Severlin Chat reactions

[Vilan]

I paid for one month VIP years ago to unlock swift travel, virtues, and such. I see no value to a continuing subscription. I can buy the occasional LP package to buy quests and expansions. Town services? Mailbox? I'm never more than a few minutes and/or a port away from those. Free repairs? Wow, that'll save me what, 10-20 gold a year? I'll kill a few more orcs instead, thanks. Moors access is somewhat of interest, but the Moors have been on the decline for most of a decade now, so even that is not worth it anymore. How about we fix the problems pushing people away? If you build it, they will come. My two cents.

[mithelenthor]

So, this is directed to nobody in particular as I don't want this to get into a one on one or two argument...

So, I get what the issue is here...

Due to the fact that SSG dropped all the quest packs as a freebie, you now, whilst waiting for your VIP 500LP stipend to grow enough to cover the price of the expansions/mini expansions, go back to levelling alts for a few months...

But because they gave us most of the earlier content for free and next to free.... you now feel the monthly payment doesn't have value? Although nothing has changed... albeit the particular part of the game you now choose to play was gifted.... (just for clarity this comes from a statement that VIP is good for new but not veteran)

I guess some of us still see the value in this game still, just the same as we did 12 years ago.... which is why we help keep the game running and don't expect a free ride, contrary to whatever other agenda here is trying to make that Lifers are the root cause.

For the record I know quite a few Lifers who all keep up with content even if a few of them only drop in and out of game when a new expac is released, which they pay for and play... In fact, and I know his son won't mind me saying this.... the only lifer I knew who doesn't play anymore passed away some time ago and his son still buys the expacs for his dads account and plays his main though the epic and BB etc... purely because his father loved this game and it gave him lots of things to do and people to talk to although being housebound. It is a sign of respect and my heart still misses a beat when I see my chat window says his characters name is logging in and out etc...

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Getting back from bashing lifers....

If you think VIP has been diminished.... then don't pay for it... Some have said they don't anymore.... It is not compulsory anymore... which is a shame because the game and community were a better place for it when it was a mandatory subscription game... (that is a whole other topic though - someone open a thread if you want to go down that route)

I would always like new things to be added to the VIP programme and I think they have done something that more than covers the cost of admission in my opinion... the in the field call out for town services and rapid crafting... It is a revelation, it really is.....

The point is, .......should we expect content to be free all the time as VIP..... No !!
The usual cycle of Expacs (barring the few years we didn't have them) was always to drop in the fall and then a few months later we got an add on which was covered by VIP.

Well this is the expac, just a small one due to not being able to get enough other stuff together to offer a full blown expac. So they reflect that in the cost... it isn't complicated !

[Valakircka]

while i have no problem buying the normal expansions of the game and i ve always bought the most expensive package,
i wont buy any update or mini expansion, call it as you like, that it should be included in a previous expansion!
the company is degrading lotro, while other newer games are offering more!
yes i know this is lotr and there is no other lotr and thought the game is old it still has a fantastik world and story......
but mind this....... we live in special times ssg ...... incomes of your customers are not as it was .........
your player base are getting older ....... lotr funs are getting older ........... you are not updating anything about your game,
not even your communication ........... still you asking for more ........ have fun with it ........

[Arnenna]

Nobody said lifers are the root cause here and nobody is bashing them, so please stop with that. The game has lifers that pay for expansions at launch, some at ultimate prices. The game has lifers that pay for points on top. The game has lifers that pay nothing, and wait for the expacs to become available for points. Then there are completely free to play players, that pay nothing at all. Then there are the premium players that paid some money into the game at some point, and never have since. As well as the other premium players that contribute regularly. There are also the VIP players that pay a regular sub and nothing more, and the VIP players that pay a sub, buy expansions and points on top. Then we have the VIPs that pay a regular sub, own all the content because they have purchased it, long before any free promo code existed, paid for all expansions and buy points.

We're a diverse bunch.

So, if the sub is no longer felt as worthwhile to those paying for it, stop paying for it. Great advice, and already done. Thanks.

$100 x 1 player = $100 a year, revenue lost (higher it a player pays per month, but let's keep it at the lowest amount, to keep it simple).

When that should reach 10 players, it's $1000 a year, revenue lost. For 100 players, it's $10,000 a year, revenue lost. When it reaches 1000 players, it's $100,000 a year revenue lost.

Yes, that's great advice.

[mithelenthor]

So, if the sub is no longer felt as worthwhile to those paying for it, stop paying for it. Great advice, and already done. Thanks.

$100 x 1 player = $100 a year, revenue lost (higher it a player pays per month, but let's keep it at the lowest amount, to keep it simple).

When that should reach 10 players, it's $1000 a year, revenue lost. For 100 players, it's $10,000 a year, revenue lost. When it reaches 1000 players, it's $100,000 a year revenue lost.

Yes, that's great advice.

Still it is your choice just as it is to SSG what they provide for VIP costs... Have you maybe thought that it is a possibility that ex-vip players end up spending more money even if it doesn't feel like it does when spread out over a year?

Maybe what you're after is for the Prod to have come out and said... hey folks we are also having a bad year... we are real people and are affected by Covid like the rest of you. We are working from home for the most part which makes development difficult because we don't have access to the same infrastructure and hardware than normal and so we can't offer X,Y and Z but we can offer the best we can and reflect that in the price but we still have overheads and if you want this game to go on then buy our content which costs less than a pizza and hopefully we can get back to normal service hopefully sometime during the next year....

Then ask for that !!..... (instead of firing pot shots at everyone else to cover for a poor argument)

To be honest I think that is exactly what he said (Severlin) if you look beyond your own narrow field of annoyance.

If you are correct and we spiral into oblivion and Lotro closes down, then you can pat yourselves on the back, feeling vindicated that because they gave you the content for free earlier in the year.. VIP and further Lotro no longer has any value to you and so you dropped?

I will also as a parting gift come on here and say you got it right and give you a /swordsalute before they close the servers down...

[Arnenna]

Still it is your choice just as it is to SSG what they provide for VIP costs... Have you maybe thought that it is a possibility that ex-vip players end up spending more money even if it doesn't feel like it does when spread out over a year?

Maybe what you're after is for the Prod to have come out and said... hey folks we are also having a bad year... we are real people and are affected by Covid like the rest of you. We are working from home for the most part which makes development difficult because we don't have access to the same infrastructure and hardware than normal and so we can't offer X,Y and Z but we can offer the best we can and reflect that in the price but we still have overheads and if you want this game to go on then buy our content which costs less than a pizza and hopefully we can get back to normal service hopefully sometime during the next year....

Then ask for that !!..... (instead of firing pot shots at everyone else to cover for a poor argument)

To be honest I think that is exactly what he said (Severlin) if you look beyond your own narrow field of annoyance.

If you are correct and we spiral into oblivion and Lotro closes down, then you can pat yourselves on the back, feeling vindicated that because they gave you the content for free earlier in the year.. VIP and further Lotro no longer has any value to you and so you dropped?

I will also as a parting gift come on here and say you got it right and give you a /swordsalute before they close the servers down...

I won't ask that, because that is not something I want - as I've already stated. I don't know if you are just skip reading or poking for the sake of it. I dropped my subscription because I won't support the game by paying it (yes, that is all my sub was doing, as I already owned all content, long before they gave it all away) when they won't support me by devaluing it further than they already have. I get the feeling that you think I'm kidding with that, but hey, what you think doesn't matter. SSG know the facts of it! They can take a look any time they want.

As for the narrow field of annoyance. If they wish to make a bit more money to help keep the lights glowing because of the consequences of the year, they could start by not making paying players - stop paying.

Beside that, I really don't have to provide you with reasons for my thoughts on this. I don't pay you anything and you do not provide the game for me to play. The thread is here so that SSG can get my feedback and read any suggestions that I make. Whether they listen or take anything on board, is also, down to them, and not you. Please feel free to keep adding your own feedback, that is your right of course, but getting all political and uppety with me, and constantly trying to micro manage my reasoning (and failing miserably with non factual information), is not your place. So please stop doing it.

I wouldn't want your salute thanks, I'd like to be wrong on the part about the game bleeding out a ton of revenue, but going on how many people in game that I know, are dropping their subscriptions over the latest new move, I'm not so sure that will be the case. In any event, it won't close it's door straight away, it will recoup revenue in a bid to stay afloat first, and I wonder, who will have to take the brunt of that. Good luck with that. It won't be me, because I'm already invested financially elsewhere, and unless things change here, I'll keep my revenue where it is now.

So on that note, this is my last response to you. I won't go back and forth with someone who insists they know the ins and outs of my contributions to the game, when they do not. That was something you raised issue with earlier, when you thought (incorrectly) that I'd done it to you. Yet, it's ok for you to do it, of course it is lol. Have a nice day.

[mithelenthor]

Problem is you seem too emotionally invested here in Lotro otherwise why would you be here trying to seemingly make it better with posts?
If you have moved on why do you get so annoyed when someone has a different view and pulls you up on your obvious attempt to divert your problem on to a minority in the player base for which you are not part of?

I'm glad you have become all magnanimous and will not reply because your aims may have been lofty and proud but the deliverance was poor and let you down.

Peace

[Narthalion]

while i have no problem buying the normal expansions of the game and i ve always bought the most expensive package,
i wont buy any update or mini expansion, call it as you like, that it should be included in a previous expansion!
the company is degrading lotro, while other newer games are offering more!
yes i know this is lotr and there is no other lotr and thought the game is old it still has a fantastik world and story......
but mind this....... we live in special times ssg ...... incomes of your customers are not as it was .........
your player base are getting older ....... lotr funs are getting older ........... you are not updating anything about your game,
not even your communication ........... still you asking for more ........ have fun with it ........

A lot of truth in this.

Thanks for posting.

[LadySelene]

I'd say they lost quite a lot of subs over the free quests code, and probably even after Minas Morgul release - that way someone might keep playing the latest zone without paying twice, which people don't like, and rightfully so. Why keep subbing if for the next 3-6 months you'll be running a zone added to your account forever? Those who keep a sub, probably pay for convenience, or don't care, or play at their own pace and wait for mini-expacs sold for LP, or need an exclusive VIP feature, such as PvMP or the tournament server. If VIPs get another exclusive event, there will be more subs. People mostly spend money on what they need, not on "what's good for community" or other generic ideas.

Did the free quests code pay for itself by drawing new people in the game, meaning they'll probably buy MM, vault upgrades, char slots, 1-3 months of VIP to unlock stuff? Probably. Did the mini-expac pay for itself over cancelled subs, by a stream of cash from end-gamers? Probably. I don't see it as a desperate cash-grab politics of a studio going underwater - just a business practice in a world in a crisis, where lots of gamers lost their income. And I think pros and cons of that approach were much discussed by the team. Next they might release a free-for-VIP area, to get subbers to sub and get LP from freemium end-gamers.

And, thank you SSG for the free quest code, as I was never going to buy Ered Mithrin and Vales at full price

[Fegefeuer]

Problem is you seem too emotionally invested here in Lotro otherwise why would you be here trying to seemingly make it better with posts?
If you have moved on why do you get so annoyed when someone has a different view and pulls you up on your obvious attempt to divert your problem on to a minority in the player base for which you are not part of?

I'm glad you have become all magnanimous and will not reply because your aims may have been lofty and proud but the deliverance was poor and let you down.

Peace

Nah the only reason I keep commenting occasionally is because I want to learn about mmo management. For my future.

[mithelenthor]

Nah the only reason I keep commenting occasionally is because I want to learn about mmo management. For my future.

Sorry I get confused? Is this an alternate account you reply from or just random quoting me?

[Arnenna]

Hmm, you can rest assured, I only have one forum account and the post above is not mine. Just clearing that up for anyone reading your pointed suggestion.

As you insist on still trying to engage with me, even after I have told you I will no longer partake, even to the extent of wondering if I'm logging in under a different name to somehow keep up a discussion with you. I'll just leave you with this. What you think I'm doing, or not doing is not important to me. Neither are your constant prods to keep this going.

"I'm already invested financially elsewhere" = I've moved on and no longer play this game?

Lol, only in your head, like much else that you've guessed at in this thread.

Just because my investment has moved elsewhere, doesn't mean I have.

[Fegefeuer]

Sorry I get confused? Is this an alternate account you reply from or just random quoting me?

LOL I thought you meant "you" as second person plural. "You" as to the people who comment a lot giving suggestions to improve the game etc. I fall into that category, so I replied to you

[Mirhaen]

So, I get what the issue is here...

Due to the fact that SSG dropped all the quest packs as a freebie, you now, whilst waiting for your VIP 500LP stipend to grow enough to cover the price of the expansions/mini expansions, go back to levelling alts for a few months...

You are assuming too much. I hope you can try to understand because I believe it is important that we all are on the same page, developers included, so that we can move forward and make things better. So first of all, I have my yearly sub and I paid for new mini expansion as soon as it was out. Took me few days because purchase was not possible for many people, including myself, which is just one of many issues... I have paid in cash for literally every single expansion. I have never paid any with points. That is the fact and it can be checked and they are welcome to do so.

The alts I play are all on level 125 to 130. I would very much love to go back to old areas and level again if only they would do something about grind. Right now I'm barely managing to keep up with my existing alts.

But because they gave us most of the earlier content for free and next to free.... you now feel the monthly payment doesn't have value? Although nothing has changed... albeit the particular part of the game you now choose to play was gifted.... (just for clarity this comes from a statement that VIP is good for new but not veteran)

When they gave content for free, I actually said it was nice of them to do so. There was a forum post on this subject so my comment can be traced back and checked. I didn't mind. But it was important what will happened next. because some people with paid sub where already not happy with this decision. And then came 3 Peaks that most VIP players expected to be free. But of course that's not all. Lack of communication, classes unwelcome into serious content, lag issue, store not working, crafting becoming obsolete, useless class trees, endless grind, legendary items issue and many other things that were voiced many times on this forum alone. We are getting new things and piling up on old problems, and some of those problems are there literary for years. Giving away content and 3 Peaks was just a drop in an already full glass so to say.

If you think VIP has been diminished.... then don't pay for it... Some have said they don't anymore.... It is not compulsory anymore... which is a shame because the game and community were a better place for it when it was a mandatory subscription game... (that is a whole other topic though - someone open a thread if you want to go down that route)

That would be logical I suppose, but I'm still optimistic and checking what is further going on. I feel indeed that I don't get much or enough for my yearly sub, other than the way to support the game. I have unlocked all I needed. I don't care about legendary server or whatever else that might come as I got no time for it. I go to Moors not at all to twice per year. I bought with cash every expansion. It doesn't matter, because I do want to support the game! But heck I want to see things getting better in return. And for my part, that's all there is to it really.

I would always like new things to be added to the VIP programme and I think they have done something that more than covers the cost of admission in my opinion... the in the field call out for town services and rapid crafting... It is a revelation, it really is.....

Yes, I agree, I enjoy rapid crafting especially, it saves me time. Some other people don't need such things at all. So I understand there are all kinds of people and is hard to please everyone, but there are some things that are commonly valued by most, like getting free area, less grind and more points (things got very expensive in the store).

The point is, .......should we expect content to be free all the time as VIP..... No !!
The usual cycle of Expacs (barring the few years we didn't have them) was always to drop in the fall and then a few months later we got an add on which was covered by VIP.

Well this is the expac, just a small one due to not being able to get enough other stuff together to offer a full blown expac. So they reflect that in the cost... it isn't complicated !

All I tried to point out is that as things stand at the moment, many veteran players have most of what they need, and rest we buy anyway. They need to find a way to make sub more attractive as many people (some did already) will cancel their sub. And I say this in a good and caring spirit. I want to see game going and getting better. I'm glad they are working on Moors finally. I'm rarely there but I do know we have many players that enjoy it greatly. Many also left because Moors was also standing problem for years now... Can they start fixing things before people give up? That would be nice.

[Narthalion]

And then came 3 Peaks that most VIP players expected to be free. But of course that's not all. Lack of communication, classes unwelcome into serious content, lag issue, store not working, crafting becoming obsolete, useless class trees, endless grind, legendary items issue and many other things that were voiced many times on this forum alone. We are getting new things and piling up on old problems, and some of those problems are there literally for years.

Well said.

[mithelenthor]

~snip~

You make it sound like any of this is new? It isn't.... people have had the same gripes since F2P was here and some of the things you say before even that.

Listen, I only weighed in because some folks were trying to make the Lifers the scapegoat of this situation. I personally would like the VIP to have extra things added to it, the more the better as far as I'm concerned but please don't tell me that you expected that some ground content that was shipped this time of year was to be free.... ??

What if they had said that there was an ILI update and a new class was shipping? Would you have paid $40 $80 or $130 for it? Well your comments said you would... you said you have purchased every expansion....

So, when they ship a mini expansion which due to Covid and the fact they are working from home with little access to test servers are you then that enraged when they massively reduce the cost to reflect this?

Do we want them to work on all the other things you mention? Well err Yes of course but there is a limited team working in limiting conditions....

[Elmagor]

And then came 3 Peaks that most VIP players expected to be free. But of course that's not all. Lack of communication, classes unwelcome into serious content, lag issue, store not working, crafting becoming obsolete, useless class trees, endless grind, legendary items issue and many other things that were voiced many times on this forum alone. We are getting new things and piling up on old problems, and some of those problems are there literary for years. Giving away content and 3 Peaks was just a drop in an already full glass so to say.

They never, never call it questpack and never say it will be free for every VIP player. As example, we get free content with Update 27: The Great Wedding and they never call it free too. If VIP players thinking what everything in the game must be free just for them, why blame SSG for that? They always saying what War of Three Peaks will be huge update with raid, it's already must work as red button and warning for players. They never call u27 with Wells of Langflood or u28 with Wedding as huge important update. Storyilne wise, wedding was very important, but in terms of content u28 was always bigger when they talking about it

[Mirhaen]

You make it sound like any of this is new?

It does sometimes sound like people living in different realms

I did said that some problems existed for a years now, it doesn't mean people will keep on putting up with it endlessly...

But some major problems, which are to me personally more important, are relatively new, and came with lvl 100 and Mordor. I'm gonna mention some of it now. At the same time we got pushed heavily towards store.

We had change in legendary items system, a huge beast demanding to be fed with every level increase. This proved to be crippling for people adventuring around and getting to end level. Also those with alts. I have witnessed people making char, buying Valar on discount, for the sole reason of LI grind. I can't blame them. I have zero wish to level any alt any longer.

We had (still going on) great devaluation in crafting system. Actually, as a matter of fact, crafting was on occasion not just devalued but obsolete even. Absolute rubbish recipes with great amount of needed mats, unworthy to even mention let alone spend time on farming mats and crafting. Long awaited crafted relic that was barred behind raid drop. When we finally got some worthy off hands, bows and shields, guess what happened, they upped level of those items in boxes and with better variations for some classes. And who can understand now getting recipes and better items in waves, in one expansion. Just in case we thought we are done with grind...

We got items that are no longer obtainable in the game - keys and solvents. I do not recall last time I saw solvent drop for me or anyone else, it has been few years literally, and yet our gear is heavily about solvents.

We seen most items getting bound, we got more and more various restrictions across the board, from how many times you can do instance, how many one or another coins you can have, how much points you can gain and so on. With all this, we have less and less means to help other players also.

Do I understand that game needs money to keep on going? Of course I do. I feel somewhat unpleasant talking about numbers. It always come across badly... like bragging. I'm just gonna say, I've spent more than usual in last two years, as a matter of support and hoping to see things improved. I can provide exact number if that's of importance to anyone.

Do I understand that this covid situation is difficult for the game? Yes of course I do, but it's same for everyone. I am essential worker and the only good thing about it, but major one however, is that I got to keep my job, unlike many other fellow players.

[Mirhaen]

They never, never call it questpack and never say it will be free for every VIP player. As example, we get free content with Update 27: The Great Wedding and they never call it free too. If VIP players thinking what everything in the game must be free just for them, why blame SSG for that? They always saying what War of Three Peaks will be huge update with raid, it's already must work as red button and warning for players. They never call u27 with Wells of Langflood or u28 with Wedding as huge important update. Storyilne wise, wedding was very important, but in terms of content u28 was always bigger when they talking about it

So you are quoting my sentence in which I actually explained that is not solely about 3 Peaks being delivered as a mini expansion... it is rather quite a few things combined and each thing can be last drop for someone.

I said time and time again, we criticize and complain because we still care. I read this forum, and sometimes problems of someone are not my own, but I always try to see things from other perspective and to land support where I see it fit. For example, people on low levels or just starting out, surely have no idea what is all fuss about legendary items, or sub. Or those that don't raid see no problem in fully gearing and maxing alts. Or those with one alt not being able to comprehend the grind behind for those that would like to have few. Or does that do not craft and couldn't care less about it. And so on. This is diverse bunch but we need to at least try to understand each others. Chance is high that your problem today is mine tomorrow, and other way around. When I spoke against legendary server, people were jumping onto my throat. Only to see same people complaining later on, about same things I originally spoke about. One needed no orb to predict it.

[Narthalion]

I said time and time again, we criticize and complain because we still care. I read this forum, and sometimes problems of someone are not my own, but I always try to see things from other perspective and to land support where I see it fit. For example, people on low levels or just starting out, surely have no idea what is all fuss about legendary items, or sub. Or those that don't raid see no problem in fully gearing and maxing alts. Or those with one alt not being able to comprehend the grind behind for those that would like to have few. Or does that do not craft and couldn't care less about it. And so on. This is diverse bunch but we need to at least try to understand each others. Chance is high that your problem today is mine tomorrow, and other way around. When I spoke against legendary server, people were jumping onto my throat. Only to see same people complaining later on, about same things I originally spoke about. One needed no orb to predict it.

Thank you for putting what so many of us feel into words.

Take care.

[Elmagor]

So you are quoting my sentence in which I actually explained that is not solely about 3 Peaks being delivered as a mini expansion... it is rather quite a few things combined and each thing can be last drop for someone.

I said time and time again, we criticize and complain because we still care. I read this forum, and sometimes problems of someone are not my own, but I always try to see things from other perspective and to land support where I see it fit. For example, people on low levels or just starting out, surely have no idea what is all fuss about legendary items, or sub. Or those that don't raid see no problem in fully gearing and maxing alts. Or those with one alt not being able to comprehend the grind behind for those that would like to have few. Or does that do not craft and couldn't care less about it. And so on. This is diverse bunch but we need to at least try to understand each others. Chance is high that your problem today is mine tomorrow, and other way around. When I spoke against legendary server, people were jumping onto my throat. Only to see same people complaining later on, about same things I originally spoke about. One needed no orb to predict it.

I never consider mini-expansion as problem, as long as they have 1)Expansion set with their normal price and mini-expansion must be bigger when questpack, but less when true expansion 2)They keep delivering questpacks and bigger expansions between them. They want something big, like 3-5 locations? Ok, that expansion, 40$ or more. Less when 3 locations, but still bigger when questpacks? Ok, that's mini-expansion, and it must take enough time for work to cover 2 questpacks - 20$ and more. 1 location only? That's questpack. With such structure, Where Dragon Dwell must be mini-expansion too. And they have all rights to do it.

[mithelenthor]

It does sometimes sound like people living in different realms

I did said that some problems existed for a years now, it doesn't mean people will keep on putting up with it endlessly...

But some major problems, which are to me personally more important, are relatively new, and came with lvl 100 and Mordor. I'm gonna mention some of it now. At the same time we got pushed heavily towards store.

We had change in legendary items system, a huge beast demanding to be fed with every level increase. This proved to be crippling for people adventuring around and getting to end level. Also those with alts. I have witnessed people making char, buying Valar on discount, for the sole reason of LI grind. I can't blame them. I have zero wish to level any alt any longer.

We had (still going on) great devaluation in crafting system. Actually, as a matter of fact, crafting was on occasion not just devalued but obsolete even. Absolute rubbish recipes with great amount of needed mats, unworthy to even mention let alone spend time on farming mats and crafting. Long awaited crafted relic that was barred behind raid drop. When we finally got some worthy off hands, bows and shields, guess what happened, they upped level of those items in boxes and with better variations for some classes. And who can understand now getting recipes and better items in waves, in one expansion. Just in case we thought we are done with grind...

We got items that are no longer obtainable in the game - keys and solvents. I do not recall last time I saw solvent drop for me or anyone else, it has been few years literally, and yet our gear is heavily about solvents.

We seen most items getting bound, we got more and more various restrictions across the board, from how many times you can do instance, how many one or another coins you can have, how much points you can gain and so on. With all this, we have less and less means to help other players also.

Do I understand that game needs money to keep on going? Of course I do. I feel somewhat unpleasant talking about numbers. It always come across badly... like bragging. I'm just gonna say, I've spent more than usual in last two years, as a matter of support and hoping to see things improved. I can provide exact number if that's of importance to anyone.

Do I understand that this covid situation is difficult for the game? Yes of course I do, but it's same for everyone. I am essential worker and the only good thing about it, but major one however, is that I got to keep my job, unlike many other fellow players.

Everything you have written above is valid issues and makes some kind of sense now you explain it in context and so I am kind of confused into what this has to do with my discussion with Anana regarding lifetime VIPs and how they cannot have a voice because we don't have to "pay" for the game and therefore the VIP perks or "free" content or not doesn't affect us and then them wanting extra sideline of VIP perks that only those with a subscription which is paid each cycle can get and Lifetime folks wouldn't. If you started to comment to me because you think that is a good idea then you can understand why it sounds like the same jealousy that seemed to fuel the other.

If the mini expansion is just the straw that broke the camels back then I understand that to. This game is a monster... it has grown out of all proportion and the grind that they "HAVE" to put in has itself become intolerable because there is nobody following on and doing clean up for the content behind. In an ideal world there should be a developer whose only task is work 2 to 3 updates behind and tidy up the grind and add continuity and direction for the lower levels... re-level areas and grind and then it makes it far easier to dig our alts out. And I seriously have no idea how a new player would get on... I mean it is complete nonsensical the amount of work to get from level one to level 130 and to have a set of 2-4 maxed out ILI !!

If it is getting you down that much I would suggest a little break. Maybe don't play until after Christmas and then come back and take stock. I can't see anything changing at least in the next 2 years and then you have to wonder where the game will be... the narrative is getting fairly thin and they seem reluctant to come back to the core of the story.

[Mirhaen]

Everything you have written above is valid issues and makes some kind of sense now you explain it in context and so I am kind of confused into what this has to do with my discussion with Anana regarding lifetime VIPs and how they cannot have a voice because we don't have to "pay" for the game and therefore the VIP perks or "free" content or not doesn't affect us and then them wanting extra sideline of VIP perks that only those with a subscription which is paid each cycle can get and Lifetime folks wouldn't. If you started to comment to me because you think that is a good idea then you can understand why it sounds like the same jealousy that seemed to fuel the other.

I jumped into conversation to try to explain about sub issue and got carried away as things are connected and lead me to other subjects and problems, I apologize.

I have no problem with Lifers and no problem with F2P players, never said a word about it, and I don't think Arnenna has any also. He/she was trying to explain that the game is compensating and trying to get coins from everyone in different ways, and those subbed for a long time got the worst end of it. And then went on to suggest what can be done about it. I don't want to speak for others, just explaining, as I understood. Surely we can agree, based on both speculation and partial knowledge, that some Lifers, just like other kind of players, are giving some money to the game, and some are not. Common sense and the fact that most of us know players from both ends.

If we take a look at the last 3 quest packs (marketed as 'free' for VIP players): Lifers paid nothing, VIP players paid 200$, F2P players paid roughly 4300 points (again roughly 4300 LP comes to about 40$ but ofc they could buy some points on discount and grind for some so it's hard to even speculated). Just as well, some VIP players might have subbed shortly and paid less. And then we all had to pay for expansions in one way or another. Taking into account this and what I spoke before about sub, clearly frustration comes from yearly subbed veteran players. That is the main issue and something we need to understand and concentrate on - yearly sub.

I understand Lifers took risk at start and paid their due but Lifers also got their worth out of it many times over. Veteran VIP players would also want to get their worth out of their sub. Because of the fact that you can sub shortly and get free area, we either need some sub tiers or yearly sub to become way more attractive in some other manner. And that without taking anything that was promised to others.

[mithelenthor]

I jumped into conversation to try to explain about sub issue and got carried away as things are connected and lead me to other subjects and problems, I apologize.

I have no problem with Lifers and no problem with F2P players, never said a word about it, and I don't think Arnenna has any also. He/she was trying to explain that the game is compensating and trying to get coins from everyone in different ways, and those subbed for a long time got the worst end of it. And then went on to suggest what can be done about it. I don't want to speak for others, just explaining, as I understood. Surely we can agree, based on both speculation and partial knowledge, that some Lifers, just like other kind of players, are giving some money to the game, and some are not. Common sense and the fact that most of us know players from both ends.

If we take a look at the last 3 quest packs (marketed as 'free' for VIP players): Lifers paid nothing, VIP players paid 200$, F2P players paid roughly 4300 points (again roughly 4300 LP comes to about 40$ but ofc they could buy some points on discount and grind for some so it's hard to even speculated). Just as well, some VIP players might have subbed shortly and paid less. And then we all had to pay for expansions in one way or another. Taking into account this and what I spoke before about sub, clearly frustration comes from yearly subbed veteran players. That is the main issue and something we need to understand and concentrate on - yearly sub.

I understand Lifers took risk at start and paid their due but Lifers also got their worth out of it many times over. Veteran VIP players would also want to get their worth out of their sub. Because of the fact that you can sub shortly and get free area, we either need some sub tiers or yearly sub to become way more attractive in some other manner. And that without taking anything that was promised to others.

Once again thank you for explaining so articulately ....

So, what I suggest is to forget mention of Lifers as it seems to invoke emotion whether passionately or in the slightest terms and because they have grandfather rights to anything VIP then let's discuss how we can make the VIP better for those like yourself that pay monthly or Yearly subsciption.

What is it that would make the subscription worthwhile?

Let us forget the gift of quest packs from earlier in the year as though we missed out on that......

So, as I understand it as a VIP you get the below minus the quests bundled with Expacs....

• Mailbox Field Access!
• Custom character portrait frame
• Access All Character Trait Slots
• Daily +100% XP*
• 500 LOTRO Points per month
• Free weekly Gold Hobbit Present
• Access All Quest Packs and Skirmishes*
• Access All Monster Classes
• Unlimited Chat
• Access All Crafting Guilds
• 20 Slots of Shared Wardrobe Space
• No 5g Currency Cap
• Additional Inventory Slots
• Maximum Auction House Listings

So, what would make it more attractive to yourself and others to keep a VIP ?

Maybe -50% grind on ILI or automatic unlocks of tiers for VIPs? Maybe 25 or 50 mithril coins per month?

How about VIP gives you free rental of a premium house?

I would be interested in what you and others would say it would take to make VIP viable to yourselves.....

Peace and be safe...

[Dolamrothdame]

VIPs already get free rent on premium houses, so that's another perk that can be added to the list. Like others have said, I'd like to see the gold hobbit presents upgraded to something decent. I log in on four servers pretty regularly and get the exact same thing lots of times on the silver and gold presents. The extra gold Yule goodies were nice last year, to be sure, but the every day presents are really underwhelming. I'd also be up for mithril or some relief from the LI/essence grind.