Bullroarer Update 22 (#3) - Preview and Release Notes

[Hallandil]

Yes, I had to wander where the last mistrustful dwarf is, and found him by chance that i could hardly sure the exact place.

I was trying to go outside the palace to find him but in the middle of the way i detected the yellow name and just got to finish the quest.

the last one could be found the middle line of the palace from King to the door as far as I remembered.

Figured out the issue. Turns out having the other two quests in "Reforging a Kingdom" completed (i.e. Essays of Old and Ravens of the North) caused the 4th Mistrustful Dwarf to phase out. When I cancelled Reforging a Kingdom but left Forging Trust open, the dwarf npc finally appeared and allowed me to interact with them.

[Hannariel]

If the intent is to prevent the extra buffs from swapping trait lines, why not just cancel the buffs when you put up a buff in a new trait line instead of having a timer on swapping trait lines?

There have been a number of occasions when someone will ask me how I have something traited and I'll swap lines to let them know and then swap back to continue on my merry way. Also, sometimes when re-specializing a line I will go back to an old line to make sure how I had it or take a screen shot and then will swap back....waiting the 30 seconds is a bit of a nuisance.

[Cordovan]

If the intent is to prevent the extra buffs from swapping trait lines, why not just cancel the buffs when you put up a buff in a new trait line instead of having a timer on swapping trait lines?

There have been a number of occasions when someone will ask me how I have something traited and I'll swap lines to let them know and then swap back to continue on my merry way. Also, sometimes when re-specializing a line I will go back to an old line to make sure how I had it or take a screen shot and then will swap back....waiting the 30 seconds is a bit of a nuisance.

This is an idea we have considered, but have so far implemented a cooldown as your suggestion requires additional work we have so far not opted to pursue.

[Narthalion]

"... your suggestion requires additional work we have so far not opted to pursue.

lol That sounds like it could be the Dev response to a LOT of player observations over the last couple of years.

[Thurallor]

"... your suggestion requires additional work we have so far not opted to pursue.

lol That sounds like it could be the Dev response to a LOT of player observations over the last couple of years.

Of course. That's how software development works. Every design or management decision is a choice that involves "opting to pursue" one path, at the expense of others. Development man-hours are neither free nor infinite.

[RingOfFire]

This is an idea we have considered, but have so far implemented a cooldown as your suggestion requires additional work we have so far not opted to pursue.

While I do not necessarily agree with this decision, I do appreciate telling us directly as opposed to no direct communication on the subject. I respect that.

[Taldeen]

This is an idea we have considered, but have so far implemented a cooldown as your suggestion requires additional work we have so far not opted to pursue.

While not unexpected nor the answer i hoped for, at least honest. However you can just remove the cooldown, 30s does not accomplish anything but annoys players. 60s will limit only minstrels pre-fight buffing ability to 4 hymns, and will annoy players even more. Basically you are not achieving what you are hoping for, but annoy players.

[Oelle]

While not unexpected nor the answer i hoped for, at least honest. However you can just remove the cooldown, 30s does not accomplish anything but annoys players. 60s will limit only minstrels pre-fight buffing ability to 4 hymns, and will annoy players even more. Basically you are not achieving what you are hoping for, but annoy players.

well... if, as they say, traitswapping is a performance issue... than at least putting a cooldown on it will have an impact. may be small, but its something.
it doesnt fight the real issue though.
but fighting bad performance is a begin.

[Taldeen]

well... if, as they say, traitswapping is a performance issue... than at least putting a cooldown on it will have an impact. may be small, but its something.
it doesnt fight the real issue though.
but fighting bad performance is a begin.

I would say you gain nothing. Because people will do the exact same traitswaps pre fight like they did before. So SSG implements a pseudo solution, that annoys people in the first place and they gain 0.
The whole traitsystem is bugged eitherway, but thats another topic (It's a rookie mistake to let chars relearn skills on traitswapping, instead of barring and hiding them. (Since internally they should be just hidden flags/references on the character object.))

[pittcrew1]

This is an idea we have considered, but have so far implemented a cooldown as your suggestion requires additional work we have so far not opted to pursue.

I think that a better solution to the Trait respec cooldown would be to make to make it so that using ANY skill (or ideally using any class skill) would trigger a ~20-30s cooldown for swapping traits. This will cover the duration of most buffs (not all, like ones that cover 5 minutes, but the best way to deal with those might be to have them removed when changing specs or reworking how some skills work, if that's really necessary), so that you can't cast some and then swap and still have them, which, as I see it, is the main reason for all of this being done in the first place. Then, remove the cooldown as it is, which would make it so that normal players just swapping between them can do so freely as long as they aren't using any class skills.

I think adding the cooldown on use of ANY skill should make it quite easy to add. Doing so may cause some issues to arise, what with special-case skills.

[Thurinuor]

I think that a better solution to the Trait respec cooldown would be to make to make it so that using ANY skill (or ideally using any class skill) would trigger a ~20-30s cooldown for swapping traits.

This sounds like a very good solution and should be implemented by the devs relatively easy I think.

[Krindel]

Set cooldown after switching traits to 10s, disable Cry of Chorus skill if you are out of combat.

[Hannariel]

I think that a better solution to the Trait respec cooldown would be to make to make it so that using ANY skill (or ideally using any class skill) would trigger a ~20-30s cooldown for swapping traits. This will cover the duration of most buffs (not all, like ones that cover 5 minutes, but the best way to deal with those might be to have them removed when changing specs or reworking how some skills work, if that's really necessary), so that you can't cast some and then swap and still have them, which, as I see it, is the main reason for all of this being done in the first place. Then, remove the cooldown as it is, which would make it so that normal players just swapping between them can do so freely as long as they aren't using any class skills.

I think adding the cooldown on use of ANY skill should make it quite easy to add. Doing so may cause some issues to arise, what with special-case skills.

I like this idea better....It allows people to inspect their trait lines and maybe respecialize or adjust a line and still swap back speedily without having used any skills. Though there have been instances when I was in one line and started a fight and realized I was in the wrong line to start with....would it allow me to swap back once the battle is over?

[Wolfhead]

Is there a rough arrival date for the new update yet (i.e. next month, 'summer' or 'when it's ready')?

[Oelle]

Is there a rough arrival date for the new update yet (i.e. next month, 'summer' or 'when it's ready')?

nope. which means "when it's ready".
Usually, updates stay in beta for roughly 1-2 months. roughly one month is over. So I'd guess within the next month. Its purely a landscape-questing-update and nearly all quests already work. so all thats left for it to go live is fixing the last some quests and changing lots of bugged texts, plus some annoyances like areas where one falls through the floor... but thats nearly done. As I see it, one more beta round is needed to have all quests working plus enough time to fix plain text. Dont know how much time they need to fix text, though. Its enough text that one would need some hours to read it all... and roughly a quarter of it needs to be corrected (at least in german client).
So... I would need some hours to get the text done. I expect SSG to need some months or years and still going live with it in some weeks.

[JiiPee]

Now that CoS challenge chest exploit seems to be fixed on bullroarer, could you also fix cappy/lm pet exploit? That exploit makes possible to skip almost all mechanics in twins and it makes also possible to skip troll before last boss.
I'm not sure, it seems like you guys was trying to fix it, because it wasn't as easy to do on bullroarer but it's still possible sadly.

[pittcrew1]

I like this idea better....It allows people to inspect their trait lines and maybe respecialize or adjust a line and still swap back speedily without having used any skills. Though there have been instances when I was in one line and started a fight and realized I was in the wrong line to start with....would it allow me to swap back once the battle is over?

Presumably, there would be two conditions for being able to swap: be out of combat, and be off of the trait respec cooldown. So you would be able to swap back after you finished the battle and after the 20-30s respec cooldown. And also, I'd say make it so that after combat ends, it resets that cooldown to like 10s (potentially even replacing a higher cooldown, if it existed), so that effects that persist for 9s after combat would be sure to be wiped out before you could swap lines.


(Otherwise you could get in combat with a trash mob, pop a skill, have allies kill it while the spec swap cooldown wore off to ~0s, leave combat and immediately swap, while being able to keep those effects, because combat might only be disengaged for <9s. I mean that kind of effort being involved basically makes me not care too much, cause like, sure, you've earned that. But for the sake of consistency, that would probably be the best option to make sure these effects don't cross over at all. Other effects, even though they may be strong, usually only last 20-30s max. So that might leave ~10s going into the next fight, but usually there aren't super high-pressure situations that early on anyways.) I might also recommend Anthems be changed to make it so they can also expire if out of combat for 9s, just cause they are a fairly big, somewhat unique problem (what with 1m+ durations), as far as I understand it.


But yeah, I don't want this to be too painful for normal players. So ideally, only a couple of seconds after leaving combat, so that you don't get stuck in a spec you don't want to be in. Especially annoying with patrolling enemies, even though it would tend to be a pretty rare occurrence.

[Daniyel]

there are ten classes. some set from some classes are pretty useless, but at least they are in-line with the class as far as stats are concerned. Except Captain. those base stats on armour are just Borked.
see my post earlier in the thread for an image.

why does nobody seem to care?
this has been issue since Beta 1 u21.3

[Oelle]

there are ten classes. some set from some classes are pretty useless, but at least they are in-line with the class as far as stats are concerned. Except Captain. those base stats on armour are just Borked.
see my post earlier in the thread for an image.

why does nobody seem to care?
this has been issue since Beta 1 u21.3

it would be more severe, if dps classes didnt have viable gear. cappies dont really need useful stats on their gear because they could still work with pure vitality gear (at least much better than most other classes). that might be why no one seems to care.

[Hallandil]

it would be more severe, if dps classes didnt have viable gear. cappies dont really need useful stats on their gear because they could still work with pure vitality gear (at least much better than most other classes). that might be why no one seems to care.

They also already fixed the vitality element, leaving the odd secondary stats... by that I mean the yellow set now has 1000+ vitality but it still contains physical mastery and finesse on items opposed to mitigations, bpe or crit defence.

... not sure if that makes it better or worse.

[Daniyel]

They also already fixed the vitality element, leaving the odd secondary stats...

last i checked, the "vitality" helmet's are still busted. not only for captains, but for Guard's and champs as well. For Pete's sake, the Allegiance two-slot for 135 pristine relics offers more vitality than the raid helmets!
Luckily, u22 remedied that by offering new ilvl-345 helmets =)