Amazon’s making a new Lord of the Rings MMO

[Bothketbog]

I honestly dont' think it's going to be much competition. From what I've seen, the two games will be alike in franchise name only and nothing else.

Agreed, and I think it's hilarious that people are predicting the end of LotRO based on another game which is "vaporware" at this time. Let's talk about it when the Amazon game is actually released, shall we?

[Halphast]

(blah)

The key difference is that Lotro contains the full story already, so their expansions and additions just make the game larger. Amazon already stated they're not dealing with the events of LOTR so theirs is just a made up fantasy playland with LOTR themes.

I mentioned pvp because it sets the tone for the game. Lotro is anti-pvp and as a result has a player population known for its friendliness and helpfulness. Games that allow and/or encourage pvp have a different feel and attract different sorts of players, so it will be a significant distinction and is worth mentioning.

So you see, the point of my post was that the Amazon game seems to be telling a different story to a different audience, so people shouldn't be afraid of the competition driving Lotro out of business. Your immediately contentious response suggests you were hoping for that possibility.

[gildhur]

I don't understand how the Amazon game can both claim to be "based on Tolkien’s literary trilogy," and also claim to be set in "a time long before the events of The Lord of the Rings, exploring lands, people and creatures never seen before by fans of the Tolkien universe.” This smacks of "We got the rights to names and places, and then just made up our own fantasy game."

The same way Amazon's LotR series will be both based on LotR and not show the events of LotR. The appendices and books have countless references to events that happened hundreds and thousands of years ago. The show is confirmed to be set in the Second Age, presumably featuring the events we know happened during that time, not "made up fantasy" story. The game, though not confirmed to be set in the Second Age, will very likely follow a similar pattern of portraying characters, places, and events in the history of Middle-earth before the War of the Ring, not a "made up fantasy game."

To be clear, we know almost nothing about the Amazon game yet, so this kind of pessimistic speculation is not at all helpful to anyone.

[Halphast]

the events we know happened during that time, not "made up fantasy" story.

There isn't really that much from the 2nd age that they'll be able to touch, without having the rights to the Silmarillion etc. If they're creating something "never before seen" that's "based on the trilogy" and nothing else, it will be mostly a new invention.

To be clear, we know almost nothing about the Amazon game yet, so this kind of pessimistic speculation is not at all helpful to anyone.

Look, I'm not bashing the Amazon game just for the sake of being negative. People seemed afraid that the Amazon game would kill Lotro. My "pessimism" was only meant to reassure them by pointing out that the Amazon game is shaping up to be completely different from Lotro, and likely won't create much competition for players.

[Elmagor]

Look, I'm not bashing the Amazon game just for the sake of being negative. People seemed afraid that the Amazon game would kill Lotro. My "pessimism" was only meant to reassure them by pointing out that the Amazon game is shaping up to be completely different from Lotro, and likely won't create much competition for players.

They don't have anything new from 7 months now. The only thing what Amazon game would kill right now it himself. Even Lotro have more info during that point of developement

[AlacrityFitzhugh]

LOTRO will be shut down just before the Amazon game goes live; Amazon won't want the competition (such as it is). Middle-Earth Enterprises will cancel SSG's license. Same thing happened to Star Wars Galaxies when Star Wars The Old Republic launched. I'm sure SSG already knows this; there won't be an official announcement until the Amazon game is close to launch.

[WhiteWolf21x]

LOTRO will be shut down just before the Amazon game goes live; Amazon won't want the competition (such as it is). Middle-Earth Enterprises will cancel SSG's license. Same thing happened to Star Wars Galaxies when Star Wars The Old Republic launched. I'm sure SSG already knows this; there won't be an official announcement until the Amazon game is close to launch.

Eh I disagree. Worst case scenario, Amazons Lotro is a smashing success and every flocks there, causing Lotro to shut down. Most likely scenario, Amazons MMO struggles, or just doesn't release. Middle Earth Enterprises has been involved with Lotr games for quite a while so they understand the whole process. Amazon on the other hand has been nothing short of a failure games-wise. They haven't released anything substantial in the 8 years they've been developing and New World has been a disaster from a design/develop/management standpoint. SSG and Lotro is currently a guarantee. Amazon's Lotr MMO is not. So Middle Earth Enterprises wont shut SSG down when they have proven to handle the IP just because Amazon wants them to. Especially since its not a guarantee that Amazons MMO will be good. MEE is not gonna take the chance of losing both incomes.

Edit: Also, if I was SSG and had the money/manpower I would try to race Amazon by making a Lotro 2.0. A refined version of the current game could be received better, especially if they release it before Amazons. Just something to think about.

[Erionor]

Eh I disagree. Worst case scenario, Amazons Lotro is a smashing success and every flocks there, causing Lotro to shut down. Most likely scenario, Amazons MMO struggles, or just doesn't release. Middle Earth Enterprises has been involved with Lotr games for quite a while so they understand the whole process. Amazon on the other hand has been nothing short of a failure games-wise. They haven't released anything substantial in the 8 years they've been developing and New World has been a disaster from a design/develop/management standpoint. SSG and Lotro is currently a guarantee. Amazon's Lotr MMO is not. So Middle Earth Enterprises wont shut SSG down when they have proven to handle the IP just because Amazon wants them to. Especially since its not a guarantee that Amazons MMO will be good. MEE is not gonna take the chance of losing both incomes.

Edit: Also, if I was SSG and had the money/manpower I would try to race Amazon by making a Lotro 2.0. A refined version of the current game could be received better, especially if they release it before Amazons. Just something to think about.

Further to this, Amazon’s effort is supposedly set in a different era to LOTRO, not covering the original story. So there is no reason why the two can’t co-exist. I’m not interested in the new one myself, and will stick with LOTRO - I suspect I’m not the only one ...

[Elmagor]

Eh I disagree. Worst case scenario, Amazons Lotro is a smashing success and every flocks there, causing Lotro to shut down. Most likely scenario, Amazons MMO struggles, or just doesn't release. Middle Earth Enterprises has been involved with Lotr games for quite a while so they understand the whole process. Amazon on the other hand has been nothing short of a failure games-wise. They haven't released anything substantial in the 8 years they've been developing and New World has been a disaster from a design/develop/management standpoint. SSG and Lotro is currently a guarantee. Amazon's Lotr MMO is not. So Middle Earth Enterprises wont shut SSG down when they have proven to handle the IP just because Amazon wants them to. Especially since its not a guarantee that Amazons MMO will be good. MEE is not gonna take the chance of losing both incomes.

Edit: Also, if I was SSG and had the money/manpower I would try to race Amazon by making a Lotro 2.0. A refined version of the current game could be received better, especially if they release it before Amazons. Just something to think about.

People who predict such nonsense what Lotro will be shut down forget what both Star Wars games was created by same companies and same people, in same scenarion Lotro will suffer only if SSG create Lotro 2.0. Also Star Wars The Old Republic was more ready when it happens, right now Amazon have nothing, they even don't finish recruting people. Game launch can't happen in near years.

[AlacrityFitzhugh]

Eh I disagree. Worst case scenario, Amazons Lotro is a smashing success and every flocks there, causing Lotro to shut down. Most likely scenario, Amazons MMO struggles, or just doesn't release. Middle Earth Enterprises has been involved with Lotr games for quite a while so they understand the whole process. Amazon on the other hand has been nothing short of a failure games-wise. They haven't released anything substantial in the 8 years they've been developing and New World has been a disaster from a design/develop/management standpoint. SSG and Lotro is currently a guarantee. Amazon's Lotr MMO is not. So Middle Earth Enterprises wont shut SSG down when they have proven to handle the IP just because Amazon wants them to. Especially since its not a guarantee that Amazons MMO will be good. MEE is not gonna take the chance of losing both incomes.

Edit: Also, if I was SSG and had the money/manpower I would try to race Amazon by making a Lotro 2.0. A refined version of the current game could be received better, especially if they release it before Amazons. Just something to think about.

It's not a question of success/failure, its about license exclusivity. No way Amazon is going to share the license with SSG. I will bet you that the timing of the Amazon game's release correlates with the expiration of the license with SSG. Middle-Earth Enterprises (formerly Tolkien Enterprises, aka The Saul Zaentz Company) has been very aggressive with their licensing schemes in the past (read about the demise of Iron Crown Enterprises), wanting to maximize profits (even more so now with both JRR and Christopher Tolkien gone). Amazon is a big wealthy company, SSG is not. Amazon will pay big $$$ for an exclusive license, and SSG will lose out. It is inevitable.

All that aside, we still have 2-3 years to play. That Amazon game won't be ready any time soon.

[AlacrityFitzhugh]

People who predict such nonsense what Lotro will be shut down forget what both Star Wars games was created by same companies and same people, in same scenarion Lotro will suffer only if SSG create Lotro 2.0. Also Star Wars The Old Republic was more ready when it happens, right now Amazon have nothing, they even don't finish recruting people. Game launch can't happen in near years.

To which Star Wars games do you refer? SWG was Sony Online Entertainment, SWTOR was Bioware/EA. They are/were set in completely different eras (SWG between ANH and ESG, SWTOR in the Old Republic a few thousand years earlier). SWG shut down less than a week before the launch of SWTOR.

[Elmagor]

To which Star Wars games do you refer? SWG was Sony Online Entertainment, SWTOR was Bioware/EA. They are/were set in completely different eras (SWG between ANH and ESG, SWTOR in the Old Republic a few thousand years earlier). SWG shut down less than a week before the launch of SWTOR.

It's not about different eras, it's about LucasArts decision, also Star Wars exclusive license goes to Electronic Arts.

[Erionor]

It's not a question of success/failure, its about license exclusivity. No way Amazon is going to share the license with SSG. I will bet you that the timing of the Amazon game's release correlates with the expiration of the license with SSG. Middle-Earth Enterprises (formerly Tolkien Enterprises, aka The Saul Zaentz Company) has been very aggressive with their licensing schemes in the past (read about the demise of Iron Crown Enterprises), wanting to maximize profits (even more so now with both JRR and Christopher Tolkien gone). Amazon is a big wealthy company, SSG is not. Amazon will pay big $$$ for an exclusive license, and SSG will lose out. It is inevitable.

All that aside, we still have 2-3 years to play. That Amazon game won't be ready any time soon.

See, what you say makes sense. However if that is the case, then why are there so many other LOTR games out there? There is a Gollum game from Daedalic in the pipeline for a 2021 release, so Amazon can’t have the exclusive license to the IP if that game is coming out at the same time. Surely they’d have to shut all the other games down too, or at the very least buy them all out, in order to do that? And if MEE want to maximise profits, then wouldn’t they want every possible profit-making revenue stream running? LOTRO must be making some kind of profit, or they wouldn’t still be going this long.

(Edit: Amazon’s game might have a negative impact on the LOTRO population, but I doubt they would see LOTRO as much competition with its relatively small playerbase. If they get a million players, LOTRO’s twenty thousand or whatever (no idea what the numbers are of course) aren’t going to make a lot of difference. If the Amazon game is going to be a success or failure, it will not depend on the existence of LOTRO, that’s for sure.)

Maybe they will buy LOTRO out, who knows. I just hope they don’t, because for all it’s faults, this game really does do Middle Earth justice and it would be a mighty shame to see it close down.

[WhiteWolf21x]

See, what you say makes sense. However if that is the case, then why are there so many other LOTR games out there? There is a Gollum game from Daedalic in the pipeline for a 2021 release, so Amazon can’t have the exclusive license to the IP if that game is coming out at the same time. Surely they’d have to shut all the other games down too, or at the very least buy them all out, in order to do that? And if MEE want to maximise profits, then wouldn’t they want every possible profit-making revenue stream running? LOTRO must be making some kind of profit, or they wouldn’t still be going this long.

There are several different video game licenses. According to the MEE License page EA, Warner Brothers, Daedalic, SSG, Athlon all have game licenses. So I guess MEE is just handing license out to anyone with a idea.

Edit: From what I can remember. EA had a games license in the early 2000's. Warner Brothers then got it late 2000's and still has it (Shadow of War games.) Turbine has a MMO license and got bought out by WB so that WB would have all of the licenses under one roof. Then SSG split off of WB and still has the MMO License. Athlon also has a MMO license while who knows what Daedalic has. So my guess would be that MEE is just being more open with licenses.

It's not a question of success/failure, its about license exclusivity. No way Amazon is going to share the license with SSG. I will bet you that the timing of the Amazon game's release correlates with the expiration of the license with SSG. Middle-Earth Enterprises (formerly Tolkien Enterprises, aka The Saul Zaentz Company) has been very aggressive with their licensing schemes in the past (read about the demise of Iron Crown Enterprises), wanting to maximize profits (even more so now with both JRR and Christopher Tolkien gone). Amazon is a big wealthy company, SSG is not. Amazon will pay big $$$ for an exclusive license, and SSG will lose out. It is inevitable.

The only reason I say its about success/failure is that there is no way MEE gives up Lotro (currently a guaranteed source of income) for Amazons MMO (currently a unknown) unless they are 100% certain Amazons MMO will be a hit. And Amazon Games doesn't have the greatest track record so there is a greater chance of their game not releasing over being a hit.

So unless Amazon shells out 50-100mill upfront (which would put even more pressure for their game to succeed.) Then I don't see MEE giving them exclusive rights until they can prove that their game can maintain a stable player base/income.

And going by the MEE Licensees page, Amazon doesn't even have the license, Athlon does. Amazon is just co-developing it. So who knows what will happen.

[Elmagor]

Edit: From what I can remember. EA had a games license in the early 2000's. Warner Brothers then got it late 2000's and still has it (Shadow of War games.) Turbine has a MMO license and got bought out by WB so that WB would have all of the licenses under one roof. Then SSG split off of WB and still has the MMO License. Athlon also has a MMO license while who knows what Daedalic has. So my guess would be that MEE is just being more open with licenses.


.

From what I remember, SSG get license after split with Turbine and renew it. And after first news in 2019, developers say what they don't have any problems renew it again

[gildhur]

LOTRO will be shut down just before the Amazon game goes live; Amazon won't want the competition (such as it is). Middle-Earth Enterprises will cancel SSG's license. Same thing happened to Star Wars Galaxies when Star Wars The Old Republic launched. I'm sure SSG already knows this; there won't be an official announcement until the Amazon game is close to launch.

New MMO or not, people have been predicting LotRO would lose its license and be shut down since the very first renewal in 2014. Please ignore these people. Forever.

[gildhur]

Also, there was chatter on my server last week about the new Amazon show and MMO, and several people said there was a recent confirmation that the MMO will be set in the Second Age like the show. As far as I've been able to find, there is no official information saying that anywhere. Has anyone else seen it?

[Elmagor]

Also, there was chatter on my server last week about the new Amazon show and MMO, and several people said there was a recent confirmation that the MMO will be set in the Second Age like the show. As far as I've been able to find, there is no official information saying that anywhere. Has anyone else seen it?

Info from game site, but no any new info for months

[WhiteWolf21x]

Also, there was chatter on my server last week about the new Amazon show and MMO, and several people said there was a recent confirmation that the MMO will be set in the Second Age like the show. As far as I've been able to find, there is no official information saying that anywhere. Has anyone else seen it?

From what I could tell, originally people though 2nd age to go along with the show. But since then I've heard that Amazon/Athlon have the same license as SSG and that the game will be based on the trilogy. Just look at the licenses. The TV show license is from Tolkien Estate itself. The MMO license is from Middle Earth Enterprises which only have Trilogy + Hobbit stuff. So its currently looking more like a 3rd Age setting instead of a 2nd Age one.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

As far as we know everything is just rumors now, much like the Amazon TV series, articles kept saying young aragorn, till we got official info from Amazon themselves that be second age story, so unless its official source anything about the new MMO is rumors
what do know is the TV series and MMO are unrelated that was stated on the official Amazon Games site. But its good to speculate and guess what the new MMO could be and timeline its set in.

[Elmagor]

As far as we know everything is just rumors now, much like the Amazon TV series, articles kept saying young aragorn, till we got official info from Amazon themselves that be second age story, so unless its official source anything about the new MMO is rumors
what do know is the TV series and MMO are unrelated that was stated on the official Amazon Games site. But its good to speculate and guess what the new MMO could be and timeline its set in.

http://www.athlongames.com/athlon-ga...h-enterprises/ - they never say 2nd age, but left hints about it

[Pontin_Finnberry]

http://www.athlongames.com/athlon-ga...h-enterprises/ - they never say 2nd age, but left hints about it

Yeah i remember that, was just saying the fact its unrelated to the TV series, Second Age is huge and covers a lot of time so MMO can still be in SA and not be same time as TV series.

[Elmagor]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ne.../1100-6475590/ - last news. Still no release date set, they still hiring people. They working on other MMO too (more ready), what delayed from april 2020 to august 2020. Also they confirms again what new game will be released on new consoles too

[oldsneakers]

I saw this last week. The YouTube video is impressive. The article says the demo was pitched back in 2009.


"Traveller's Tales, the game studio behind numerous LEGO titles, spent $1 million on a Lord of the Rings game pitch that never released, according to the studio's founder, Jon Burton. Burton revealed new details and gameplay for the Lord of the Rings game over on his YouTube channel, GameHut, and even for a title on the Xbox 360 and PS3, it looks incredibly impressive."

https://gamerant.com/lego-game-studi...d-rings-pitch/

We spent over $1,000,000 pitching a videogame we never made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grwnHJykybM
Full Level Gameplay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQxfx29i8x8
Gandalf VS Balrog fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIm-Wd0jYlM

[Pontin_Finnberry]

I saw this last week. The YouTube video is impressive. The article says the demo was pitched back in 2009.


"Traveller's Tales, the game studio behind numerous LEGO titles, spent $1 million on a Lord of the Rings game pitch that never released, according to the studio's founder, Jon Burton. Burton revealed new details and gameplay for the Lord of the Rings game over on his YouTube channel, GameHut, and even for a title on the Xbox 360 and PS3, it looks incredibly impressive."

https://gamerant.com/lego-game-studi...d-rings-pitch/

We spent over $1,000,000 pitching a videogame we never made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grwnHJykybM
Full Level Gameplay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQxfx29i8x8
Gandalf VS Balrog fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIm-Wd0jYlM

I saw this too was interesting, but this has nothing to do with Amazon's MMO just so others know.