Beorning Update Incoming

[ColMcStacky]

I can confirm this, at least for pre-existing Beorning gear.

Coffer of Adventurer's Armour - Medium Mighg (sic), bartered before the update:


Heavy/Medium Might helms from Thikil-Gundu t3, both received before this update: (left from Champ, right from Beorning)


The barter box is still Medium gear entirely, both giving Medium armour with medium Armour Rating. It can be compared with the same exact box from before the update here.

The Medium gear drops seem to have been converted to Heavy Armour, but retained their medium-scaled Armour Rating.

[Hildilas]

Thats not only issue with this armour change. I have chest from Thigil Gundu and it has turned to heavy armour but it's armour value is from medium armour.
Then I have 3 Abyss box armour + crafted abyss helm, box armours has changed to heavy, but again most likely armour value has stayed at medium, haven't confirm this. However crafted helm is still medium.
n.

What a mess. That is why I Said they should wait with the heavy armor until
The next lvl Cap and give the Beo a new passiv Skill on lvl 130 or whatever.

IT IS Not Like medium Armour Tank ist THAT Bad , the heal bear did Not need it and the medium might sets were done already.

[Atreius]

First of all I want to say that some of the new changes are sweet, like the faster animations on Earthen and Ferocious roar. Much better, it doesn't make me cry anymore, having to cast them.
Reduced CD on shake free, Wanderlust all good stuff.

But I am not sure about this iteration of the bear, even it if isn't THAT much different. Now I have a feeling that Rage has no point at all, bash cost barely dent into my rage generation, Trash doesn't spend but gives rage. All I have is Execute, but that has 30 sec CD.

I dunno guys, it felt better before to me, even tho you had to spend too much time building rage, and the staying power in bear was weak and probably too short. But it actually made sense to be switching from man to bear and viceversa.

What am I missing? is Execute all that rage is spent on now? the only point of switching between forms is to keep DOTS up?

Why do I have such a bad feeling now playing my bear, while I loved it till yesterday? even tho I understand that people at 120 found their performance, as whatever build, definitely lacking.





Also the new bear form stance has made the transition between forms clunkier than it was before, which felt pretty smooth strangely enough (considering the older animations of some spells which are better now like I said before).

Alsox2 losing Expose in bear form feels bad to me, it was a fast animation attack which felt pretty good weaved in between trashes and whatever, also to keep up my rage to stay in bear longer. (not sure if it made sense rotation wise, but I used it and it felt good).
Now I have one less button in bear.

[Pavlin]

Unlimited target, wide AOE taunt that you want 30 second cooldown on? Lol

Let me gues. You never tank....
See wrd and guard aoe skills/ some are taunts, but even not taunt aoe skills with decent range helps you get agro. Beo has no such.
Please notice their CDs
https://imgur.com/a/bdE9XWI

75 seconds on taunt skill is like joke. Even more on 25 second spawn waves of adds.
Unlimited you say, whats the benefit of that when you cant agro 5 mobs ? Sure make it 10 targets, 8 even, but give us a proper cd.

Imagine that you have only one aoe skill on your hunter / unlimited targets/ and that skill have min and a half cd.
And please m8, go ""lol"" somewhere else.

[Atreius]

EDIT: I missed this, the arrows are a bug and not intended, I was actually worried it was a legit feature lol

[Ornelas]

First of all I want to say that some of the new changes are sweet, like the faster animations on Earthen and Ferocious roar. Much better, it doesn't make me cry casting them anymore.

But I am not sure about this iteration of the bear, even it if isn't THAT much different. Now I have a feeling that Rage has no point at all, bash cost barely dent into my rage generation, Trash doesnt spend but gives rage. All I have is Execute, but that has 30 sec CD.

I dunno guys, it felt better before to me, even tho you had to spend too much time building rage, and the staying power in bear was weak.
But it actually made sense to be switching from man to bear and viceversa.


What am I missing? is Execute all that rage is spent on now? the only point of switching between forms is to keep DOTS up?

Why do I have such a bad feeling now playing my bear, while I loved until yesterday? even tho I understand that people at 120 found their performance, as whatever build, definitely lacking.





Also the new bear form stance has made the transition between forms clunkier than it was before, which felt pretty smooth actually strangely enough (considering the older animations of some spells).

Alsox2 losing Expose in bear form feels bad to me, it was a fast animation attack which felt pretty good weaved in between trashes and whatever, also to keep up my rage to stay in bear longer. (not sure if it made sense rotation wise, but I used it and it felt good).
Now I have one less button in bear.

What this fellow beorning said expresses exactly my feelings... Please bring the old beorning, the man who generates wrath and then transforms himself into a bear to spend it. It was soo much fun... I don't even care if its the lowest dpser in the game

[Oelle]

Can we please get the ability to stack Bash bleeds and Recuperate HoTs back?
Those were nice and now they are gone

And please... we dont need three stance-skills. Just put the OOC movement speed buff to normal bear form and all we need is one switch-skill between man and bear.

[Atreius]

Can we please get the ability to stack Bash bleeds and Recuperate HoTs back?
Those were nice and now they are gone

And please... we dont need three stance-skills. Just put the OOC movement speed buff to normal bear form and all we need is one switch-skill between man and bear.

can't even stack Bash anymore? noice!

I use the auto-switching hotbars so I am still using only 1 keybind for those 2 switch-skills.


I do not have Moment of opportunity yet on this new beorning I am levelling, so can't really check if it is like this atm. But if Execute goes on Cooldown (30sec) when used on the proc I think Beorning has been DEMOLISHED in terms of gameplay.

Losing both Expose and Execute procs is just a way to make the class less fun to me, A LOT less fun. As I said I am not sure it works like this.


EDIT: I have asked some beorns that have MoM and they told me EXECUTE used with MoM procs is still on a 30 sec CD. I think this SUCKS so much I can't even describe how bad it is.

1 - I would like bear Expose back
2 - I would like Execute change reverted/rolledback


this is not an upgrade, this is 2 step backward, I don't care if beorns are doing much more dmg atm if they play like ####.

[JERH]

I really like the changes to both blue and red with improved dps and the short animations. I tried several experiments and could not get either bash or recuperate to stack multiple times. Hearten stacks with recuperate and that’s it. The stance transitions are very well done. Thanks vastin!

Not sure exactly what to think about execute. With full rage I got a “damage of 32541 (53216 from 100 rage)” type of combat output. I did not get kicked out of bear stance after the execute though to build up more rage quickly you pretty much have to go into man stance. So, a big finisher but not in most rotations I would use. It would pretty much finish off most landscape mobs and some elites so usable if 1v1 or the last mob standing. You can build up wrath again in man stance out of combat.

Composure is still on a 14 second cooldown so is still pretty powerful. Far more than both hearten and recuperate combined. I have not tried a blue build deep enough into red to get composure yet. Not sure I would loose much in blue except for the 60% damage reduction capstone.

So, in general just like vastin promised - a good start with some later tuning needed. I really like blue now. I think it’s fun. If bash stays single stack and execute stays finisher I’ll probably run blue.

[Mirar4]

From my understanding (which may be rather limited, I'm still patching the update right now), Beorning Armour isn't going to be changed to Heavy, but the Armour Rating is going to be increased to match Heavy Armour while the actual piece stays as Medium. At least, this is how it was working on BR.

Hence why I quoted the patch notes, which stated otherwise:

Level 116-120 Beorning armor has been converted to heavy, most lower level beorning specific armor is otherwise unchanged.

It has not been converted to Heavy.

[Menegris]

Relentless Maul display cooldawn still doesnt work if you are swapped between forms

[zipfile]

Let me gues. You never tank....

Not only did you guess wrong, you actually turned wrong way into a one way street.

See wrd and guard aoe skills/ some are taunts, but even not taunt aoe skills with decent range helps you get agro. Beo has no such.

Let's add on top, you have plenty of melee skills with a larger than average arc of effect to grab initial aggro. Perhaps the hunters you group with shouldn't stand at 35m away, or minstrels across the instance.
Oh, and claw swipe with the bleed to grab initial aggro.
lol

Please notice their CDs
https://imgur.com/a/bdE9XWI

Yes, and for both of them, same rule applies:
You'll get initial aggro, and then what? As soon as a hunter sneezes, you'll lose it cause neither have had their multipliers scaled up properly (talking about War-chant and Resounding Challenge)
Also, are you comparing taunts? Really? Where is the Captain in this mix then?
Oh, sorry, point out invalidity. Anyway, Challenge has 12 targets and is centred around you, while Vigilant Roar has a remote cast point and an AOE with unlimited targets.
Additionally, not even Guardians have a taunt to reliably instantly pull everything at Storvagun, but guess what? You don't need to grab LITERALLY every thing all the time, if you DPS is glass, they'll pay the price because adds will overwhelm them as they mindlessly continue attacking the boss.
Oh, and cooldowns when it comes to clearing trash are relatively a moot point considering that there aren't additional trash waves that spawn on top of already spawned trash wave (excluding some boss fights), so making an argument there isn't relevant either.
lol

75 seconds on taunt skill is like joke. Even more on 25 second spawn waves of adds.
Unlimited you say, whats the benefit of that when you cant agro 5 mobs ? Sure make it 10 targets, 8 even, but give us a proper cd.

If you cannot aggro, then you need to learn to tank.
Cooldown point is moot.
lol

Imagine that you have only one aoe skill on your hunter / unlimited targets/ and that skill have min and a half cd.
And please m8, go ""lol"" somewhere else.

Why are you mentioning hunters here?
lol

gr8 b8 m8, i r8 8/8

Edit: Nice Disorientation, by the way.

[Anae]

Can we please get the ability to stack Bash bleeds and Recuperate HoTs back?
Those were nice and now they are gone

And please... we dont need three stance-skills. Just put the OOC movement speed buff to normal bear form and all we need is one switch-skill between man and bear.

Yes, yes, yes. I started a new beorning to try out these changes and heartily agree, agree, agree that only ONE toggle is needed to switch between man and bear out of combat. I love that I can do this 'naturally' in combat; the multiple stance skills are redundantly redundant.

[Aelbryht]

After running around solo yesterday at level 50 I wanted to give some feedback on our new state.

Blue line

So you've already acknowledged a problem here and well...as things stand it's super trivial to play. I can run in to fight Bogbereth for example and all I really have to do is spam Thrash, Claws, Armour Crush, Bee Swarm and Counter/Counterattack whenever they are off cooldown and I steadily (quite quickly in fact) burn through her morale without any problems at all. The occasional Recuperate/Cleanse is more than enough to keep you going through the whole fight and there's zero need to pop back in to man form.

I think a big culprit permitting this approach is Counterattack. I'm sure someone has noted that there isn't a proper animation for it in bear form (Joe?) but a knock-on effect of that is that you can use it 3 times every proc. That's +30 wrath and you typically get multiple procs every time Counter is up so, together with Thrash's +5 and your passive generation in bear form, it's basically giving you an infinite wrath supply. By comparison, if you use Counterattack in man form you can only manage two hits per proc as it's tied to a fairly awkward animation where you swing your weapon up over your head. Not that you would want to be in man form since there's currently no reason to use it.

A quick fix would obviously be to stop Counterattack adding any wrath at all (or drop it to +5?) but is that the right approach? Jumping back in to man form to build wrath more quickly is a fairly risky affair since your survivability plummets compared to bear form, so it feels like there needs to be some more fundamental change in addition to solving the infinite wrath pool. I know some aren't that keen on forced swapping between the forms but to me it feels like the class would work best with both forms being useful and with a level of synergy between them. Some ideas to help achieve that for this trait line then:

Down but not Out - This really needs to be a 20% heal for both forms. The +50 wrath in bear form is even less useful now than it was before since there are no wrath issues and you can't even stack Recuperate HoTs to make use of it.

Worthy Adversary - Great for bear form but I think it would help to let it also give +5% block/parry/evade exclusively for the man form stance.

Counter/Counterattack - Make both of these man form only skills. Counter would remain functionally similar with no damage, a higher +10 wrath and a lower +5% evade for 20 seconds on a 40 second cooldown. Counterattack would change to unlock only while Counter is active and be usable once during that time. It retains its damage, gives +10 wrath and also +5% parry bonus for 20 seconds. So you could fire it off straight after Counter to try and stack both avoidance buffs together for the majority of the next 20 seconds, or fire it off right as Counter is about to end so it would fill most of that 20 second gap until you can use Counter again. I've gone for +5% buffs in this example as I'm not looking to make us more OP.

Defensively Minded - To avoid making Guarded Attack redundant I think this needs to be changed to give stacks of +% tactical mitigation instead when you parry or evade. So you would still need to regularly head back in to man form to keep the physical mitigation stacks topped out on yourself with Guarded Attack (which isn't too hard as they tier down instead of disappearing completely). Again I'm not looking to make us OP so they don't have to be +10% of each, it could be anything like 10 physical / 5 tactical, 5/5, 8/8, 8/4 etc...whatever works.

Animalistic - This one certainly feels pretty underwhelming for a final set bonus trait. Would it not make more sense for it to give an increasing boost to some aspect of our tanking performance as our morale reduces? Getting more enraged the more hurt we are seems like a pretty fitting mechanic for a Beorning. So something like increasing partial %/partial mitigation for our parry and/or block to represent powering through attacks that would normally have a greater impact.

Do any of those sound like they would make for enjoyable/worthwhile changes to what we currently have?


I was going to carry on and write about red line as well since there are similar issues with excess wrath and things like Execute and Call to Wild, but that's enough typing for now.

[Dinara]

As a solo (Red) player, I found nothing more annoying than running out of wrath and having to fight in man form to build it back up. By the time I had enough wrath to change to Bear, the fight was over. I think wrath is fine now, it doesn't run out too fast and if I need a heal I can pop to man, heal and pop back to bear. The whole point of being a Beorning is to fight as a bear!

[greendragoon100]

I tried out the changes on my Beorning last night. I only had tome to try out red line, but here are my thoughts so far:

1. I like the new stances, very responsive. That with the removal of wrath decay makes being in Bear Form so much less of a chore.

2. That said, Wanderlust is really odd as a third stance since so much of the Beorning's setup revolves around the two forms. Wanderlust should be a bear-form toggle, similar to Forced March on Wardens. Dropping the Beorning down to a two stance system will help it mesh better with the established bar swap mechanic.

3. I definitely feel the bump in DPS. Even completely ignoring Execute, it felt much faster to take down landscape mobs.

4. As for Execute, it's essentially just finisher move, which in of itself, I'm okay with. That being said, the trait unlocking it at random times is pretty useless as Execute is only at it's best at full wrath, which you have to spend to get it to unlock.

5. If we assume that Execute is really just a finisher, I feel like Red line bear form needs one more attack. It actually has fewer attacks than blue line. One more cooldown-limited heavy hit skill feels like it would be in order.

That's my thoughts so far, I haven't had chance to see how the heavy armor change will affect survivability, but but my Beorning isn't any weaker than before, so I imagine it can only go up. In general, the swapping between man and bear feels much more controlled and I like how you can tactically choose when you need more damage and when you need more wrath generation.

[Atreius]

As a solo (Red) player, I found nothing more annoying than running out of wrath and having to fight in man form to build it back up. By the time I had enough wrath to change to Bear, the fight was over. I think wrath is fine now, it doesn't run out too fast and if I need a heal I can pop to man, heal and pop back to bear. The whole point of being a Beorning is to fight as a bear!

it's not supposed to be like this, camping around in bear form all the time smashing that trash button while doing a bash/execute once in a blue moon.

the whole man / bear form pop in and out, build/spend wrath was what made the class unique.

I just hope most beorns do not share this sentiment, or we are gonna have to keep this a-little-derpier version of the beorning.





the changes to OOC wrath decay and the fact that you actually passively build wrath instead of losing it would have probably been enough for most people feeling like you had to spend too much time in man form and too little in bear form. I would have suggested a completely different class if people didn't like the whole idea of wrath managing.

Changing Trash from a spender to a builder was MAYBE a bad idea, or simply a bit too much, along with the butchering of Execute.

Im Talking RED line anyway, the trash builder actually feels nice in blue line, but that's probably because they actually have plenty of Wrath spenders so it kinda still makes sense.

[Dinara]

I do not share your take on the class.
Before the patch, there was absolutly no reason to be in bear form, if you even found a fight that would last long enough to build enough wrath to change.

It's much better now. I can start and end a fight as a bear. TO ME this is the reason to be a Beorning. And I hope the Dev's don't change it.

[Lampion-Snowbourn]

First of all I want to say that some of the new changes are sweet, like the faster animations on Earthen and Ferocious roar. Much better, it doesn't make me cry anymore, having to cast them.
Reduced CD on shake free, Wanderlust all good stuff.

But I am not sure about this iteration of the bear, even it if isn't THAT much different. Now I have a feeling that Rage has no point at all, bash cost barely dent into my rage generation, Trash doesn't spend but gives rage. All I have is Execute, but that has 30 sec CD.

I dunno guys, it felt better before to me, even tho you had to spend too much time building rage, and the staying power in bear was weak and probably too short. But it actually made sense to be switching from man to bear and viceversa.

What am I missing? is Execute all that rage is spent on now? the only point of switching between forms is to keep DOTS up?

Why do I have such a bad feeling now playing my bear, while I loved it till yesterday? even tho I understand that people at 120 found their performance, as whatever build, definitely lacking.





Also the new bear form stance has made the transition between forms clunkier than it was before, which felt pretty smooth strangely enough (considering the older animations of some spells which are better now like I said before).

Alsox2 losing Expose in bear form feels bad to me, it was a fast animation attack which felt pretty good weaved in between trashes and whatever, also to keep up my rage to stay in bear longer. (not sure if it made sense rotation wise, but I used it and it felt good).
Now I have one less button in bear.

Exactly my thoughts. But to be more precise:

Good things with update:
- faster animations
- ability to be more in bear form

Bad things with update:
- wrath management (which is the core of the class) is broken and unnecessary
- 3 button for switching forms are really redundant
- Wanderlust doesn't need to be a form at all

It was maybe a too big step, and should definitely fine-tuned: to be able to be more in bear form, but to keep up the point in switching between man and bear.

[Pavlin]

Relentless Maul display cooldawn still doesnt work if you are swapped between forms

Put it on separate/ not changable bar/ main bar or bar 1/ and you can track the cd.

[Pavlin]

Exactly my thoughts. But to be more precise:

Good things with update:
- faster animations
- ability to be more in bear form

Bad things with update:
- wrath management (which is the core of the class) is broken and unnecessary
- 3 button for switching forms are really redundant
- Wanderlust doesn't need to be a form at all

It was maybe a too big step, and should definitely fine-tuned: to be able to be more in bear form, but to keep up the point in switching between man and bear.

Agree with all. Will add one more /bad one sadly/ thing.
Adding 75 second cd on the only aoe we have make us almost uneable to tank even 3 man.
Want to see person make this changes tanking last boss in Glimmer outside t1.
On t2 and t3 you need to kite both boss and goblins. With 75 cd second aoe taunt + 10.2m range i wish you good luck. You gona need it. Goblins spawn before your skill recharge.
Make it 30 40 seconds cd. Set targets to 8 ot 10. and increasse the range to 30m. I provided a imgur link few post above so you can compare it to othe tanks skills/ range/cd.
If we are tanks, let us tank.
Human form skills and perks / tree traits/ are not even usable when play blue line. So pls redo them.
With most legacies removed, and with half of our skills not usable at all/ human form ones/ we feel like half of a class.
Is not bitching. I`m damn happy of the work you done so far Vastin. Now just polish it.
Cheers

ps

And about wanderlust. Make it work like a hunter/ warden aura/ its rly anoyng to use it/ because as bear you cant interact with half ot the objects. Switching it on and off + the sounds it makes bugs me. And not only me i`m sure

[Aelbryht]

As a solo (Red) player, I found nothing more annoying than running out of wrath and having to fight in man form to build it back up. By the time I had enough wrath to change to Bear, the fight was over. I think wrath is fine now, it doesn't run out too fast and if I need a heal I can pop to man, heal and pop back to bear. The whole point of being a Beorning is to fight as a bear!

That's fair Dinara, I'm not advocating to go back to a point where your wrath evaporates in bear form. I just want our peak performance to come from using a blend of man and bear form, not exclusively one or the other. Both should be able to contribute meaningfully and that's very much not the case in the current blue trait line in particular.

[snacktime]

Bear feels much better now. Wrath is arguably broken since you rarely run out of it why is it there, but I'm not so sure wrath wasn't broken at design time. It took so long to build wrath in man form that often by the time you switched, it was too late. Mob was dead, player was dead because you didn't heal them, etc..

Having bad dps in man and good dps in bear is I think a broken design. That just doesn't feel good. Man having a different set of skills that are different yet you have a reason to use them, is a better design IMO. Man for healing, buffing/debuffing, etc..

[Atreius]

Bear feels much better now. Wrath is arguably broken since you rarely run out of it why is it there, but I'm not so sure wrath wasn't broken at design time. It took so long to build wrath in man form that often by the time you switched, it was too late. Mob was dead, player was dead because you didn't heal them, etc..

Having bad dps in man and good dps in bear is I think a broken design. That just doesn't feel good. Man having a different set of skills that are different yet you have a reason to use them, is a better design IMO. Man for healing, buffing/debuffing, etc..

we can all agree that we needed tweaks on wrath management.
and Vastin gave us that: no wrath decay out of combat, no losing wrath in combat while in bear. It's a good start.

But then we went completely overboard. We went from "well I need more wrath..." to "what the hell am I supposed to do with all of this wrath?".

Meanwhile also losing a bunch of button presses. Seems like some people just love to Trash trash trash trash some more trash tho.





if you want to camp Bear you should ask for better bear tools then. Because it's clear as water that the class IS NOT meant to be that much into bear and needs to be played with a good balance of man form and bear form. Maybe, just maybe, all we needed was man-form not to hit like a gimp?
Look at the tools your class have, half of your skills are in man form.

[Ornelas]

I do not share your take on the class.
Before the patch, there was absolutly no reason to be in bear form, if you even found a fight that would last long enough to build enough wrath to change.

It's much better now. I can start and end a fight as a bear. TO ME this is the reason to be a Beorning. And I hope the Dev's don't change it.

And now there is no reason to be on man form, so what are man skills for now since you only use bear form? what is wrath for since you can generate it as bear? It's a resource management class, you start accumulating wrath and then you unleash everything as efficiently as possible until you are dry, THAT was the core and the reason to be a Beorning.