Cordovan, please update the Official Roleplaying rules and policy thread!

[Erennor]

Here is an updated version of the rp policy forum thread (see further below). Ready to use and save up your limited time these days.

• Turbine has been replaced with Standing Stone Games
• The Estel server has been removed
• The Advice channel has been removed
• The World channel has been added as another OOC source
• A broken link replaced with one that works
• Changed the order of one or two small parts for a more natural flow while reading, or one that seems to better follow the next part
• Two transparent images (one of LotRO, and one of the company behind the game) have been added merely for a finer and more professional presentation

Other than that, there is much less repetition, (that the content of the original forum thread has) and a more visually structured presentation.

There is more that could be edited, for example to make one or two points sound/seem less strict, but I thought to not change anything else for now.




______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______

Standing Stone Games (SSG), provides The Lord of the Rings Online™ with Official Role-playing Supported servers giving our players the opportunity to be deeply immersed within the lore and world of Middle-earth. These servers have additional naming and chat rules to deliver an enjoyable experience not only for role-players, but also for players that would appreciate a more Middle-earth immersive environment.

The following worlds are Roleplay-Supported:

Laurelin [EN-RP]
English-speaking server

Belegaer [DE-RP]
German-speaking server

In addition, the Landroval server is Roleplay-Encouraged. This world is not supported by the roleplaying ruleset, but encourages role playing in a friendly environment. The name is: Landroval [EN-RE]

Roleplaying violations will be enforced only on the Official Roleplay-Supported worlds of Laurelin and Belegaer. Any roleplaying violations reported on other worlds will not be enforced, and the ticket closed without response. Abuse of the reporting system, such as repeatedly submitting incorrect tickets, may result in action against your account, up to and including an account suspension.

Standing Stone Games Official Roleplaying Rules and Policy
This policy is in addition to the Code of Conduct which applies to all servers

1. Roleplaying Name Policy
In order to facilitate a more Middle-earth immersive environment, all character names on the Official Roleplay-Supported servers are required to be within the spirit of the world of Middle-earth; inspired by and reflecting the lore of the setting and its people. Names that are homonyms or similar to characters from The Lord of the Rings may not be used, as stated in the naming policy.

Characters names:

• May not reflect any subject matter that did not exist within The Lord of the Rings lore.
  Examples: Hamburger, Templar, Roman, Computer, Car, Mayan, Peanutbutter, Blitzkreig, Bicycle, Tomatosoup.
  
  
• May not be modern non-fantasy names, nick-names, or slang.
  Examples: Bustacap, Bionicman, Robotrampage, Roflcopter, Beefhead, Lololmao, Whyushootme, Foshizzle.
  
  
• Should follow the naming conventions provided by the naming guidelines at the Character Creation screen.

We suggest looking towards names within Fantasy and Medieval settings for inspiration.
If you are unable to find an appropriate role playing name when creating a character, we suggest using the “Random Name” function.


If a character’s name does not meet these guidelines, you may report them by going to the Main Menu, then Help, then New Ticket. SSG will then investigate and determine if the name violates the Naming Policy or Roleplaying Name Policy. If the name violates the naming policy, SSG will change their name to a roleplay-appropriate option.

Please note: If a Character Rename is purchased from the LotRO Store on Belegaer, or Laurelin, the new character name must abide by the Roleplay Naming Policy. If the character name does not abide by the Roleplay Policy, the name may be changed, and no refund will be provided for the Character Rename purchase.

2. Roleplaying Chat-Channels Restrictions
In order to foster a respectful and welcoming environment for role playing, chat restrictions apply to certain chat channels within the Roleplaying Supported servers. Some chat channels are designated “in character,” while others are “out of character.” “In character” means that all chat must abide by the lore of The Lord of the Rings. “Out of character” means that topics outside of the lore of The Lord of the Rings may be discussed.

Examples of in character chat:

“The Rangers say that foul Orcs may be found north of Trestlebridge.”
“I believe that Michel Delving has the greatest pies ever made in the shire! I’ve taken some with me – does anyone want some? Oh, they’ve all been eaten.”
“I am looking for five stout-hearted adventurers to join me in ending Sambrog’s presence within The Great Barrow.”

Examples of out of character chat:

“I really wish that Christmas break was longer than a week. I still have shopping to do.”
“We had hotdogs last night after watching the local sports team.”
“In West Philadelphia born and raised.”


The following channels must be In Character:

• Say (the area around you).
• Regional.
• Shout / Yell.
• Emote. Emotes, done by typing “/emote” (without the quotes).

In addition, Player Biographies must be In Character.

The following channels have no restrictions and can be Out of Character:

• OOC (Out Of Character).
• World.

These channels should be where all normal out of character discussion takes place, including advice questions.


The following channels may be In Character, or Out of Character:

• Kinship. While kinships may choose to be in character, SSG will not take action on out of character chat in kinship chat channels.
• Player-created chat channels.
• Private Chat / Tells.
• Fellowship / Raid.
• In-Game Mail.
• Notations or names put on Crafted Items / Legendary Items by the crafter or owner.
• LFF Notes (through the Social panel).

If players see another player using out of character chat in an in character chat channel, players may politely ask them to talk in an appropriate chat channel, such as OOC or Advice. Occasional mistypes or mistakes should not be reported. But if a player is repeatedly talking out of character within in character chat channels, and refuses to move their chat to an appropriate chat channel, you may report them by going to the Main Menu, then Help, then New Ticket.


3. Roleplaying Harassment Policy
To encourage a friendly and cooperative environment within the Roleplay-supported servers, players should be tolerant of the roleplaying choices of others. Since roleplaying may mean different levels of involvement and immersion to different players, you may not disparage, harass, abuse, or threaten players for their choice of roleplaying. You may not purposefully attempt to grief role play. You may not use role playing as a reason for disparaging, harassing, abusing, or threatening other players for any reason.

If a player is harassing, disparaging, abusing, or threatening other players because they are role playing, please report them by going to the Main Menu, then Help, then New Ticket. SSG will then investigate the situation and take appropriate action.

Repeated violations of the Role Playing Policy may result in:

• Warnings.
• A block from the official Roleplay-Supported worlds.
• Account suspension.
• Permanent account suspension for repeated or extremely offensive violations.

If you witness a violation of the Roleplaying Policy on a Roleplay-Supported world, please report it using the help system.

To do so:

1. Press “Escape” to open the Main Menu.
2. Click on the Help button.
3. Select “New Ticket” at the bottom of the help window.
4. Submit a ticket under the correct ticket type.

For Naming Violations, choose Name Violation as a ticket type. For inappropriate chat or harassment, choose Harassment as a ticket type.

Some players may be unable to submit tickets due to account status limitations. In-Game Customer Service is available only to VIP, and Premium players who have purchased points within the last 45 days. Also, please note that SSG In-Game Support, and any discussions with Game Masters or Senior Game Masters within The Lord of the Rings Online, will always be Out of Character.

[Mirhaen]

@Erennor would you please provide extended explanation on the subject of Emotes? I think I didn't understand it.

I personally dislike emotes spam, but on another side I am aware that there are deeds connected to the use of emotes, as well as deeds connected to the use of the festival consumables... they ought to be allowed because of it, annoying as they are sometimes.

[Elwenwing]

@Erennor

I would take those as the RP rules!

A very nice job of updating them to a SSG format!

@Mirhaen

Emotes in this regard are not so much about the emotes SSG provides us with, it concerns the /emote channel when it's used for RP purposes! For example:

/e Elwenwing looks at the stranger and shrugs...

/s Are you sure about that?

Depending on RP style it can be used quite a lot!

It is a channel that I personally think should be designated IC as well, as it also affects the direct surroundings of a player on a RP server!

That said the standard emotes provide by SSG are a bit tricky to regard as IC!

When RP-ing it's always nice to add some personal flavour to them I think!

[Vuldarian]

I'm sure that SSG has the talent necessary for writing down a ruleset, let alone adapting an existing one.

The ruleset itself is not the issue here.

We can write up as many rulesets as we want - as long as they don't get enforced by SSG, it's just a waste of effort and good intention. Thus, what this thread do need is for SSG to take a stand on this question. Do you intend to enforce the RP rules, or not?

A couple of months back, there was an incident at a regular RP event at Laurelin with stories, music etc, where a player chose to harrass the participants of the event by banging a cowbell for 45 minutes (at least - I remember it as longer, even). Even though this was reported to the GMs, and would be considered harrassment with or without RP rules being enforced, no action was taken. None at all.
Is this what we need to put up with in the future? That is what I would like to hear SSG give an answer to. Should we expect SSG to take action against such idiocy, or do you just care about what affects your bottom line directly?

[Mirhaen]

@Erennor

I would take those as the RP rules!

A very nice job of updating them to a SSG format!

@Mirhaen

Emotes in this regard are not so much about the emotes SSG provides us with, it concerns the /emote channel when it's used for RP purposes! For example:

/e Elwenwing looks at the stranger and shrugs...

/s Are you sure about that?

Depending on RP style it can be used quite a lot!

It is a channel that I personally think should be designated IC as well, as it also affects the direct surroundings of a player on a RP server!

That said the standard emotes provide by SSG are a bit tricky to regard as IC!

When RP-ing it's always nice to add some personal flavour to them I think!

Thank you for the explanation Yes, I agree.

[Mirhaen]

I'm sure that SSG has the talent necessary for writing down a ruleset, let alone adapting an existing one.

The ruleset itself is not the issue here.

We can write up as many rulesets as we want - as long as they don't get enforced by SSG, it's just a waste of effort and good intention. Thus, what this thread do need is for SSG to take a stand on this question. Do you intend to enforce the RP rules, or not?

A couple of months back, there was an incident at a regular RP event at Laurelin with stories, music etc, where a player chose to harrass the participants of the event by banging a cowbell for 45 minutes (at least - I remember it as longer, even). Even though this was reported to the GMs, and would be considered harrassment with or without RP rules being enforced, no action was taken. None at all.
Is this what we need to put up with in the future? That is what I would like to hear SSG give an answer to. Should we expect SSG to take action against such idiocy, or do you just care about what affects your bottom line directly?

Ohh my, I am so sorry to hear that, truly horrible Maybe GM was absent or busy at that moment, and maybe it was first offense so they only done warning? I sure hope someone reply and hopefully it won't happened again.

[Vuldarian]

Maybe GM was absent or busy at that moment

If that was the case, then how exactly can we expect them to take any action at any time?

maybe it was first offense so they only done warning

Banned or warned, I don't give a fudge. The issue was that he went on and on, and that the GMs did ZIP to make it stop. Nothing.

[Erennor]

I'm sure that SSG has the talent necessary for writing down a ruleset, let alone adapting an existing one.

Indeed, I think we can all be certain that the 'talent' is there. And yet, nothing has been done since last year. The waiting has been long enough by now. One may wonder how much further the wait would be had no such thread started to recall back to the company the promise that was made.

The ruleset itself is not the issue here. We can write up as many rulesets as we want - as long as they don't get enforced by SSG, it's just a waste of effort and good intention. [...]

Not so. Let us say that even if these tickets were completely ignored and not acted upon at all, by merely having the official forum thread about the rp policy visible, that alone has an effect: it shows to all those players, and especially newcomers to the game, and/or returning folk, that are not aware of this matter, (of the recent weak support and appreciation that the RP servers have received from the company), that such rules are in place on this server.

The mere knowledge of that, it creates in the mind of the reader an expectancy: of what to not do on that server. To not harass roleplaying events, to not overtake IC channels for OOC talk, and to simply not use nonsense words for a character name. This further results in more players respecting these simple official directions.

In short, it is not a waste of effort nor good intention. If it was, I think I would feel that it was not worth the bother. In general, one needs to try and see not only the immediate now, and the current situation at hand, but what other effects and impacts may follow after.

I would like to remind you that I can also write an essay on the subject of my closed server. It was equally special to me just as Laurelin is special to you. [...] And I now want Laurelin to be my home and special to me. And I'm getting there!

It was not a matter of writing the essay to show how special the server is to me, but to share on a wider level the kind of enviroment and community the server has to offer, and the many admirable things the players there have been doing over the long years, (and that the official support in the background, allowed all this to continue in peace; unhindered from trouble and mistreatment). It was written to show to fellow LotRO players how this server enriches the overall game experience both for rpers and non rpers. It was written to share with fellow Tolkien enthusiasts and all those that favour a more immersive enviroment, that, to say it plainly, there is this, and that, and that that this server has. And it was done, and went just as was expected very long ago, when the thought of writing that essay was born. So many over the years coming from other worlds have shown their great joy and interest on learning about these things, and even some have said that was it not for Laurelin, they would not have kept up with LotRO. It sparkled and renewed their enthusiasm of merely being into the game. Standing Stone Games would be wise to understand this, and understand it well.

Now, based on your words, 'and now I want Laurelin to be my home and special to me' it seems to me that you may be slowly getting there, learning to 'adapt'. Though this word is too strong for the situation here, as people do not even have to adapt to the rp playstyle and the added immersion - all they have to do is to respect it. Involvement is not required. If it was, then I think we would all understand your position fully, and say no more. But it is not required. It is not something imposed on your ordinary playstyle. It is easy enough to not violate these official principles of the two RP worlds, just like thousands of other fellow LotRO players have done since the game begun back in 2007 and the tale of Laurelin started to shape and unfold over the long years that were to come.

I think as you have started to understand more and more the importance of the what the ruleset entails, the community of the server, its interests and values, its sources of content in-game, in turn makes you less inclined to be negatively predisposed towards it. But it seems you have the willingness to see it. It is different for some others. Some may very well understand all that is said and has been talked in length and in depth many times before and by more than a few, but will not bring themselves to accept it. But that, is not the problem of the server or of the rp policy, but their own.

[...] I think perhaps RP players are going wrong way about it now?

How is it the wrong way? This thread so far is in a much better spirit and has maybe more coherent and detailed posts, than what we had in the previous thread that was started about this a while ago. People have remained silent long enough. It is time to stand up again lest the silence defeats this cause.

I would instead go on with a post with actual problems you guys are experiencing on a daily basis or often enough. [...]

The problems have been posted, again and again. Now, and before. Do you not see them?

The one that stands out the most, and is abused the most from what I hear and read, and also experienced for a while in-game, is the naming. Not the ones that people may be unsure about, not those that may fall in a/the 'grey area'. But the clearly obvious ones of the like: 'Fluffydonkeys', 'Rpdestroyer' and so on.

The post you disliked I think indeed had the purpose of showing how things can get unreasonable and senseless. I don't think poster meant all that was written in a literal sense. [...]

There is not even a hint of something that shows otherwise. And the further confirmation of the literal sense in which it was written, can also come by way of seeing a previous post again on the same matter about Laurelin by the same poster:

Seeing this being dragged out on world regularly, I would like this to be put to rest once and for all, so i would have to say remove the special rules altogether its the only way people will stop arguing and using it against other players for real or imaginary reasons, often perceived only by them. Also i think Gm time could be better spent.

It was a small group of people that created a very big problem, and some of the rules were used as a tool to harass people. I can see clearly how and why relaxing rules was the fastest way to solve that problem. [...]

It is good to remember also this: that the same relaxed version of the naming rules, it was and has been taken advantaged of to purposefully create characters with such words for names, only to show up in the World chat and act in such a way to cause a stir in the community.





[And yes, Mirhaen and Lina, you are right: it is Evernight - not Snowbourn. And the LFF it is still there but turned to global (and thus OOC). You are right. I am starting to forget.

Mirhaen, yes the emote refers to what Elwenwing also said, the, for example:
/me sits by the fire and starts eating thoughtfully.

This is written in say and once submitted appears in grey I believe.

[Mirhaen]

If that was the case, then how exactly can we expect them to take any action at any time?

Well thing is, we can't expect, as the help ain't happening immediately in most cases. For a while we had a lot of trouble with bugs in new instances.... From my own experience, waiting time was never under 45 minutes in the best case scenario. Mind you it was only once that we got help in 45 minutes, all other times we waited at least 1 hour and more. And once we got a message along those lines: I have few more pressing problems to deal with before I am able to come and help you.

Many times, no reply whatsoever, and raid simply disband or redo all.

I don't know the working hours of GMs nor how many of them is online on one server at the same time, nor how many tickets they have to deal with on a daily basis, but at any rate these are the things to be considerate and improved if possible. What we do on our part to help is to choose one person to send one ticket. I am saying this because I have seen pug runs sending more tickets at once in hope to get attention faster, while probably just flooding the system and delaying responses by doing so.

[Vuldarian]

Not so. Let us say that even if these tickets were completely ignored and not acted upon at all, by merely having the official forum thread about the rp policy visible, that alone has an effect: it shows to all those players, and especially newcomers to the game, and/or returning folk, that are not aware of this matter, (of the recent weak support and appreciation that the RP servers have received from the company), that such rules are in place on this server.

I think recent experience clearly shows why you are wrong about this. Problems didn't start when the rules were un-stickied. They started at the server merge.

Well thing is, we can't expect, as the help ain't happening immediately in most cases. For a while we had a lot of trouble with bugs in new instances.... From my own experience, waiting time was never under 45 minutes in the best case scenario.

What the h*ll is it worth, then? If my event is ruined, it doesn't help me that they come to ban the player that did it 4 hours later. The event is still ruined for me, and all the other attendants. I want to be able to run or attend an RP event without being harrassed, just like I prefer to be able to ride my bike safely on the roads, rather than the police arriving a week later to arrest the guy that keeps running me down. And for the record - 90 minutes after the harrasment was reported, there still hadn't been a response. Dunno if there ever was, you'll have to ask the reporting player. That's worth exactly nothing, and is downright discouraging for, say, new players that wants to try to run roleplaying events.

[Mirhaen]

@Errenor I was trying to say that 'the essay' is not a valid argument as most of us can write beautiful things on the same subject. Of course that the RP community contributes to the game and experience, but don't we all? You contribute in one way, someone else in another way, and who is to say who do more or better? That kinda just lead us nowhere in my opinion. That is also why I said that the RP community is maybe going wrong way about it. Come out with hard facts and problems, like Vuldarian. That's the kind of thing that would work better in my opinion.

No indeed, I haven't seen any post, apart from the one i just mentioned, by Vuldarian. I am not counting previous debate because it was all about names... and I think we did come to some agreement. We in fact did agree on everything but grey zone names, and I don't see that changing for so many reasons that I would need a lot of time to write all down and would only repeat myself and some other folk from a previous debate. It is in the range of what is lore to begin with (to which I was trying to hint before in my comments), the use of the rule itself (proved abusive), the importance to fellow players, poor choices we had, etc. A lot involved really to make it easy. If you can live with hundreds of descendants of ancient and rare lineages, and countless heirs to the thrones, than I hope you can live with a grey zone name as well. I am not trying to be harsh or insult anyone , just to explain with one of the examples how things look like to us when someone goes all about lore. In another words it can look ridiculous, sorry to say that. Insisting on one thing but fine with all others... If you put some prefix or suffix but the name still have no meaning whatsoever, it sounds like lore but it's not lore. If it's written in a foreigner language and you don't know that language, it sounds like lore but it's not lore. Etcetera. If I would go all lore, would report half of a server and probably more. Gotta draw line somewhere...

Back to the previous talk, truth is also that I do not have enough time to check every single post. And taking opportunity here also to mention that actually small percent of people does come to the forum and/or follow any other LOTRO info/social platforms. It is quite a problem in my opinion that some important informations are not immediately accessible in the game itself.

[Mirhaen]

What the h*ll is it worth, then? If my event is ruined, it doesn't help me that they come to ban the player that did it 4 hours later. The event is still ruined for me, and all the other attendants. I want to be able to run or attend an RP event without being harrassed, just like I prefer to be able to ride my bike safely on the roads, rather than the police arriving a week later to arrest the guy that keeps running me down. And for the record - 90 minutes after the harrasment was reported, there still hadn't been a response. Dunno if there ever was, you'll have to ask the reporting player. That's worth exactly nothing, and is downright discouraging for, say, new players that wants to try to run roleplaying events.

That's true, it's ruined, and discouraging. I can imagine you dreading on what may come your way at the next event :s

Cordovan please, this must be priority and taken care of.

I propose placing back rules and enforcing them. Can always make note of the sort 'grey zone names still to be decided upon' thing. But that shouldn't stop you taking care of the obvious bad names (Ipawn, Robocop Yourmom and whatnot) and enforcing other rules as well.

[Erennor]

@Erennor I was trying to say that 'the essay' is not a valid argument as most of us can write beautiful things on the same subject.

It naturally comes to my mind to wonder: was it not you that brought up the essay in the first place?

As for it being a valid argument, indeed everyone may do so, but while the subject will be the same (a server), the content will be different. And it will be a major difference. Why? because the other servers do not have the same offerings and to the same degree and depth. That, coupled with the absence of added official rp support (which has been fundamental for the onset of the server and in the shaping and growth of its community) on all the other words (apart from Belegaer), will generate another type of content to write on about those servers.

Furthermore, I do not think that is relevant here, as other servers are not the matter of this thread and the previous one. It is about the official rp support on Laurelin, and Belegaer.

Of course that the RP community contributes to the game and experience, but don't we all? You contribute in one way, someone else in another way, and who is to say who do more or better? That kinda just lead us nowhere in my opinion. [...]

Indeed, everyone contributes, even by merely being in-game (that is apart from those causing trouble). But another difference here is that role players put out their own free time well beyond of what they already put in for the game itself, just like all of us may do (with quests, epic storyline, deeds, and so on). Role players create content, whereas others consume the content of the game. I do not say that role players do not consume, but they also add to the world - they create. They create events, and community events, they create kinships (not ordinary kinships, but ones that are actively involved in playing out stories), they create music, poetry, songs, and more. They create experiences that the game itself cannot reach to that extent and depth.

I feel that I am not emphasizing what is better and who is doing more, but the difference.

[...] the use of the rule itself (proved abusive), [...]

Just as the relaxation of the rules too has been proved abusive: some that purposefully create characters with such names and come up in World chat to make sure they are seen only to attract attention, stir the peace, ignite arguments, and set aflame the chat.

[...]and I think we did come to some agreement. We in fact did agree on everything but grey zone names, [...]

[...]

Cordovan please, this must be priority and taken care of.

I propose placing back rules and enforcing them. Can always make note of the sort 'grey zone names still to be decided upon' thing. But that shouldn't stop you taking care of the obvious bad names (Ipawn, Robocop Yourmom and whatnot) and enforcing other rules as well.

This.

Cordovan, there has been a general consensus, even the players that transferred to Laurelin acknowledged that. That is, no to obvious violations (such as 'Fishslapper', 'Rpdestroyer' and so on), and of course, no to disruption and harassment of role play and events.

As for the RP reserved channels, one has to go out of his/her way to actively and continuously take over them for OOC talk. It is fairly simple and easy to not violate. And, there are more than enough channels for OOC talk: OOC, World, LFF. It is not as if they do not get a choice - they do.

Things have got more complicated that they need to be. All you have to do is to simply act upon obvious naming violations, that is what the vast majority has been asking, protect rp events from harassment, and the two main rp channels especially (say and regional) free from OOC talk.

Prove true to the open official promise that was made, and continue the support.

Does it not mean much to you that so much content, so much more experience to be had by all, both role players, and non-roleplayers, is added to the game world freely out of their own time and dedication, even over many long years (two of the rp community events have been going on every week since 2008/2009)?

Remember that one of the notable strengths of the game lies within the rp scene, and comes from role players. If they are driven out, you will drive out a part of the experience - a strong and influential part of the LotRO community - a part of LotRO's legacy.

Show your support

[Mirhaen]

It naturally comes to my mind to wonder: was it not you that brought up the essay in the first place?

If you meant to ask if I brought up that word, yes I did. Not sure what is confusing here... I could have also said 'your long writing' but I opted to call it an essay. It's just wording.

As for it being a valid argument, indeed everyone may do so, but while the subject will be the same (a server), the content will be different. And it will be a major difference. Why? because the other servers do not have the same offerings and to the same degree and depth. That, coupled with the absence of added official rp support (which has been fundamental for the onset of the server and in the shaping and growth of its community) on all the other words (apart from Belegaer), will generate another type of content to write on about those servers.

You are showing here a great deal of ignorance and again sounding as you think your server and the RP community are above and beyond anything else. And I am trying very hard to explain to you that only thing you will achieve is getting people angry.

(that is apart from those causing trouble)[/SIZE]. But another difference here is that role players put out their own free time well beyond of what they already put in for the game itself, just like all of us may do (with quests, epic storyline, deeds, and so on). Role players create content, whereas others consume the content of the game. I do not say that role players do not consume, but they also add to the world - they create. They create events, and community events, they create kinships (not ordinary kinships, but ones that are actively involved in playing out stories), they create music, poetry, songs, and more. They create experiences that the game itself cannot reach to that extent and depth.

Well you are dead wrong again. Indeed I wonder if we in fact had more content on my old server because the content was for everyone while here the content you create is mainly for RP purposes. Let me tell you that we did have some light role playing, we had music bands, annual fashion show, annual triathlon races, quiz and puzzle events, hide and seek, annual fishing contest, bone fire night, to the professor event, annual dwarf march, etc. just to name a few! Organized by players in their own free time. So your story goes down the drain really. Again, you are belittling. Many will feel insulted by your comments really. I sure know that I am as I did put a lot of time organizing various events.

[Elwenwing]

If you meant to ask if I brought up that word, yes I did. Not sure what is confusing here... I could have also said 'your long writing' but I opted to call it an essay. It's just wording.



You are showing here a great deal of ignorance and again sounding as you think your server and the RP community are above and beyond anything else. And I am trying very hard to explain to you that only thing you will achieve is getting people angry.




Well you are dead wrong again. Indeed I wonder if we in fact had more content on my old server because the content was for everyone while here the content you create is mainly for RP purposes. Let me tell you that we did have some light role playing, we had music bands, annual fashion show, annual triathlon races, quiz and puzzle events, hide and seek, annual fishing contest, bone fire night, to the professor event, annual dwarf march, etc. just to name a few! Organized by players in their own free time. So your story goes down the drain really. Again, you are belittling. Many will feel insulted by your comments really. I sure know that I am as I did put a lot of time organizing various events.

I think the reason Erennor brought up his essay about Laurelin was to try and give a better insight into how things used to be on Laurelin. He is very passionate about that! I honestly don't think he is argueing that RP servers are better than other servers, or certain playstyles are better than other playstyles!

These in fact are discussions I feel we should try to avoid! As there simply is no better or worse way to enjoy this game! We should all agree that everyone has their own playstyle and every player is equally important to the game! In my mind it's always a bit pointless to argue over that!

This is why I wrote earlier that I do not think the discussion about the rules is a roleplayer vs. none roleplayer arguement! I also wonder that perhaps it should be better to rename the rules from: "Official roleplaying rules and policy" to "Official RP server rules and policy"!

The RP rules for the RP servers are simply there to create a more immersive place for every player, regardless of playstyle!

I do think you made a good point that the rules should be more visible ingame as well, Mirhaen! I know that is something people have asked for in the past, and I personally would like it if players would have to agree to the the RP rules when creating a character on a RP server!

Also it would perhaps be good if upon login we would get to see a message in the chatbox that says something like: "Welcome to an official SSG RP server, the rules can be found <here>, please respect these rules!"

You asked for more specific examples of rule violations, Mirhaen, but I think just stating their nature as I have already done should be sufficient!

From the RP events I have visited lately there have been very little where there was not at least one OOC statement from a player in IC channels!

Sadly those OOC comments in IC channels can be avoided very easily so there's really no reason fer them!

[Mirhaen]

I honestly don't think he is argueing that RP servers are better than other servers, or certain playstyles are better than other playstyles!

Yes he does. He said there is a major difference between servers because the other servers do not have the same offerings and to the same degree and depth. Further he said role players create content, whereas others consume the content of the game, they create things in their own time, etc. And all of that is simply not true as I hope I did prove already. Won't continue on that subject if I don't have to, but he should really acknowledge being wrong.

These in fact are discussions I feel we should try to avoid! As there simply is no better or worse way to enjoy this game! We should all agree that everyone has their own playstyle and every player is equally important to the game! In my mind it's always a bit pointless to argue over that!

I am to some degree happy to have such conversation as it seems to me that a lot of people actually have no idea about other servers. You think we are bunch of some sort of savages, came to ruin your civilization. Most of us are not. Most of us have in fact great deal of knowledge about the lore, we read all Tolkien's writings, we had loads of events on our old server, etc. I would really like if you start viewing us differently. You have some trouble makers in your group, and we also have them, as no doubt all sorts came with the merge. The idea is to get rid of them from both groups, or to change their mind and behavior. But we can't really, so to say, ball up together, as long as you speak and think us lesser.

You asked for more specific examples of rule violations, Mirhaen, but I think just stating their nature as I have already done should be sufficient!

Yes because it's about human psychology really. People relate easier to something more specific than to general talk. I sure hope we get at least channels sorted to begin with.

[Elwenwing]

I am to some degree happy to have such conversation as it seems to me that a lot of people actually have no idea about other servers. You think we are bunch of some sort of savages, came to ruin your civilization. Most of us are not. Most of us have in fact great deal of knowledge about the lore, we read all Tolkien's writings, we had loads of events on our old server, etc. I would really like if you start viewing us differently. You have some trouble makers in your group, and we also have them, as no doubt all sorts came with the merge. The idea is to get rid of them from both groups, or to change their mind and behavior. But we can't really, so to say, ball up together, as long as you speak and think us lesser.

Let me assure you then, that there are a lot of people like myself on RP servers who also have characters on non-RP servers! In my case mostly made specifically to visit and take part in player created events hosted on non-RP servers! I do not view anyone from a non RP-server in the way you describe! I view everyone just as player like myself, and acknowledge we all have different preferences when it comes to gameplay! It's great MMO's cater to a wide audience! Also I think many people on RP servers like myself started out on non-RP servers, but at one point decided for their own personal reason to come to a RP server just for the added RP rules! Mainly in an attempt to get a more OOC-free gaming experience, as that's what the RP rules are there for!

Yes because it's about human psychology really. People relate easier to something more specific than to general talk. I sure hope we get at least channels sorted to begin with.

The RP rules do provide us with some examples of what is deemed IC and OOC and what's appropriate fer each channel! What people experience ingame as OOC behaviour in IC channels is very much in line with those examples!

[Mirhaen]

The RP rules do provide us with some examples of what is deemed IC and OOC and what's appropriate fer each channel! What people experience ingame as OOC behaviour in IC channels is very much in line with those examples!

Can relate to it, I've turned off all channels (for now), except LFF, to save my nerves

[GuturYeshe]

Ok, clearly some folks are very passionate about the sticky, so I'll put it back. Just a reminder that our current server tag and policy continues to remain unchanged.

I'm a bit late to the discussion but I just started a week ago or so on Laurelin.
Without enforcement any rules mean absolutely nothing. I am not a proponent of strict rp but the trolls in naming, wc, tells and during events are unbearable.
Unfortunately that means any player with an interest in rp has to permanently ignore whole channels or a lot of characters very day.
Please start to enforce naming rules and monitor world chat without players needing to send one ticket after the other.

[Elwenwing]

Sadly one of the forum moderators has unstickied the official roleplaying guide again a few months ago.

It's sad to see SSG is not really willing to support their own official RP servers, as was done for many years. There has been not a single official action since SSG took over from Turbine to indicate they do have that intention.

If only SSG would update the official roleplay guidelines for their RP servers to an updated SSG format, and make an official statement that they expect players who decide to roll a character on an RP server to adhere to the official RP rules, that would go a long way.

Now you can regularly see discussions in world chat where players claim there aren't even any RP rules that apply to Laurelin, and that players need not even bother with following any RP guidelines.

A lot of this is caused by the fact we only have two EN EU servers, and Evernight is heavily populated, so players just move to the server that they expect has better game performance, with little or no regard for the RP status of that server.

It's sad to see that comes at the cost of the RP server, which many players have made their home just because the RP rules were kept in good standing for so long.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Sadly one of the forum moderators has unstickied the offical roleplaying guide again a few months ago.

It's sad to see SSG is not really willing to support their own official RP servers, as was done for many years. There has been not a single official action since SSG took over from Turbine to indicate they do have that intention.

If only SSG would update the official roleplay guidelines for their RP servers to an updated SSG format, and make an official statement that they expect players who decide to roll a character on an RP server to adhere to the offical RP rules, that would go a long way.

Now you can regularly see discussions in world chat where players claim there aren't even any RP rules that apply to Laurelin, and that players need not even bother with following any RP guidelines.

A lot of this is caused by the fact we only have two EN EU servers, and Evernight is heavily populated, so players just move to the server that they expect has better game performance, with little or no regard for the RP status of that server.

It's sad to see that comes at the cost of the RP server, which many players have made their home just because the RP rules were kept in good standing for so long.

I too wish they would up date this, also I Notice the Role playing rules thread was taken down from sticky notes again recently... after it was put back up there a few years based on feedback here in this tread. I hope that doesn't mean they are ignoring the rules and not wanting to deal with it, like they should.

[Linawillow]

If only SSG would update the official roleplay guidelines for their RP servers to an updated SSG format, and make an official statement that they expect players who decide to roll a character on an RP server to adhere to the official RP rules, that would go a long way.

Pretty much this. It'd be simple, easy and take all about 10 minutes.

Instead, we get the stealth unsticky-approach again. Incredibly disappointing *sighs*

[Aedon]

I came to LOTRO from Ultima Online, where for more than 14 years I ran an RP village. In UO there were no RP servers, just an RP community governed by a common set of Rules of Engagement and basic RP1. We existed alongside those who were PvPers and those just there to play the game and adventure. And through the years we found that if you want to enjoy your RP the best way is to simply play your game as you will, and allow others to do the same. We did not check the names of everyone who approached us, nor did we look down on those who were not role players who would approach us, and join in a conversation. Even when their language was a bit more modern than we used.

I know that Lotro is more lore based than many games, but I find ways to enjoy roleplay without infringing on the play style of others. I can roleplay wiht thise who wish, play music with others and chase down hobbits in the moors on my warg. Yes, report those that deliberately grief you and others, but also leave yourself open to those that see you role playing, and wish to engage you in conversation. It is the way a community continues to grow.

The reality of all MMORPG's is this; No game can survive long if it is too strict in it's rules. Not an RP one or one that seeks to base itself in combat alone. All play styles make up the whole of the experience that is the game. I can interact with ease if someone approaches and has a name I would see as non RP. One of the finest roleplayers I ever had the pleasure to meet was named James Bunny-man. He never broke his character, was a master at interaction and yet had a name that might make many RPers cringe.

Just as we live life alongside people do not see things as we do does not mean those people should be contained within a box or punished because their parents gave them an odd name. Look to each interaction as a chance to introduce others to RP.

[Linawillow]

Aedon, that's nice and all. And I think I can safely say that I have put in a lot of mileage over the years in interacting with and welcoming players with different playstyles on Laurelin. Of course, that's generally a grand thing to do. I want to include both newcomers and veterans and players with varied game interests.

However, I have also been through enough rounds of "can't we all be friends and let everyone play the game their own way" to know that in practice, this usually translates to roleplayers being the ones who have to give way. On servers set up to cater for roleplaying. And that just disappoints me.

I'll reiterate what I said earlier in this thread, the last time the policy was unstickied:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...65#post7743565

"There's a big picture missing from these discussions. Having a RP policy/ruleset was for me never about having a rules-lawyery weapons against others. The policy was a statement of intent from the game company that "on this server, we'll support roleplaying, and this is the way we will do it". This set the expectations that the community and the players could shape their gameplay around. If things got bad either way, Turbine/SSG could step in and regulate if necessary, but for the most part this wasn't necessary because you guys were clear on how things should work.

It is this clarity that SSG has managed to muddle up, to the extent that the odds are now firmly stacked against roleplayers on a server originally dedicated to their needs. Roleplaying in the open now just leaves you open for griefing from the the very players you claim are just "trying to have fun in-game."

Or the short version: It is hard to "look to each interaction as a chance to introduce others to RP" when many of those interactions effectively sabotages roleplay.

Of course, the sabotage is sometimes unintentional, but in far too many cases not. The default for most roleplayers is still to raise our heads high and let the others have their fun. Honestly. We do this all the time. We did so even back when the RP policy was upheld.

What should we do when things go really bad, though? /ignore removes some disruptions. If we wait 10 minutes, the offender might get bored and run elsewhere. We could try a friendly /tell and politely ask the other to pretty please not disrupt things (however, given that SSG has done its best to neuter the RP policy, we usually get a barrage back starting with "I have a right to play the game the way I want so nyah", and things go downhill from there). As for reporting, I pretty much gave up on that back in 2018 because GM response time was far to slow or because reports were never acted upon.

The outcome of all this is that many roleplayers have given up. Some have headed into secluded areas to roleplay there, avoiding the public hotspots. Or they simply quit the game, because it didn't offer any real roleplaying opportunities for them.

Which is just sad for a roleplaying server.

So repeating the quote from my previous post:

If only SSG would update the official roleplay guidelines for their RP servers to an updated SSG format, and make an official statement that they expect players who decide to roll a character on an RP server to adhere to the official RP rules, that would go a long way.

[Talttos]

I can only be with Linawillow in this, Aedon.

Either you have no dedicated RP servers in a game, and then you cope with it as best you can, or you have them, and then you expect them to be at least RP-friendly -from SSG's side-. Suggesting that you just pinned again the thread only because some people were too insistent was disappointing, and unsticking it again was even more so.

It's ok if you don't want to have RP rules, even less enforce them, but hiding the ones you say you stick to? Sad indeed...