Bullroarer Update 23 (Build #1) - Preview and General Feedback

[ColMcStacky]

*I would also like to point out that currently in this build the only way to get teal essence boxes is by purchasing them for 500 ash. (Vendor is broken atm though, can't buy it)

*I seriusly hope we will take a different direction with the p2w lootbox/key gearing-progression system.

*Its fine if there are lootboxes, but please don't make it the optimal way to gear our characters.

*I would highly recommend introducing crafting recipes for essences aswell, so that atleast people that don't buy keys can craft essences aswell.

*Even if there is a daily quest like Mordor where you can earn keyfragments, please consider making keys & lootboxes not the optimal path to gear our characters. [/size]

I agree with everything here. I just want to expand on it, as recipes for crafting essences should be available, and they should include all crafts this time. There is no reason to exclude cook and scholar from crafting essences. That was a ridiculous decision that was made with Mordor, and it made no sense at all. A certain craft being able to make useful consumables for some classes is no reason to prevent them from being able to make necessary items for all classes. If you want to get finicky about it, then bar jewellers as well, because they make hope tokens. Weaponsmiths and metalsmiths make anvils for groups/raids though which are very useful as well, so might as well ban them from making essences as well. It's just a ridiculous idea to do this. You have to not only think about those of us at end-game who have 5 toons, but also about those who are just getting there, they might have one toon that is a crafter, and if its one of the crafts that got the short end of the stick, then they are completely screwed. Do not let this happen again.

Also, as other people said earlier, if instances have daily locks, get rid of these. I haven't had the chance to check out the instances yet on BR myself, but if they are there, please fix this. Daily loot locks (excluding raid here) was one of the biggest blunders of Mordor if you ask me because there was no incentive to run content more than once per day. It doesn't keep people coming back, it keeps them from coming back.

[Oelle]

Typos like "Michael Delving" are completely common in german client maps. Lots of typos since implementation of new maps. Especially in those collection maps for stablemasters... but yea, I'm all for getting all those typos under control. And not only on maps, but in Questtexts, too.

[Kazabooboo]

I think it's time for those with any priority on gameplay integrity to leave LOTRO to be honest. I realize that's not what most LOTRO players are focused on, but those who are at endgame would likely be much more satisfied playing another game.

Yes , you are right about that.

I started playing WoW ~2 months ago and i soon realised something that made me laugh.
If for example WoW has 1.000x more active players than Lotro does , it also happens to have 1.000x less items on its' store ,
mostly premium services and pets.... Different game and payment model , sure , however , i've checked out other games over the years as well and none of the mainstream MMOs i've tried has anywhere near that aggressive pay to win in comparison with Mordor onwards Lotro.

I honestly can't believe what is happening to this game. It feels like 'indie SSG' are 100% owned by their publisher ( which they tried to hide pretty well ) and that Severlin has absolutely no idea what is going on in his game , judging by past posts on the matter. He just assigns all the pay to win work to 1 engineer and never checks back. The ammount of times he has contradicted himself in the past is proof of that.

Thing is , Lotro nowadays is mostly played by casuals and players that have no idea how the MMO market works.
Sure , there are many games out there with lootboxes , but it's mostly pets and cosmetics , NOT gear.
Gearing through ''convenience and alternative'' lootboxes kills the duration of whatever content they can create and most importantly , they kill the effort->reward principle and removes all sense of achievement from gearing and progressing your character.
Why do you guys think that when Lotro store launched back in F2P , the first thing they tried to make absolutely clear , is that they will never sell gear and that store items won't ever give you a significant advantage ?
Sure , they lied about that since the beginning , by introducing stat tomes which were pretty significant for stats back then , but .... my god..........
Look at us now....

It's astonishing how some players are thrown this p2w madness on their face ( soon across all levels ) and they still have no idea what's going on.

I am curious , is this the model that DDO follows as well ???

[Hzn]

I can only agree with all comments.

- Stop the Pay to win content. You already mocked your customers enough with the Mordor. (P2W content in a PAID extension is just... I have no words for it.)
- Chest lock on a 6/3 mans instance was a ridicule change for Naerband & CoS, so don't do it again, it just kill even more the game because you prevent pp from... playing the game?

Nearly all my kin have fled the game with this P2W policy... This new content is not gonna make them come back.

[Lord.Funk]

GL HF all , keep supporting pay to win.


https://imgur.com/a/RiCNrLw

PS. That description on ''Hero's'' lootbox almost killed me.

Is anyone really surprised ???

This has been predicted by quite a few on the forums ever since Gorgoroth lootboxes was added and ash + end game stuff was put in them. Not to mention locks on 3 and 6-man to slow down gathering ash or anything and push people towards lootboxes. This is what loot boxes in games does. It spreads like a cancer and influence all design decisions in a game there after. I'm not happy about it. Spoken out against lootboxes from the start.

However I am neither shocked nor surprised.

[Vanyaerunanethiel]

By Durin's Beard!

Of Grey Mountains and Withered Heath The First impressions!

Spoliers: Please peer at Andang's Official You-Tube channel for the latest video ~ THE GREY MOUNTAINS - THE WITHERED HEATH - LOTRO Update 23 Beta https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc-7ENdLN5o


By Vana,Orome and High Lords of Arda, The Northern Kingdoms of the Naugrum,Drakes,Wights,Outstand ing world Design,Immersion I can feel it already!. I knew it, It took me less than a minute. I love the names of the fortresses. Tis a mixture of Ice Bay of Forochel,Misty Mountains and Khazad-Dum."Glimmer-Deep" reminded me on the Sivertine Lodges. It seems they are recycling the particular statues and items for decade ago.If you pay close attention, rail road,Dragonets,crystals and similar Architecture design. Thanks kindly for very early Sneak Peak. I am very fond of the Frozen places and I do love dwarves. Tis a perfect region for me to battle against Ancient foes of the Eldar and aid the Durin's Folk! The rest of the map as well, Design in general, effects, climate, the Landscape in whole ~ Marvellous.The new dwarven skins are of the excellent design. The moment which captured my attention was the sight of the Enormous Dragon Bones and Dwarven Fortress of Skarhald.Awe-inspiring! 6:09 is an incredible view on Mountains ,Lake and statue, Speaking of statues , You will be surprised to witness the greatest one ever fashioned. Time stands still in the Iron hills! Tis because you shall be stunned,shocked and amazed by Dwarven Iron-will to fashion Near-Impossible objects of Stone. I've seen it By Durin's beard, The Ice fortress ~ There and back again, You were right it could equal the epicness and splendour of Khazad Dum in certain aspects, I am over-whelmed. The new updates are always super thrilling for me personally and the next update might the most epic ever, Speaking strictly about the update. I never knew I'll say those words after Legacy of the Necromancer.Tis nothing yet, I am anticipating your next videos. My only complain is the repetition of the same models of certain creatures which are now used since very early days of Vanilla or Moria. They might also decrease the amount of Dragon bones or amount of foes in notable "hot" spots. Vanya Sulie

Tis what I wrote on his YT. Thanks kindly SSG. I have nothing but words of praise, You've done it again.

Fare-thee-well my Dwarf friends,May thy beards never grow white and withered!

[yafga]

By Durin's Beard!

Of Grey Mountains and Withered Heath The First impressions!

Spoliers: Please peer at Andang's Official You-Tube channel for the latest video ~ THE GREY MOUNTAINS - THE WITHERED HEATH - LOTRO Update 23 Beta https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc-7ENdLN5o


By Vana,Orome and High Lords of Arda, The Northern Kingdoms of the Naugrum,Drakes,Wights,Outstand ing world Design,Immersion I can feel it already!. I knew it, It took me less than a minute. I love the names of the fortresses. Tis a mixture of Ice Bay of Forochel,Misty Mountains and Khazad-Dum."Glimmer-Deep" reminded me on the Sivertine Lodges. It seems they are recycling the particular statues and items for decade ago.If you pay close attention, rail road,Dragonets,crystals and similar Architecture design. Thanks kindly for very early Sneak Peak. I am very fond of the Frozen places and I do love dwarves. Tis a perfect region for me to battle against Ancient foes of the Eldar and aid the Durin's Folk! The rest of the map as well, Design in general, effects, climate, the Landscape in whole ~ Marvellous.The new dwarven skins are of the excellent design. The moment which captured my attention was the sight of the Enormous Dragon Bones and Dwarven Fortress of Skarhald.Awe-inspiring! 6:09 is an incredible view on Mountains ,Lake and statue, Speaking of statues , You will be surprised to witness the greatest one ever fashioned. Time stands still in the Iron hills! Tis because you shall be stunned,shocked and amazed by Dwarven Iron-will to fashion Near-Impossible objects of Stone. I've seen it By Durin's beard, The Ice fortress ~ There and back again, You were right it could equal the epicness and splendour of Khazad Dum in certain aspects, I am over-whelmed. The new updates are always super thrilling for me personally and the next update might the most epic ever, Speaking strictly about the update. I never knew I'll say those words after Legacy of the Necromancer.Tis nothing yet, I am anticipating your next videos. My only complain is the repetition of the same models of certain creatures which are now used since very early days of Vanilla or Moria. They might also decrease the amount of Dragon bones or amount of foes in notable "hot" spots. Vanya Sulie

Tis what I wrote on his YT. Thanks kindly SSG. I have nothing but words of praise, You've done it again.

Fare-thee-well my Dwarf friends,May thy beards never grow white and withered!

Please, this is a feedback thread.. not promote another YouTube channel and praise their content in a 1000 words post. You could have posted this elsewhere or in your own thread or something. But at least, nice to see they did something good, I will not spend a single $$ on this update. I will buy the region for L.P. run the solo content and go back to ESO. Because of this p2w update.

[Jerguc]

GL HF all , keep supporting pay to win.


https://imgur.com/a/RiCNrLw

PS. That description on ''Hero's'' lootbox almost killed me.

This is the reason people don't want to play the game anymore. Enough with these stupid lootboxes, if you guys can't figure a better way to make us give you money then I'm sorry but you're clearly in the wrong bussiness. This is just insane, I mean what was wrong with the way we were able to obtain gear back when throne raid was the endgame. You're digging your own grave with these lootboxes and the store. I don't mind it being around, just don't force it down our throats like you do now.
The landscape, hands down is beautiful, but other stuff unfortunately overshadows it in a bad way.

[Jerguc]

I think it's time for those with any priority on gameplay integrity to leave LOTRO to be honest. I realize that's not what most LOTRO players are focused on, but those who are at endgame would likely be much more satisfied playing another game.

Agree. I just recently came back to find out that nothing changed since the moment mordor was released. These lootboxes just defeat the feeling of achievement. What's the point of running group content if you can pretty much buy yourself the best gear with real money?
And before anyone says that I can leave the game again if I don't like it, I don't play any other MMO than LOTRO, I love this game, been playing it for almost 10 years. And it's sad to think where we are at the moment. Having to rely on lootboxes and the store so that SSG gets enough money to continue the development of the game.

[Ronimli]

yes i am on a mac, the br client worked the first time i downloaded it but this time, just get the error.

Getting the exact same error on my mac, can't give feedback if you won't even allow me to log in ssg

[Kander]

This is the reason people don't want to play the game anymore. Enough with these stupid lootboxes, if you guys can't figure a better way to make us give you money then I'm sorry but you're clearly in the wrong bussiness. This is just insane, I mean what was wrong with the way we were able to obtain gear back when throne raid was the endgame. You're digging your own grave with these lootboxes and the store. I don't mind it being around, just don't force it down our throats like you do now.
The landscape, hands down is beautiful, but other stuff unfortunately overshadows it in a bad way.

When they first introduced gear into lootboxes I thought "it is bad idea, but I can live with it" when they removed all sources of getting ashes apart from boxes and put a daily lock on the only instance we had to farm ashes (CoS) I just thought, ok, they're basically saying: "give us your money or we will force you to do it if you want to gear up", and that was plain bad.
Basically, want boxes for p2w people who spend real money to gear up in 1 day... that's a bad business decision but don't make them mandatory. Bring back Osgiliath/Throne gear system, you want to enforce using ashes, fine, change the currency obtained in instances to ashes but don't force players to pay real money to get stuff in game, that'll only lure players out of the game, half of all the players throne brought back are already gone due to mordor system, learn from your mistakes, I'm pretty sure you can get the activity numbers on servers and compare them to 1 year ago and find out this game is losing players with every bad decision you make.
Simply stop Pay to Win, does not work, only make games last for few months and then close because of the lack of players.

[Ronimli]

Agree. I just recently came back to find out that nothing changed since the moment mordor was released. These lootboxes just defeat the feeling of achievement. What's the point of running group content if you can pretty much buy yourself the best gear with real money?
And before anyone says that I can leave the game again if I don't like it, I don't play any other MMO than LOTRO, I love this game, been playing it for almost 10 years. And it's sad to think where we are at the moment. Having to rely on lootboxes and the store so that SSG gets enough money to continue the development of the game.

I agree with you that it's ####ty what their doing but if the pattern from mordor keeps up it isn't the raiders that are being hurt. In Mordor 337 items had a nihil chance of dropping from the lootboxes, but running the t2c raid was still worth doing to unlock the BiS items, who had both a higher ilvl and came with a set bonus. What they are doing instead is killing any and all progression a casual could experience while gearing up.

Unlike Rohan and Gondor there isn't a way to for those not interested in raiding to have their own thing to work towards gearwise. Raiders will complain but their getting the much better side of the deal imho by having something to work towards instead of it being in a lootbox. (This is all assuming they stick to their previous patern, since it was only 'very profitable' they might make the system even more p2w to squeeze out the very last drop, wouldn't put it past them.)

[miriadel]

thanks for adding a "destroy all" button to the pending loot. It was long overdue. Hopefully it will work by beta 2, but just the fact that it's there is a nice QoL feature. Not happy that there's 2, not 1 but 2 new lootboxes, surely you can come up with engaging ways for your players to play the content and actually earn things through play, not a gamble

[Hythel45]

Kaz, there are 0, zilch, nada, no loot boxes in DDO. You can buy a Otto's box from the store, but it always has the same items in it.

I came back to lotro only recently, played for some time got bored and went back to playing DDO. There are stat tomes and skill tomes you can buy in the store, but that has limits as well. TBH I think it's the better of the 2 games, more flexibility in classes, races, prestige enhancements, although it's not open world like lotro.

5 premium classes, 9 f2p classes, prices for quest packs are better overall, xpacs are priced roughly the same. They seem to do better with DDO than with lotro IMO.

[Jerguc]

I agree with you that it's ####ty what their doing but if the pattern from mordor keeps up it isn't the raiders that are being hurt. In Mordor 337 items had a nihil chance of dropping from the lootboxes, but running the t2c raid was still worth doing to unlock the BiS items, who had both a higher ilvl and came with a set bonus. What they are doing instead is killing any and all progression a casual could experience while gearing up.

Unlike Rohan and Gondor there isn't a way to for those not interested in raiding to have their own thing to work towards gearwise. Raiders will complain but their getting the much better side of the deal imho by having something to work towards instead of it being in a lootbox. (This is all assuming they stick to their previous patern, since it was only 'very profitable' they might make the system even more p2w to squeeze out the very last drop, wouldn't put it past them.)

I agree, but I was talking in general and for everyone. This p2w affects all of us. Casuals, raiders and pvp players. It's just stupid and it encourages laziness.
We'll see, if they don't back of with this system I only see more people leaving in the coming months. And plenty have already left.

[joshuacgordon]

Calling it P2W is a little misleading. You can't really "win" LOTRO. It's pay-for-convenience. That's what the slayer deed accelerators and the like are too. They make it easier to get where you want to be.

Having said that, though, I certainly agree that the Mordor loot box gearing is dumb. I've never been one to go raiding for the best gear because I know that the next expansion will have quest gear that's pretty comparable, if not better. So, I don't bother with the loot boxes unless I happen to have a key. Otherwise I trash em or sell em (for the top level ones). If people would stop buying keys, then SSG would find another way to get their money. Realistically, though, micro-transactions are the reality of making money with MMOs. I just wish they would limit it to quality of life (premium wallet) improvements, deed tomes, cosmetics, and mounts like they said it would be when the store first came out.

But you can always farm LP by starting new toons, blitzing through the 3 starter zones, and deleting them (rinse repeat)!

[Vanyaerunanethiel]

Kudos to the world building. The landscape is once again very nicely done

night time sigh...

By Aratar. As I was on magic legs empty floating around.I want to jump into and enter my Secondary world. Unbelievable map. Colorful, Vivacious! Impossibly Detailed,Gorgeous,extraordinar ily gorgeous!! I had no knowledge! It struck me up suddenly! A very pleasant surprise The forests,mountains,Sea,Hills,St yle! Rivers and all the little bits and pieces!

They've added notable points of interest such are Ancient Cites,Major Locations,Celondim,Fornost one of the examples. I am literally utterly overwhelmed by passion ,beauty and Magnificence. One can truly grasp the vastness and the size Eriador For there are indeed many views to expand the Eriador eventually in the near future!

[Joedangod]

Worth noting that a level cap raise like this would be the ideal time to implement a cap to trait points. Not adding it will of course allow for the class balance of this game to remain a total mess.

[simsim98]

If you guys keep adding these lootboxes, the game will fail miserably. Sure, these lootboxes will generate revenue but it won't last. Players will get bored within 2 weeks and quit. Please bring back the gearing system in Throne, server population was booming at that time. With these lootboxes, the game feels like a ghost town. I have been playing this game for 7 years and I love this game please don't force me to go play a different MMO because of these lootboxes and the dwindling server population. One advice, all you have to do to revive this game and generate revenue to sustain your business, you have to hype up the game with trailers and more stuff to do in game than just adding a lazy and p2w gearing system like lootboxes. SSG please take this seriously. This is your last chance to pull the server poulation up. It's already pretty low after the introduction of the failed Mordor's instance cluster.

[Decrepify]

Calling it P2W is a little misleading. You can't really "win" LOTRO. It's pay-for-convenience. That's what the slayer deed accelerators and the like are too. They make it easier to get where you want to be.

That's some real denial of facts.

[BotLike]

Did some further digging today , found a way to barter items from the keeper of mysteries and i got more bad news , some neutral news and some good news.

So i'll start with the good news cause we need it more.

1) Apparently they intend to add essence crafting options in future builds. You'll see in the description of the good essences in the pic below why.
2) The changes in stat caps and newly added dimishing returns can lead to some very very interesting builds , forget about capping everything this time , for good , even in later updates. For example , you need around 199k rating to cap heavy armour mitigations in t2 content. ( including t2 mitigation penetration buff )
A guardian for example , must spend all his essence slots into capping tactical mitigation ( if he chooses so ) and i am not sure he can get both mits capped with current BIS gear , with personal buffs at least.
3) The essences are bound to account.

Bad news

1) The teal gear from the ash vendor is best in slot. Better than anything the Rep NPC or crafting awards.
Only exception can be teal boots shown below from Rep NPC , those are the same as the Ash version , assuming the ash vendor doesn't give you a better item level than the default.
2) The new crafting tier is obviously made very hastily. 0 depth , almost 0 default recipes ,
mostly rep vendor recipes available only , that are not really worth making in the first place , since ash gear is better lol.


Neutral news

1)Light of earendil seems like its abandoned. Until Minas Morgul at least....
2)The new area rep tokens have a cap for some naughty reason i can't think of.

Bugs

1)The boxes from abyss raid ( gear , offhands etc ) scale their contents to level 120.
2)The motes of enchantment awarded from the tavern or transfered over from live cannot be used to barter with keeper of mysteries. Still usable for older vendors , like abyss.

[Anárion_Ancalimë]

By Aratar. As I was on magic legs empty floating around.I want to jump into and enter my Secondary world. Unbelievable map. Colorful, Vivacious! Impossibly Detailed,Gorgeous,extraordinar ily gorgeous!! I had no knowledge! It struck me up suddenly! A very pleasant surprise The forests,mountains,Sea,Hills,St yle! Rivers and all the little bits and pieces!

They've added notable points of interest such are Ancient Cites,Major Locations,Celondim,Fornost one of the examples. I am literally utterly overwhelmed by passion ,beauty and Magnificence. One can truly grasp the vastness and the size Eriador For there are indeed many views to expand the Eriador eventually in the near future!

Okay. You've proven your point. You like the updated map and the landscape. But this is on the verge of derailing a thread where serious concerns about the game are being discussed. Just stop please.

[joshuacgordon]

That's some real denial of facts.

Oh? To what facts do you refer?

Here's my list of facts:

1. You can't "win" LoTRO.
2. You can get better gear than you have now, or there will be better gear to get in the next update/xpac.
3. You can now "buy" that gear by opening loot boxes.

Ergo, it is NOT pay to win. It is, AT BEST, pay-to-get-the-best-gear-today-and-then-do-it-all-again-soon.

[Lord.Funk]

This is the reason people don't want to play the game anymore. Enough with these stupid lootboxes, if you guys can't figure a better way to make us give you money then I'm sorry but you're clearly in the wrong bussiness.

Yeah, this is what perplexes me. You have people willing to buy cosmetics, even for war-steeds, even if they are useless for combat (not useless but few likes fighting off a war-steed, some do), as well as buy other cosmetics. You have threads with people requesting new cosmetics. Some such thread have been ignored for years. Clearly people want that and are willing to pay for it. As long as they are listed, price and item, not hidden in some lottery lootboxes. Still they insist on adding these lootboxes instead with items, even cosmetics in them, when people rather buy them straight up and transparent.

No, I'm not saying those that enjoys cosmetics (I'm one of those) should pay/finance the whole game for everyone else. There should still be alot of new gear looks and cosmetics added to be earned in-game as well of course. Still You can have a mix, some in game, some in store. I'm fine with that. I can buy a war-steed cosmetics or other cosmetic at times. What I will never buy are keys for lootboxes, as I have no way of knowing what i will get or how mcuh it will cost me in the end if or I ever get the item I wanted. Lately they have been adding a few new comsetics to the store but more so in lootboxes.

I would even buy some of the more exclusive expansion packs if they bought them back. Legendary editions etc with exclusive cosmetics in them, but not lootbox keys.

I mean I get it, they are a business, not a charity. They have people who work for them that needs and deserves to get paid. They need to make a profit. I have no issue with that. It is HOW You chose to earn a profit I have an issue with. Lootboxes is not the "good" way.

You're digging your own grave with these lootboxes and the store. I don't mind it being around, just don't force it down our throats like you do now.

Exactly. Short term profits (maybe), for long term dragged out death of a game (for sure). Instead of a sustainable business model with the store and no lootboxes. Were we as customer can go shopping when we so desire an feel it is our choice. A store that gets filled with new cosmetics or convenience items regularly, like more bank storage, new war-steed cosmetics etc. Mixed with some new cosmetics also being added within the game. After all that's an incentive to some to play certain content to be able to attain those.

The landscape, hands down is beautiful, but other stuff unfortunately overshadows it in a bad way.

I also agree on this. Landscape is amazing considering the game is 11 years old.

It makes it even weirder how that they can let the wonderful work, that some devs put in, get overshadowed by these lootboxes. Who makes these decisons ??? Are they intent on ruining the work for the other devs that cearly puts alot of love into their design ??? I enjoy taking screenshots but that will not last me for a long time after each new expansion. As for gameplay, leveling, gearing etc, it is a pain since Mordor. Feels more like self torture than fun. Having to complete whole areas, including deeds and stuff just to get to end and do daileis for some slivers to get some lootbox keys. Do CoS and maybe get 0 ashable gear drop or possibly one piece (60 ash) and then wait another day before one can try again. Wham Bam, No Thank You ma'am. I can't even find the will to take alts through the new content since Mordor. Even once is torture and I still haven't gotten to the end.

[Decrepify]

1. You can't "win" LoTRO..

What do you define as winning? Managing to play a lute in South Bree? Doing a round of Hobnanigans? Or acquiring hard-to-obtain gear by punching your CC number and gerting lucky? It's predatory P2W.

2. You can get better gear than you have now, or there will be better gear to get in the next update.

Essences Botlike shown appear to be best in slot. And they're gated behind ash. And ash is being funneled through daily locks, inciting people to buy keys. Convinience is one thig, but deliberately designing content to squeeze out money out of gameplay is wrong. Similar thing can be seen on pretty much any phone game.

3. You can now "buy" that gear by opening loot boxes

Yes. That is the point. But pushing it into peoples faces to do it is wrong.

Ergo, it is NOT pay to win.

Ergo, reconsider.

It is, AT BEST, pay-to-get-the-best-gear-today-and-then-do-it-all-again-soon.

Which is P2W. And then you do it again.
I just hope they one day make PVP-only sets and you cannot transfer PVE gear to it, then I wouldn't care anymore.