Does the imbued Hearten legacy affect Composure?

[gildhur]

This seems like an easy answer and obvious oversight, but I just want to make sure.

On an imbued LI, you can get Hearten Heal Strength up to +50.4% (pre-Mordor), but since the Composure trait turns Hearten into a different skill with a % of morale heal instead of a numerical heal, does the legacy even work with that trait?

The tooltip clearly doesn't change. Fully traited, Composure heals 5% of morale. Maxing out the legacy does not change that number. But does it change the actual heal proc'd?

After a quick test, it appears the answer is NO.

As a primarily Claw-traited Beorning, this means one legacy on which I've spent untold scrolls does nothing for me. This might be a good item to add to the list for a future quality-of-life update.

[Ethrildar]

It does nothing. Percentile heals are just that, percentile.

[Joedangod]

Technically it removes Hearten and replaces it with Composure....so the legacy probably shouldn't ever apply to Composure. Even if that weren't the case it's a bit excessive asking for an already powerful % based heal to be increased by 50%.

[Capital0]

Technically it removes Hearten and replaces it with Composure....so the legacy probably shouldn't ever apply to Composure.

Except grabbing the trait Hardened Heart from the Hide Line DOES affect composure even though the tool tip doesn't say so.

I understand that sentiment, and agree that composure would be VERY powerful if it gained another 2.5% max moral onto its heal per second, but it is inconsistent.

[Joedangod]

Except grabbing the trait Hardened Heart from the Hide Line DOES affect composure even though the tool tip doesn't say so.

I understand that sentiment, and agree that composure would be VERY powerful if it gained another 2.5% max moral onto its heal per second, but it is inconsistent.

Easy enough to fix then. They just need to correct the Hardened Heart tooltip to say it applies to Composure as well.

[Pavlin]

Technically it removes Hearten and replaces it with Composure....so the legacy probably shouldn't ever apply to Composure. Even if that weren't the case it's a bit excessive asking for an already powerful % based heal to be increased by 50%.

Already powerfull you say ? Let me ask you something. How much HP you have with red beor / with a dps gear/ ? Now see how much HP you get back from percentile heal. Now please call it powerfull again.
Ppl think this skill is op because they use it when wear Blue or Yellow gear / which means alot of HP and huge healing from composture/. But if you truly play with red gear your hp is not that high and heal is a MEH. And it have decent CD too...
So yes, some improvement wont make us beasts, dont worry.
And just for the records. Wardens have 3x our self heal and 5x our dmg.
(yes i main both classes)

[Joedangod]

Already powerfull you say ? Let me ask you something. How much HP you have with red beor / with a dps gear/ ? Now see how much HP you get back from percentile heal. Now please call it powerfull again.

Erm, red bear at 115 is 70k+ morale. A 40% heal (presuming non-crit) comes out as a 28k morale heal over 8s. That's 3.5k morale per second on non-crits for the duration of the heal. If it crits you're looking at quite a bit more healing since every pulse will crit. The skill also gives you a nice wrath boost for the duration so you're gonna be using it pretty frequently. Of course that's not all that a Beorning has for healing, Recuperate is a pretty logical skill to get for a red bear (you specced into blue for armour crush anyway) so you have another heal there for when you really get into trouble.

Do you know what a Hunter has? 20% every 15s. RK? 30% every 15s. Wardens may technically be able to produce higher healing but unlike Beornings there is a cost to that, they lose masteries that could be used for spear bleeds and the like. They don't have 3x our self heals, they might be able to edge us out if they literally do nothing but heal versus composure + recuperate but...that's just not something that is ever required or even useful to do.

Beorning damage could use a buff but if it gets high enough to compete with the likes of Hunters there probably should be a nerf to the defence of the class in redline.

[Pavlin]

Erm, red bear at 115 is 70k+ morale. A 40% heal (presuming non-crit) comes out as a 28k morale heal over 8s. That's 3.5k morale per second on non-crits for the duration of the heal. If it crits you're looking at quite a bit more healing since every pulse will crit. The skill also gives you a nice wrath boost for the duration so you're gonna be using it pretty frequently. Of course that's not all that a Beorning has for healing, Recuperate is a pretty logical skill to get for a red bear (you specced into blue for armour crush anyway) so you have another heal there for when you really get into trouble.

Do you know what a Hunter has? 20% every 15s. RK? 30% every 15s. Wardens may technically be able to produce higher healing but unlike Beornings there is a cost to that, they lose masteries that could be used for spear bleeds and the like. They don't have 3x our self heals, they might be able to edge us out if they literally do nothing but heal versus composure + recuperate but...that's just not something that is ever required or even useful to do.

Beorning damage could use a buff but if it gets high enough to compete with the likes of Hunters there probably should be a nerf to the defence of the class in redline.

Good heal over 8 seconds. You play a beor you know how mich time you need to cast that skill/ because beor skill animation is so clumsy/ for this time i can hard cast it faster with a warden. It gives resource back but it cost you 6 sp in blue tree. You can have some exttra heal from recuperate if you spec heavy in blue tree /when you play red bear/ but is not free too . And the fact as a red bear you have one usefull legacy less is stil here. Wont agree with warden. Warden is DoT class. You set your dots and have plenty of time to hard cast your heal sequence. Wont mention that you have enough gambits to even mastery cast them and even memoryze a 5gambit heal for later use. If you play blue and have right talent you masteryes refresh even faster. Why mention hunter and rk ? You compare them to beor ? Hunter use his heal in pvmp or in some aoe/range fights, because most likely target is dead before menage to come mele range and score hit. Similar with rk. I love what they did with beor. To be honest we dont need more heal. SSG just need to cut the beor skill animation time (atleast buff and heal skills), to give blue bears block with 2h clubs/ like capy with 2h swords/ Must convert bonus HP in bear form to evade and must make Bash 5 target skill. Yellow bear was good before and is even better now, no changes needed (maybe a shield skill? ) Thats all we need. Hope we will have it sooner or later

[Joedangod]

DPS lines aren't supposed to be particularly adept at self healing though, that's not their job in groups and their DPS should be suitable to carry them through landscape.

Do you even have any comprehension of what the changes you want result in? Yellow Beorning is already by far the most durable healer in the game, it shouldn't get shields in any way shape or form. It's not fine either, there are so many bugs that make it inconsistent and painful that you are generally always better off with a minstrel.

Slapping block on blue line doesn't fix anything at all; the traitline completely lacks any way to take advantage of avoidances, no % buffs, no rating buffs and not even any racial buffs. Avoidance is only valuable if you can get it to a point where you consistently avoid and Beornings cannot reach that point without huge sacrifices elsewhere.

And why on earth should bash hit 5 targets? Redline is predominantly a single target traitline, the vast majority of the skills and effects it adds are meant for single target use. Raw damage numbers on skills are low and could do with a buff but slapping AoE on a class just to inflate DPS is pretty silly since the core concepts of the class cannot take advantage of that.

[Pavlin]

DPS lines aren't supposed to be particularly adept at self healing though, that's not their job in groups and their DPS should be suitable to carry them through landscape.

Do you even have any comprehension of what the changes you want result in? Yellow Beorning is already by far the most durable healer in the game, it shouldn't get shields in any way shape or form. It's not fine either, there are so many bugs that make it inconsistent and painful that you are generally always better off with a minstrel.

Slapping block on blue line doesn't fix anything at all; the traitline completely lacks any way to take advantage of avoidances, no % buffs, no rating buffs and not even any racial buffs. Avoidance is only valuable if you can get it to a point where you consistently avoid and Beornings cannot reach that point without huge sacrifices elsewhere.

And why on earth should bash hit 5 targets? Redline is predominantly a single target traitline, the vast majority of the skills and effects it adds are meant for single target use. Raw damage numbers on skills are low and could do with a buff but slapping AoE on a class just to inflate DPS is pretty silly since the core concepts of the class cannot take advantage of that.

In EVERY mmo, EVERY dps class have selfheals. Yellow beor is stil on the bottom /if we not talk about pvmp/ this mean every other healing class do better and will less efords. When i say give yellow beor shield i mean a ability to shield others. Is the only healer who cant shield and cant put HoTs. Beor do NEED block and SOME avoidance boost. But that avoid boost must not be huge because it will make us broken op class. We will be fine with block, self heal, and the dmg reduce we have. I said convert HP bonus from bear form to evade, beacuse blue bear get some nice extras when avoid. I dont see reason of mitigation bonus in bear form / unless they make them go above cap. To get full benefit of bear form mitigation bonus you must let your human form uncaped. In human form with not block/evade/dodge you will take dmg like regular medium armor dps class. If you truly play and like beor class, pls dont say BS like we are fine. Because we are not. After last patch we are better than before, but far from fine.

[siipperi]

Beornings would be way better of if they removed whole % heal trait and changed it to give like +50-100% damage.

Already powerfull you say ? Let me ask you something. How much HP you have with red beor / with a dps gear/ ? Now see how much HP you get back from percentile heal. Now please call it powerfull again.
Ppl think this skill is op because they use it when wear Blue or Yellow gear / which means alot of HP and huge healing from composture/. But if you truly play with red gear your hp is not that high and heal is a MEH. And it have decent CD too...
So yes, some improvement wont make us beasts, dont worry.
And just for the records. Wardens have 3x our self heal and 5x our dmg.
(yes i main both classes)

I know few beornings before mordor that would heal over 2k hps while eventually killing opponent. Meanwhile light armor classes dont even come close to that hps. Their red healing is simply too much and I have no idea who said the heal is fine inearly testing.

[Pavlin]

Beornings would be way better of if they removed whole % heal trait and changed it to give like +50-100% damage.



I know few beornings before mordor that would heal over 2k hps while eventually killing opponent. Meanwhile light armor classes dont even come close to that hps. Their red healing is simply too much and I have no idea who said the heal is fine inearly testing.

You never end game beor righ ?
Dont tell me what you hear. Every player who say beor is fine didnt play it above lvl 100.
Mini outheal more. Same as RK and even champ, if he have killing fuel. When you play against decent hitting enemy you need to fking kite because till you cast heal you already lose more hp than you get back. And is HOT. Raise one to end level, play it alittle and then come and tell me more about how strong the healing is :P
Sry for my tone but ""I know few.... "" pisses me off every time i see it
No ofence and good luck.

And no. We DONT want leech, we want healing. Leech heal means you need to dps to get HP back and in some situation we need to kite. With all our skills /dont even mention bees please/ being melee, it mean we are dead. Leave leaching to heavy classes like champ.

[siipperi]

You never end game beor righ ?
Dont tell me what you hear. Every player who say beor is fine didnt play it above lvl 100.
Mini outheal more. Same as RK and even champ, if he have killing fuel. When you play against decent hitting enemy you need to fking kite because till you cast heal you already lose more hp than you get back. And is HOT. Raise one to end level, play it alittle and then come and tell me more about how strong the healing is :P
Sry for my tone but ""I know few.... "" pisses me off every time i see it
No ofence and good luck.

And no. We DONT want leech, we want healing. Leech heal means you need to dps to get HP back and in some situation we need to kite. With all our skills /dont even mention bees please/ being melee, it mean we are dead. Leave leaching to heavy classes like champ.

I have 105 beorning who have instanced and raided with.

I'm only speaking about self healing capability in red in my post if you took time to read it. It might become news to you but red line has % based healing. Arguably strongest healing in red line out of any class rivaled only by warden.

edit. I actually tested this with tank build of 68k morale, got self healing of 1.8k HPS with just composure in 1 min fight, if you want more self healing you can use blue HoTs.

I totally agree beorning is terrible in all group roles but their self healing is more than fine.

[Pavlin]

I have 105 beorning who have instanced and raided with.

I'm only speaking about self healing capability in red in my post if you took time to read it. It might become news to you but red line has % based healing. Arguably strongest healing in red line out of any class rivaled only by warden.

edit. I actually tested this with tank build of 68k morale, got self healing of 1.8k HPS with just composure in 1 min fight, if you want more self healing you can use blue HoTs.

I totally agree beorning is terrible in all group roles but their self healing is more than fine.

I do read your coment. And again. Because is a % base healing it works well with larger HP pool. Which red beor dont have with dps gear. The confusion and OP rumors came from ppl who play red / when solo/ with their healer or tank gear. And when they see the big numbers they moan about OPines . Without even realise that the pure dps beor have half their hp= half the heal they get.
As i say at the curent stage beor dont need more healing. But this is not because the heal is soo good. Is only because now with few more SP we can take recuperate without need to sacrafice red points. We do need a 1 more ""RED"" legacy. No reason to run with blue or yellow one and to be one short. Hope you agree.

And i totaly agree with your ""I totally agree beorning is terrible in all group roles but their self healing is more than fine.""
just will make a little addition: ""but their self healing is more than fine. NOW""

And this "" I actually tested this with tank build of 68k morale, got self healing of 1.8k HPS with just composure in 1 min fight,"" you mean with RED tank build ? Because with blue you have no enough SP to spec composture.
And red is not tank/ even if you call it such

[Joedangod]

In EVERY mmo, EVERY dps class have selfheals. Yellow beor is stil on the bottom /if we not talk about pvmp/ this mean every other healing class do better and will less efords. When i say give yellow beor shield i mean a ability to shield others. Is the only healer who cant shield and cant put HoTs. Beor do NEED block and SOME avoidance boost. But that avoid boost must not be huge because it will make us broken op class. We will be fine with block, self heal, and the dmg reduce we have. I said convert HP bonus from bear form to evade, beacuse blue bear get some nice extras when avoid. I dont see reason of mitigation bonus in bear form / unless they make them go above cap. To get full benefit of bear form mitigation bonus you must let your human form uncaped. In human form with not block/evade/dodge you will take dmg like regular medium armor dps class. If you truly play and like beor class, pls dont say BS like we are fine. Because we are not. After last patch we are better than before, but far from fine.

Hrm, WoW notably doesn't give every DPS line self healing and several lines that technically do have self healing often have it tied into 1 minute + cooldowns. LOTRO is quite an oddity in terms of sheer access to self heals in damage or tank lines.

Still, I don't know where you got the idea that I think the class is "fine" from: I think the collection of detailed threads analysing every aspect of the class in order to give, what is hopefully, useful feedback has more than highlighted the fact that I think the class is far from "fine". You don't need to tell me that bonus armour rating in bear form is stupid because I have already documented such an observation and sent the information to the developers.

Your "solutions" however totally lack any foresight of the drawbacks and in some cases underestimate how your requests could be abused and how several of them alter the fundamental concept of the class. Beornings don't need avoidance buffs/self healing, that's the domain of the Warden and quite simply not in keeping with how blue line plays or how it is designed at all. Evade bonuses should probably be avoided considering how they combo with counter-attack, bear form is already trivial to maintain in blue line and it does not need to be made easier. Avoidance buffs in general are a poor idea for Beornings, they sound good on paper but then you realise that they don't touch the tactical side of things at all where Beornings are overall the weakest tanks for tactical damage. The class in general seems to be designed as a mitigations tank, that kind of style doesn't require avoidance to be useful it just needs better designed max mitigation values that allow it to compete.

As far as yellow Beorning goes it already has a shield ability, if the devs finally resolved the bugs with sacrifice and severed it's tie to bear form then you would actually have an excellent skill for this purpose. When it comes to Beornings being on the bottom for healing...that's quite simply not true at the moment. Runekeepers have taken a hefty nerf in terms of healing competitiveness due to the lack of scaling with 115, Beornings on the other hand are the only primary healing class that scaled up with the release of Mordor. Their healing output in 6 mans is still a little bit beneath Minstrels but when you get into a raid Beornings will outparse everyone and contribute far more as a single healer than any other class could hope to do (except perhaps a Captain who just stuck revealing mark on something due to the absurd nature of revealing mark). They might just be the outright strongest moors healers right now as well considering their superior defence and mobility compared to minstrels.

[Pavlin]

Hrm, WoW notably doesn't give every DPS line self healing and several lines that technically do have self healing often have it tied into 1 minute + cooldowns. LOTRO is quite an oddity in terms of sheer access to self heals in damage or tank lines.

Still, I don't know where you got the idea that I think the class is "fine" from: I think the collection of detailed threads analysing every aspect of the class in order to give, what is hopefully, useful feedback has more than highlighted the fact that I think the class is far from "fine". You don't need to tell me that bonus armour rating in bear form is stupid because I have already documented such an observation and sent the information to the developers.

Your "solutions" however totally lack any foresight of the drawbacks and in some cases underestimate how your requests could be abused and how several of them alter the fundamental concept of the class. Beornings don't need avoidance buffs/self healing, that's the domain of the Warden and quite simply not in keeping with how blue line plays or how it is designed at all. Evade bonuses should probably be avoided considering how they combo with counter-attack, bear form is already trivial to maintain in blue line and it does not need to be made easier. Avoidance buffs in general are a poor idea for Beornings, they sound good on paper but then you realise that they don't touch the tactical side of things at all where Beornings are overall the weakest tanks for tactical damage. The class in general seems to be designed as a mitigations tank, that kind of style doesn't require avoidance to be useful it just needs better designed max mitigation values that allow it to compete.

As far as yellow Beorning goes it already has a shield ability, if the devs finally resolved the bugs with sacrifice and severed it's tie to bear form then you would actually have an excellent skill for this purpose. When it comes to Beornings being on the bottom for healing...that's quite simply not true at the moment. Runekeepers have taken a hefty nerf in terms of healing competitiveness due to the lack of scaling with 115, Beornings on the other hand are the only primary healing class that scaled up with the release of Mordor. Their healing output in 6 mans is still a little bit beneath Minstrels but when you get into a raid Beornings will outparse everyone and contribute far more as a single healer than any other class could hope to do (except perhaps a Captain who just stuck revealing mark on something due to the absurd nature of revealing mark). They might just be the outright strongest moors healers right now as well considering their superior defence and mobility compared to minstrels.

You probably stop WoW long time ago. This you say about it was a case in vanila and tbc. Check it now
Avoidance is not poor idea for beo. Its a medium armor tank with no block and no evade/parry. How you sopose to live ? In single target fights you are fine because of 1 hit aply +10% dmg reduce. I aoe you need to spam sweep to spread dmg reduce debuf which work on close targets and is not spamable because have cd. And HOW pure tank stats like evade are class based (warden)?
And how the heck beor is weakest tank when we speak about tactical dmg ? With proper legacy hes is more than ok. The phisical dmg/ and aoe range dmg are the problem here.
About the healing beor i agree with you. Is not on the botom AND it is. I will explain why.
When we speak about kin runs beor is great healer. Because (in most cases) kin run means ppl know what to do and you probably have some sort of comunication. Then beor is great.
BUT if you go pug runs and everyone act randomly and mindlesly jump and dps beor is a hell to play. Is WAY too easy to cary bad grps with ministrel and even with RK.
Beor is good healer if the grp is smart. Hope you get it.
And is the strongest pvmp healer. Hands down.

[Joedangod]

You probably stop WoW long time ago. This you say about it was a case in vanila and tbc. Check it now

Err, stopped playing about two months ago...had an Arcane mage...no self heals there. Certainly don't recall any class with a heal so spammable that you could put it in a short rotation like LOTRO allows.

Avoidance is not poor idea for beo. Its a medium armor tank with no block and no evade/parry. How you sopose to live ? In single target fights you are fine because of 1 hit aply +10% dmg reduce. I aoe you need to spam sweep to spread dmg reduce debuf which work on close targets and is not spamable because have cd. And HOW pure tank stats like evade are class based (warden)?

Avoidance is a poor idea for Beorning because it's honestly not in keeping with the class design. Adding the ability to block to Beornings does next to nothing for the class, increasing evade chance in bear form mostly just makes staying in bear form easier. Beornings are not designed as an avoidance tank, they get almost nothing towards avoidance compared to Wardens or even Guardians who both have legacies/skills that can effectively permanently increase their avoidance to near cap. Making Beornings work with avoidance would require quite a drastic retooling of several skills (and gear) so that Beornings could actually eke out enough BPE to reliably reduce incoming damage. The class already has a bunch of mitigation bonuses, retooling those to be more useful takes less effort and can reduce TPS to the level of other tank classes in this game. There are other possibilites here that don't result in just making Beornings into a weird clone of an existing class.

And how the heck beor is weakest tank when we speak about tactical dmg ? With proper legacy hes is more than ok. The phisical dmg/ and aoe range dmg are the problem here.

...Huh? There is only 1 legacy that even remotely effects incoming tactical damage and that's thickened hide tactical mitigation legacy...do I have to spell out to you why undercapping tact mits by 7300 just so you can cap them out during a 15s panic button with a 2 minute cooldown is a terrible idea? Outside of that Beornings have 55% tactical mitigations, on average this is the lowest of all tank classes (Wardens have DC which can bump them up to 90% mits for a hefty % of a fight, captains sit at 60-63%, Guardians are at 70% and Champions sit at 65%).

About the healing beor i agree with you. Is not on the botom AND it is. I will explain why.
When we speak about kin runs beor is great healer. Because (in most cases) kin run means ppl know what to do and you probably have some sort of comunication. Then beor is great.
BUT if you go pug runs and everyone act randomly and mindlesly jump and dps beor is a hell to play. Is WAY too easy to cary bad grps with ministrel and even with RK.
Beor is good healer if the grp is smart. Hope you get it.
And is the strongest pvmp healer. Hands down.

Except RK's got a hefty healing nerf compared to Beornings with 115. I'd honestly say that at this point in time a Beorning is a stronger healer, it's a fair bit more capable in terms of AoE healing and far stronger on single target. It should still be reworked but most of that work involves redistributing some of the traitlines potency more evenly between bear form and man form.

[Pavlin]

Err, stopped playing about two months ago...had an Arcane mage...no self heals there. Certainly don't recall any class with a heal so spammable that you could put it in a short rotation like LOTRO allows.



Avoidance is a poor idea for Beorning because it's honestly not in keeping with the class design. Adding the ability to block to Beornings does next to nothing for the class, increasing evade chance in bear form mostly just makes staying in bear form easier. Beornings are not designed as an avoidance tank, they get almost nothing towards avoidance compared to Wardens or even Guardians who both have legacies/skills that can effectively permanently increase their avoidance to near cap. Making Beornings work with avoidance would require quite a drastic retooling of several skills (and gear) so that Beornings could actually eke out enough BPE to reliably reduce incoming damage. The class already has a bunch of mitigation bonuses, retooling those to be more useful takes less effort and can reduce TPS to the level of other tank classes in this game. There are other possibilites here that don't result in just making Beornings into a weird clone of an existing class.



...Huh? There is only 1 legacy that even remotely effects incoming tactical damage and that's thickened hide tactical mitigation legacy...do I have to spell out to you why undercapping tact mits by 7300 just so you can cap them out during a 15s panic button with a 2 minute cooldown is a terrible idea? Outside of that Beornings have 55% tactical mitigations, on average this is the lowest of all tank classes (Wardens have DC which can bump them up to 90% mits for a hefty % of a fight, captains sit at 60-63%, Guardians are at 70% and Champions sit at 65%).



Except RK's got a hefty healing nerf compared to Beornings with 115. I'd honestly say that at this point in time a Beorning is a stronger healer, it's a fair bit more capable in terms of AoE healing and far stronger on single target. It should still be reworked but most of that work involves redistributing some of the traitlines potency more evenly between bear form and man form.

You pick the only class in wow who can end the battle agains X openents without even be tuched ?
Do you have same level of control with beor ? Whatever. We wont speak about other games.

Why compare beor mits to heavy class ones ? Compare it with a warden. Liked or not we are in same level as warden. Medium armor tanks . You say evasion in general is stupid for bears. It not suits the class. There i can agree. Bear is not a wisel. Bear go straight in a fray. But you dont aprove block too. Then what ? A dmg reduction in bear form ? Remove cd from Sweep and make bonus aply insta. Not with stack ? But then come a problem with targets which are away ? What to do here ? Remove sweep and add his efect to `Thunderious Roar ? Wont this make class little op ?

Let me ask you why you not aprove block ?
Warden is medium tanks but they have evasion, posibility to kite and very nice heal.
All heavy tanks are HEAVY tanks. Lots of mits. And cappy beat us when we speak about larger HP pool. His is bigger and not in bear form / in bear form we need to be outhealed to get benefit of bonus hp/ + Cappy have block.
So wehere we stand. Medium tanks. Long cd survive skills. With zero BOP and empty HP bonus in bear form. Which make out HP go up and down every time we change form and give healers a good reason to hate us.

Ok i agree WITH ALL you say. Now tell me what you sugest ? What you think we need ?

[Joedangod]

You pick the only class in wow who can end the battle agains X openents without even be tuched ?
Do you have same level of control with beor ? Whatever. We wont speak about other games.

But...you were the one who brought up other games in the first place?

Why compare beor mits to heavy class ones ? Compare it with a warden. Liked or not we are in same level as warden. Medium armor tanks . You say evasion in general is stupid for bears. It not suits the class. There i can agree. Bear is not a wisel. Bear go straight in a fray. But you dont aprove block too. Then what ? A dmg reduction in bear form ? Remove cd from Sweep and make bonus aply insta. Not with stack ? But then come a problem with targets which are away ? What to do here ? Remove sweep and add his efect to `Thunderious Roar ? Wont this make class little op ?

You know, armour type isn't really that notable. Guardians get +12%/10% to physical/tactical mits permanently and can further buff themselves to 92%/90% total mits for a few seconds. Armour class doesn't lock you in at a set mitigations value, it just sets your baseline. Every tank class tweaks this baseline in some way.

Ok i agree WITH ALL you say. Now tell me what you sugest ? What you think we need ?

As a base it would be nice to see the tactical mitigation bonus removed from it's current position in blue line and have the physical mitigation trait reworked so that it gives +10% physical and tactical mitigations. This would put Beornings at 60% tactical mitigation and 70% physical with Guarded up. Bear form bonus morale should probably go, perhaps in favour of a -10% incoming damage buff for bear form: a nice buff but not something that massively cripples man form for not having it. Next part I haven't really thought about, it should probably involve setting up a stacking buff system from man form which reduces incoming damage by up to 30% or so. Entering bear form should lock that buff in for 10-15 seconds (and you shouldn't be able to reapply the buffs from bear form).

Basically the end result is Beornings having 70% phys mits but little to no avoidance, they don't really have notable access to partials but they do have an incoming damage reduction that basically functions like partial mitigation, albeit with less RNG involved and a weaker damage reduction than partial mitigation offers. Tactical mitigation would be at 60% but the incoming damage reductions would effectively reduce this damage by 30% putting Beornings ever so slightly ahead of Guardians for tactical defence (which Guardians can surpass through intelligent usage of redirect). The exact numerical values that should be used are probably slightly different from what I have offered, unfortunately only SSG has access to the exact calculations to work out how much TPS other tanks take in order to align Beorning accordingly. Some incoming damage buffs would inevitably combo well with this so great care should be taken to ensure that the - incoming damage levels do not get excessive. Things like tome of defence and minstrel coda spring to mind and should be taken into consideration.

As far as playstyle it should work out as roughly the same as what we have now: Bear form is used when maximum defence is required and for when you need to grab aggro. Man form is primarily used to support bear form during the interim moments. Still, this is a rough concept. I mostly just want to retain the current playstyle but buffed to the point where it equals the other tank options.

[Pavlin]

As a base it would be nice to see the tactical mitigation bonus removed from it's current position in blue line and have the physical mitigation trait reworked so that it gives +10% physical and tactical mitigations. This would put Beornings at 60% tactical mitigation and 70% physical with Guarded up. Bear form bonus morale should probably go, perhaps in favour of a -10% incoming damage buff for bear form: a nice buff but not something that massively cripples man form for not having it. Next part I haven't really thought about, it should probably involve setting up a stacking buff system from man form which reduces incoming damage by up to 30% or so. Entering bear form should lock that buff in for 10-15 seconds (and you shouldn't be able to reapply the buffs from bear form).

Basically the end result is Beornings having 70% phys mits but little to no avoidance, they don't really have notable access to partials but they do have an incoming damage reduction that basically functions like partial mitigation, albeit with less RNG involved and a weaker damage reduction than partial mitigation offers. Tactical mitigation would be at 60% but the incoming damage reductions would effectively reduce this damage by 30% putting Beornings ever so slightly ahead of Guardians for tactical defence (which Guardians can surpass through intelligent usage of redirect). The exact numerical values that should be used are probably slightly different from what I have offered, unfortunately only SSG has access to the exact calculations to work out how much TPS other tanks take in order to align Beorning accordingly. Some incoming damage buffs would inevitably combo well with this so great care should be taken to ensure that the - incoming damage levels do not get excessive. Things like tome of defence and minstrel coda spring to mind and should be taken into consideration.

As far as playstyle it should work out as roughly the same as what we have now: Bear form is used when maximum defence is required and for when you need to grab aggro. Man form is primarily used to support bear form during the interim moments. Still, this is a rough concept. I mostly just want to retain the current playstyle but buffed to the point where it equals the other tank options.

Sounds good. Too good to be true. Can even hear rest of the playerbase shouting ""nerf bears"".
Time will tell.
Cheers.

[Oelle]

yep, sounds good. like many other suggestions about beornings tankyness.
I even liked "let them keep taking the damage they do, but give them a passive to distribute every taken damage over the next x seconds".
This would at least give them a tankspot for spiky fights, which wouldnt be spiky with a high enough x anymore.
Whatever. There are many suggestions for beorns tankline. The actual one is clearly the worst tank, by far. It shouldnt be such an obviously big difference.
I dont care which buff they get as long as it makes them viable (and no, I dont mean viable like in "you can take them and do the content, because content is easy and some op equipment is available someday").

[Joedangod]

I dont care which buff they get as long as it makes them viable (and no, I dont mean viable like in "you can take them and do the content, because content is easy and some op equipment is available someday").

It's why I use the word "Competitive" these days.

[Oelle]

It's why I use the word "Competitive" these days.

doesnt matter which word you use, some people dont get it anyway
so better explain it every time^^

[salmonfire]

Now that we got that out of the way, I want to respond to the comments. A fair amount of the comments related to the mechanics i don't understand. And that's ok for me. I play yellow bear. I play him now because of the thousands of gold and marks i put into him. At lev 115 my mits and crit def is right around 49%. i got 140 Light. I don't have any yellow 115 gear and not that many crafted essences yet. I already posted how beorn aoe has the same window as a base-ball players strike zone, and anything not right in front of me i can't hit with aoe; while they can hammer me. When i enter Fulsham Bal i often die if 2 foes aggro me at the same time, if i can cut one foe down before the other aggro's me i am fine. For 3 foes i die in seconds. Each of those foes there are hitting me for 4-6k damg per blow. As mentioned above; the most i can do is heal enough for one of those blows, for the other two foes hitting me look; it looks like they avoid my parry and evade while reducing my morale 10-12k with each strike. If i get stunned while its on c/d im dead. So with a landscape healer giving me 1k in-combat heal i still die. I want my AOE to hit more like the Champs schwing-schwing -all foes in 180 degrees in front of me. I want Heavy Armour and Block on two-hand weaps in each trait-line. Those are the only 3 things i can think of, but im no genius thats fer sure! So in Fulsham Bal i end up becoming a beornaburglar, thats the only way i can survive. The skill animations drive me nutz btw!