performance because the servers are all segmented. Meanwhile, you wander your six-person-wide footprint directly into the places having trouble.

Bravo.

Your ability to contradict yourself and put your foot in your mouth without realizing it is always entertaining.

--H

Obviously it is hurting the performance of the server so bad that it doesn't lag since they "fixed" the problem. I'm not having any lag issues nor anyone in this group that is currently killing mobs, that is weird. Tell us quickly are you operating SSG's server, you seem to "hypothetically" come up with this performance issues. We already had this discussion that you don't work for SSG how you know this?

I'm not contradicting myself. You however love to make up stuff that you are obviously clueless about.