Boxing + Farming Should Require Multiple *Subscriptions*

[Hurin]

Obviously it is hurting the performance of the server so bad that it doesn't lag since they "fixed" the problem. I'm not having any lag issues nor anyone in this group that is currently killing mobs, that is weird. Tell us quickly are you operating SSG's server, you seem to "hypothetically" come up with this performance issues. We already had this discussion that you don't work for SSG how you know this?

I'm not contradicting yourself. You however love to make up stuff that you are obviously clueless about.

And of course you weren't there with your six-client-wide footprint while it was having problems. Of course!

[watevaplz]

And of course you weren't there with your six-client-wide footprint while it was having problems. Of course!

I was there. But they fix so I been there ever since and no complaints here. Good job SSG.

But you didn't answer my question. Do you work for SSG? How you know the server i'm currently on have lag problems? You just insinuated that the region is having technical problems that I don't know about and not experiencing.

We been in this discussion before. You don't represent SSG/TURBINE nor any part of it. So please even if it is another "HYPERBOLE" of yours quit it.

[Hurin]

I was there.

So there you go. When every bit of performance counted, there you were, taking up six helpings of it.

But you didn't answer my question. Do you work for SSG?

I'm not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions to which the answer is already known. Nor is the answer relevant to the fact that you were waltzing around a part of the server while it was indeed suffering massive performance issues with your six-client-wide footprint. That sucks.

I don't need to work for SSG to tell you that. Common decency tells you that.

[watevaplz]

So there you go. When every bit of performance counted, there you were, taking up six helpings of it.


I'm not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions to which the answer is already known. Nor is the answer relevant to the fact that you were waltzing around a part of the server suffering massive performance issues with your six-client-wide footprint. That sucks.

IF you were using critical thinking or any logic, why is the server (The Waste) is currently not lagging if my characters are out there farming? Was I the cause on the previous lag and now I'm not? It is a perfect time to show off that "Schooling" of yours. Have some integrity and answer the questions.

Also, stop pretending to be SSG. To make up stuff that the server is lagging because I'm there Is not DECENCY at all.

[Jurny]

Except combat multiboxing has been going on since alpha with full knowledge and understanding by the devs both then and now, including how they do it. Turbine allowed it, even modified their launcher to accommodate it. SSG allows it.

I wasn't here for alpha so I can't really say whether is was going on or not, but going by your join date neither were you. But in any case even if it was, it was a test server not live! It wasn't going on in beta that's for sure.
You obviously missed Hurin's post where it says otherwise, might want to read the TOS/EULA again. I highly doubt when Turbine changed the launcher to allow people to have multiple launchers open at the same time...(which by the way, happened many years after the game went live) was in any way them saying it was ok for people to multibox. If they were ok with it from day 1 as you sort of suggest they were, then why wasn't the launcher set to allow mutilple accounts being logged on at the same time then? I can't think of 1 good reason any game would openly welcome multiboxers. Especially this 1. They ruin every game they go on, including this 1.

[Hurin]

IF you were using critical thinking or any logic, why is the server (The Waste) is currently not lagging if my characters are out there farming? Was I the cause on the previous lag and now I'm not? It is a perfect time to show off that "Schooling" of yours. Have some integrity and answer the questions.

Yes, indeed. . . let's use logic and "schooling." Let's begin by looking at your state of knowledge at the time you had your six characters walking through a region suffering massive performance problems.

You are looking at it in hindsight. Yet you admitted you were there before the fix and therefore before anyone knew the cause (but it was reasonable to assume that the fewer people crowding in the area, the less bad performance would be). Yet, there you were. All six of "you."

Heck, I wouldn't even log in my wife's account alongside mine on patch day or immediately thereafter if there were performance issues in the region I was in. But, that's me. And you're you. And you gotta get yours, amirght?

[watevaplz]

Yes, indeed. . . let's use logic and schooling. Let's being by looking at your state of knowledge at the time you had your six characters walking through a region suffering massive performance problems.

You are looking at it in hindsight. Yet you admitted you were there before the fix and therefore before anyone knew the cause (but it was reasonable to assume that the fewer people crowding in the area, the less bad it would be). Yet, there you were.

Heck, I wouldn't even log in my wife's account alongside mine on patch day or immediately thereafter if there were performance issues in the region I was in. But, that's me. And you're you. And you gotta get yours, amirght?

Wait so me logging in 6 accounts caused the server to lag prior to their fix... and now there is no lag and i'm logged in.... then call it a hindsight. Are you insinuating the fix was to address my 6 accounts that logged in?

Some of us are gifted with the process of elimination and part of it is actually using logic. It is painful to even address this, if the person in question clearly lacks this department. Sorry I can't continue anymore since you might just call it "hindsight". MINDBLOWN

[Nosdracir]

Ran into a farm team last night in Munudh Cadlus in Eregion when I took my 82 LM there to kill the last 50 Dunlendings for a deed. It was 6 LMs, level 57, with Boggies set to aggressive. They were just on /follow since the Boggies and the leader did all the fighting. They were all equipped with skirmish camp items in the mid-20s to mid-30s range except for the leader, who had a number of rewards from the Eregion epic quests and the beginner LIs with only 1 relic each. They would make a pass around the place killing everything, then stand in one spot awaiting the respawn. I went in and ran around blasting everything to get my 50 Dunlendings and after I made a couple of passes they cleared out

When I first approached Munudh Cadlus i got a Reduced Awareness message and noticed a little bit of movement lag. When they left, it ended.

The way the group was behaving they were within the ToS. The movement followed no pattern, but ran from group to group slaughtering them with focused Boggie-fire plus one LM spamming Wizards Fire. When they stopped, they all jammed up on the leader, which is what happens when five are /following one. When I started killing mobs they moved to avoid me.

Looking back at the original post here, this group would not qualify for the OP's penalty because:

- They are just using /follow and aggressive pets rather than any software outside the game.
- They aren't standing in one spot but are moving in varying patterns through a limited area and actively avoid another character in the area.

Despite that, they caused a noticeable increase in lag for me. Not a problem for me at all, but detectable. I imagine that if this had been a 24 man raid then the lag would have become annoying.

I think the OP's suggestion, if strongly enforced, would only result in behavior shifting to stay within the ToS. Word would get around quickly. We'd see far less AFK farming, but still be impacted by active player farming.

[watevaplz]

When I first approached Munudh Cadlus i got a Reduced Awareness message and noticed a little bit of movement lag. When they left, it ended.

If it is regard with reduced awareness happens everywhere especially in South Bree. With the same acknowledgement should SSG start charging F2p because you are getting it especially in that area? Unless of course there are Multi-boxers farming South Bree. Clearly farming it.

I'm surprised that 3 characters caused the reduced awareness. Are you sure?

[Hurin]

Wait so me logging in 6 accounts caused the server to lag prior to their fix...

Nope. But, at that time, you didn't know that your six clients weren't contributing to the lag. And it was reasonable to wonder if they might be. Yet, there you were! All six of you. Which, of course, couldn't have helped.

and now there is no lag and i'm logged in.... then call it a hindsight. Are you insinuating the fix was to address my 6 accounts that logged in?

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm stating clearly that it's sucky to go to a lag-ridden area on patch day with six clients while the server is melting down around everyone. You are one person. And at a time when the server is obviously struggling badly, you're insisting on appearing to that struggling server as six.

Some of us are gifted with the process of elimination and part of it is actually using logic.

Some of us can see that you're hung up on whether you caused the lag. Whereas I'm pointing out your limited state of knowledge at the time the server was actually in crisis. You, on the other hand, are applying today's state of knowledge retroactively to justify prior actions (which ain't "logical.").

[Silverangel]

Nyour limited state of knowledge

*holds up mirror*

I can't believe this thread has 5-10 pages responding to fallacies and false suppositions. I'm running two accounts at once on two PCs and two keyboards with no special software, just fast fingers, so now what are you going to do. And how do you know this isn't another family member? And sometimes I sub on the second account, sometimes I don't. Even if this were reasonably enforceable with clear rules, which it probably isn't, it has no more impact on the server than two people on my network playing LotRO.

[Nosdracir]

If it is regard with reduced awareness happens everywhere especially in South Bree. With the same acknowledgement should SSG start charging F2p because you are getting it especially in that area? Unless of course there are Multi-boxers farming South Bree. Clearly farming it.

I'm surprised that 3 characters caused the reduced awareness. Are you sure?

Six plus me, not 3.

I'm aware that Reduced Awareness can happen at any time and location, even when I can see no other player. I was also getting a little bit of rubber banding even though I was on foot. Both stopped when they left the area.

[watevaplz]

Nope. But, at that time, you didn't know that your six clients weren't contributing to the lag. And it was reasonable to wonder if they might be. Yet, there you were! All six of you. Which, of course, couldn't have helped.


I'm not insinuating anything. I'm stating clearly that it's sucky to go to a lag-ridden area on patch day with six clients while the server is melting down around everyone. You are one person. And at a time when the server is obviously struggling badly, you're insisting on appearing to that struggling server as six.


Some of us can see that you're hung up on whether you caused the lag. Whereas I'm pointing out your limited state of knowledge at the time the server was actually in crisis. You, on the other hand, are applying today's state of knowledge retroactively to justify prior actions (which ain't "logical.").

If you had any process of elimination you would of said that the 6 accounts logged in "definitely" not the caused of the lag. If this is relatively true then The Waste is lagging right now but that is not the case nor has been for the past few days. I'm certain however you will just call it "Hindsight". LOL LOL

Sorry if your excuse on all relative timeline is "HINDSIGHT" then you are right in your "HYPOTHETICAL FUTURE (given 10 years is not enough) that in a "HYPERBOLE" situation it can happen. There is no question in my mind that I can't reason with you.

[Hurin]

The way the group was behaving they were within the ToS. The movement followed no pattern, but ran from group to group slaughtering them with focused Boggie-fire plus one LM spamming Wizards Fire. When they stopped, they all jammed up on the leader, which is what happens when five are /following one. When I started killing mobs they moved to avoid me.

Actually, this is how it will appear even when someone is using the 3rd party software. Even with that software, you still use in-game /follow. And, for the most part, the others will stay on follow. The key is that the /follow command (and many others) when necessary to be given, are often given simultaneously. So, if the group went off follow for whatever reason, and began to spread out. . . and then all of a sudden, all of the five followers suddenly converged at once on the leader, that would be evidence of the use of 3rd party software. Not that SSG currently cares.

It's the difference between

• clicking on client 2 window
• hitting key bound to select fellow 1
• hitting key bound to follow
• clicking on client 3 window
• hitting key bound to select fellow 1
• hitting key bound to follow
• clicking on client 4 window
• hitting key bound to select fellow 1
• hitting key bound to follow
• clicking on client 5 window
• hitting key bound to select fellow 1
• hitting key bound to follow
• clicking on client 6 window
• hitting key bound to select fellow 1
• hitting key bound to follow

And. . .

• Within the software, pressing "Alt-F" and seeing all your fellowship/raid members automatically select the leader and begin following.

SSG doesn't currently care that people are using the latter software. But since it makes all the drudgery of running multiple clients infinitely easier, and thus boxing/farming much more attractive, perhaps they should.

--H

[watevaplz]

Six plus me, not 3.

I'm aware that Reduced Awareness can happen at any time and location, even when I can see no other player. I was also getting a little bit of rubber banding even though I was on foot. Both stopped when they left the area.

Yeah I'm surprised myself maybe they didn't allocate that much "Hyperbole SSG's resources" in it or maybe you have a shadow imprint from a populated region then you went to that area.

[Hurin]

If you had any process of elimination you would of said that the 6 accounts logged in "definitely" not the caused of the lag. If this is relatively true then The Waste is lagging right now but that is not the case nor has been for the past few days. I'm certain however you will just call it "Hindsight". LOL LOL

Sorry if your excuse on all relative timeline is "HINDSIGHT" then you are right in your "HYPOTHETICAL FUTURE (given 10 years is not enough) that in a "HYPERBOLE" situation it can happen. There is no question in my mind that I can't reason with you.

And we're back. . .



You can simultaneously know now that you weren't, on your own, the cause of the lag (nor has anyone alleged that) and yet recognize that you had no business taking six clients into a lagfest region on launch day as the severs melted down. Especially given your state of knowledge about the causes of the lag at the time.

Anyone who understands logic, chronological states of knowledge, and critical thinking can see that it's not me who is the problem here where "reason" is concerned.

I begin to suspect that you're playing dumb because --as with so much else in this thread-- when you realize your actions aren't exactly laudatory, you sorta spaz out.

[Hurin]

Question:

If it's so laudatory, supported, and endorsed, why are there no threads on these forums helping people get set up with the aforementioned 3rd party software that facilitates painless multiboxing/farming?

Ten years. . . not one thread with more than an off-hand reference to it in passing.

Odd. That.

--H

[watevaplz]

And we're back. . .



You can simultaneously know now that you weren't, on your own, the cause of the lag (nor has anyone alleged that) and yet recognize that you had no business taking six clients into a lagfest region on launch day as the severs melted down. Especially given your state of knowledge about the causes of the lag at the time.

Anyone who understands logic, chronological states of knowledge, and critical thinking can see that it's not me who is the problem here where "reason" is concerned.

I begin to suspect that you're playing dumb because --as with so much else in this thread-- when you realize your actions aren't exactly laudatory, you sorta spaz out.

I have no business to be taking my 6 accounts in new areas. You are not SSG we already been passed this. Stop pretending you are an SSG employee.

What i'm stating is that if there is lag that is going on it is definitely not me or else THE SERVER right now should be lagging? Ok do you get it MR. "SSG". That was your BASE HYPOTHETICAL EXCUSE that the multibox are lagging the servers.

Quit pretending you are SSG you are NOT. They are not your sidekicks either.

[Hurin]

*holds up mirror*

I can't believe this thread has 5-10 pages responding to fallacies and false suppositions. I'm running two accounts at once on two PCs and two keyboards with no special software, just fast fingers, so now what are you going to do. And how do you know this isn't another family member? And sometimes I sub on the second account, sometimes I don't. Even if this were reasonably enforceable with clear rules, which it probably isn't, it has no more impact on the server than two people on my network playing LotRO.

Nobody is even talking about your situation nor suggested that your usage profile fits any aspect of what is currently being discussed. The very first post pretty much rules you out entirely. So I'm not even sure why you're here.

[Hurin]

What i'm stating is that if there is lag that is going on it is definitely not me or else THE SERVER right now should be lagging? Ok do you get it MR. "SSG". That was your BASE HYPOTHETICAL EXCUSE that the multibox are lagging the servers.

So. . . that's "logic" to you?

OMG.

Bye.

[watevaplz]

So. . . that's "logic" to you?

OMG.

Bye.

Yes you clearly stated that the multibox are the caused of the lag. Did you not?

Bye Mr. "SSG".

[Hurin]

Yes you clearly stated that the multibox are the caused of the lag. Did you not?

Nope. Didn't.

I did say it takes a certain special type of person to waltz on into a suffering region on a melting server with six clients and see absolutely nothing wrong with that though.

Just how many single-person fellowships and raids do you think an already red-lining server should be asked to handle?

Why do I get the feeling the answer in your case will be: "I don't care so long as I get mine (times six!)."

Stay classy!

--H

[Beaniemooch]

I will ask you, since the other champion of multiboxers seems unwilling to answer:

1) Do you honestly think SSG wants or expects you to run a little army?
2) Do you think the game would be better or worse if everyone else ran 12 accounts simultaneously?
3) What benefit does allowing multiboxing add to the quality of the game?

1) I honestly think SSG doesn't mind. I think they expect people to play the way they enjoy. Some like solo play, some like large groups/raids, some like boxing, some like moors, etc etc etc.
2) I think the likelihood of everyone else running 12 accounts simultaneously is never going to happen. I think if it did the game would adapt, however I have a much better chance of winning the lotto and I don't buy tickets.
3) Allowing multiboxing reaches an audience that would most likely not play otherwise. It's a kind of play they enjoy, something that gives them pleasure, which is the ultimate purpose of the game. They spend enough to make it worthwhile (I've been known to box 3 lifer accts simultaneously with 3 VIP accts I also had - now premium). Boxing makes it easier to do deeds, go through harder areas without relying on other people. I like to raid and enjoy group play up through T2C, but I'm also an introvert who at times likes to play quietly without engaging others.

If you want to only allow types of play that *I* think adds to the quality of the game, we can immediately do away with festivals of all kinds, role play, music, housing, any kind of cosmetics or decorations, big battles and the entire trait tree system. However, because I don't think only of myself and I realize people enjoy things I don't, I keep my grumbling to a minimum (except big battles, they really stink) and get along with others. Anti-boxers might try that.

[watevaplz]

Nope. Didn't.

I did say it takes a certain special type of person to waltz on into a suffering region on a melting server with six clients and see absolutely nothing wrong with that though.

Just how many single-person fellowships and raids do you think an already red-lining server should be asked to handle?

Why do I get the feeling the answer in your case will be: "I don't care so long as I get mine (times six!)."

Stay classy!

--H

But you are asking me to stop going to a specific region that YOU don't have authority to do so. MR "SSG".

Because you think that my 6 players 5 FTP 1 VIP is contributing to said lag. But right now there is no lag. I already said it is highly unlikely that I am causing the lag but here you are stating that I'm causing the lag where you don't have access to any information regarding the server i'm in. MR "SSG".

Now you are asking when will it break? I don't know this information, maybe you can point out the stress stresshold of the server. MR. "SSG".

There are no rules regarding items acquisition. MR "SSG". Yes it is mine, MR "SSG".

Let's get out of this conformity that multiboxer, item acquisition is illegal. Mr. "SSG" you obviously didn't write the TOS, EULA. MR "SSG".

Stop pretending to be SSG. I think that is part of the forum rules right? MR. "SSG" is you by the way not the real boss OK?

[Hurin]

3) Allowing multiboxing reaches an audience that would most likely not play otherwise. It's a kind of play they enjoy, something that gives them pleasure, which is the ultimate purpose of the game. They spend enough to make it worthwhile (I've been known to box 3 lifer accts simultaneously with 3 VIP accts I also had - now premium). Boxing makes it easier to do deeds, go through harder areas without relying on other people. I like to raid and enjoy group play up through T2C, but I'm also an introvert who at times likes to play quietly without engaging others.

The original post isn't really talking about that type of boxer, though, is it?

If you want to only allow types of play that *I* think adds to the quality of the game, we can immediately do away with festivals of all kinds, role play, music, housing, any kind of cosmetics or decorations, big battles and the entire trait tree system. However, because I don't think only of myself and I realize people enjoy things I don't, I keep my grumbling to a minimum (except big battles, they really stink) and get along with others. Anti-boxers might try that.

I appreciate the live and let live sentiment. But of course the original point of this thread isn't really about people "enjoying the game differently". . . it's about people not enjoying or playing the game at all. They're watching Netflix (or sleeping) while their twelve LM pets occupy an area and farm hundreds of gold per hour. I'm not even sure that qualifies as a "type of play."

--H