Premade Imbued Legendary Items

[JimhadaUK]

Honestly dont care if they are FA or not. Just think that opening up FA for sale is a path we dont want to go down.

[Hallandil]

Yes, passives only, which are completely irrelevant.

They are not irrelevant, as they increase with value alongside the DPS main-stat.

Sure it’s not as potent at 130 with the stat explosion, but for the most part the extra tact mit or morale is good for a levelling character.

——————


The main issue with Imbuement is accessibility. If they’re meant to grow with our character then players need access to potency increasing items ALL THE WAY THROUGH BETWEEN 100-130. And the developers need to stop placing these rewards at the end of the content branches. By placing the majority of all scroll acquisitions via endgame content (embers, instances, raids) it is a literal catch 22.

How can a player build their legendaries when they need legendaries to do the content- and what occurs as a result you need kin members to carry you through the instances, rely on main characters that remain on top of the grind or pay massive outdated prices for empowerment scrolls that have not been adjusted since 2010.

There’s a simple fix staring everyone right in the face that SSG seems to be almost deliberately ignoring due to the pattern of abandoning previous level caps when the update is shipped. A similar move was done during 2015 to fix imbuement when the sheer number of scrolls required demanded an adjustment in currency/scroll pricing.
Except this time it’s a matter of scarcity of supply, which can be fixed simply by doing the following.

Taking into account the a ILI takes 504 scrolls to unlock all 36 tiers:

• Regular Minas Tirith reputation tokens (1 for 3) to make the After-Battle dailies viable. 1513 MT tokens per LI
• Herbalist Vendors in North Ithilien (+1 for 10 Green or 10 Red or 10 Blue / +5 for 5 Amber/Sapphire). 5040 RGP per LI / 101 A/S per LI
• Gorgoroth Conquest Vendors (+1 for 5 SS, +5 for 20 SS, +10 for 40 SS) 2520/2016 Silver Signets per LI
• Allegiance Vendors from Mordor (+1 for 3 Tokens of Service) 1512 per LI.
• Lakes and Rivers Tokens (+1 for 2 tokens / +5 for 8 tokens) 1008/807 per LI
• Skarhald Dwarf-Lord tokens (Let me get back to you on prices).
• Vales Landscape tokens (+1 for 3 tokens / +5 for 12) 1512/1210 per LI
• Vales dailies tokens - of each faction (+1 for 3 / +5 for 12 / +10 for 20) 1512/1210/1008 tokens per LI

The reasoning behind the above prices is to make the above content a viable alternative to running ng Minas Tirith Ad Nauseum.

In addition to this, the method of obtaining star-lit crystals outside of random drops and festivals is abysmal, with the only main place still being from Epic Battles.

Some places where crystals could be added:



Note, as the number of crystals required per item is substantially less, the price requirements are greater than empowerment scrolls.

To SSG: Worried about keeping mithril coin appealing to whales? Each of the above options (in a vaccuum) takes 3 months per LI.

This system does not need a redesign, it just needs maintenance. Something that Standing Stone Games and Turbine have had as a very prominent flaw. There's nothing to stop the very next system from becoming just as poorly executed and full of the same levels of disrepair, falling prone to the identical bad habbits. The Ship and Skip method of game design is clearly not working for this game.

[Hephburz-2]

They are not irrelevant, as they increase with value alongside the DPS main-stat.

Sure it’s not as potent at 130 with the stat explosion, but for the most part the extra tact mit or morale is good for a levelling character.

Can't tell if you're joking or not? But passives ARE irrelevant. They were important back at level 100/105 when there wasn't such a massive disparity between our own stats, and LI stats. And with our stats going to increase yet again at level 130, I really don't think the minute contribution differences between a SA/FA will make any difference to you at all, or would even be noticeable.

[LabadalofDorlomin]

But thats the thing isnt it... most classes need more than 2 LIs... those that want 6 FA lis are gonna grind them anyway. those that will be happy with 2A will be happy with 2A. (despite the supposed spoonful of maggots from the vanity crowd)

I assume you meant to say "those that will be happy with 2LI will be happy with 2A" but you were to busy trying to work out a poor sarcastic reply to tail off your penneth worth with.
I think you need to take a candid look at what this is all about.
For me I see it as:
Attracting current paying players to dust off their alts and enjoy the full experience again if alt'ing is their thing...
Attracting new players who aren't interested in the story that much but want to put some effort in and then play with their friends
Attracting old players to return knowing they can dust off their old character at whatever level it was and play or have the option to jump to meet their old friends... or maybe then when they have levelled to 120... they can use this and get a huge bypass of the grind.

If you read my posts instead of cherry picking for your vanity you would see that what I said was exactly what this system was designed for in the first place. Imbued was supposed to give you that special weapon that was supposed to stay with you forever. Therefore why would you want what has always been seen in game a second rate in a second age weapon?

This isn't vanity it is two fold..... not being identified as a valar player and judged by group leaders wrongly because of it and

also this is supposed to be my chesrished and prized weapon.....

If you have never heard of any of these weapons then I urge you to look them as they have amazing stories behind them all... AS SHOULD OUR WEAPONS ALSO.

Herugrim, Aeglos, Dagmar, Orcrist, Anduril (should know this one at least), dramborleg, guthwine etc etc and one that if you work out my forum name would be of interest to me would be Gurthang....

Have fun...

Honestly dont care if they are FA or not. Just think that opening up FA for sale is a path we dont want to go down.

If you aren't bothered then why the sarcasm above to someone who does?

This system does not need a redesign, it just needs maintenance. Something that Standing Stone Games and Turbine have had as a very prominent flaw. There's nothing to stop the very next system from becoming just as poorly executed and full of the same levels of disrepair, falling prone to the identical bad habbits. The Ship and Skip method of game design is clearly not working for this game.

We all comment on how we think the game will affect us and what would be best for us but they have to look on it as a business and what would be required for all stakeholders not just the players..

[JimhadaUK]

I assume you meant to say "those that will be happy with 2LI will be happy with 2A" but you were to busy trying to work out a poor sarcastic reply to tail off your penneth worth with.
.

No I wrote what I meant thanks.
Those that will be grateful for not having to grind out a weapon will be happy with the SA.

As for special weapons,,, what makes them special is that they were rare.

[Hallandil]

We all comment on how we think the game will affect us and what would be best for us but they have to look on it as a business and what would be required for all stakeholders not just the players..

Imbuement is a big thing driving players away from the game above level 100. Low player numbers negatively affects the game.

With the lootbox system, premium cosmetics and bundles offered every few months- There should be enough to satisfy any stakeholders demanding steady flows of income.

Current ongoing crafting, rohirrim housing and proposed kinship changes should be enough to satisfy publishers demanding "Innovation" to the game.

Edit: In regards to what I mean by "chasing system redesigns" ... going to prop up the Marks/Medallion/Seals revamp from 2011, Golden Scaled Loot from 2012, Trait Trees from 2013 as examples.

Universal instance currency was abandoned 2 level cap raises later, and now there's a replacement with Motes/Embers. Golden Scaled Loot was stripped from the loot tables, with players from 85 still running around with them and the attached class bonuses. The Trait Tree revamp is only seeing some 'legitimate' balancing fixes thanks to the return of veteran systems devs over the previous two years (5-6 years on from the trees' introduction).

[Hallandil]

Can't tell if you're joking or not? But passives ARE irrelevant. They were important back at level 100/105 when there wasn't such a massive disparity between our own stats, and LI stats. And with our stats going to increase yet again at level 130, I really don't think the minute contribution differences between a SA/FA will make any difference to you at all, or would even be noticeable.

Maybe read the second line in that quote before replying?

And yes, there's some significant differences give some 1A class items having % bonuses not present on 2A items *some*

[Hephburz-2]

Maybe read the second line in that quote before replying?

And yes, there's some significant differences give some 1A class items having % bonuses not present on 2A items *some*

The difference is not significant at all.

Of the notable passive stats on 2H's the difference is roughly 500-1k morale, and around 1k-2k tact mitigation, which even now at level 120 are absolutely redundant, and will be even more irrelevant at 130. And EVEN to a levelling character, will make no discernible difference.

The only extra +% buff I can think of that exists on a FA that does not exist on the SA, is on a Gurdians belt, something to do with thread modifier, which again, is useless since the threat rework - force taunts for days.

[Ballie]

The feedback thread was locked because the items we are looking for feedback on are not available. Only reason.

I have taken issue with a sticky thread getting locked which was a huge necro, stickies should be handled differently, OPs maybe getting the say to lock or un-sticky if it's a dev. I would argue that our feedback on any matter could be delayed, we're in the beta testing, and thoughts are clearer on reflection. I myself wanted to add that one bug resolved it's self on a relog so might have helped in tracking down an issue. If the bug that took it down was made known to us we also may have more comments to help resolve it.

[Ballie]

The difference is not significant at all.

Of the notable passive stats on 2H's the difference is roughly 500-1k morale, and around 1k-2k tact mitigation, which even now at level 120 are absolutely redundant, and will be even more irrelevant at 130. And EVEN to a levelling character, will make no discernible difference.

The only extra +% buff I can think of that exists on a FA that does not exist on the SA, is on a Gurdians belt, something to do with thread modifier, which again, is useless since the threat rework - force taunts for days.

Some of are still hoping for a return to the beautiful threat mechanics pre-HD and when the First Age LI passives will become meaningful once again. The joke of the Guardian's Belt still haunts us. What use my 90 odd (earned, traded, festival farmed, looted and MCed) crystals on my 3 ILI belts?

[Ballie]

Don't read much into that, I was pulling a number from the air to indicate they weren't maxed out.

You are asking for feedback on twitch under a false premise. The difference is huge in any currency you can mention whether it's grafting in game for months or the store MC or ridiculous scroll pricing.

These are coming out so close to max it really wouldn't be worth mentioning otherwise.

[Hallandil]

The difference is not significant at all.

Of the notable passive stats on 2H's the difference is roughly 500-1k morale, and around 1k-2k tact mitigation, which even now at level 120 are absolutely redundant, and will be even more irrelevant at 130. And EVEN to a levelling character, will make no discernible difference.

The only extra +% buff I can think of that exists on a FA that does not exist on the SA, is on a Gurdians belt, something to do with thread modifier, which again, is useless since the threat rework - force taunts for days.

Lore-master books also have +% Tactical Damage.

Guardians don't force-taunts for days anymore. Edit: Challenge was changed, stop being ###-hats about Helms Deep in trying to avoid the fact that a Second Age in the Valar box is a cop-out.

BuT iT dOeSnT GiVe BeTtEr StAts. It's still a massively out of touch move given that in order to imbue a first age a player is reset to square 1.

[Fingerz]

The majority of classes (if I'm not mistaken) receive a marginal gain from using a FA class LI over a SA.

Regardless how small and marginal it may be, having a SA LI included with a Valar will result in some people discarding this SA in favour of a FA and having to level it from scratch, defeating the intent of the enhanced Valar due with MM.

If we are to "hit the ground running" after a Valar , having to not back track on trait points, Virtue XP and LI it would be better to have the Valar included LI as FA

[Esgalad]

Pay to win is not the fix to the LI system you have been promising for seven? years. Voting against it being first agers, voting against the items period. Even if they were 1/3rd full, that's pay to win. Almost every aspect of LIs is already pay to win, if you want to keep it pay to win but accessible to more players why not just reduce the prices in the store?

[Fingerz]

You have a interesting point of view from my perspective.

The pre-imbued is tied to the proposed Valar package, it's not being sold as a stand alone item.

How would you like to see the Valar package work if not to also equip the player who uses a Valar with a weapon and class item they can and continue use?

[Chris91]

Pay to win is not the fix to the LI system you have been promising for seven? years. Voting against it being first agers, voting against the items period. Even if they were 1/3rd full, that's pay to win. Almost every aspect of LIs is already pay to win, if you want to keep it pay to win but accessible to more players why not just reduce the prices in the store?

Some people don't understand the concept of "pay to win"

LIs are not pay to win, just like level boosts in general are not pay to win..they are pay for convenience

Pay to win is an ingame advantage for players who pay money that is not otherwise achievable through somewhat realistic means

Yeah LIs are grindy, but given it takes about 3 complete runs of throne t2c to max out your dps/tdr/thr rating and you get anfalas scrolls from almost every new instance now + skirm camp

Yes there are items I'd consider pay to win (like tomes of defence)..LIs, even though a grind, are not pay to win

[Esgalad]

Some people don't understand the concept of "pay to win"

LIs are not pay to win, just like level boosts in general are not pay to win..they are pay for convenience

Pay to win is an ingame advantage for players who pay money that is not otherwise achievable through somewhat realistic means

Yeah LIs are grindy, but given it takes about 3 complete runs of throne t2c to max out your dps/tdr/thr rating and you get anfalas scrolls from almost every new instance now + skirm camp

Yes there are items I'd consider pay to win (like tomes of defence)..LIs, even though a grind, are not pay to win

Take two players just starting in LoTRO who both have ten hours a week they can invest in the game.

One of them has $15 a month he spends on the game, the other is maxing out a credit card at $1000 a month. Which one of them has better gear? Who has better essence? Who gets the raid slot?

You're so used to the death of games that you don't remember what words used to mean.

[Fingerz]

Take two players just starting in LoTRO who both have ten hours a week they can invest in the game.

One of them has $15 a month he spends on the game, the other is maxing out a credit card at $1000 a month. Which one of them has better gear? Who has better essence? Who gets the raid slot?

You're so used to the death of games that you don't remember what words used to mean.

Neither gets a raid spot; they are both still grinding out LI consumables, trait points and virtue XP

[Hallandil]

Some people don't understand the concept of "pay to win"

LIs are not pay to win, just like level boosts in general are not pay to win..they are pay for convenience

Pay to win is an ingame advantage for players who pay money that is not otherwise achievable through somewhat realistic means

Yeah LIs are grindy, but given it takes about 3 complete runs of throne t2c to max out your dps/tdr/thr rating and you get anfalas scrolls from almost every new instance now + skirm camp

Yes there are items I'd consider pay to win (like tomes of defence)..LIs, even though a grind, are not pay to win

"3 runs of Throne t2c" Which is the entire point. From a design perspective that's Cart before the Horse. The whole point of an imbued weapon levelled with IXP to a level 105 status is to be possible to run t2c content.
(previously a Second Age was viable enough to pass muster for tier 2 content given relatively smaller gap between First and Second Agers on the old legendary system, such a setup does not apply to Imbuement where a 'new' weapon is essentially 5 levels below the intended power and capabilities for Gondor/Mordor content).

A new player requires to either sign up to an existing t2c capable guild and be carried through to receive those Ithil coins.

The other methods of acquisition take up to several weeks, which means the "advantage otherwise not achievable" is a measure of time sunk into earning a completed legendary item. It's still Pay-to-Win.
Time spent is a factor in play, especially when it comes to gaming as a consumable service is seen as a freetime hobby (Yes, Esports and Streaming is a thing too, but that hardly applies to LOTRO).

[Ballie]

So beta #2 and the feedback thread is linked but still locked. For the moment.

Only discernible change is switch it off and on again fix for a blank LI...

No mention of any further changes: more suitable legacies for some classes or just open slots for the player to choose? Nothing on just how far advanced to max the ILI is. Will wait and see if it's a 1st ager already.

I was looking at my old belts today; damage belt came out with mostly damage legacies so kept it as such but it has 6% to threat component and 5% to perceived whilst the tank belt has 5% and 4%. Seems to me like I should be making a third ager belt for damage so I don't pull aggro. But I only get invites for dailies, pity invites maybe, only sitting at 140k morale?

I couldn't even guess if these threat modifiers even work these days. I suppose on the bright side if they are bringing mobs to my red/blue/yellow guard he won't have to run after 'em so much. I guess it would need a taunt and you die mechanic somewhere in game to prove the case.

Working or not I'll take my threat percentages over a 2nd ager's.

[Ballie]

As BR was up I logged in to check guard "premade" ILIs

Only had choice of hammers, does anyone have a hammer racial? I'd have though it would take account of us dwarves being Axe wielders.
Second age tank belt gave just 1% perceived threat third ager nothing
While the 2nd ager is close to maxing the 3rd ager is far from maxing the new 67 stat and 83 leg rank:
2nd stat 27/31 Leg 33/37
3rd stat 15/31 Leg 21/37
12 star-lits and 84 scrolls more to find for the 3rd ager against the 2nd.

Old Maxed ILIs required just 2 star-lit crystals and one empowerment per legacy. Or 90 MC total each ILI.

Striking rune seem to have more bang so looks like the last of my partial mitigation runes are going to be replaced. Dual-wielder champs' time is up

Now that sucks, I lost the dubious metalsmith auto bestow shield recipes...

Getting off topic... Virtue screen has an accelerator link to the store and sells me an essentials pack (one time only?) the 5000VXP pills were usable on rank 60 virtues and ranked up to 62.5. Still at level 120 though, I'm perplexed! The Earning took two pills and ranked up to 63 so don't know what the cap is at 120 now. All the stat increases look to be active.

[Thurinuor]

Getting off topic... Virtue screen has an accelerator link to the store and sells me an essentials pack (one time only?) the 5000VXP pills were usable on rank 60 virtues and ranked up to 62.5. Still at level 120 though, I'm perplexed! The Earning took two pills and ranked up to 63 so don't know what the cap is at 120 now. All the stat increases look to be active.

The new maximum is 65 for virtues. That come up in the faq livestream 2 weeks ago. I asked in the chat and they confirmed that.

[Laurelinarien]

The new maximum is 65 for virtues. That come up in the faq livestream 2 weeks ago. I asked in the chat and they confirmed that.

Yes, he's just saying he was able to increase his virtue cap despite his level (120) not going up. Afaik, no, it shouldn't happen if we look at how the virtue cap works on live now.

Originally Posted by Ballie
Getting off topic... Virtue screen has an accelerator link to the store and sells me an essentials pack (one time only?) the 5000VXP pills were usable on rank 60 virtues and ranked up to 62.5. Still at level 120 though, I'm perplexed! The Earning took two pills and ranked up to 63 so don't know what the cap is at 120 now. All the stat increases look to be active.

Now, you're saying it took 10k VPX to gain 3 levels?

[Ethrildar]

If not already suggested before, can I suggest that imbued LIs give us a pick-list with a weapon type? Assuming it's not deliberately shoehorning us into an ineffective weapon-type just so we'll have to buy new LIs anyway...

Cappy options are Halberds and Emblems. Halberds are filth, Greatswords should 100% be an option as should one-handed swords at the very least.

[Ballie]

Yes, he's just saying he was able to increase his virtue cap despite his level (120) not going up. Afaik, no, it shouldn't happen if we look at how the virtue cap works on live now.


Now, you're saying it took 10k VPX to gain 3 levels?

The earning was under max at the time. It's still 2,000 vxp each rank from 60 to 63. A 5,000 pill gave two and a half ranks; hence 62.5.

The wiki gods will say that the previous rank 60 cap was available to 115 level characters(ish). It could be that to save people loosing out on one off virtue deeds completing before you level that they are stretching that same functionality, or a mistake.

It's all in the comprehensive dev diary...