Should healing bears focus on might or outgoing healing? Or both?

[Shizuku]

My bear is only 111 right now but i mostly just heal/plan on healing endgame stuff. Just wondering which stat i should focus on.

[Happychappy]

My bear is only 111 right now but i mostly just heal/plan on healing endgame stuff. Just wondering which stat i should focus on.

Might offers very little nowadays. Outgoing healing would give better returns, don't forget critical % though.

[Pavlin]

My bear is only 111 right now but i mostly just heal/plan on healing endgame stuff. Just wondering which stat i should focus on.

Get enough mits 1st. Its easy now, since we are heavy.
Cap crit . Be sure you grab talent from red line too.
Then go for mastery.
Slot some vitality if you are feeling squishy.
Literaly copy any good ministrel essences.
I`l recomend atleast 1 finesse essence.
Yellow bear rely heavily on debufs.

[dsltn07]

Get enough mits 1st. Its easy now, since we are heavy.
Cap crit . Be sure you grab talent from red line too.
Then go for mastery.
Slot some vitality if you are feeling squishy.
Literaly copy any good ministrel essences.
I`l recomend atleast 1 finesse essence.
Yellow bear rely heavily on debufs.

Do you mind sharing specifically which debuffs you rely on?

[Pavlin]

Do you mind sharing specifically which debuffs you rely on?

Buffs, debufs and cc.

Skill like bees, fear, piercingr/crippling roar, take down/levelling roar, raging blow.
Some/if not all, yellow bears pick even rending blows from blue.
Even if he dont use any of the skills i mention, he stil use mele skills.
Why not just mouseover yellow tree line and see yourself ?

[dsltn07]

Buffs, debufs and cc.

Skill like bees, fear, piercingr/crippling roar, take down/levelling roar, raging blow.
Some/if not all, yellow bears pick even rending blows from blue.
Even if he dont use any of the skills i mention, he stil use mele skills.
Why not just mouseover yellow tree line and see yourself ?

I am familiar with the skills you listed, however many of them are useless in group situations. Piercing roar supposedly scales off npc mastery, which is around a 5% damage reduction, not 40%. Bosses are frequently immune to CC such as knockdown from leveling roar, fear has always been useless, and bees are, for the most part, useless. If by raging blow you mean rending blow, then for the most part also useless since you should not be in melee range anyways. It also takes many trait points to get. You should not be using your other melee skills except biting edge and maybe slash.

[Pelind]

Uh you should abolutely be going into melee for armour crush and vicious claws (if beehiving a dps). Just learn how frontal angles work and don't be a dumbdumb.

[Sarthien90]

You can do both, being in melee range or use the full 20 meters of your healing skills. Depends on the situation. For that I have two yellow trees, one with debuffs, one with less debuffs. When your tank takes not too high damage, you can support DPS pretty well. When your focus has to be more on healing your tank then debuffing is not that important. Or when having mobs like the worms in Thrumfall where being in melee range means you're stunned as often as your tank... nobody has a benefit from that.

Relating to the question: Outgoing Healing is better than Might. My bear for example has some jewelry with Will + OH so I have essence slots for every other thing I want to have (mostly critical rating, then tactical mits and vitality)
I would suggest you bring Outgoing Healing to around 70% and Crit to more than 22%, then your mitigations to around 45% (in my experience there's no need to have more by now, may change with the raid)

As someone stated already, many debuffs don't do what people think they are doing, so in my opinion it's not worth to slot an extra portion of Finesse (there's gear with Might + Finesse anyway and most of the time that is enough to have Debuffs up in 90% of cases)

[ColMcStacky]

To the original point of the thread, I would say get mits to ~50% for both, then focus on bringing Critical Rating up to cap (or close to it), then bring morale up to at least 120-130k, then you can worry about Outgoing Healing if you want.

I am familiar with the skills you listed, however many of them are useless in group situations. Piercing roar supposedly scales off npc mastery, which is around a 5% damage reduction, not 40%. Bosses are frequently immune to CC such as knockdown from leveling roar, fear has always been useless, and bees are, for the most part, useless. If by raging blow you mean rending blow, then for the most part also useless since you should not be in melee range anyways. It also takes many trait points to get. You should not be using your other melee skills except biting edge and maybe slash.

I disagree with you a bit here. While a few of our debuffs are useless in certain situations, there are many situations where they actually are useful. Piercing Roar I agree with you, as it stacks additively with enemy mastery (this is why it's only a 2-5% reduction instead of 20-40%). Leveling Roar/Grisly Cry (the fear) are situational. Thikil-Gundu t2 for example, they are very helpful with the spirits. I also often use them to interrupt enemies that are inducting at range (when they aren't immune to CC). Bees/Armour Crush I also often use off cooldown on enemies to boost group damage, so long as the group comp is one where they are useful. I actually tell my Hunt*rd friends to not use fire oils when I'm tanking/healing if there is no LM/RK in the group. Without fire mitigation debuffs on enemies, Hunt*rds will actually do more damage without oils if we are keeping bees up. Also, Armour Crush benefits all DPS, so I always use it so long as I don't need to save it for an interrupt.

And being in melee range is really down to a personal choice. There's nothing that says "Beornings should never ever be in melee range evarr!!!1!11!" It's simply down to a person's play style, whether they think the risk of taking more damage is worth the payoff of faster Wrath regen, Armour Crush debuff, Slash Outgoing Healing buff, etc. In my opinion, it often is.

Uh you should abolutely be going into melee for armour crush and vicious claws (if beehiving a dps). Just learn how frontal angles work and don't be a dumbdumb.

Very true, Pelind. You're a clever little AI, aren't you?

And yeah, so long as you learn how to play in melee range, you are fine being up close and personal with enemies. Roll a Chump if you want to learn about being a squishy melee class who has next to no self-heals. You will learn real fast-like.

[dsltn07]

I was trying to clearly illustrate to someone new to beorning that many of the debuffs do not work as advertised. The comment I was replying to said to heavily rely on debuffs, which I disagreed with. Some of my points came off a little strong, most of the skills are very situational. If someone new is learning to heal, I’d rather they focus on healing than keeping bees up and using piercing roar off cooldown.

Most important reply in the thread is this:
To the original point of the thread, I would say get mits to ~50% for both, then focus on bringing Critical Rating up to cap (or close to it), then bring morale up to at least 120-130k, then you can worry about Outgoing Healing if you want.

Sarthiens whole post as well.

[ColMcStacky]

I was trying to clearly illustrate to someone new to beorning that many of the debuffs do not work as advertised. The comment I was replying to said to heavily rely on debuffs, which I disagreed with. Some of my points came off a little strong, most of the skills are very situational. If someone new is learning to heal, I’d rather they focus on healing than keeping bees up and using piercing roar off cooldown.

Most important reply in the thread is this:
To the original point of the thread, I would say get mits to ~50% for both, then focus on bringing Critical Rating up to cap (or close to it), then bring morale up to at least 120-130k, then you can worry about Outgoing Healing if you want.

Sarthiens whole post as well.

Ahh, I misunderstood then, my apologies. Yeah, from that perspective you're right. It comes down to a set of priorities. As a yellow bear, you always want to prioritize healing above everything else; the buffs/debuffs you have are really just icing on the cake. They're nice when you can afford the Wrath and time to spend on them, but definitely are not necessary (and not always helpful in every situation).

And agreed, I just skimmed the thread earlier, but Sarthien's post is probably the best reply in the thread:

You can do both, being in melee range or use the full 20 meters of your healing skills. Depends on the situation. For that I have two yellow trees, one with debuffs, one with less debuffs. When your tank takes not too high damage, you can support DPS pretty well. When your focus has to be more on healing your tank then debuffing is not that important. Or when having mobs like the worms in Thrumfall where being in melee range means you're stunned as often as your tank... nobody has a benefit from that.

Relating to the question: Outgoing Healing is better than Might. My bear for example has some jewelry with Will + OH so I have essence slots for every other thing I want to have (mostly critical rating, then tactical mits and vitality)
I would suggest you bring Outgoing Healing to around 70% and Crit to more than 22%, then your mitigations to around 45% (in my experience there's no need to have more by now, may change with the raid)

As someone stated already, many debuffs don't do what people think they are doing, so in my opinion it's not worth to slot an extra portion of Finesse (there's gear with Might + Finesse anyway and most of the time that is enough to have Debuffs up in 90% of cases)

[Pavlin]

I am familiar with the skills you listed, however many of them are useless in group situations. Piercing roar supposedly scales off npc mastery, which is around a 5% damage reduction, not 40%. Bosses are frequently immune to CC such as knockdown from leveling roar, fear has always been useless, and bees are, for the most part, useless. If by raging blow you mean rending blow, then for the most part also useless since you should not be in melee range anyways. It also takes many trait points to get. You should not be using your other melee skills except biting edge and maybe slash.

In instances we have trash is more harder than boss.
Wont argue about PR. Even 5% dmg reduction is usefull.
Bees are great wehn you run 3/6 man and have no LM in fellow. And even if you have lm this not mean he will debuff at all/ most of the times they just spam fire.
Fear is the great skill. Can be used for interupt induction if needed. Or to fear that extra patrol mob which come from you back and tank dont even notice. This will give him time to agro the mob before he rekt half of the DPSrs.
How interupt can be usseless? it works on everything. Even on boss. Sorry wont agree with you here.
Mele range? Bear is mostly close/ mele range healer. Even at max range he cant be more than 20m away. So plenty of time to use interupt and go back keeping distance if you wish.
Why not using my mele skills ? What i`m ? A blue mini or RK ? Mele skills generate extra wrath. Buff your other skills, and least but not last do prety good damage.
Listening to you, SSG must cut 90% of the beo skills
Just LOL m8.
Sorry, but just LoL.

[dsltn07]

In instances we have trash is more harder than boss.
Wont argue about PR. Even 5% dmg reduction is usefull.
Bees are great wehn you run 3/6 man and have no LM in fellow. And even if you have lm this not mean he will debuff at all/ most of the times they just spam fire.
Fear is the great skill. Can be used for interupt induction if needed. Or to fear that extra patrol mob which come from you back and tank dont even notice. This will give him time to agro the mob before he rekt half of the DPSrs.
How interupt can be usseless? it works on everything. Even on boss. Sorry wont agree with you here.
Mele range? Bear is mostly close/ mele range healer. Even at max range he cant be more than 20m away. So plenty of time to use interupt and go back keeping distance if you wish.
Why not using my mele skills ? What i`m ? A blue mini or RK ? Mele skills generate extra wrath. Buff your other skills, and least but not last do prety good damage.
Listening to you, SSG must cut 90% of the beo skills
Just LOL m8.
Sorry, but just LoL.

Laugh away friend. A new bear asked about healing stats and you told him to focus on debuff skills
I’m asking SSG for more skills and more reworked skills, not less because the ones we have currently have very little impact compared to their intended purpose. Healer should not be focusing on interrupt skills and dps. Fear has always been a poor mechanic. It works in landscape but is extremely unreliable for groups. Generally, tanks will smack you silly for fearing mobs away from force attack skills on a pull.

[Pavlin]

Laugh away friend. A new bear asked about healing stats and you told him to focus on debuff skills
I’m asking SSG for more skills and more reworked skills, not less because the ones we have currently have very little impact compared to their intended purpose. Healer should not be focusing on interrupt skills and dps. Fear has always been a poor mechanic. It works in landscape but is extremely unreliable for groups. Generally, tanks will smack you silly for fearing mobs away from force attack skills on a pull.

I dint tell him to FOCUS on skills.I just give him advice which is usefull.
Fear is great skill even if used for interupt and tank will be happy if you use it right. All tanks use aoe and when you use fear to interupt induction, that mob wont run away. Fear is broken with the 1st hit and mobs stay on place. Even now with the broken bow using in bear form you break fear right after cast / if you are not fast with tabulation changing target/ because right after spell cast a auoto attack from bow follow. In lnadscape you hardly use fear. I run with 2 mele interupts and 2 stuns and i dont see point to use fear too/ while questing or such/.
Beor iis a hybrid class. Similar /if not copy paste/ to capy. So ofc he will do heal, cc, buffs and debufs when needed. As a bear you can even outtaunt some mob from the tank just to easy healing. Using all tools class gives you make you usefull. This not mean to spam them on cooldown.

[dsltn07]

We have two individual interrupt skills like you keep telling me yourself...why in the world would you use a fear skill as an interrupt? This is not helpful advice. In your own post you give reasons you don’t use fear for landscape. There is even less reason when there is a dedicated tank.

[Pavlin]

.why in the world would you use a fear skill as an interrupt? . There is even less reason when there is a dedicated tank.

Because fear is ranged?
Tank is not a god, and his interupt skills most/if not all/ of the time are mele range.
Wont mention with the curent mechanic we have atm, tank is pined in one of the corners and all he see is boss balls bouncing.

[Teyaha]

if you guys arenot in melee range then that must mean you aren not traiting into encouraging strike and building wrath with the man heal and ferocious roar exclusively? that seems problematic to me.

[Sarthien90]

if you guys arenot in melee range then that must mean you aren not traiting into encouraging strike and building wrath with the man heal and ferocious roar exclusively? that seems problematic to me.

Works as good as before the class update. Biting Edge + Nature's Mend + Hearten and you're done, then switch to bear for Encouraging Roar and maybe Rejuvenating Bellow (if needed) and back to man. Repeat. In general and to put it simple. Of course there can be variations and of course, as mentioned, you can go in melee range for debuffs - as long as it is not too dangerous because of stuns etc.
So you CAN stay away if you want to, and you CAN be in melee range if you want to

[ColMcStacky]

if you guys arenot in melee range then that must mean you aren not traiting into encouraging strike and building wrath with the man heal and ferocious roar exclusively? that seems problematic to me.

It's really a matter of personal choice.

You can go into melee range if you want. If you do, you have extra buffs/debuffs available for use as a reward. You also might have to worry about stuns/punts/fears, and AoE attacks.

You can also stay back, play it safe, and just keep your head down while spamming Encouraging Roar.

There's a time and a place for both, but personally, I prefer to be in melee range when possible, as I'm a sucker for adding support/utility to any role in a group.

[Seschat]

There's a time and a place for both, but personally, I prefer to be in melee range when possible, as I'm a sucker for adding support/utility to any role in a group.

Yeah, I completely understand. I am a competent support/healing player, however, from an epic storytelling POV, I want to participate in the fight, help drop that morale bar, not just make things glow.