Bullroarer Update 23 Preview #6: Feedback Thread

[Siddharta]

@Devs also check outgoing damage in Pelennor instances (Silent Street\Harlond\Blood Serpent) and probably Osgiliath, i've got a report that mobs 1-shotting people there. As they're going to be FIs, this is strongly recommended to check.

[Fraushgrish2]

@Devs also check outgoing damage in Pelennor instances (Silent Street\Harlond\Blood Serpent) and probably Osgiliath, i've got a report that mobs 1-shotting people there. As they're going to be FIs, this is strongly recommended to check.

I only tested it on first beta but archers were hitting for 90k in DoS t2

[galrodan]

Some positive feedback on pvp;

I like the amount of damage NPC's are doing

Mulatic
R13 Reaver
Arkenstone

[Lasariel]

Good time of day!
As I've already mentioned in this thread about previous beta state (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...beta)-babyrage), RK as a DPS-class now is very weak (as a healing class it is weak as well though).

In this current beta my RK's best parse (among 30 tries) was this:



Seems about the same, except for now my mits dropped to 76k (which is 27,4%) in order to get tact mastery and crit rating almost capped, altogether with having 18% finesse.
I'm quite fine with low mits, as that's what you intended to do in this beta.

What I'm upset with is that 25-26k dps is the best you can get as an RK, having all your dps-stats capped AND also having best gear you can get in an upcoming update so far.

Yes I see, you're going to "create more space for upgrades in the cycle (instance/raid)" but with best gear (which is increadibly hard to get due to kinda random drop AND not being wanted in a fellowship due to low damage) and capped dps-stats, making 25-26k dps you will hardly even be able to run such content as an RK.
I loved my RK and I'm gonna miss it a lot since I'm 100% sure an RK won't be viable in u23 instance and raid content at all.

[CaerArianrhod]

This is the 6th Beta round and the Devs still can not fix this two issues (already mentioned in the 1st [first!] beta):

There is STILL no finesse on will gear (neither on the purple nor on the teal gear)

Can you please remove outgoing healing essences from the game? They are as useless as telling you that they are broken.

For level 120 character:

Name	Rating B#5	Contribution to OH* - B#5	Rating B#6	Contribution to OH* - B#6
Weak Mithrin Essence of Healing	9249	3.6%	7147	2.8%
Weak Mithrin Essence of Tactical Mastery	12487	4.8%	9649	3.8%
Mithrin Essence of Healing	10268	4%	7934	3.1%
Mithrin Essence of Tactical Mastery	13861	5.3%	10711	4.2%

*) OH measured at a given point without calculating diminishing return (i used one essence, looked at the contribution to OH, then removed the essence and used the next one)

[CaerArianrhod]

Shop Scrolls like: Finesse, Morale, Tact. Mit. & Phys. Mit. and Potions (Morale/Power) are laughable at level 120. They are still not scaling in any way.

[Drizzels]

Why cant you do the solo version of the new 3/6man instances on t2?

[Knight.]

I'm ok if bosses will have more hp than it was, but not trash.

In agreement with this. Lowering our dps, while increasing mob morale for trash doesn't make things more challenging (just slower and more boring).

I seriously hope that the devs have heard our feedback loud and clear that we would like to see challenging content via interesting mechanics rather than high morale / endless trash pulls. Personally, I don’t mind longer instances as long as they are interesting and “flow” like Silent-Street and Dome of Stars.

Furthermore, the loot tables for 3 man and 6 man instances must be different (if not already) so there is incentive for the whole community to run all instances. No one wants to see another Naerband 2.0 situation where after doing it once for the deed, you avoid the 6 man and run 3 man only because it's the exact same loot for a lot less hassle.

With this in mind I’m really curious to see what T3 mechanics & loot will be in a dot update after launch....

[Ruu1989]

Good time of day!
As I've already mentioned in this thread about previous beta state (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...beta)-babyrage), RK as a DPS-class now is very weak (as a healing class it is weak as well though).

In this current beta my RK's best parse (among 30 tries) was this:

---snipped image---

Seems about the same, except for now my mits dropped to 76k (which is 27,4%) in order to get tact mastery and crit rating almost capped, altogether with having 18% finesse.
I'm quite fine with low mits, as that's what you intended to do in this beta.

What I'm upset with is that 25-26k dps is the best you can get as an RK, having all your dps-stats capped AND also having best gear you can get in an upcoming update so far.

Yes I see, you're going to "create more space for upgrades in the cycle (instance/raid)" but with best gear (which is increadibly hard to get due to kinda random drop AND not being wanted in a fellowship due to low damage) and capped dps-stats, making 25-26k dps you will hardly even be able to run such content as an RK.
I loved my RK and I'm gonna miss it a lot since I'm 100% sure an RK won't be viable in u23 instance and raid content at all.

Would be really cool if we could get a dev/Cordovan response to this.

[Belnavar]

I'm ok if bosses will have more hp than it was, but not trash.

+1

High-HP trash is just tedious. I'd much rather spend the time on the boss fight than slug through trash. Let's remember Naerband.

-Bel

[Oddessia]

Okay so Im going to beat that dead horse. Dwarf Longbeards Token cap........STILL HERE. WWWHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

Zero need for this and its a huge P-off.

Im that loyal-vip-adores-this-game-agrees-with-dev-decisions-99%-of-the-time person....but I have to be honest Im having trouble with this one. U23 hasn't released yet and Im already thinking about just skipping the gearing process altogether. Why bother questing if your token rewards (that go into an unlimited wallet) are just wasted and disappear?

To be honest, Ill never quit this game lol I just adore it too much. But things like this make me genuinely not excited for release.

-Ods

[Hephburz-2]

Good time of day!
As I've already mentioned in this thread about previous beta state (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...beta)-babyrage), RK as a DPS-class now is very weak (as a healing class it is weak as well though).

In this current beta my RK's best parse (among 30 tries) was this:



Seems about the same, except for now my mits dropped to 76k (which is 27,4%) in order to get tact mastery and crit rating almost capped, altogether with having 18% finesse.
I'm quite fine with low mits, as that's what you intended to do in this beta.

What I'm upset with is that 25-26k dps is the best you can get as an RK, having all your dps-stats capped AND also having best gear you can get in an upcoming update so far.

Yes I see, you're going to "create more space for upgrades in the cycle (instance/raid)" but with best gear (which is increadibly hard to get due to kinda random drop AND not being wanted in a fellowship due to low damage) and capped dps-stats, making 25-26k dps you will hardly even be able to run such content as an RK.
I loved my RK and I'm gonna miss it a lot since I'm 100% sure an RK won't be viable in u23 instance and raid content at all.

Please can devs comment on the state of RKs and what is being done to address this issue?

[Hephburz-2]

Okay so Im going to beat that dead horse. Dwarf Longbeards Token cap........STILL HERE. WWWHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

Zero need for this and its a huge P-off.

Im that loyal-vip-adores-this-game-agrees-with-dev-decisions-99%-of-the-time person....but I have to be honest Im having trouble with this one. U23 hasn't released yet and Im already thinking about just skipping the gearing process altogether. Why bother questing if your token rewards (that go into an unlimited wallet) are just wasted and disappear?

To be honest, Ill never quit this game lol I just adore it too much. But things like this make me genuinely not excited for release.

-Ods

Please can devs comment on their reasoning behind a landscape currency cap despite the fact the entire community resents it and wants it removed and why haven't we heard anything from the dev team about it?!

[Hephburz-2]

Doesn't seem that Creep stats changed at all in comparison to the last Beta round.

Scaled Freeps (105-115) don't do these absurd crits any more, but damage and morale still seems a bit high compared to 120 Freeps.

Though, we're still stuck with the same few issues. Everyone's probably tired of it now, but I'm gonna plug it in again. Creep potions/food/consumables still haven't scaled to 120. This is absolutely huge for PvP.
Can't remove bleeds, can't remove slows, can't remove AC (-> 0% mits), can't remove HS -inc healing debuff, can't remove dust, and so on.



Mitigations also are very low. Base mitigations of 3-8% depending on the class. A simple increase to Armour would already go a long way.
That, or merging tactical and physical mitigation corruptions into one. Since we're already pretty low on slots. (A few slots more would be cool too though)

Slotting 6 critical rating corruptions in addition to the racial bonuses nets me 25,8% critical rating and 5,2% devastate rating.
A slight increase in the rating that these corruptions provide would be nice.

Please can the devs comment as to why very basic changes to creeps / pvmp are not happening to keep them in line from update to update, do any devs even bother to log in to creep side? Such as corruption scaling, mitigations, damage etc. Do you not care at all about the PVMP community. Yes we know, you've told us its a small community, but it'll be even less players paying/playing if you continue to ignore!

[Knight.]

Captain banners are still not right...

Please can we make the following adjustment to Captain Banners before U23 goes live:

• Increase Physical Mastery value on Ironfold Standard of War to either +67,452 i.e. 3x current value on beta #6 or at least +44,968 i.e. 2x current value on beta #6
• Increase Physical Mastery value on Superior Doomfold Standard of War to +33,537 i.e. 3x current value on beta #6
• For values highlighted in red simply make them higher for Ironfold than for Doomfold.

Logic:
At 115 on live, the mastery on the standard of war (31,896) compared to mastery cap (222k) is about right~ 14% towards mastery cap
At 120 on beta, it's not even close atm. Assuming 303k mastery cap 22484/303000 = 7.4%. I would expect this to be more like 44,968 (2x current beta value) ~ 14% towards mastery cap
However to keep the formula same for 115 & 120 I would propose 67,452 (3x current value), which also gives captains a slight boost which is much needed without breaking anything ~ 22% towards mastery cap

[WhiteGoliath]

Captain banners are still not right...

Please can we make the following adjustment to Captain Banners before U23 goes live:

• Increase Physical Mastery value on Ironfold Standard of War to either +67,452 i.e. 3x current value on beta #6 or at least +44,968 i.e. 2x current value on beta #6
• Increase Physical Mastery value on Superior Doomfold Standard of War to +33,537 i.e. 3x current value on beta #6
• For values highlighted in red simply make them higher for Ironfold than for Doomfold.

Logic:
At 115 on live, the mastery on the standard of war (31,896) compared to mastery cap (222k) is about right~ 14% towards mastery cap
At 120 on beta, it's not even close atm. Assuming 303k mastery cap 22484/303000 = 7.4%. I would expect this to be more like 44,968 (2x current beta value) ~ 14% towards mastery cap
However to keep the formula same for 115 & 120 I would propose 67,452 (3x current value), which also gives captains a slight boost which is much needed without breaking anything ~ 22% towards mastery cap

Agreed with Knight, I think it should be even more than 44,968. This because captains are still lacking significant DPS and I personally think they should get a quick temporary patch for it. Just to bump up their dps value slightly, no need to make it OP.

[keztryl]

Carn Dum used to take 2+ hours, and sometimes you wouldn't finish it in one night. So, as long as its rewarding - and got good mechanics, I got no issue with the time length.

I'm not so sure more casual players will agree. Attention spans aren't what they were 10-12 years ago. Also, clearing trash is like clearing landscape mobs only it takes longer.I'm in agreement with the post above... no one wants to see a Naerband 2.0.

[Fraushgrish2]

Please can the devs comment as to why very basic changes to creeps / pvmp are not happening to keep them in line from update to update, do any devs even bother to log in to creep side? Such as corruption scaling, mitigations, damage etc. Do you not care at all about the PVMP community. Yes we know, you've told us its a small community, but it'll be even less players paying/playing if you continue to ignore!

Funny thing is the pvmp community is much bigger than the raiding community, even the casual community (like I mean the super casual I'm only here to watch festivals and play music and the "Hankergames" were the best thing of 2018 casuals). Even funnier thing is that pvmp has been garbage for a year now and there are still times on ark when there are so many creeps online that no other creeps can log on. Even funnier thing is that pvmp is literally pay to play, so SSG needs you to pay to experience garbage

[Knight.]

Might food (Erebor Ham) needs adjusted to give same as agility & will food:

[WhiteGoliath]

I'm not so sure more casual players will agree. Attention spans aren't what they were 10-12 years ago. Also, clearing trash is like clearing landscape mobs only it takes longer.I'm in agreement with the post above... no one wants to see a Naerband 2.0.

The PvMP community isn't bigger, but it's more active.

The thing is that when things go negative for pvmp, the people in PvMP will say something about it. Casuals won't bother when their class does slightly less dmg then previous update.
People also wont bother with posting some positive feedback to SSG, it's always about the problems and so PvMP seems a lot bigger now, but it truly isn't. It's that the casuals/raiding peeps dont rlly mind, as they know that SSG will scale things properly. (Except for pelennnor instances)

But ppl from PvMP shouldn't complain now, even tho I'm one of them. SSG was quite clear, they first want to parse PvE and classes before even touching PvMP.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

But ppl from PvMP shouldn't complain now

We will complain about stuff like the Eye Gouge nerf that the devs sneaked in without mentioning in the patch notes.

It would not have been revoked had the remaining PVPers not banded together against that outrageous change.

[Naranor]

What about make standard of hope for tank line (change phisical mastery to tactical mitigation)?

Devs please, cappy needs attention.

All rating buffs must be scaled. Dps need be raised x3, heal x 10. Captain with shield needs 14 essence of phisical mitigation and 22 essence of tactical mitigation to reach t2 caps.

Captain is unplayble in curent update.

[Knight.]

What about make standard of hope for tank line (change phisical mastery to tactical mitigation)?

Agreed, it should really have been this from the start (Tactical Mitigation instead of Physical Mastery on Standard of Hope).
In terms of your other findings I haven't had much time to test today, but I wonder if Guardian, Warden, Beorns, Champs running tank spec's are in a similar situation.

[WhiteGoliath]

What about make standard of hope for tank line (change phisical mastery to tactical mitigation)?

Devs please, cappy needs attention.

All rating buffs must be scaled. Dps need be raised x3, heal x 10. Captain with shield needs 14 essence of phisical mitigation and 22 essence of tactical mitigation to reach t2 caps.

Captain is unplayble in curent update.

I cant rlly agree with that, because it used to give a mitigation buffs WHEN placed down. Devs removed the old banner system and left in the old stat base for the banner.

I really hated the change, they should have kept in the old banner system, the new one is just disgusting.

Perhaps they could give this old buff back ontop of the current area pet buffs, but I prefer to see the old banner system back. The new ones have cool buffs, but I just don't like how it appears. The old banner also had a bigger area of effect.

[Naranor]

In terms of your other findings I haven't had much time to test today, but I wonder if Guardian, Warden, Beorns, Champs running tank spec's are in a similar situation.

Guardians have +10%armor and better shields, wardens and beorns - medium armor classes, champs i think will have same as captains or worse. I think class balance must be in all classes must be viable with little differences. But we have situation that difference betwean guardians and other other tanks grows with every update. I think, it's normal if guardians will be better tanks, but it must consist in better agro-management (and they have it).