Amazon’s making a new Lord of the Rings MMO

[Gildoriel]

It's a PC/Console MMORPG. That much has already been stated.

Oh, that's great then - really looking forward to it in that case

[Nebless]

For those saying the new LotR MMO in development won't affect LotRO because they are going to be set in different time frames I wouldn't quite hold that to heart. Star Wars Galaxies was killed off right before Star Wars the Old Republic launched and both games, while being MMO's, had distinctively different design and gameplay mechanics and were set in completely different time periods. Still didn't save Star Wars Galaxies (which was a better MMO than SWTOR in my mind). I am not proclaiming the death of LotRO by any means, but it is entirely possible that there will not be two competing LotR MMO's when the Amazon one comes out.

I think if you sat down the Lucas people that killed SWG in favor of SWToR now and asked them if that was the right move they probably wouldn't agree. At the time I'm sure it seemed like a smart decision, but now with 2 D&D games running at the same time ...... I think most have a broader idea of how much the market will bear.

[Nymphonic]

For those saying the new LotR MMO in development won't affect LotRO because they are going to be set in different time frames I wouldn't quite hold that to heart. Star Wars Galaxies was killed off right before Star Wars the Old Republic launched and both games, while being MMO's, had distinctively different design and gameplay mechanics and were set in completely different time periods. Still didn't save Star Wars Galaxies (which was a better MMO than SWTOR in my mind). I am not proclaiming the death of LotRO by any means, but it is entirely possible that there will not be two competing LotR MMO's when the Amazon one comes out.

Totally different scenario. Star Wars Galaxies had driven away a good part of its customer base with the Combat upgrade and New Game Experience, and by the time they got everything ironed out and running smoothly, too many people had left already.

Yeah, numbers have gone down in LOTRO, but it's not even close to what happened with SWG. There's a good chance SWG would have closed without SWTOR.

[cdq1958]

Totally different scenario. Star Wars Galaxies had driven away a good part of its customer base with the Combat upgrade and New Game Experience, and by the time they got everything ironed out and running smoothly, too many people had left already.

Yeah, numbers have gone down in LOTRO, but it's not even close to what happened with SWG. There's a good chance SWG would have closed without SWTOR.

As one who was there at the time, I'm not so sure. SWG was down to its core. As a niche game within SOE, I say they'd have kept it going. Only EA killed it by getting Lucas Arts to give them an exclusive license, despite the different timelines/settings, in my opinion. People, I think, forget that there was a 'cash shop' of a sorts, in SWG at the time, via the Trading Card Game. Sure, TOR would have likely hurt their numbers for a time; yet not necessarily fatally nor permanently. Of the two games, and I am a founder in TOR, SWG was *much* better, even after the CU and NGE, at least for me. I would not be surprised to know, today, that LotRO's numbers, overall, compare favoably to TOR's; even though TOR is a few years younger.

[Nebless]

As one who was there at the time, I'm not so sure. SWG was down to its core. As a niche game within SOE, I say they'd have kept it going. Only EA killed it by getting Lucas Arts to give them an exclusive license, despite the different timelines/settings, in my opinion. People, I think, forget that there was a 'cash shop' of a sorts, in SWG at the time, via the Trading Card Game. Sure, TOR would have likely hurt their numbers for a time; yet not necessarily fatally nor permanently. Of the two games, and I am a founder in TOR, SWG was *much* better, even after the CU and NGE, at least for me. I would not be surprised to know, today, that LotRO's numbers, overall, compare favoably to TOR's; even though TOR is a few years younger.

Pretty much the same. Frankly those that go on about how the pop tanked when the NGE came in; while correct, fail to acknowledge that a different kind of player than came into the game. While in no way, shape or form the same numbers as the original version of the game. Those new players could have kept the game going in the SOE stable.

While it wasn't the same game any more after NGE came in, it wasn't destroyed, just not what the original players wanted to play although I know of a number that kept on playing.

[Nymphonic]

As one who was there at the time, I'm not so sure. SWG was down to its core. As a niche game within SOE, I say they'd have kept it going. Only EA killed it by getting Lucas Arts to give them an exclusive license, despite the different timelines/settings, in my opinion. People, I think, forget that there was a 'cash shop' of a sorts, in SWG at the time, via the Trading Card Game. Sure, TOR would have likely hurt their numbers for a time; yet not necessarily fatally nor permanently. Of the two games, and I am a founder in TOR, SWG was *much* better, even after the CU and NGE, at least for me. I would not be surprised to know, today, that LotRO's numbers, overall, compare favoably to TOR's; even though TOR is a few years younger.

Pretty much the same. Frankly those that go on about how the pop tanked when the NGE came in; while correct, fail to acknowledge that a different kind of player than came into the game. While in no way, shape or form the same numbers as the original version of the game. Those new players could have kept the game going in the SOE stable.

While it wasn't the same game any more after NGE came in, it wasn't destroyed, just not what the original players wanted to play although I know of a number that kept on playing.

I miss that game. Best MMO I ever played. Having parties on a space yacht while looking at a planet below was beyond awesome.

[ReppinGod]

Honestly you guys are crazy if you think this game won't be affected by another Lord of the rings MMO.

Honestly, I really switched to Chromebook for my laptop needs. I have a desktop at work, but I don't have enough space for a desktop anymore.

Even if I had a desktop at home, like most other people who game, my time is very limited.

I don't care if I'm playing a Lord of the rings game In this century or that century. If I have a choice between a 10-year-old MMO And a brand new MMO I'm picking the brand new MMO .

On top of that I'll be able to play on a console. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no question that LOTRO will be 100% maintenance mode if it still exists.

Honestly the goal at the beginning of LOTRO was to make it to Mordor. We are past Mordor and the ring, and as much as they could take the story further, the main story is pretty much over.

My old kinship and everyone that I knew that used to play this game doesn't play anymore. There are select few die hards and lifetime subscription members left, myself included, but again when my time is very limited I'm going to play a new Lord of the rings MMO any day of the week.

We all know this is the reality.

Let's say someone does have an extra 2 or 3 hours to game, Are they really going to split their time between a brand new Lord of the rings MMO and a 10-year-old Lord of the rings MMO? Realistically, if we are honest, they will get a little tired of the Lord of the rings world and maybe want to play a shooter game, or a sports game.

This is a realistic take. LOTRO, which I have loved for so long, has been wrapping up. And this other MMO will be the death of LOTRO. And for what it is worth, LOTRO is amazing, and I'm glad I invested the time I have into it. It has a great community, and it is a great game. Yes, if you are die hard enough to be on LOTRO forums right now, maybe you would play both, but if we are honest, that's few and far between.

On top of all this, LOTRO has an outdated F2P system. Fortnite is free with no paying required, only cosmetics, Star Wars the old republic is free, and you get the base game completely free, with full voice acting. LOTRO is pretending to be as popular as WoW, and they are giving your first 20 levels free, and pretty much forcing you to pay for zones afterwards. Don't act like everyone has time or wants to grind deeds for a month in order to play for free. Other games allow you to play for free without that. Elder scrolls online let's you buy the base game, which on eBay is like $5, and you can play the whole base game free.

LOTRO is still squeezing every dollar out because they know it's the end. Can't we be honest? If LOTRO was completely free, maybe, just maybe, it could survive longer in maintenance mode, but too many f2p games around. A second rate LOTRO MMO, especially with a brand new one out, just won't interest people

[WhiteWolf21x]

Honestly you guys are crazy if you think this game won't be affected by another Lord of the rings MMO.

I don't care if I'm playing a Lord of the rings game In this century or that century. If I have a choice between a 10-year-old MMO And a brand new MMO I'm picking the brand new MMO .

On top of that I'll be able to play on a console. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no question that LOTRO will be 100% maintenance mode if it still exists.

This is a realistic take. LOTRO, which I have loved for so long, has been wrapping up. And this other MMO will be the death of LOTRO. And for what it is worth, LOTRO is amazing, and I'm glad I invested the time I have into it. It has a great community, and it is a great game. Yes, if you are die hard enough to be on LOTRO forums right now, maybe you would play both, but if we are honest, that's few and far between.

On top of all this, LOTRO has an outdated F2P system. Fortnite is free with no paying required, only cosmetics, Star Wars the old republic is free, and you get the base game completely free, with full voice acting. LOTRO is pretending to be as popular as WoW, and they are giving your first 20 levels free, and pretty much forcing you to pay for zones afterwards. Don't act like everyone has time or wants to grind deeds for a month in order to play for free. Other games allow you to play for free without that. Elder scrolls online let's you buy the base game, which on eBay is like $5, and you can play the whole base game free.

LOTRO is still squeezing every dollar out because they know it's the end. Can't we be honest? If LOTRO was completely free, maybe, just maybe, it could survive longer in maintenance mode, but too many f2p games around. A second rate LOTRO MMO, especially with a brand new one out, just won't interest people

On paper, and in theory, you are correct. Lotro should be outclassed in every way to the new MMO.

However there are dozens, if not hundreds, of MMO's in the failed graveyard. Lotro is one of the exceptions as it has lasted 12+ years and it has lasted this long for several reasons.

Amazon's MMO is NOT a guaranteed success, nor is it guaranteed to be better than Lotro. If this new MMO releases and is designed poorly, and the f2p model is deeply linked to gameplay, there are performance issues or even lore-breaking moments then you will see another second rate Lotr MMO, or even another MMO added to the graveyard.

I don't know about you but I don't want another second rate Lotr MMO. I think a Lotr IP MMO can be the best MMO every made if done correctly. Lotro was a decent first attempt and we will have to see what Amazon's vision is. Personally I want a Lotro 2.0, I have a good vision for it and would love to see it made. If only I had the money to buy SSG and make it lol.

As a Lotr and MMO fan I will probably play both. Looking forward to see what Amazon has to offer.

Also I don't think Lotro ever shuts down. Worst case it will go down to 2 servers and total maintenance.

[Phantion]

Yes, and right now, LOTRO still has one advantage already: The Story.

Amazon's MMO sounds like A- it'll be a prequel, and B- with that clause "never seen before" or "never before seen by fans," they really are taking the ultimate risk, because they are making it sound like this new MMO will not only be set in the past, but off-book. That's a tremendous risk given what "Shadow of Mordor" and its sequel "Shadow of War" did, even though they were not MMO's. At first, they seemed cool from a distance, I thought of trying them, but as soon as I saw those cinematics on youtube of High Elves possessing humans and turning them into half-wraiths and Entish-nature creatures fighting Balrogs and somehow not burning-up and this business with Shelob having a humanoid form- that............. turned me off.

Some players are still here because they still care about the story of LOTR. This idea of wrapping something that has nothing to do with LOTR with the marketing of a LOTR game, other than loosely set in Middle-earth, sounds very suspicious to me as a player. I'll wait and see what Amazon does, I won't pre-judge, and I'll probably try it out when it launches, but..................... the idea of going beyond-beyond-beyond can be concerning.

LOTRO will also be foraging into beyond-beyond-beyond territory too, most likely, but there will be one key difference: LOTRO is driven to follow the Lore in most cases, and is driven to represent each new zone with lore accuracy, based primarily on what Tolkien wrote. They read the Appendices at the end of ROTK closely and pay attention to them- they took the narrow Vales of Anduin and managed to cover part of Rohan's origins, Radagast's doings, the Beornings, Gollum's history, Isildur's downfall, and the Ring-Lore at large, with some foreshadowing concerning Sharkey as well.

They don't go "off-book" in LOTRO- and where they do, its notable exceptions, not the norm. I bet that even if we head out to Rhun, Harad, or Khand, LOTRO will still be focusing on building those zones from what we know, not just winging it and doing whatever.

I believe this is why LOTRO has lasted for so long: its Devs actually -care- about the story they are telling and its source material, and I think folks recognize this. I'm not saying Amazon doesn't or won't- maybe its just a marketing error on their part. We will see.......... I know, in a Middle-earth-based MMO, as a player, I tend to want -actual- Middle-earth first before foraying to stuff "never before seen" by me.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Another advantage Lotro has is being the first MMO to add a music system and play with others sharing what you made. who knows amazon might try this as well.

[sapienze]

Yes, and right now, LOTRO still has one advantage already: The Story.

Amazon's MMO sounds like A- it'll be a prequel, and B- with that clause "never seen before" or "never before seen by fans," they really are taking the ultimate risk, because they are making it sound like this new MMO will not only be set in the past, but off-book. That's a tremendous risk given what "Shadow of Mordor" and its sequel "Shadow of War" did, even though they were not MMO's. At first, they seemed cool from a distance, I thought of trying them, but as soon as I saw those cinematics on youtube of High Elves possessing humans and turning them into half-wraiths and Entish-nature creatures fighting Balrogs and somehow not burning-up and this business with Shelob having a humanoid form- that............. turned me off.

Some players are still here because they still care about the story of LOTR. This idea of wrapping something that has nothing to do with LOTR with the marketing of a LOTR game, other than loosely set in Middle-earth, sounds very suspicious to me as a player. I'll wait and see what Amazon does, I won't pre-judge, and I'll probably try it out when it launches, but..................... the idea of going beyond-beyond-beyond can be concerning.

LOTRO will also be foraging into beyond-beyond-beyond territory too, most likely, but there will be one key difference: LOTRO is driven to follow the Lore in most cases, and is driven to represent each new zone with lore accuracy, based primarily on what Tolkien wrote. They read the Appendices at the end of ROTK closely and pay attention to them- they took the narrow Vales of Anduin and managed to cover part of Rohan's origins, Radagast's doings, the Beornings, Gollum's history, Isildur's downfall, and the Ring-Lore at large, with some foreshadowing concerning Sharkey as well.

They don't go "off-book" in LOTRO- and where they do, its notable exceptions, not the norm. I bet that even if we head out to Rhun, Harad, or Khand, LOTRO will still be focusing on building those zones from what we know, not just winging it and doing whatever.

I believe this is why LOTRO has lasted for so long: its Devs actually -care- about the story they are telling and its source material, and I think folks recognize this. I'm not saying Amazon doesn't or won't- maybe its just a marketing error on their part. We will see.......... I know, in a Middle-earth-based MMO, as a player, I tend to want -actual- Middle-earth first before foraying to stuff "never before seen" by me.

Lord of the Rings story and it progression is well known to millions and even more. This games story is near complete and imo should have been already completed. So, the advantage you speak of at this time becomes a disadvantage.

Where as the Leyou project as you pointed out is an unknown. Which could possibly be a never ending story. I'll have no issues with this because it wasn't inspired by a direct linear series of events, like LotRO is.

I make a clear distinction between the two.

Also, I read your rational about Radagast and I can't disagree more with you. At this point, all I see is longtime invested players making excuses about how LotR can be changed because this is a game and it must do so to maintain and survive. Sorry, But I can't have those maligned additions to "my" story as "I" know it to be written and imprinted onto my memory, of the greatest fiction ever written. Honestly its about as bad as hearing people and players think Tauriel was actually written into the trilogy. You know, the red headed Elf that every Lore person despises because she doesn't belong in the movie trilogy?

I prefer to have LotRO stick to the known lore. Not something, I will reflect upon in future years and say to myself. "Oh ya that was the company who ruined Lord of the Rings and place them upon the same stage as Peter Jackson." I'd really, really not see this scenario.


When I sum this up. I say, the Leyou project has limitless choices because they aren't in a predefined box. It looks like they have near everything to draw upon outside of LotR and I don't see how conceptually this is a disadvantage in any way. Oh btw, did I mention, they now have Amazon on their side?

[Phantion]

Lord of the Rings story and it progression is well known to millions and even more. This games story is near complete and imo should have been already completed. So, the advantage you speak of at this time becomes a disadvantage.

Where as the Leyou project as you pointed out is an unknown. Which could possibly be a never ending story. I'll have no issues with this because it wasn't inspired by a direct linear series of events, like LotRO is.

I make a clear distinction between the two.

Also, I read your rational about Radagast and I can't disagree more with you. At this point, all I see is longtime invested players making excuses about how LotR can be changed because this is a game and it must do so to maintain and survive. Sorry, But I can't have those maligned additions to "my" story as "I" know it to be written and imprinted onto my memory, of the greatest fiction ever written. Honestly its about as bad as hearing people and players think Tauriel was actually written into the trilogy. You know, the red headed Elf that every Lore person despises because she doesn't belong in the movie trilogy?

I prefer to have LotRO stick to the known lore. Not something, I will reflect upon in future years and say to myself. "Oh ya that was the company who ruined Lord of the Rings and place them upon the same stage as Peter Jackson." I'd really, really not see this scenario.


When I sum this up. I say, the Leyou project has limitless choices because they aren't in a predefined box. It looks like they have near everything to draw upon outside of LotR and I don't see how conceptually this is a disadvantage in any way. Oh btw, did I mention, they now have Amazon on their side?

I ironically disagree with myself in the other thread about Radagast. Yes, there are some significant issues with what they did there. Yes, it destroys the mysterious origins of the Beornings. Yes, I made some mistakes in my rationalization, and yes, they are crossing some lore lines. Sometimes, one has to write one's ideas out, watch others disagree with them, and then -see- their absurdity for oneself, retrospectively. That's just the nature of learning. Just because Radagast and the Beornings happen to share a Great River doesn't mean they necessarily had much to do with each other. At least they got the part about Radagast getting overly distracted by the needs of birds and beasts right- that is indeed in accordance with what Tolkien said happened to him and why he didn't sail West.

My skepticism toward Amazon really stems from two things: 1- I'm naturally overly cautious; 2- Disney's acquisition of "Star Wars" is a cautionary tale because it had mixed results both writing-wise and overall quality-wise. I liked some of the new things they did, I strongly disliked other things they did; it's just always a gamble when a huge monolith takes-over a story's franchise or IP, it can go either way, for good or ill. HBO with GoT is another example- mixed results, heavy fan reaction. It's always risky to take a book from the quiet environs of Oxford, UK, and turn it into something else. I just hope Amazon's interest is genuine, but the realist in me know's better.

Do not mistake me- I hold Tolkien's works as close to my heart as you do. I think we can both agree that we're both afraid of seeing his legacy get hurt. You're coming at it from the one side of the coin, I'm coming at it from the other. You're noticing the major lore mistakes this game has made, and if I'm reading you right, you are guarding your imagination from them. That's good Absolutely.

My biggest concern is that Amazon will basically make an MMO sequel to "Shadow of Mordor" or otherwise make a "Guild Wars 3" set in the unknown regions of Arda with the name Middle-earth placed on them. Will it be cool? I sure hope so. Will I play it? Probably. But am I afraid of what a game could do without being fettered by Tolkien's storyline? Yes- and I can cite many LOTR-based games as examples, from Gondorians fighting in the halls of Moria to Tom Bombadil dancing across a battlefield killing Orcs, to the various SoM examples I've already mentioned (fyi- those are "Third Age" and BFME II, both of which were also film-based).


Watching "Exploring LOTR" go on its field trips, I can't help but notice how many times LOTRO got it right, whether its the depictions of the Shire or Bree-land or the Arnorian ruins or Evendim or Eregion or Rivendell, and the list can go on and on and on.

Is it perfect? No. Dol Amroth could've used some different statues other than Elendil's head's spammed everywhere. I hope they'll revisit the visuals in Gondor's regions and start making those cities less generic and have their own unique character, with less gaudiness to them. Of course there are lore issues- there always will be in any adaptation; its in the nature of what it means to adapt. I hope that Amazon will -learn- from what happened with HBO and GoT and with Disney and SW- and maybe be a bit more cautious and mindful and, well, care, in how it tells its stories?

So I'll come to the middle and be more cautiously optimistic about Amazon's MMO- I really want to see Amazon do something great with the IP, not mess it up, and I hope we can agree on that.

[WhiteWolf21x]

When I sum this up. I say, the Leyou project has limitless choices because they aren't in a predefined box. It looks like they have near everything to draw upon outside of LotR and I don't see how conceptually this is a disadvantage in any way.

I may be misunderstanding you, but conceptually this puts Leyou at a huge disadvantage.

If you look at a timeline for Tolkien's Works, the only time period that is filled out in any detail is the War of the Ring period. Everything else, from Years of the Trees to 3A 2950, is so spread out and undetailed.

Say you want a first age game set during the war of wrath, the war of wrath lasted 32 years. You may think, 32 years! that's a lot of content, but our characters are going to live for 32 years while the world around them gets completely destroyed by the Valar? Don't think so.

Or maybe a 2nd age game? There is so little detailed during the 2nd age that there are 100 year gaps between events.

Any Lotr game set at any time other than War of the Ring would require an extraordinary amount of creative work. That may be a good thing, some cool new stories and such. But it also may be a bad thing, with Shadow of War type stories that make the Lore side of me want to cast those games into the Void. That immediately puts Leyou at a disadvantage because its 1: extra creative work, and 2: Its a greater chance at Retconning in something that doesn't fit at all with Tolkiens works. And losing the Lore fans that love play for Tolkiens world is a death blow for any Tolkien game.



I've been working on my vision for a Lotro 2.0. Its on the forums and you can view it if you want: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...or-a-Lotro-2-0

But what I would do is have the game take place a few years before Frodo leaves the Shire with the ring. The War hasn't broken out yet, but the pieces are moving. Saruman and Sauron are building their armies and there are skirmishes and things moving behind the scenes. Enough action to build a world around. I would then flesh out the entire world as one current world, not a timeline of events like we have now.

Then I would do a Cataclysm style Expansion where the entire landscape is transformed into the War of the Ring period and go from there. This way I extended the story enough to last 10-15 years and have plenty of content for players to do.

The last thing I would do is expand upon the lost lore quests. What I would do is add hundreds of lost lore quests based on all the past events in the 1st/2nd/3rd age and essentially have flashback-session plays. This allows players to see events like the Fall of Gondolin, War of Wrath, Sinking of Numenor etc, without having to completely build a world around them.



I expect Leyou/Amazon to figure this out at some point during development, if they haven't already. If you read the press releases they already stated that the game wont be linked to the tv show so 2nd age is thrown out the window. And there are some articles that state that the game will take place "leading up the years of the Lord of the Rings." My guess is that the game will take place sometime during the late 3rd age, maybe between the Hobbit and Lotr.


I will play either way, but we will see what happens.

[sapienze]

I may be misunderstanding you, but conceptually this puts Leyou at a huge disadvantage.

If you look at a timeline for Tolkien's Works, the only time period that is filled out in any detail is the War of the Ring period. Everything else, from Years of the Trees to 3A 2950, is so spread out and undetailed.

As I said in a previous post, I make a clear distinction.

The former being, LotR is linear and well defined and any MMO drawn upon this is as well. Well, imo it should be and its finality is already determined.

The latter being, all the history leading up to LotR isn't well defined and leaves a near eternity of choices that can travel well off of the known history and still stay within the tracks previously laid. Also having several ages to work with is a looooong time.



There is no way this is a disadvantage. There is always the possibility what you describe about Lore corruption can happen, but at this point it is all conjecture. I see no reason why its wrong to be optimistic about what can happen (A new Middle Earth MMO) vs. what has already been established (LotRO).

[WhiteWolf21x]

As I said in a previous post, I make a clear distinction.

The former being, LotR is linear and well defined and any MMO drawn upon this is as well. Well, imo it should be and its finality is already determined.

The latter being, all the history leading up to LotR isn't well defined and leaves a near eternity of choices that can travel well off of the known history and still stay within the tracks previously laid. Also having several ages to work with is a looooong time.



There is no way this is a disadvantage. There is always the possibility what you describe about Lore corruption can happen, but at this point it is all conjecture. I see no reason why its wrong to be optimistic about what can happen (A new Middle Earth MMO) vs. what has already been established (LotRO).

I get what you're saying. And from a story/setting stand point I agree that having all of Tolkien's work to pick from is better than having just the Trilogy/Appendicies/Hobbit that SSG has. (If that is indeed the case. We have no idea what the terms are for the game. We know that Amazon paid the Tolkien Estate a rather large amount to be allowed to make a second age TV show, and only a TV show. None of the articles stated the same for the game, only that ME Enterprises, not the Tolkien Estate, allowed Amazon/Layou to make a second MMO. They could be stuck with the same limits as SSG. Will have to wait and see.)


Why I say its a disadvantage is more based on the amount of work that is needed. A game based on the War of the Ring is easy because everything is already laid out in detail. You don't have to create much lore/events because its already done. Just copy paste as you move through the story.

Any other period is different. For example say your game is taking place during the Fall of Gondolin. We know what happens in Gondolin and the surrounding area so that's easy. But because everywhere else is unknown, you have to then create events and stories for those areas that fit into the lore. You go from copy and paste to weeks/months of creative. That is definitely a disadvantage.

And there isn't as much freedom as it may seem. The major events have already been laid out; character deaths, battles, natural events etc. So you cant get too crazy with story telling without infringing on the laid out lore. It would essentially be endless battles with second rate enemies that pose no real danger to the world because that part of the story hasn't happened yet.

Of course there are reasons to be optimistic. A Middle Earth MMO that will most likely be made for the PS5/Xbox Scarlet Era, will probably look and run awesome. And I would love to see some of the other events in Tolkien's works. But there are reasons to be skeptical as well. I don't think MMO's and F2P work well together at all and there are questions about the companies ability to make a MMO. We will have to wait and see.

In my opinion a Lotr MMO has the chance to be the best MMO ever made. That is what I want. Not a shell of a former game slowly grinding along, or a good-not-great attempt at a modern F2P MMO. Lotro was a decent attempt that slowly went south mainly due to a lack of plan. That's why I want a Lotro 2.0 over anything else. If you take all the great things about Lotro; Lore, Landscape, RP elements etc, fix up some of the class and balance issues and spend more time on things like raiding and pvmp, then a Lotro 2.0 would offer a better experience.

Its all in theory and what if of course. And Im going to play the new MMO day 1. I just want the best Lotr game possible.

[Webgiant]

I agree but my point was why not have a look at it, I love The Lord of the Rings and am happy to soon have a second MMO in the same universe to look at.

I'm listening to Amazon use some pretty weasel words in their description of what to expect.

Its going to be brand new, they say. No one will have seen any of this before, they say.

We're getting the licensing rights from Middle Earth Enterprises, they also say, which lets the air out of the first two statements. Middle Earth Enterprises has no rights to anything other than Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. They're the same outfit from which SSG has a license. SSG just released High Elf with a Second Age starting area, and Minas Morgul which is also a Second Age region (well documented in the Appendicies of LOTR trilogy).

At best Amazon could get full Hobbit rights. Oooooo.

Second, this is being released not just on PC, but also on Consoles. Expect gameplay to be combat combat combat. Very little time spent looking at scenery. Story? If they get around to it, and no running over territory already plumbed by SSG, since "brand new", remember. And if they're developing it on console and porting to PC, oh dear god no.

Finally, its entirely Free To Play. No subscriptions. While LOTRO works with a f2p model pretty well, its doing well because of subscriptions too (hi Anor and Ithil). FFIV is doing well on subscription only. I played an entirely free to play MMO once. LOTRO isn't pay to win by any stretch of the imagination, but the free to play model (outside of LOTRO, where you can earn all the quest packs in game) is actually the microtransaction pay to win model.

So they can only do things SSG has already done, the model will be nearly all combat, it will probably suck just as much as every other game which was designed for consoles and ported to PC, and if you think SSG is a drain on your wallet, SSG will seem literally free to play by comparison to the Amazon Lord of the Weasels Game.

[Arandour]

It looks interesting but to be honest i have spend all those years to much time,money and effort for this game to drop it if something better arrive.The only reason i will stop play this game is if the developers push me away and i say this since the beginning.
Then i am done with MMOs and i will return to the old fashion single player games with the option when i want to play multiplayer.For now LOTRO is the only game in my PC i hope i will keep it that way for long time more and like i said it depends from our developers if i do.

[sapienze]

Amazon's New World is due to launch in a few months. This might give some insight into what to expect from a Tolkien inspired game. Insight to systems, quality of graphics, combat, and other related features.

At no point, have I read the game's primary focus would be on a console. If anything from what I read it is first a PC game. New World is advertised the same way and in that game it promotes 50vs50 interaction. I haven't touched a game console of any kind in a long time, but I'd think a PC could handle that kind of experience better than a console. Bezos himself commented when ask what kind of MMO he wants. He said he wants a game with high computational systems. He might have phrased it as, Stupidly high computations. What does that mean? Well, I don't think that means building an average MMO accepting the current usual standards. Nor do I think that means a player can use their ten year old potato.

I'm willing to see what it becomes. Who knows, it could turn out be the best game in Tolkien's universe. What I won't do is say it will suck, because of any sunken cost in LotRO. I can't see a guy who has billions and a love for Tolkien's world, wasting his time creating a pos. I'd place a bet with great odds in favor of it not being laggy.

[WhiteWolf21x]

Amazon's New World is due to launch in a few months. This might give some insight into what to expect from a Tolkien inspired game. Insight to systems, quality of graphics, combat, and other related features.

Have you seen anything on New World? Its like a group sandbox survival game with crafting elements. The only things that would likely gain insight to the Lotr MMO would be combat(maybe), graphics(maybe) and sub systems like crafting(maybe). I could be wrong of course and the two games could share a lot, but then you're looking at more of a multiplayer/co-op action game and less of a MMO (imo)

And from what I hear, they completely reworked the entire game in the past year after closed alphahttps://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm..._of_new_world/)

Reports like this scream mismanagement to me, which is what put Lotro in its current position.

This right here is my biggest concern, as Amazon has a terrible track record for gaming. Their Studio has been opened for almost 8 years and all they have to show for it is a handful of mobile games and a game based on one of their tv shows (as well as New World.) Not much for a billion dollar company.

My other concern is f2p. We all know how this goes. Starts off innocent enough, then a slow roll towards p2convienence/p2w. Along side of more cosmetics in the shop instead of being earnable in game. At least the business model should be better then Lotro's.

I do agree however that game performance should be drastically better.

As for console/pc. I expect cross platform to be a thing. Or at least a shared account so you can swap between the two at will. (ESO doesn't have this and it sucks.) I don't expect pc or console to receive preferential treatment.

I feel the Lotr MMO will be similar to Eso. Action combat, good graphics, story driven content with the occasional dungeon/raid. Usual sub systems; crafting, mounts, kins/guilds etc. And one or two surprise features to try and spice it up. Nothing too crazy.

[fealegwe2]

the game that has the least LAG and less infuriating GRIND will have the most players.

my theory is that LOTRO's lag is caused by old hardware having to deal with new code.it seems the more calculations per second the system has to compute ie more people in same zone with more intense rendering the slower the server can pass the info on,i am not a programmer so that is my layman's idea how it could be the cause

[WhiteWolf21x]

the game that has the least LAG and less infuriating GRIND will have the most players.

There is way more to an MMO than lag and grind. There are MMO's that have worse grinds than Lotro but still have more players, and nearly every MMO I know of has its fair share of performance issues.

And why does an MMO have to have the most players? That might be the biggest issue among the genre today. Just because WoW peaked at 15 million players doesn't mean all MMO's need to try and reach that mark. 10,000 players to 100,000 players is plenty for a MMO. Heck even Lotro's servers of 500-1000 are fine for a game of this size. Trying to cater to everyone just to reach the multi million player mark is a easy way to drive a mmo into the ground.

[sapienze]

Have you seen anything on New World? Its like a group sandbox survival game with crafting elements. The only things that would likely gain insight to the Lotr MMO would be combat(maybe), graphics(maybe) and sub systems like crafting(maybe). I could be wrong of course and the two games could share a lot, but then you're looking at more of a multiplayer/co-op action game and less of a MMO (imo)

And from what I hear, they completely reworked the entire game in the past year after closed alphahttps://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm..._of_new_world/)

Reports like this scream mismanagement to me, which is what put Lotro in its current position.

This right here is my biggest concern, as Amazon has a terrible track record for gaming. Their Studio has been opened for almost 8 years and all they have to show for it is a handful of mobile games and a game based on one of their tv shows (as well as New World.) Not much for a billion dollar company.

My other concern is f2p. We all know how this goes. Starts off innocent enough, then a slow roll towards p2convienence/p2w. Along side of more cosmetics in the shop instead of being earnable in game. At least the business model should be better then Lotro's.

I do agree however that game performance should be drastically better.

As for console/pc. I expect cross platform to be a thing. Or at least a shared account so you can swap between the two at will. (ESO doesn't have this and it sucks.) I don't expect pc or console to receive preferential treatment.

I feel the Lotr MMO will be similar to Eso. Action combat, good graphics, story driven content with the occasional dungeon/raid. Usual sub systems; crafting, mounts, kins/guilds etc. And one or two surprise features to try and spice it up. Nothing too crazy.

I've only seen what the game's developers has shown or written about.

It is a sandbox game. I thought that was understood by anyone who read about it. That doesn't mean the LotR game will be.

Neither game seems to be a tab target combat game. I guess that's prompted by the cross platform inclusion.

Yes the game was shutdown and reworked. I recall a different MMO that went through the same situation and resurfaced as one of the biggest games of the last several years. Anyone heard of Final Fantasy?


One recent and huge change to New World is, it is not a Free to Play game. You can right now purchase a pre order. I see no reason to assume the LotR game will be a F2P game, even when is was previous stated it would be. Realities change.


One main reason I stayed with LotRO for a long time was the social aspect. I came for the story. Stayed for the players. Regardless if Amazon's New World or Lord of the Rings is story driven or just a full on sandbox, the games community will decide the success. A huge part in MMO success is providing communication. Reacting to problems and implementing a good customer service experience. If Amazon provides these things, the players will willingly deal with temporary minor flaws.

After all look at what and why we are engaging each other here. Today, right now. We all know the shortfalls endured here and yet persist.

[Halphast]

I don't understand how the Amazon game can both claim to be "based on Tolkien’s literary trilogy," and also claim to be set in "a time long before the events of The Lord of the Rings, exploring lands, people and creatures never seen before by fans of the Tolkien universe.” This smacks of "We got the rights to names and places, and then just made up our own fantasy game."

Combine that gloomy possibility with the fact it's console/PC and therefore catering to button-mashing combat... probably including pvp... I'm not holding my breath for anything profound.

Most of the people who play lotro are here for the world, the story, and the community. A hack-and-slash FTP console/PC MMO sporting a "tolkien-inspired" sticker on the box isn't likely to be much competition for the lotro player base.

[sapienze]

I don't understand how the Amazon game can both claim to be "based on Tolkien’s literary trilogy," and also claim to be set in "a time long before the events of The Lord of the Rings, exploring lands, people and creatures never seen before by fans of the Tolkien universe.” This smacks of "We got the rights to names and places, and then just made up our own fantasy game."

You essentially just described SSG's foray into the Second Age layer of Mordor released with Minas Morgul. Even though Sam put the knives to Shelob, somehow SSG managed to find super sleuthing skills to track down Shelob. Aragorn and Eomer are going on a long years wars in the East based on a couple obscure sentences into a new zone no one has ever been to in any game.

Combine that gloomy possibility with the fact it's console/PC and therefore catering to button-mashing combat... probably including pvp... I'm not holding my breath for anything profound.

You are ignoring that any new game paving a way to success will exist across all gaming platforms. In case you didn't know. Its a thing. I seem to recall Turbine wanted to bring LotRO to console.

REEE! PVP hurts my pixels! I don't recall pvp being mentioned, but if it does... What of it?

Most of the people who play lotro are here for the world, the story, and the community. A hack-and-slash FTP console/PC MMO sporting a "tolkien-inspired" sticker on the box isn't likely to be much competition for the lotro player base.

Everyone who plays any game is there for one or more and likely all three. Since the game isn't launched, you can't know anything more than anyone else. Your cynicism is showing proudly in the face of possible competition. SSG is not telling the Lord of the Rings story anymore. They don't want to and said as much. Instead choosing obscure passages to elaborate at extreme length before resuming the actual written story in it totality from beginning to its ending. Where as the Amazon game has no preset boundary within the Tolkien universe like the LotR trilogy. So, there is a real distinction between the two.

Your lack of understanding that one box is far larger than the box next to it, whether willful or not has no bearing on the outcome. Choices are what matters. If you choose not to have choices, then you have that prerogative.

[DavidmeetHal]

I honestly dont' think it's going to be much competition. From what I've seen, the two games will be alike in franchise name only and nothing else.