No Special Time-Gated Legendary Challenger Title as Promised @SSG

[LotroVidz]

I think even though the morale is very high, all instances in Mirkwood and "In their Absence" are possible in T2CM (I already done them) except maybe some Challenges in Ost Dunhoth. But since I did not try OD T2 yet, I cant say for sure.
Why nerf something, if its not really tested yet. (Except someone already knows whats up, but I doubt that). The morale should stay where it is right now.

Isnt tested? Just try run a 3man in t2 with this high amount of morale. It's not just t2c raids but also 3mans and 6 mans. Insane amount of morale isnt more challenge, just more tedious. Running an instance with dpsers with capped mastery and it's still an extremely tedious process.

The reason I have always loved Lotro is because bosses and trash doesnt feel like morale sponges, that has changed in lotros later days.

[Vanyaerunanethiel]

Isnt tested? Just try run a 3man in t2 with this high amount of morale. It's not just t2c raids but also 3mans and 6 mans. Insane amount of morale isnt more challenge, just more tedious. Running an instance with dpsers with capped mastery and it's still an extremely tedious process.

The reason I have always loved Lotro is because bosses and trash doesnt feel like morale sponges, that has changed in lotros later days.

It was even slower in the past. It is a mental challenge. The longer your fight a foe the greater chance one can do a mistake. Incorrect. If you have formidable group with high DPS and players who know their classes extremely well it goes rapidly. Majority of players will never know the true horrors and tedious process. The word tedious is said so lightly these days.

In ages past it took hours and hours to clear trash, on much slower pace in comparison to the modern LOTRO due to lower DPS, attack speed and less skills on disposal.

There might be several challenges preventing even experienced and top geared {currently} raid to finish it , but generally speaking it is not tedious. There are few true warriors left in Middle-Earth and will rather bail out,complain and quit after several fail attempts.

Typical community. Early Moria was easy mode. Agreed, indeed, they bumped up morale, you complained. They now did increased damage and morale and it is tedious suddenly. Learn to get the most of your class in both defensive and offensive aspect and before you accuse ,bash, lash and unleash negativity, do everything in your power to succeed.

It took far longer to complete any 3, 6 man or 12 man raid in 2011, most of the souls have forgotten or have not played at the release.

Real warriors are tested in fire and under pressure when things do not get in their favour. Complete or least attempt to find a group of dedicated players willing to finish the possible content for now.

But naturally tis easy to create forum thread and demand eventual nerfs, they are needed only to the point they are completely shattering the challenge and preventing the completion.

[Isdryal]

I think even though the morale is very high, all instances in Mirkwood and "In their Absence" are possible in T2CM (I already done them) except maybe some Challenges in Ost Dunhoth. But since I did not try OD T2 yet, I cant say for sure.
Why nerf something, if its not really tested yet. (Except someone already knows whats up, but I doubt that). The morale should stay where it is right now.

Agreed

[LotroVidz]

1. If you have formidable group with high DPS and players who know their classes extremely well it goes rapidly.
2. In ages past it took hours and hours to clear trash, on much slower pace in comparison to the modern LOTRO due to lower DPS, attack speed and less skills on disposal.
3. There might be several challenges preventing even experienced and top geared {currently} raid to finish it , but generally speaking it is not tedious.
4. Typical community. Early Moria was easy mode. Agreed, indeed, they bumped up morale, you complained.
5. It took far longer to complete any 3, 6 man or 12 man raid in 2011, most of the souls have forgotten or have not played at the release.
6. But naturally tis easy to create forum thread and demand eventual nerfs, they are needed only to the point they are completely shattering the challenge and preventing the completion

You type so much in a single post I made it to a list so I can answer it properly xD

1. I have played with some old Lotro veterans, and I can confirm that it takes way longer to kill trash and bosses than it did in 2011.(You know there is video footage?)
2. It could certainly take hours and hours, but the reason for it to take "hours" back in the day wasn't because of huge morale pools, it was because people failed at tactics. Right now if you do everything right, it will still take a long time cus everything dies too slow.
3. As people have said, some ITA instances have timed challenges, even if you do everything right with decent DPS it can fail, again due to huge moral pools.
4. Don't categorize me into the player bunch who wanted Moria instances to be nerfed LOL. I think DN bosses could even have had more morale, and definitely the 6-mans, but we don't have to overkill it like in these 65 t2's.
5. I have tons of examples, but let's take Morgaraf & Cargaraf as an example. These bosses take closer to 30 minutes to kill on LS. Here is a vid from 2011, they kill it in 10mins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxEox_kAhzo
6. Just pointing out the issues, I'm actually not demanding it... Should we not express our concerns?


Another example from 2011:
Stoneheight T2 : First boss dies in 2,30 minutes : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN2CMtyaM00

Back then, a blue ring mob inside an instance died as fast as on landscape. Right now in T2, a blue-ring has 3x the amount of morale from T1. Just make it 1,5x or maybe 2x,, not 3 IMO.

[Laubgaenger]

Not very popular, but i think the raid is very nice.
We had to switch mates on the 3 mumak run ways od OD.
At least i had fun the first 2-3 wipes at the trees, by people that do not want unterstand to attack theire tree first after the rez.

There are many people that do not know the raid and we have to use mechanics again.
I think it is a good idea that (maybes except the expoiters) the common player does not solve at the first day the T2CM.

I want to have a good time in BG and OD and not a farmstatus after a week.
We did yesterday with a pug OD in T1 complete and i think with a good base you can pick many randoms again.
(OC they are willing to read the skills - in special the forcetaunts)

Atm i do not know how to wok on the Tac Mits.

1st Age Items.
Nice idea to give it in raids - as i was in the past too.
Think that is the highest loot we could get (next to setitems and special items as Baingrist or so).
But to be fair - do we need it?
if you manage T2cm without it, it would only do it the next time easier.

atm you cant solve T2CM on Bosses that have a timer on it, but let us see if we can do it on an other way as crying for nerf - that it looks like.

Question to you Raider:
What about Classguides?
Here the Legendary Servers miss a lot.
As i can keep as Captain in Red often the aggro against Hunters i think someones with good Hunter knowledge should give some tips and a nice rota as well to the mostplayed, but not good played class world wide. (As Hunter Noob i am very interested in a Red one).

The Raids on the Legendary server are not only for the Raider - all want here some fun and should be able to see it.
The Raider know it - or not? How long we stay and played that Raids - think up to the next update, or?

[Onyi]

I agree with Vanya, Instances took very long and whilst reasons are different it is not comparable, still.

As opposed to 5h Fornost runs during SoA we cleared Lost Temple T2C yesterday in 2h 30min, including about 6 wipes. Once polished a good group can clear Temple in less than 1h, which is on the low end of what I’d deem acceptable for a 6man dungeon.

Regarding 3mans:

NFC T2C cleared in about 1h with 3 wipes and one member quitting/joining, easily pushed down to 30min or less if played clean. Same for Stoneheight T2C.

I am sorry, but none of these times are anything close to problematic.

Now regarding moral-buffs: I agree that morale-buffs alone are a “lazy way” of increasing difficulty. But that is not the case here, outgoing damage, resistance rating, all have been buffed. This is the most difficult content ever available on the LS and honestly, I’d judge it even more difficult than original 65, which is perfect because we had years upon years to get better as players.

Apart from OD T2C and potentially Sari Surma T2C everything has been cleared, in very appropriate times. Give the community more time to test and adapt before debating difficulty on under-researched content.

[Daenirion]

So I haven't yet tested the Instances myself, but this sounds like what we've been asking for for the last 8 months or so regarding difficulty. It's more exciting when there's unbeaten content out there. I was hoping that they wouldn't release Enedwaith and the ITA cluster at launch, but at least OD T2C hasn't been cleared yet. Kinda sad that the same people who've been asking for more challenging content, are also the ones asking for a nerf. Now obviously insane morale pools =/= challenging, but saying that it's impossible is probably an overstatement. Give it time. Remember when it took more than a month to get a first kill? Good times.

This could've been the best LS patch so far, if there were actual gear progression. Too late for that though I guess.

I think seals should be added back to the Isengard instance cluster. It would make sense for both the live servers and the LS.

[Tybur]

Could you also check with the devs if there is any chance we will see the original loot in T1/T2C instances? =)

Also, what's up with BG set? Is it possible that you can make the gear drop inside the raid, or make the coins drop inside so we can barter it from the class trainer in Mirkwood?

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

[LotroVidz]

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

That is great to hear Tybur! Ty for responding =)

[Isdryal]

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

We completed the Mirkwood cluster on T1 and got the title 'Nemesis of the Necromancer'.

We also completed the mirkwood cluster T2C and received lelgendary challenger of the necromancers stronghold' but only after logging in today.

Great to hear we are getting the old loot back


Editting: Since title is put in all of a sudden

[LotroVidz]

This could've been the best LS patch so far, if there were actual gear progression. Too late for that though I guess.

There is gear progression at 65, as long as you don't have good level-60 gear from Moria. Because if you have good level 60 gear from Moria, you already have capped stats(more or less) Mastery is easily overcapped with 60 gear.
There is literally no need to get 65 gear if you capped your stats in Moria, which was very easy to do. Its kind of sad hitting level 65 and still have capped mastery with level 60 gear.

Something must have gone wrong during development because this wasn't the case back in SOM days, you would not have capped damage ratings with old 60 gear. It takes away the progression of improving your character, especially if you are a DPS class.

Will 17k be mastery cap for Isengard as well, that is the question.

[Eruadarion]

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

I currently have very little interest in the Legendary Server. But if you could bring back the original level 65 loot tables of the In Their Absence and Dol Guldur instances, then I'd most likely start actively playing on the LS.

[Isdryal]

I currently have very little interest in the Legendary Server. But if you could bring back the original level 65 loot tables of the In Their Absence and Dol Guldur instances, then I'd most likely start actively playing on the LS.

Hyped for Avorthalier on LS.

[Onyi]

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

Absolutely amazing news! Let’s do this!

[Laubgaenger]

There is gear progression at 65, as long as you don't have good level-60 gear from Moria. Because if you have good level 60 gear from Moria, you already have capped stats(more or less) Mastery is easily overcapped with 60 gear.
There is literally no need to get 65 gear if you capped your stats in Moria, which was very easy to do. Its kind of sad hitting level 65 and still have capped mastery with level 60 gear.

Something must have gone wrong during development because this wasn't the case back in SOM days, you would not have capped damage ratings with old 60 gear. It takes away the progression of improving your character, especially if you are a DPS class.

Will 17k be mastery cap for Isengard as well, that is the question.

In Elder Days you had a Attributecap of 10x your level.
I used a lot of Moriastuff in Mirkwood.

The Increasement to Isengard was much more as 10 Level.

[Laubgaenger]

I currently have very little interest in the Legendary Server. But if you could bring back the original level 65 loot tables of the In Their Absence and Dol Guldur instances, then I'd most likely start actively playing on the LS.

No a bad idea, someone has to lead the troll raid at 85 :-)

[icefriend]

I really hate to complain but was the entire server farming t1 durchest really the best way to go about fixing things

[Isdryal]

I really hate to complain but was the entire server farming t1 durchest really the best way to go about fixing things

no, but too late to change it now so RIP

[LotroVidz]

Who took the horrible decision to add 10locks per chest in BG/OD? Wasn't it obvious that people would just farm the first boss in SG 10 times a day to get the FA? Should have been 1lock per chest in the t1 raids to encourage people to complete the raids. Now people just farm the first boss -.-! This should be common knowledge by now SSG! Why do you keep making these mistakes?

For the next legendary release, if there are any players left, please ask the community what they want before you implement things like this.

[Vanyaerunanethiel]

Yea I was wrong about "Classic loot" and FA symbols ,thank the Vala finally I can be wrong as well. It took me few years to fail. You added the FA in in-proper way.

A great mistake once more. The Barad Guldur has no locks at all{if you wish to count locks 10 times of Durchest repetition} and it is the farm fest every day to obtain first age symbols which are incredibly easy to obtain. I had 2 within 2 days and We had 5 ,yes 5 FA symbols from Lieutenant. Its all about the loot. Few players care to finish the entire raid/challenge even read the lore and Festivals are the great distraction as well. Thrang pocket item is nothing but lottery. I am against the RNG and pure luck needed to obtain certain items. I cannot wait for summer festival to end. The Morale increase is enormous and scaling is completely messed up. The gear for example I am still using 60 set for tanking. I am a tank class {Guardian} not the DPS. I do not wish the Mastery on Teal armour. The ability of mobs to avoid so many attacks does not make sense at all. I know several of players with huge finesse witnessing full evasion,blocks and parries. It never happened nor I am willing to spend 5-7 hours + in BG Tier II to finish it and we had the group 6 players bailed up due to RL. How many groups can? I can I am willing, but I will tell you openly for now, one or two kins might on Ithil and it is even doubtful. Half of night to clear Tier IIc. The sheer morale increase and some instant one shots are cheap. It is called the artificial difficulty, It is not a challenge nor thrill or joy. It is a lazy mechanics and will do nothing but to either frustrate or discourage a lot of players of moving forward.


The dedicated and hardcore team is so tiny, few will and did Tier IIc I m going to give you an example on Ithil. 2 groups for now only did Tier IIC Sammanth Gul. I was one of them. 90% are not even willing to try Tier II raid finding it too long to complete. And those who did said : Was hours of pain , maybe never again. It was mind numbing and tiresome,surely the challenge felt good, but it felt if we faced arifitical difficutly with foes having 300% additional morale and hitting high as Vala even on Tanks or to rely on dumb luck and hope boss wont spam non curable dot,bleed or fear you. There is a notable difference between a proper challenge and absurdity. Nobody else did Tier II raid not because they are incapable but do not have time or investment and are discouraged with enormous difference of Tier I ~ II and how certain mechanics work in particular challenges , not to mention huge amount of Trash in BG or Wound wing in OD which is simply distancing players away.

Let us look at Tier IIc Ost Dunhoth or Thrang Tier II. I do not want to say it is impossible. I am sure both servers will do it at some point,. Nobody can survive the Thrang Onslaught on Legendary and one will need nearly perfectly coordinated group with top DPS to complete entire raid with RNG and luck on your side as well. It is not the right approach. I love the way the raids are now compared to Moria, but again you have to understand the Morale,scaling and certain damage even from Tier I is simply unacceptable.


Standing Stone Games you are going from one extreme to another,Either it is too easy or nigh impossible or extremely tedious/draining. It was absolutely not at Original release. I have finished entire Ost-Dunhoth and Barad Guldur at level 65 and the instances were in the messed up state as they were right now. I always loved to test myself but I am not going to test myself against 40,000+ Damage attacks as an example or try to find a group or waste gigantic amount of energy of finishing raid with so few interested or spend hours and hours praying to Vala not be feared by boss or dying of 25,000+ attack on 70% mits with Tome of Defence on though its partially community to blame. I have noticed the lack of determination and rage quit in raids or players not willing to work as team,Nevertheless you should scale down the amount of morale in Tier II instances,fix our finesse and give the tanks the proper Tanking setup not only in raids but 3&6 man as well. But if we are honest sometimes is hard to blame players too if they quit if we judge everything accordingly.

[LotroVidz]

Yea I was wrong about "Classic loot" and FA symbols ,thank the Vala finally I can be wrong as well. It took me few years to fail. You added the FA in in-proper way.

A great mistake once more. The Barad Guldur has no locks at all{if you wish to count locks 10 times of Durchest repetition} and it is the farm fest every day to obtain first age symbols which are incredibly easy to obtain. I had 2 within 2 days and We had 5 ,yes 5 FA symbols from Lieutenant. Its all about the loot. Few players care to finish the entire raid/challenge even read the lore and Festivals are the great distraction as well. Thrang pocket item is nothing but lottery. I am against the RNG and pure luck needed to obtain certain items. I cannot wait for summer festival to end. The Morale increase is enormous and scaling is completely messed up. The gear for example I am still using 60 set for tanking. I am a tank class {Guardian} not the DPS. I do not wish the Mastery on Teal armour. The ability of mobs to avoid so many attacks does not make sense at all. I know several of players with huge finesse witnessing full evasion,blocks and parries. It never happened nor I am willing to spend 5-7 hours + in BG Tier II to finish it and we had the group 6 players bailed up due to RL. How many groups can? I can I am willing, but I will tell you openly for now, one or two kins might on Ithil and it is even doubtful. Half of night to clear Tier IIc. The sheer morale increase and some instant one shots are cheap. It is called the artificial difficulty, It is not a challenge nor thrill or joy. It is a lazy mechanics and will do nothing but to either frustrate or discourage a lot of players of moving forward.


The dedicated and hardcore team is so tiny, few will and did Tier IIc I m going to give you an example on Ithil. 2 groups for now only did Tier IIC Sammanth Gul. I was one of them. 90% are not even willing to try Tier II raid finding it too long to complete. And those who did said : Was hours of pain , maybe never again. It was mind numbing and tiresome,surely the challenge felt good, but it felt if we faced arifitical difficutly with foes having 300% additional morale and hitting high as Vala even on Tanks or to rely on dumb luck and hope boss wont spam non curable dot,bleed or fear you. There is a notable difference between a proper challenge and absurdity. Nobody else did Tier II raid not because they are incapable but do not have time or investment and are discouraged with enormous difference of Tier I ~ II and how certain mechanics work in particular challenges , not to mention huge amount of Trash in BG or Wound wing in OD which is simply distancing players away.

Let us look at Tier IIc Ost Dunhoth or Thrang Tier II. I do not want to say it is impossible. I am sure both servers will do it at some point,. Nobody can survive the Thrang Onslaught on Legendary and one will need nearly perfectly coordinated group with top DPS to complete entire raid with RNG and luck on your side as well. It is not the right approach. I love the way the raids are now compared to Moria, but again you have to understand the Morale,scaling and certain damage even from Tier I is simply unacceptable.


Standing Stone Games you are going from one extreme to another,Either it is too easy or nigh impossible or extremely tedious/draining. It was absolutely not at Original release. I have finished entire Ost-Dunhoth and Barad Guldur at level 65 and the instances were in the messed up state as they were right now. I always loved to test myself but I am not going to test myself against 40,000+ Damage attacks as an example or try to find a group or waste gigantic amount of energy of finishing raid with so few interested or spend hours and hours praying to Vala not be feared by boss or dying of 25,000+ attack on 70% mits with Tome of Defence on though its partially community to blame. I have noticed the lack of determination and rage quit in raids or players not willing to work as team,Nevertheless you should scale down the amount of morale in Tier II instances,fix our finesse and give the tanks the proper Tanking setup not only in raids but 3&6 man as well. But if we are honest sometimes is hard to blame players too if they quit if we judge everything accordingly.

That's how it goes when SSG refuse to let players test stuff before it gets released. They have no idea how to scale their own game -.-! Mirkwood could have been the best expansion release on LS if it was done right.

I find it funny that they didn't re-introduce proper locks in BG/OD... raids that take like 6hours to complete, without locks lol!

Let's hope SSG abandon the idea with more than two tiers of difficulty for instances in the future.. THEY CANT handle it.

[sapienze]

That's how it goes when SSG refuse to let players test stuff before it gets released. They have no idea how to scale their own game -.-! Mirkwood could have been the best expansion release on LS if it was done right.

I find it funny that they didn't re-introduce proper locks in BG/OD... raids that take like 6hours to complete, without locks lol!

Let's hope SSG abandon the idea with more than two tiers of difficulty for instances in the future.. THEY CANT handle it.

SSG should abandon the LS idea all together and stop wasting time and resources.

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-anor.php

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-ithil.php

Lowest numbers I've seen to date. It's time to send this horse to the glue factory and have SSG put their time back onto the old servers.

[Hallandil]

SSG should abandon the LS idea all together and stop wasting time and resources.

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-anor.php

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-ithil.php

Lowest numbers I've seen to date. It's time to send this horse to the glue factory and have SSG put their time back onto the old servers.

Mirkwood had no announcement outside of the livestream nor a trailer on Youtube like Moria did. Players got an official announcement (the livestream "maybe next week" does not count) 24-hours prior to its launch. For anyone who jumped ship to play something in the meanwhile, they'd have no clue Mirkwood is even out yet.

A silent game is a dead game. Nuff said.

[Hallandil]

That's how it goes when SSG refuse to let players test stuff before it gets released. They have no idea how to scale their own game -.-! Mirkwood could have been the best expansion release on LS if it was done right.

I find it funny that they didn't re-introduce proper locks in BG/OD... raids that take like 6hours to complete, without locks lol!

Let's hope SSG abandon the idea with more than two tiers of difficulty for instances in the future.. THEY CANT handle it.

level 65 raids shouldn't take 6 hours. If it does, you're doing something wrong.

Ost Dunhoth doesn't need locks because it's split into wings, Barad Guldur isn't a particularly long raid, especially as there's no longer a need to physically reach the keep outside.

There's chest locks, not raid locks. Scaling isn't amazing but it's better than how Moria was handled. It honestly sounds like you haven't even logged onto Anor and just pulling observations out of thin-air.

[Rimenuir]

level 65 raids shouldn't take 6 hours. If it does, you're doing something wrong.

Ost Dunhoth doesn't need locks because it's split into wings, Barad Guldur isn't a particularly long raid, especially as there's no longer a need to physically reach the keep outside.

There's chest locks, not raid locks. Scaling isn't amazing but it's better than how Moria was handled. It honestly sounds like you haven't even logged onto Anor and just pulling observations out of thin-air.

Its taken most groups 4 hours to run BG t2c. Now, my kin hasnt run it in a while as we're focusing on OD currently, but t2c BG takes some time.