Bullroarer Update 23 (Build #1) - Preview and General Feedback

[MAWorking]

Maybe it's just me, but if you 'buy' the best gear with real money, then what's even the point of playing at all? You achieved nothing and your wallet is empty.

Devils advocate: Some value time over money.
They want to do a high level run with their friends but can't grind everyday.

Achievement is enjoying play with friends... not gear.

[Skyfoot]

Achievement is enjoying play with friends... not gear.

If gear isn't part of the "achievement" then remove it from the loot-boxes. Hell, remove it from the game. Oh wait...

[sapienze]

Devils advocate: Some value time over money.
They want to do a high level run with their friends but can't grind everyday.

Achievement is enjoying play with friends... not gear.

Exactly and if your friends are really friends then they have no mind of the stature of your gear because eventually everyone will be geared.

Lesser gear will always suffice. This idea of removing a chance to fail and still call it a challenge is not the kind of game I want to play or the kind of players I want in my raid.

When half a raid gets one shotted that's when I am at my best as a healer. No net and accepting the outcome.

[Ethrildar]

I hope we will see daily locks from 3/6man instances removed then, if you take our feedbacks to heart.

+1

Please remove locks from 3-6man instances, it's so filthy-obvious that you're just trying to push people into buying lootboxes and keys in order to make gearing a quicker process than weeks/months of grind (to then immediately be replaced by the next micro-update adding a ton of new, slightly better but still "must have" gear).

The crafted ones certainly haven't kept up with our morale pools, and make almost no noticeable difference in group content, so they need to be boosted, without question. In fact, a wider look should be taken at a variety of morale restores, including the Race of Man heal, as 2-3k is nothing when some characters have over 250k morale.

There should be no morale potion over 25% in the game, crafted/purchaseable ones should be 20-25% and the 70% ones should be struck from the update entirely, what an absolute joke. I disagree about how useful the current iteration of 2k morale potions are, as you say they make "almost no noticeable difference", I would say that's an incredible understatement, a 2k potion on a character with 80-300k morale is completely negligible.

[Passerby]

TL;DR -- Don't freak at the numbers; for a non-DPS class, it feels MUCH better so far.

I don't play on BR as frequently as I like, but I did hop on to check it out today for a bit -- specifically to see how stat changes looked, and how melee combat against L115 overland mobs felt. My main character is a L115 Guardian, Blue/Yellow, solo (haven't raided since the level cap was 50 ... ) but with reasonably good gear.

I left my L.I.s the same (didn't re-max-out), and used the same rotation in combat. I didn't level-up to 120 -- I wanted apples-to-apples.

Morale: 90,419 ===> 82,399
Power: 5,874
Armour: 86,817 ===> 92,011
Might: 12,901 ===> 11,702
Agility: 651
Vitality: 16,901 ===> 15,297
Will: 400
Fate: 2,197 ===> 2,046
Crit Rating: 29,051 (14.5%, 6.9%, 18.7%) ===> 22,157 (11.7%, 4.8%, 40.2%)
Finesse: 62,558 (14.9%) ===> 14,312 (20.8%)
Phys Mast: 169,772 (312.3%) ===> 70,638 (171.8%)
Tac Mast: 105,905 (200.7%) ===> 12,799 (43.3%)
Resistance: 47,169 (23.2%) ===> 30,710 (30.7%)
Crit Def: 55,710 (57.0% + 10%) ===> 48,099 (62.0% + 10%)
Block: 71,758 (18.0%, 26.3%, 51.1%) ===> 65,368 (16.5%, 31.5%, 40.4%)
Parry: 50,799 (12.0%, 19.6%, 45.1%) ===> 50,150 (10.3%, 26.2%, 34.6%)
Evade: 11,227 (5.1%, 6.3%, 26.7%) ===> 11,898 (4.1%, 11.2%, 19.2%)
Phys Mit: 87,913 (61.0%, 26.4%) ===> 93,107 (60.8%, 21.9%)
Tac Mit: 59,138 (55.3%) ===> 58,406 (47.0%)

Note: Base stats on gear as well as stats on Essences decreased

Sweeping Cut: 6,792-10,507 ===> 4,477-6,925
War-Chant: 15,211-22,261 ===> 10,026-14,673

Erebor - Standard L115 mobs: ~89,000 Health ===> 50,000 Health
Average time to kill (n=10): 20.2s ===> 10.0s

After factoring for decrease in Health, incoming damage was roughly the same pre-/post- (for on-level, standard overland mobs).

I hope to have time to try out my capped Minstrel and Hunter later this week -- and if I do, I'll post here. I also aim to try signature and elite mobs to compare kill times (pre-/post-update)

[Snoopy]

Maybe it's just me, but if you 'buy' the best gear with real money, then what's even the point of playing at all?

By buying the gear early it allows me to do the landscape quests easier. Instead of having to push 18 buttons and have to kite to kill a mob maybe I now only have to push 4 can move on with my life quicker. It doesn't necessarily mitigate my ability to play harder content but just allows me to progress my questing faster. Also I don't necessarily see gaining the gear as an achievement since everyone can get the same exact gear eventually with time. I see gaining landscape gear it more as a chore.

Devils advocate: Some value time over money.
They want to do a high level run with their friends but can't grind everyday.

Achievement is enjoying play with friends... not gear.

That's exactly right. I have a finite time I can play and value my time doing other things I actually enjoy. All the loot box gear is to me is just another means to an end. Some earn it with time while others get it right away.

[Fraushgrish2]

By buying the gear early it allows me to do the landscape quests easier. Instead of having to push 18 buttons and have to kite to kill a mob maybe I now only have to push 4 can move on with my life quicker. It doesn't necessarily mitigate my ability to play harder content but just allows me to progress my questing faster. Also I don't necessarily see gaining the gear as an achievement since everyone can get the same exact gear eventually with time. I see gaining landscape gear it more as a chore.

Have you even tried doing quest in the iron hills rn? its not hard its pretty easy tbh since regular people have 160% mastry which is almost close to cap

That's exactly right. I have a finite time I can play and value my time doing other things I actually enjoy. All the loot box gear is to me is just another means to an end. Some earn it with time while others get it right away.

whats the point of even attempting to earn the loot when someone can just buy it? Its redicoulous that people actually want this game to be pay to win i dont get it, getting gear is wining in this game, you paying to get gear pay to win
The only point of this game and the end game grind is to get BiS gear, whats the point of grinding if one can just buy it? The raiding community in lotro was already shattered with mordor, if all these things go live i promise you that the raiding community will die(Arkenstone one of the most if not the most populated US server who had almost 10-12 raiding kins during throne is barely down to 3)

[MAWorking]

whats the point of even attempting to earn the loot when someone can just buy it? Its redicoulous that people actually want this game to be pay to win i dont get it, getting gear is wining in this game, you paying to get gear pay to win
The only point of this game and the end game grind is to get BiS gear, whats the point of grinding if one can just buy it? The raiding community in lotro was already shattered with mordor, if all these things go live i promise you that the raiding community will die(Arkenstone one of the most if not the most populated US server who had almost 10-12 raiding kins during throne is barely down to 3)

How is it winning if someone buys gear and you dont? Why does it bother you sooooo much that someone does this?
Play the game the way you want to play it. Don't inspect every player you run into and you would never know they have better gear.

I do not understand the jealousy of these statemeents. Don't like it... don't do it. *shrug*

[Knight.]

Hi there!

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I’m here to talk a little about the % based potions. These potions came about from a conversation I had on the forums about Hobbit Presents (link here) One of the things discussed was how much the rejuvenation potion was disliked. I worked with the team for way to make them more useful. The current iteration of these potions is our first pass. They will not be lockbox only and will be replacing the Hobbit Present's rejuvenation potion as well as possibly showing up in other places.

That being said, we also know that some of our players love crafting. I have spoken with Vastin and we are in agreement that the crafted potion should be improved. We will be making another pass on the potions before they go live.

Thank you. Please keep letting us know your thoughts, we are all reading these and taking your feedback to heart.

Thank you for the update.
Please make crafted potions % based and keep the % heals and associated cool downs for all morale restore potions sensible.

[Macdui]

I still don't follow your logic though. Help me understand.

So day 1 I get the best current available gear, I play the landscape quests at an easier pace since I have decent gear, and then once I'm done questing I don't have to do the dailies to get the best current gear. I have played my character from level 1-115 do I know how to play my toon. If I choose to run instances I will be prepared gear wise. What am I missing?

The currently available... In Mordor the currently available changed with each passing month. Those that did the grind route spent their coin and resources only for another tier to arrive and more resources to grind. Those that spent cash had the option to spend more cash each month.

Turbine just weren't good enough custodians of the IP so had to go to the f2p model. Why do we have this small "part time" team? Because the model bled players frustrated at what was delivered each update. They settled on being a niche game just replacing those customers who left. They don't care if you and I are playing just so long as we are replaced if we decide not too. How good could the game be if it hadn't bleed all those subs? Thing is they do some things great but it's spoilt by others' contributions. They can make great looking landscapes and internal spaces but then rush implementing it's interface with the players like they don't even know the game.

Mac

[MAWorking]

Observations:
Stat scaling seems logical, but scaling the mobs down in this update makes it rather easy. Too easy. (Hunter, well geared and at 115)

Clear the inventory, lots of new items to learn and stack up. (i enjoy this)
So nice to see the LIs growing again.

Still need to learn and understand ash moto (or whatever the name is) and how we come by it. Gorgoroth seems to drop the ash/moto but not the higher end gear (which I suspect is on purpose).
Does the new box unlock with the same black key?

LIs have 5 unlocks, 2 that can be unlocked - How do any of them unlock? scrolls, gems etc?

Got alot to get through, and that is what an expansion is suppose to do! Only going to get my feet wet, not deep dive. Ill leave that for launch.


Now to ponder price and offerings.

[Snoopy]

whats the point of even attempting to earn the loot when someone can just buy it? Its redicoulous that people actually want this game to be pay to win i dont get it, getting gear is wining in this game, you paying to get gear pay to win
The only point of this game and the end game grind is to get BiS gear, whats the point of grinding if one can just buy it? The raiding community in lotro was already shattered with mordor, if all these things go live i promise you that the raiding community will die(Arkenstone one of the most if not the most populated US server who had almost 10-12 raiding kins during throne is barely down to 3)

To me "Winning the game" is completing the area (explorer, slayer, and questing deeds) and not necessarily gaining the gear. Acquiring the gear is more of a byproduct of completing the area to me rather than a goal. That's one of the reasons why buying my gear doesn't bother me. As for the raiding community I think they need to have their own gear to grind after. I don't remember when they introduced it but I like the way the Lotro team did it when the raiding gear was the same as the landscape gear however the gear dropped from raids had set bonuses. That was a win/win in my opinion.

The currently available... In Mordor the currently available changed with each passing month. Those that did the grind route spent their coin and resources only for another tier to arrive and more resources to grind. Those that spent cash had the option to spend more cash each month.

Mac

I do agree with you here. Mordor gear was like hitting a moving target. That was a pain.

[Lord.Funk]

People will complain about anything.
Only seeing a few things at this point and will note.

Pay to win rants are simply ridiculous. Stop comparing yourself to others. Play the game at your pace. Grind out to get the gear ya want.
Who cares if little Joey got all the shiney stuff on day 1.... it does not effect my game what so ever.

Play at your own pace.

I think you need to see a docter/psygologist.

You cleary don't understand what you are saying and I kindly ask you to stop writing things you have no knowledge about.

Thanks!

While I also totally disagree with MAWorking on this, I still think such personal attacks and insults are totally unnecessary. To tell someone to go see a doctor/psychologist/psychiatrist and implying that they might have some physical or mental issues just because they have another opinion is way out of line.

Sure disagree, argue the topic, but please don't resort to such low methods. It does not win an arguemnt in my book. It only tips me over in favour of listeing to MAWorkings arguments, even if I disagree with his opinions.

MAWorking have just as much right as me, You or anyone else to voice and share his/her opinion no matter if I, You or others might disagree with that opinion.

I'm really sick and tired of how polarized things have become both in society but also that it has to spread into here. Where people who have different opinions call each other insulting names, ridiciule each other or even imply they have medical issues or whatever. This is a game, a hobby and entertainment and a place to get away from every day stress, work etc. Not a place to bring such stuff into. Please leave that as You check into the forums or the game. Thank You !!!

[Macdui]

These new morale and power pot stats are a first pass and you'll look at crafted pots?


Why is it that so many "first" passes are so off the mark? I'd guess that dev forum logins give a hint at their game logins.

We've had a year of silence over the pathetic crafted pots (not to mention all the other anomalies with T11 crafting) and you are only now thinking to look at the stats?


I did briefly log onto BR, noticed no shield recipe in either T11 or T12. A year of failure in the loot box lottery to get a decent shield, do I have another year of the same to look forward to?

Mac

[Nouri]

I have a new PC with no existing BR client to update. Anyone know where an install link could be found?

[Fraushgrish2]

Im honestly fine with gear in lootboxes just keep main currency (like ash) and BiS gear out of it. Im sure if they take the cosmetics off the ash barter and put them purely in looboxes they would make good money from that still and ragain a large portion of theyre player base

[Lord.Funk]

Im honestly fine with gear in lootboxes just keep main currency (like ash) and BiS gear out of it. Im sure if they take the cosmetics off the ash barter and put them purely in looboxes they would make good money from that still and ragain a large portion of theyre player base

Why should those that enjoy toying around with how their character looks (on top of gear stats) be the ones that have to be forced to gamble and hope to get the cosmetic they desire ??? No, totally no. Remove lootboxes all together instead. If sell cosmetics then list them in store, price and item listed. Not hidden behind some lottery/slot machine mechanics. Also of course have some cosmetics in game. It is an incentive for many to run certain content to be abe to get certain cosmetics. Be it skin on a gear item or pure cosmetics. Remove that and You remove the incentive. Just look at the meta steed. People ran that content and the whole deed to get it. Even if I find that one ugly, others found incentive in that. Same goes for a bow that drops is Osgiliath instance and other stuff. Do NOT put anything in lootboxes. Do not force anyone to gamble. Remove lootboxes from games.

[XbammyX]

How is it winning if someone buys gear and you dont?

If I simply bought an Olympic Gold Medal and never once participated in an event, have I actually earned anything?

Why does it bother you sooooo much that someone does this?

Gear is the reward for putting in effort. A person who buys gear has exerted no meaningful effort. See above.

Don't inspect every player you run into and you would never know they have better gear.

There are more ways to determine if another player has better gear than inspection.

I do not understand the jealousy of these statemeents.

The reason you don't understand the jealousy of his statements is because the statements do not contain envy, instead they display resentment towards SSG for creating a system whereby people can obtain a reward by inputting card details rather than by earning the reward. Casuals wouldn't know this but there is a very competitive sector of this community that plans on competing to be the first people to clear the new raid. If you allow people to purchase gear then you've essentially allowed them to pay for a competitive advantage in a competitive environment. I don't think LeBron James would be very happy if it were uncovered that his competitive rivals had paid the game administrators for an advantage before the competition began, would he?

[MAWorking]

I have a new PC with no existing BR client to update. Anyone know where an install link could be found?

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...DOWNLOAD-LINKS. There ya go.

[Nouri]

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...DOWNLOAD-LINKS. There ya go.

Thanks! I came across this link earlier, but I was hesitant to use it since it looked like an outdated link with Turbine's name in it. Cheers... see you in beta!

[Fraushgrish2]

Why should those that enjoy toying around with how their character looks (on top of gear stats) be the ones that have to be forced to gamble and hope to get the cosmetic they desire ??? No, totally no. Remove lootboxes all together instead. If sell cosmetics then list them in store, price and item listed. Not hidden behind some lottery/slot machine mechanics. Also of course have some cosmetics in game. It is an incentive for many to run certain content to be abe to get certain cosmetics. Be it skin on a gear item or pure cosmetics. Remove that and You remove the incentive. Just look at the meta steed. People ran that content and the whole deed to get it. Even if I find that one ugly, others found incentive in that. Same goes for a bow that drops is Osgiliath instance and other stuff. Do NOT put anything in lootboxes. Do not force anyone to gamble. Remove lootboxes from games.

so we kinda agree? put all cosmetics in the lootboxes or in the store and keep BiS and main currency out of it

[Jerguc]

By buying the gear early it allows me to do the landscape quests easier. Instead of having to push 18 buttons and have to kite to kill a mob maybe I now only have to push 4 can move on with my life quicker. It doesn't necessarily mitigate my ability to play harder content but just allows me to progress my questing faster. Also I don't necessarily see gaining the gear as an achievement since everyone can get the same exact gear eventually with time. I see gaining landscape gear it more as a chore.



That's exactly right. I have a finite time I can play and value my time doing other things I actually enjoy. All the loot box gear is to me is just another means to an end. Some earn it with time while others get it right away.

While I completely disagree with you, I still respect your opinion. In any case I wish that lootboxes never existed, or in this case, if they absolutely have to be around, should only be for other things like cosmetics, housing and other stuff that doesn't affect gameplay as much as they do now.

But the one thing that you can not dispute is the dwindling number of players. And if this hits live as it is now, we can expect even more to leave. Basicaly Helm's Deep all over again, but this time not as many people will stay around.
And I'm not even talking BS here, back when 105 was the lvl cap the kin I was in was very active, we ran throne raid every week and we had a blast. But after the mordor instance cluster and now with the northern strongholds update, people just lost interest in the game. Most of the time I'm alone logging in and playing.

[Lord.Funk]

As unhappy as I am with the whole lootbox continuation I would also like to point out that as usual the world designers have really outdone themselves with the design of The Iron Hills.

You can see it all in this video from Andang.



The Dwarven statue (mount rushmore, dwarven style) at the beginning of the video, as well as the Dwarven stronghold, Jarnfast (järn meaning iron), at 3:12 just looks amazing.

While the dwaren Iron Hill armours added on NPC's are not really to my liking, it is still nice to see some new dwarven style armour added. Hopefully there will be more styles added that us as player can wear.

Personally I was hoping already with Erebor for dwarven armour more in this style:

[Lord.Funk]

And just look at the helmet that can even have parts added to protect the throat and at least a part of those precious beards from dragons fire.



Oh please give me this, my preciousss.

[Snoopy]

If I simply bought an Olympic Gold Medal and never once participated in an event, have I actually earned anything?



Gear is the reward for putting in effort. A person who buys gear has exerted no meaningful effort. See above.

The reason you don't understand the jealousy of his statements is because the statements do not contain envy, instead they display resentment towards SSG for creating a system whereby people can obtain a reward by inputting card details rather than by earning the reward. Casuals wouldn't know this but there is a very competitive sector of this community that plans on competing to be the first people to clear the new raid. If you allow people to purchase gear then you've essentially allowed them to pay for a competitive advantage in a competitive environment.

If there was gear offered in the loot boxes that was only available in raids I might agree with you. However hardcore raiders are going to be prepared one way or another by the time the raid is released. I think perhaps that is one reason they do not release the raid right away.

But the one thing that you can not dispute is the dwindling number of players. And if this hits live as it is now, we can expect even more to leave. Basicaly Helm's Deep all over again, but this time not as many people will stay around.
And I'm not even talking BS here, back when 105 was the lvl cap the kin I was in was very active, we ran throne raid every week and we had a blast. But after the mordor instance cluster and now with the northern strongholds update, people just lost interest in the game. Most of the time I'm alone logging in and playing.

I doubt it anyone will leave with this update as it stands now. From Mordor on we have been able to get good gear drops from loot boxes. If people were going to leave over loot box drops I think they would of already by now.