Beorning Update Incoming

[morrthe]

[QUOTE=JiiPee;7904887]Can you please show me any other healing class what does over 60k crit pulse heals from HoT?

You misunderstood me. I agree the HoT of ER needs a nerf, but i thought you were proposing a nerf to the entire heal. Scaling is screwed up, i agree with you on that.


Set bonus is already nerfed, ER HoT is what needs to be nerfed.


Already stated that i agreed that the HoT needs a nerf. Set bonuses say they are nerfed, but tell me why it still isnt fixed. My t3 HoT does 16-20K without set bonus, put set bonus armor on. Guess what, it still does 16-20K. This is what i meant by "nerfing it" they still need to apply the nerf. SSG gave us #### again. Or better yet. Screw the set bonus, gives a HoT for fship and and completely remove the set bonus.



Set bonus.. set bonus... set bonus...
Set bonus was not OP at lvl115. It became OP when ER HoT became OP. And because beorning may have been at bad spot long, it doesn't mean that next 3 years it must be OP AF class because hey, we was so bad spot so long, we have every right to be OP now!


Also WTH be the point in buying beorning now? People buy the RK because it has good damg, people buy the warden because it can solo tank and also has decent damg. Tell me, what is the point of the beorning? to be a nice cuddly teddy bear that can fill no role adequately.


Strongly disagree with this. Sacrifice is very good skill on yellow line when you trait it fully from blue and red line. Redirect 75% damage to yourself. 20% gets absorbed because of yellow tree trait and another 20% gets absorbed because of red trait. This makes it quite safe skill to use to tank so that you don't blow up yourself.


I was wrong about Yellow line. I agree with you on yellow. Red Sacrifice is completely useless, Also blue line 20% absorb is more then a bit underwhelming.






Problem is when you have skill with long CD, it becomes so precious that you do not use it at all because your saving it to "oh ####!" moment, or you blame yourself that you used it wrong time if you keep using it when it's available. Perfect example is mini FH.


Yes i agree with you. The whole point of FH is to use it when you need it, and if you screwed up then you screwed up. Also it has a 5min CD not a 2min that i suggested.


Please no. Bear already have 4 force taunts, no more. Cappy and warden have 2 and it warden only got it's 2nd force taunt just recently. We could use legacy for increased range. Add it as secondary to some legacy or make new legacy for something and add range as secondary.


Agree.



And I have been trying to say that this set bonus became issue only just very recently. And it's not crit magnitude what need nerf, it's HoT scaling what needs nerf if we now start to touch crit magnitude, it most likely affect all healing classes and if it gets nerfed then mini will be in serious troubles, after all mini healing is now all about crits.


Also agreed.



Set bonus is not an issue if ER HoT is reversed back to where it was before changes. Like 10th times, that set wasn't OP at lvl115, it wasn't OP at start of the 120 era. It was only nice to have, made your life little bit more easy, but it wasn't required. It still isn't required, but having it makes healing stupidly easy.
I think best would be to bring this group HoT feature in with some trait change and make this set bonus to add lets say +2 pulses. Maybe then everyone would be happy. Or make set to give +20% crit magnitude like Osgiliath 2-set gives.

Also agree. Why i would like the abyss set bonus to actually take effect.
Also the Devs themselves said ERs HoT was too overpowered. Originally why the set bonus nerf was implemented. But obviously this nerf hasn't been taking effect at 33% power.

[kalil]

Has anyone heard if there is another round of fixes for beorning? I know there will be some tweaking on the yellow side but haven't heard much else. I'm not interested in healing on beorn and am mainly concerned with Red line. For a red line dps seems pretty anemic with too few actual skills and poor traits to actually put points in..now that i've completely removed Execute from line (just not worth the points imo). There needs to be a bump in red line dps, few more aoe options and a fix in delay when hitting the actual skills (hope i'm not the only one having this issue).

[zipfile]

For a red line dps seems pretty anemic with too few actual skills and poor traits to actually put points in

Same as the Red Guardian, but people ain't caring

/shrug

[Fasin]

Look what you said:



Do you see the difference in your very own sentences?
Instead of insulting me, you could simply confess, that you made a mistake.

I'm guessing you thought i was referring to vicious claws. I wasn't. 15% mastery is a small dps boost at best. I was referring to rending blow/armour crush, and to a lesser extent, bee swarm mit debuff/crit defence debuff.

My statements are true, the only mistake made was yours.

[Aelbryht]

I didn't see it mentioned in the #5 notes but on BR we now have different colours for the man form (red), bear form (blue) and wanderlust (green) skills which is a nice visual touch. Maybe Vastin will pop in with an update of everything that has changed/is still expected to change once he's managed to wade through all those pages of back and forth healing discussion.

[morrthe]

Bear legacy changes

CURRENT LEGACIES

Weapon

1) Bear form damage +31.2% (Keep this one as it is)
2) Bee swarm damage +31.2%(needs a buff the damage of bees is very underwhelming. Only reason to use for most people is the debuff in yellow line and the debuff for crit D which I will get to later. Needs to do 10-15K per tick damg without legacy)
3) Bee swarm crit D debuff -7300( no use, Literally just get rid of these kinds of things. -7K is a level 75 legacy. Buff to like -30K)
4) Call to wild phy mast +7300(Only reason to have this is because Beorning lacks any other dps legacies. Buff to like 50K its only temporary, less useful then bee swarm crit D)
5) Chance for attacks to return wrath 31.2%( fairly decent, but I have no trouble with wrath building so no point.)
6) Execute damage +31.2%( most people don’t use execute now, make execute able to crit and give us proc again. It only hits for 60K on ave, and gets rid of all your wrath. Useless)
7) Relentless maul +31.2% ( decent damage, for a mediocre skill. Relentless maul needs to be reworked or give us more AoE damaging skills, and change the legacy to area of affect skill damage.)
8) Thickened hide tact mit +7300( mediocre at best, Its only temporary, and a tank should have this capped already. Rework it into a –incoming damage, or plus block, parry and evade percent)
9) Turn the tides damage +31.2%( nobody traits this. Please, Please, Please, rework the traits that are useless. Which at this point is most of them.)
10) Vigilant roar damage +31.2% ( instead of damage increase, make it range for Vigilant roar. Only reason for roar is to tank or landscape while all the other skills are on CD.)


Carving
1) Bear form crit D +7300 ( this one is more useful than all of the 7300 ones cause it’s the whole time you’re in bear. That being said this could be buffed to 10-15K, but not necessary.)
2) Bond of trust heal chance +29.2%(good trait one of the best ones beo has. Not much to say here, keep it the same)
3) Chance for bonus wrath from slam +29.2% (mediocre, pretty good for slam. All classes have their mediocre legacies; this one doesn’t need a buff.)
4) Cry damage +29.2%(meh, we have 3 cry skills with not much damage.)
5) Healing potency +29.2% (one of the best for beorning in its current state. Keep it the same)
6) Man form damage +29.2% (not as good as bear form but, it’s a good one. Keep it the same)
7) Hearten heal strength+29.2% ( decent for a mediocre skill. Skill is mostly used for wrath building. Leave it alone, Or make it build more wrath.)
8) Rush evade rating+7300 (terrible, probably the worst legacy the beorning has. Needs to be a percentage buff to block, parry, AND EVADE. In its current form this is probably the worst legacy. Hell even an increased duration to rush is better, like it was before imbuement.)
9) Vicious claw damage +58.4% ( Good, very important skill for dps rotation. Keep it as it is)
10) Vigilant roar incoming healing x1.456 (liked the reflect damage more, but this one is fine. Don’t change, if you do change back to reflect damage)
11) – Thunderous roar CD -30s +24% damg (decent, keep it where its at)



New legacies
1) Bleed damage legacy( or just a DoT damage legacy)
2) Crit multiplier for bear form
3) Area of affect damage (provided we get more AoE skills)
4) Max wrath increase
5) Bear form critical rating (Not the dreaded 7300 number please.)
6) More block, parry and evade (provided we get skills that actually do things like this)
7) +block rating (since we don’t have shields need something to compensate that)
Note—These changes are just my opinion and a few others. Feel free to ask why I see them this way, or why they should be changed a different way. I’m open minded.
Thank you for all the changes thus far. Hope the future changes are met positively.

[Hildilas]

Mordor set still OP. How come? Do I need to farm old ash to compete in endgame?

[morrthe]

I agree on the thrash CD reductions for RM. Good idea, glad we have people thinking out loud. Also agree that ALL tiers of Thrash should hit 3-5 targets.

Bleed crit multiplier would be awesome. Also i would like to see a bleed legacy. (keep it balanced)

I like the idea of man form special debuffs and bear form debuffs, would have to keep it balanced. A way of keeping it balanced is by having, say the bear form debuffs be more potent while your actually in bear form and be less potent in man form for balance. Provided the debuffs are enough of a debuff that they can do that. Otherwise you just get both debuffs up, apply your bleeds, and then do your normal rotation for max dps.

Biting edge/serrated edge, i strongly disagree that we should take the bleed away. Unless of course what dsltn07 said and make the other bleeds alot ALOT better. Biting edge currently is probably our best bleed (besides slash). Only reason slash out does biting edge right now is, biting edges CD is pretty long to reapply, and its bleed only lasts 6 seconds. So you can see my skepticism on getting rid of biting edges bleed, i honestly think it needs have a long duration not get rid of it.

Call to Wild, i agree on the points made by Estelrandir. If execute had proc and could be used as many times as you can get while using this skill it would really help beorning dps. Call to Wild in its current state is next to useless, im never at low enough wrath for it to be useful and 7K mastery is useless. Replace mast for crit magnitude as suggested. i agree on 20-50%, Or increase over all damage by like 50%. One or the other, in addition to a higher proc for Execute. If it isn't plainly obvious by now execute is a REALLY bad skill.

I agree that the beorning should mainly be an AoE class, maybe not as many targets as a champion, but make it really high 3-5 target dps. Honestly we need more AoE classes, Champion is really the best at AoE, dont want to change that. Just make it so it has more competition. Already have hunters and RKs for single target, already have LM and burg for debuffs, already have lots of tanks. I think it would add more interest to the beorning as a dps class.

Beorning is already a good healer. (provided Minstrel mains dont complain. Keep the established healers so they are all viable, RK, beorning, and minstrel. Been seeing too much crying about minis going to be a useless class. Mini will always be viable, the beorning has NOT for most of its life so shove off and let the devs balance all three healers. Minstrel do NOT need to be the most OP healer simply because it was the first healer. Stop being whinnies about it, needs more variety in the healing role anyway.) I feel like this needed to be addressed.

If you wanna criticize my points go ahead, im open to ideas.

Thanks for all the changes thus far. Hopefully all further changes are made logically.

Posted this in ( Red line and bear form vs man form ) Thought it had alot of valid points so i posted in this thread too. Checkout mentioned thread for context before you criticize.

[morrthe]

@Aelbryht Thrash AoE might affect our AoE in a way that we wont need bleed spreads. But i think it is very unlikely, Thrash is mainly used for 15% damg buff (5% for each tier) Isnt really used for anything but buff unless your fighting more then 1 enemy. Thrash t1 has minor damage, almost the same as slash initial damage (Share same CD after all). t2 is a little more then armor crush. T3 is where all the damage is, but it isnt really worth it for anything besides initial buff. T3 has such a long animation that i need to use vicious claws to compensate for the agonizingly slow attack duration. Usually vicious claws is already on CD, so making each tier of thrash reduce CD of RM would make me have to use viscous claws for thrash t3 (which im fine with). I think it would be more useful if Thrash reduced the CD of biting edge, rather then relentless maul. Cause i only ever use RM with 100% crit, for dps. Have biting edge bleed duration increased so we can have it on 100% of the time, or reduce CD for each use of thrash, to have the same result.

Agreed Festering wounds needs to apply to all bleeds. Claw swipe still needs to be accessible by red skill for wrath dumping. (Ive reconsidered it as a universal skill, i dont know how they would make it useful in yellow. Needs to be in red all the same) I wouldn't mind just having claw swipe in blues current form and having biting edge spread your bleed as you suggested. But my point i was making in my last post in this thread; Biting edge has the best bleed damage of the beorning. if it spreads bleed it will probably loose its own bleed. As i said its the best bleed beornings have right now. (im fine with it, IF it keeps its bleed) Only thing i would change on biting edge right now is give its bleed a longer duration, (or reduce CD every time thrash is used as i stated above. This way we could possibly have biting edge on 100% of the time.) Have claw swipe spread bleeds,(or completely new skill) or in a certain situation have bash spread the bleed. (or some other skill/skills) For example we could have swipe be swipe, and have something like after the third tier of slash, the next use of bash or biting edge or maybe even execute to spread the bleeds. (Which might be a way of making executes wrath cost worth it. Having a higher bleed crit magnitude the higher the wrath cost would be an interesting addition.)

The reasoning of why we wanted Swipe in red, was a place to dump wrath and add more to the rotation of the class. If it isnt plainly obvious we need more skills on the beorning in general. Swipe was just a suggestion, we could keep it exclusively blue (add more to blue line this way) and add a completely different skill that spreads bleeds. Just as long as we have a way of wrath dumping. Wrathful (+3% crit chance for every 20 wrath) i think this trait would become less useful if we have all the wrath dumps. So i would keep its current values (maybe lower a little bit for the next proposition) Make it have crit magnitude as well so while our wrath dumping skills are on CD, we can still maintain our dps through another means. ( nothing too huge like 15% crit magnitude would be a good amount.)

Im very skeptical of any suggestions of removing bleeds to spread bleeds. Because the main component of beornings dps is BLEEDs. So if we take one away to benefit the others, i think it would affect beornings overall dps more in a negative way than positive. We just need a way of spreading it Without taking one of the main things of our DPS. So new skills is probably the most positive way of fixing our wrath problems and making beorning able to do AoE.

Call to wilds buff needs to be something other than mast and wrath generator. This skill would be more useful if it was crit magnitude like dsltn07 said. (Keep it balanced with above crit mag.) If we have wrath dumps skills this could be used to get full wrath to take advantage of Wrathful trait. ( keep wrath generator aspect.) The legacy would have to redone, make the mastery a permanent bonus and have more then just 7K, OR redo the legacy for crit mag. Base skill can be like 20% (crit mag) and the legacy would add another 25-45%. Pre imbuement should make it to like 30% (10% bonus). Would be 60% at full wrath. (which is still less than alot of the other crit multiplier legacies of other classes, mainly burg and hunter.)

Execute might be fixed if its bonus wrath damage is 250%. If it still isnt fixed Even With the 250%, than i totally agree that it needs to act as merciful shot does. Or just make it like it was before with proc and crit.

Im open to criticism. I like to hear other peoples point of view. The only way were gonna make this class a good class again, is by hearing each others concerns.

Originally post in Red line and bear form vs man form. Before criticism starts read said thread for context.

[lludd]

ability damage difference. 2hand weapon level mainstat upgrade from 60 to 63

[Calenyavie]

I just hoped back on my Beorning, having been gone for a year. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I saw a lot of great input from players here, and these problems still persist today. Execute needs a complete re-work, it is absolutely counter to the new design of red line. A lot of our legacies need re-working. Blue line block is extremely underwhelming. Flavour wise, I don't understand the move to heavy armour, thematically and lore-wise, it makes no sense. Beornings are not metal workers. I appreciate the attempt at improving the class, but a lot of the changes seems like a hopeful shotgun blast in the dark.

[Mukor]

I just hoped back on my Beorning, having been gone for a year. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I saw a lot of great input from players here, and these problems still persist today. Execute needs a complete re-work, it is absolutely counter to the new design of red line. A lot of our legacies need re-working. Blue line block is extremely underwhelming. Flavour wise, I don't understand the move to heavy armour, thematically and lore-wise, it makes no sense. Beornings are not metal workers. I appreciate the attempt at improving the class, but a lot of the changes seems like a hopeful shotgun blast in the dark.

Block is for all tanks equal atm. Nothing worth. Mits and morale is all you need as a tank atm.
Heavy armour doesn´t fit lore-wise but they do it cause it was asked for more defense now you got mit cap is 60% + bonuses instead of 50%.