Warden Please +3 Dot Pulses Quick Fix

[Jakreal]

After seeing Cordovan's response I just felt like I should voice my concern, wardens arent represented by a huge population and for a good reason. We aren't really useful, and other classes are just better in every way.

Please please please SSG add +3 dot pulses to our regular red line trait specialization. We have to use a 4-piece lvl 105 throne gear set just to keep up with every other dps class in the game.

Tank line is in shambles, there's plenty other posts for that and I gave up and rolled a Guard for that reason.

By adding + 3 dot pulses. It will fix wardens dps issues as the level cap increases, otherwise we will still be wearing 105 gear and never be invited to any group play.

[Fingerz]

Would prefer to see new 130 armour for all classes with warden receiving the dot pulses through this.

If we are not going to see a return to more interesting armour bonus then +1 for adding pulses to warden trait providing they would not stack with the Throne armour set version

[Jakreal]

Would prefer to see new 130 armour for all classes with warden receiving the dot pulses through this.

If we are not going to see a return to more interesting armour bonus then +1 for adding pulses to warden trait providing they would not stack with the Throne armour set version

If they keep the set bonus of 3+ Dot as static forever for each expansion yes. Otherwise this is the same problem we have now, a dot pulse locked on an armor set that is behind the level cap.

[Fingerz]

Yes, it is a revolving issue if the only viable way to make warden competitive is having more dot pulses?

Perhaps in the long-term a more in-depth rework would make more sense so the warden isn't relevant on additional pulses.

[Flempz]

Basically they have two options:

1. Add a set of armour that includes +DoT Pulses as Bonus
pros: quick fix, may not solve all problems
cons: in this case, we wouldnt have a bind to account set of armour to share between other toons like we have with the currently raid gear

2. Make changes to our trait lines
pros: may be able to fix more things than just our damage
cons: probably too much work considering the lack of efforts from SSG in balancing the Warden class


If they don`t find a solution, we will have the first expansion that removes a class from the game in all mmo history

[Mukor]

After seeing Cordovan's response I just felt like I should voice my concern, wardens arent represented by a huge population and for a good reason. We aren't really useful, and other classes are just better in every way.

Please please please SSG add +3 dot pulses to our regular red line trait specialization. We have to use a 4-piece lvl 105 throne gear set just to keep up with every other dps class in the game.

Tank line is in shambles, there's plenty other posts for that and I gave up and rolled a Guard for that reason.

By adding + 3 dot pulses. It will fix wardens dps issues as the level cap increases, otherwise we will still be wearing 105 gear and never be invited to any group play.

You use 4 pieces of 105 gear, which is a big loose of sats and with it you keep up.
Having this 3 pulses and all stats would be a to big boost.

[AaronIU]

You use 4 pieces of 105 gear, which is a big loose of sats and with it you keep up.
Having this 3 pulses and all stats would be a to big boost.

Not true, you’re working from a false premise. We remain competitive by using old gear and suffer massive stat loss at the cost of something. So we maximize mastery with the use of scrolls, max crit to 220-230k, then balance vitality and some mitigation’s. We hide the stat loss in between those two because it’s the only way to remain competitive for groups. So while other classes have maxed crit, mastery, mitigations and a large morale pool when maxed on gear, we suffer lower morale pools (I think mine is ~160k) and barely or under adequate mitigations. This is still true with full gold jewels/cloak anvil jewelry, 2pc anvil leg/chest.

[Mukor]

Not true, you’re working from a false premise. We remain competitive by using old gear and suffer massive stat loss at the cost of something. So we maximize mastery with the use of scrolls, max crit to 220-230k, then balance vitality and some mitigation’s. We hide the stat loss in between those two because it’s the only way to remain competitive for groups. So while other classes have maxed crit, mastery, mitigations and a large morale pool when maxed on gear, we suffer lower morale pools (I think mine is ~160k) and barely or under adequate mitigations. This is still true with full gold jewels/cloak anvil jewelry, 2pc anvil leg/chest.

Other melee dpser has the same problem. Around your morale and under adequate mits.
Rnage dpser have less morale for that good mits.
So you just will get higher stats, same as the others and your +3 pulses which makes you already competitive to the others.
With all stats and this pulses you will jump at the top of dps with no small gap.
This bonus is to powerful just to get it passive.

[Jakreal]

Yes, it is a revolving issue if the only viable way to make warden competitive is having more dot pulses?

Perhaps in the long-term a more in-depth rework would make more sense so the warden isn't relevant on additional pulses.

This is more about simplicity because as Cordovan has stated there is no plan for us. Which is a huge mistake on their part, our class is useless in terms of dps or tank for priority invite or even inviting at all we don’t bring anything to the table. +3 dot pulses at the moment is, however, the only thing that keeps us even close to the damage that is expected for group play at the current level. It will just get worse as 130 approaches.

It’s not the only thing we need worked on I agree. But for keeping it simple and keeping us even considered a class we should definitely be voicing for 3+ dot pulses as it works to make up for our lack of damage even at our current level.

[Osglinthor]

Other melee dpser has the same problem. Around your morale and under adequate mits.
Rnage dpser have less morale for that good mits.
So you just will get higher stats, same as the others and your +3 pulses which makes you already competitive to the others.
With all stats and this pulses you will jump at the top of dps with no small gap.
This bonus is to powerful just to get it passive.

Stop talking nonsense please.I can get higher morale and mits on ranged classes plus having far better self heals and have far easier time doing dps than I can on warden.Sure I am min maxed now with raid gear and gladenmere essences but it was fun competing with against maxed DPSers without it,havign your NS proc on every belly for example because you morale and mits were ####.
Adding +3 dots to trait line would do nothing except even the class with other dpsers.We wouldnt jump at top of DPS if we asume everyone gets scaled equaly from live.So fking sick of people deing delusional thinking warden is this massive survivabilty ultra dps class.Go to beta get BiS gear on ward and then get it on any other class and compare then come and talk here.
My champ can get far better survivability than my warden can on live,with ~same dps(problem is champ needs more debuffers) only reason warden has any chance here is because of shiled,if it didnt have shiled it would be almost complete garbage.

[Mukor]

Stop talking nonsense please.I can get higher morale and mits on ranged classes plus having far better self heals and have far easier time doing dps than I can on warden.Sure I am min maxed now with raid gear and gladenmere essences but it was fun competing with against maxed DPSers without it,havign your NS proc on every belly for example because you morale and mits were ####.
Adding +3 dots to trait line would do nothing except even the class with other dpsers.We wouldnt jump at top of DPS if we asume everyone gets scaled equaly from live.So fking sick of people deing delusional thinking warden is this massive survivabilty ultra dps class.Go to beta get BiS gear on ward and then get it on any other class and compare then come and talk here.
My champ can get far better survivability than my warden can on live,with ~same dps(problem is champ needs more debuffers) only reason warden has any chance here is because of shiled,if it didnt have shiled it would be almost complete garbage.

You've around the same stats as a champ has, you loose 100-150 k crit this is all.
Now adding this you will making far more dmg as all dpser and especially them.
Atm you're defensive wise not weaker as the other dpser even if you could have more.
What wardens loose atm is crit for this bonus this is all. Everything else is balanced with the higher morale factor wardens have.
Even will it changes with 130 +3 pulses is to much for passive maybe 1/1.5 pulses.

[Jakreal]

You've around the same stats as a champ has, you loose 100-150 k crit this is all.
Now adding this you will making far more dmg as all dpser and especially them.
Atm you're defensive wise not weaker as the other dpser even if you could have more.
What wardens loose atm is crit for this bonus this is all. Everything else is balanced with the higher morale factor wardens have.
Even will it changes with 130 +3 pulses is to much for passive maybe 1/1.5 pulses.

Yea we lose more then crit. We lose whatever is on the 4 pieces of gear that we could have on level. but are stuck using 4, 105 pieces... That includes morale/armor/phys mastery/finesse ect. That's not including on level essences we could have such as crit. I am unsure if you even play the warden class at this point. If you did we wouldn't have to explain this to you.

No other class has to do this and they STILL out-damage us by a lot. If you think +3 dot pulses makes us on par with other classes you are mistaken. We are competitive with that armor set, but anyone who is geared and decent at rk/hunt/burg(broken)/champ can still out damage us regardless how geared or skillful the warden is.

warden has no viable spot in any content in comparison with other classes, you have to rely on empathy or pity from other players to allow a spot for a warden otherwise they just wont invite you.

[Osglinthor]

You've around the same stats as a champ has, you loose 100-150 k crit this is all.
Now adding this you will making far more dmg as all dpser and especially them.
Atm you're defensive wise not weaker as the other dpser even if you could have more.
What wardens loose atm is crit for this bonus this is all. Everything else is balanced with the higher morale factor wardens have.
Even will it changes with 130 +3 pulses is to much for passive maybe 1/1.5 pulses.

Stop talking nonsense please,I have RK,Champ and Warden fully geared and warden cant compete when it comes to stats to these 2 classes,unless I far overcap crit on RK/Champ just for fun.
With new cap this difference will be far too great.Not to mention warden class having highest finesse requirment of all classes as a bonus.If you were to add +3 dot pulses to trait to live right now read this now carefully warden dps would increase by 0.All you would gain is same morale/mits as other classes.

[Olebenny]

+1+1+1+1+1

There is no need to rebalance red warden even with this change as end game wardens already maxing their dps by capping mastery and crit at the loss of defences due to the old armour. My RK is tankier than wardens in my kin by quite a hefty gap. Like 30-40k morale more with relatively same mastery and crit while also capping my mits. A shieldbearing, medium armour melee class should be far tankier than a rk/hunter/lm, but just arent because those dot pulses are too crucial and needed to be competitive dps'ers

And 100% add them to the trait tree, a new set of armour would be okay but i dont want an abyss/throne situation where most wardens raided on other toons to get gear for their warden so it can fi ally enter the raid. And if they remain on armour i feel like we will just encounter the issues here at lvl 120 in the future where it is not given to them on raid armour and they spend an entire level cap scraping by on stats.

[Kander]

You use 4 pieces of 105 gear, which is a big loose of sats and with it you keep up.
Having this 3 pulses and all stats would be a to big boost.

I will explain as clearly and easy as I can since this is a common answer from non-warden players when we ask for passive +3 pulses:

Wardens atm compete with other classes only by using:
105 gear, capped mastery and capped crit, a BiS offhand as main weapon because our legacies are really useless, 105 gear is not only +3 pulses but also +25% bleed damage. And ONLY with all that we can keep up with best hunters if we play perfectly.

What we lose is:
We still cap mastery so what we sacrifice is running with like 5-10% tact mit, with 120k morale (150-160k now with 2x t3 raid jewells and all good essences), and with less than 40% phys mit (even though we wear a shield). So we're basically sacrificing all deffences and going full glass cannon to just be able to put up same numbers as other dps classes. To put into perspective my hunter got capped mastery, around 400k crit and 150k morale unbuffed. If I use survival gear I can get 220k morale with 250k crit, while having capped phys mit and around 40% tact mit with scrolls. And btw my warden got 2x set bonus of t3 jewells and my hunter only 1 of those, so difference might even be greater.

No, wardens that already cap crit and mastery won't get any dps increase by having +3 pulses as passive, we will just stack some survivability and maybe get our mitigations, morale up to something that allow us to survive.
ATM in T3 anvil I just die if a random drakeling add gets 2 hits on me.

[Mukor]

Stop talking nonsense please,I have RK,Champ and Warden fully geared and warden cant compete when it comes to stats to these 2 classes,unless I far overcap crit on RK/Champ just for fun.
With new cap this difference will be far too great.Not to mention warden class having highest finesse requirment of all classes as a bonus.If you were to add +3 dot pulses to trait to live right now read this now carefully warden dps would increase by 0.All you would gain is same morale/mits as other classes.

No it won't. You wouldn't spend the additional stats in the defense, you would overcao crit for devaste chance and magnitude as all other do.
And this would be a big increase of dps, with the higher defense for free.
This would make warden to powerful.
+3 pulses for free is as hunters would get hs reset for free.

[Osglinthor]

No it won't. You wouldn't spend the additional stats in the defense, you would overcao crit for devaste chance and magnitude as all other do.
And this would be a big increase of dps, with the higher defense for free.
This would make warden to powerful.
+3 pulses for free is as hunters would get hs reset for free.

Dev chance for warden,and crit magnitude,think I have seen everything here.Ill not bother explaining just how wrong this statement is and if devs take it seriously than there is no point in anything I say.

[Imbrahil]

I will explain as clearly and easy as I can since this is a common answer from non-warden players when we ask for passive +3 pulses:

Wardens atm compete with other classes only by using:
105 gear, capped mastery and capped crit, a BiS offhand as main weapon because our legacies are really useless, 105 gear is not only +3 pulses but also +25% bleed damage. And ONLY with all that we can keep up with best hunters if we play perfectly.

What we lose is:
We still cap mastery so what we sacrifice is running with like 5-10% tact mit, with 120k morale (150-160k now with 2x t3 raid jewells and all good essences), and with less than 40% phys mit (even though we wear a shield). So we're basically sacrificing all deffences and going full glass cannon to just be able to put up same numbers as other dps classes. To put into perspective my hunter got capped mastery, around 400k crit and 150k morale unbuffed. If I use survival gear I can get 220k morale with 250k crit, while having capped phys mit and around 40% tact mit with scrolls. And btw my warden got 2x set bonus of t3 jewells and my hunter only 1 of those, so difference might even be greater.

No, wardens that already cap crit and mastery won't get any dps increase by having +3 pulses as passive, we will just stack some survivability and maybe get our mitigations, morale up to something that allow us to survive.
ATM in T3 anvil I just die if a random drakeling add gets 2 hits on me.

That's exactly the way I see it.

In addition to that, I think the aspect of fun can also be mentioned. It's just more fun to be able to keep almost all DoTs running!

The danger of Warden becoming too powerful doesn't exist in my opinion. So, yes, please give us +3 DoT pulses via our red traittree, since this tree already offers to little good choices.

[Aelbryht]

Considering this is one of the more well known issues among the players, how do we square that up against the lack of action or even any plans for action on the part of the devs? I've spent a fair bit of time looking through various feedback threads and I can't find any real sense of what their view of the state of the Warden class is. Was the last rework considered to be successful for example? Are the blue/red/yellow trait-lines considered fit for purpose at the level 120 cap and moving forwards into MM and level 130?

[AaronIU]

No it won't. You wouldn't spend the additional stats in the defense, you would overcao crit for devaste chance and magnitude as all other do.
And this would be a big increase of dps, with the higher defense for free.
This would make warden to powerful.
+3 pulses for free is as hunters would get hs reset for free.

Honestly this statement shows your complete lack of knowledge of the warden class. Only about 10% of our damage can dev, it’s impossible to dev a DOT... soo why would we stack dev chance once crit is capped?

[Mukor]

Honestly this statement shows your complete lack of knowledge of the warden class. Only about 10% of our damage can dev, it’s impossible to dev a DOT... soo why would we stack dev chance once crit is capped?

If you don't need it about what do you complain. You've capped mastery and crit chance, defense is in the area of the other dpser.
So you don't need more.
Even if you "only" get higher defense, is this a power up out of balance.
That you're competitive with 4 pieces of 105 armour shoes how imba this +3 pulses are.

[Osglinthor]

If you don't need it about what do you complain. You've capped mastery and crit chance, defense is in the area of the other dpser.
So you don't need more.
Even if you "only" get higher defense, is this a power up out of balance.
That you're competitive with 4 pieces of 105 armour shoes how imba this +3 pulses are.

Why are you trolling this thread without any clue about warden class?

[AaronIU]

If you don't need it about what do you complain. You've capped mastery and crit chance, defense is in the area of the other dpser.
So you don't need more.
Even if you "only" get higher defense, is this a power up out of balance.
That you're competitive with 4 pieces of 105 armour shoes how imba this +3 pulses are.

If we don’t run +3 pulse with +25% bleed from the 4pc we run about a 6-8 gambit rotation and have about 70-80k dps ST. If we skip the 4pc we can max mastery, crit chance, tact mits, and still have room for stacking vitality. This is the default of EVERY SINGLE DPS CLASS who can still do 2-3x the dps of a warden (without 4pc).
If we run the 4pc, we need BiS on EVERYTHING ELSE, we need BiS gold essences for the 16 essences on throne set, we need gold/gladenmere essences on the rest we can max mastery (with a scroll), we can max crit chance, but that leaves about 2-3 essences for either tact mits (which bring you to ~30%) or vitality to bring you to 150-160k morale.
So recap any other dps can max everything, AND stack vitality, and do 2-3x the dps of a warden.
A warden runs about 20% mits, max mastery, crit chance, and can stack only 2-3 vitality essences (at the cost of mits) and then their dps is comparable to an average dps class..

[Archiemundo]

If we don’t run +3 pulse with +25% bleed from the 4pc we run about a 6-8 gambit rotation and have about 70-80k dps ST. If we skip the 4pc we can max mastery, crit chance, tact mits, and still have room for stacking vitality. This is the default of EVERY SINGLE DPS CLASS who can still do 2-3x the dps of a warden (without 4pc).
If we run the 4pc, we need BiS on EVERYTHING ELSE, we need BiS gold essences for the 16 essences on throne set, we need gold/gladenmere essences on the rest we can max mastery (with a scroll), we can max crit chance, but that leaves about 2-3 essences for either tact mits (which bring you to ~30%) or vitality to bring you to 150-160k morale.
So recap any other dps can max everything, AND stack vitality, and do 2-3x the dps of a warden.
A warden runs about 20% mits, max mastery, crit chance, and can stack only 2-3 vitality essences (at the cost of mits) and then their dps is comparable to an average dps class..

It fall on deaf ears sadly. Most people don't realise the hoops Warden's have to jump through just to remain competitive.

[Mukor]

If we don’t run +3 pulse with +25% bleed from the 4pc we run about a 6-8 gambit rotation and have about 70-80k dps ST. If we skip the 4pc we can max mastery, crit chance, tact mits, and still have room for stacking vitality. This is the default of EVERY SINGLE DPS CLASS who can still do 2-3x the dps of a warden (without 4pc).
If we run the 4pc, we need BiS on EVERYTHING ELSE, we need BiS gold essences for the 16 essences on throne set, we need gold/gladenmere essences on the rest we can max mastery (with a scroll), we can max crit chance, but that leaves about 2-3 essences for either tact mits (which bring you to ~30%) or vitality to bring you to 150-160k morale.
So recap any other dps can max everything, AND stack vitality, and do 2-3x the dps of a warden.
A warden runs about 20% mits, max mastery, crit chance, and can stack only 2-3 vitality essences (at the cost of mits) and then their dps is comparable to an average dps class..

Other dpser too.
Masterycapped with scrolls and red cappy, more you don't need.
Mits from the armour, vita, will evtl as a stat on the jewl.
Morale is no need for more as 130-140k unbuffed.
Around 80k finesse.
Rest goes to crit, which is as you said unnecessary for wardens but not for the others.