Evernight is unplayable due to lag... again

[Raninia]

Removing weapon-swapping did indeed reduce instances of lag during group content, but has not completely removed all lag. We never said it would do so. We're continuing to work on lag, hoping to roll out the changes we introduced to Arkenstone and Landroval to all other servers this week.

Servers are indeed still 32-bit, as Sev said, we're working on 64-bit servers right now.

[ItaOperor]

Removing weapon-swapping did indeed reduce instances of lag during group content, but has not completely removed all lag. We never said it would do so. We're continuing to work on lag, hoping to roll out the changes we introduced to Arkenstone and Landroval to all other servers this week.

Servers are indeed still 32-bit, as Sev said, we're working on 64-bit servers right now.

Hi Raninia,

Have the devs come up with a solution for the fishing quests that also require combat?

[1Asy1]

Hi Raninia,

Have the devs come up with a solution for the fishing quests that also require combat?

In the grand scale of things, I really hope that is top of the list.

[Nubja]

Removing weapon-swapping did indeed reduce instances of lag during group content, but has not completely removed all lag. We never said it would do so. We're continuing to work on lag, hoping to roll out the changes we introduced to Arkenstone and Landroval to all other servers this week.

Servers are indeed still 32-bit, as Sev said, we're working on 64-bit servers right now.

Speaking as someone who plays the game, i've not noticed any lag reduction as you say there has been. It has been the worst lag in months since this update came out. It's quite clear to me that sheer volume of players is and always was a significantly greater cause of lag than weapon swapping


Let's pray that these 64 bit servers are a magic bullet because the sad reality appears to be that there is no solution for this.

[Raninia]

Speaking as someone who plays the game, i've not noticed any lag reduction as you say there has been. It has been the worst lag in months since this update came out. It's quite clear to me that sheer volume of players is and always was a significantly greater cause of lag than weapon swapping


Let's pray that these 64 bit servers are a magic bullet because the sad reality appears to be that there is no solution for this.

There's no magic bullet. Lag isn't just one bad thing that hasn't been addressed - it's a bunch of stuff stacking up on top of each other.

Removing weapon swapping makes that stack a little lighter. The perf improvements we tested on Landroval and Arkenstone is another. 64-bit servers, worldbuilding process improvements, skill effect pathways, etc. - it all makes that stack lower and further exposes the next big things for us to tackle.

We're gonna keep working on it. Some of the improvements will be big and widely seen, some will be smaller but deeper, but they all get us closer to a more performant game.

[istvana]

You should never forget - and I do not think you do forget - the importance of first impressions on new players. With many of your plans based on the hope of a huge boost from the TV show next year.

All of the good things in the game - and there are many - take time to get to and enjoy.

Two things that new players will notice almost instantly are the complex and expensive monetization - much worse than most MMOs - and the poor server performance. Monetization you will be fixing though since none of us really enjoys spending money you will never make all of us happy.

If server performance can be significantly improved by taking things that some of us really enjoy but that are far from essential out of the game - do it. A lot of the load on the servers comes from having so many effects that characters can have going - whether from cast buffs, or traits or otherwise. Personally I prefer a game that isn't overly simplified and think too many mechanics have been "nerfed" - crafting not least among them. But if you can dramatically reduce poor performance by another round of simplifications and taking redundant or at least not essential mechanisms and abilities right out of the game - do it for the long-term health of LOTRO. Even though some of us will leave - maybe me and maybe not me - when our favorite ox gets gored.

[Braer]

There's no magic bullet. Lag isn't just one bad thing that hasn't been addressed - it's a bunch of stuff stacking up on top of each other.

Removing weapon swapping makes that stack a little lighter. The perf improvements we tested on Landroval and Arkenstone is another. 64-bit servers, worldbuilding process improvements, skill effect pathways, etc. - it all makes that stack lower and further exposes the next big things for us to tackle.

We're gonna keep working on it. Some of the improvements will be big and widely seen, some will be smaller but deeper, but they all get us closer to a more performant game.

Great to see some acknowledgement of where you are looking. Yes the swap as a combat routine was untenable in choosing to further increase the overhead of stats provided by an LI. Not our choice. A bad choice to prevent any swap for changing circumstances by implementing a short delay though. We don't have the room to slot for the rare occurrence or to combat against a new mob's abilities if it's only a waste for the other 99% of encounters. Many don't go into fights mindless of a potential to change tactic before our defeat.

I hope the worldbuilding reference is the first acknowledgement that the shortcuts/tech to building Missions and the multi maps of recent areas has only increased issues for higher pop servers as to date it's received the usual silence as if it wasn't recognised and our feedback isn't passed on. How can we have any confidence if we are fed derisible excuses and management level staff source "content creators" for their dubious game knowledge.

Can you change the the mindset to deny and let misconceptions run rife? So we aren't pushed to break our CMs rules for being honest. But if you are testing a targeted change to address a specific area can we have an indication of that intent rather than the usual vague try this that only brings out a Pavlovian response from some more insular quarters to muddy the waters.

I don't have the inclination to delve back into the merge details right now but I'm very surprised that all the work done on the server merge and datacentre move wasn't the ideal time to build a 64-bit server. There was a lot posted back then, yet not anything that looked bad, like the promised EU datacentre. Allowing us to infer unchecked still the policy? Are you changing that?

[LagunaD2]

There's no magic bullet. Lag isn't just one bad thing that hasn't been addressed - it's a bunch of stuff stacking up on top of each other.

Removing weapon swapping makes that stack a little lighter. The perf improvements we tested on Landroval and Arkenstone is another. 64-bit servers, worldbuilding process improvements, skill effect pathways, etc. - it all makes that stack lower and further exposes the next big things for us to tackle.

We're gonna keep working on it. Some of the improvements will be big and widely seen, some will be smaller but deeper, but they all get us closer to a more performant game.

Why wouldn't provisioning more server computing power and network bandwidth, instead of cutting corners to save on costs as you seem to be doing, be a magic bullet?

When it takes 20+ seconds to move a single item from my inventory to the vault, it's hard to believe that anything other than inadequate server resources is to blame.

[Braer]

The VIP bank anywhere option has just exposed how where you are has a big impact. Go to a quiet place with some, but little footfall for those chores. Location, location, location. Same with missions exit go somewhere quiet to hurry the process, spread the load for server's sake.

The Summer of discontent came after a long period of low pops as if it was an adjustment to generally lower numbers. Did they go down a rabbit hole they can't escape now the numbers are much higher after all the work done to down size? There was the suggestion of not replicating expertise at both Daybreak and SSG, would be an obvious saving if Daybreak had this non-game specific talent already. Might explain the struggles with dormant servers if the game specific database knowledge has gone. It would be good corporate choice but don't know if it's one that was taken and has it's consequences. The Market going to Daybreak control would back up this philosophy. Be good to know in this new era of transparency.

[oggbnvwnyc]

There's no magic bullet. Lag isn't just one bad thing that hasn't been addressed - it's a bunch of stuff stacking up on top of each other.

Removing weapon swapping makes that stack a little lighter. The perf improvements we tested on Landroval and Arkenstone is another. 64-bit servers, worldbuilding process improvements, skill effect pathways, etc. - it all makes that stack lower and further exposes the next big things for us to tackle.

We're gonna keep working on it. Some of the improvements will be big and widely seen, some will be smaller but deeper, but they all get us closer to a more performant game.

Just LOL: please stop it with your happy-go-lucky attitude combined with "work" you claim you've done while beating the dead horse of "We're working on it".

- Server performance has been atrocious since forever, and most noticeably since U25:
-- Rubber-banding on warhorse or even on normal mounts
-- NPC dialogue windows taking up to ~10-15 seconds before they appear after clicking on them
-- Taking up to ~10-15 seconds until I can use quest items in the world, resources nodes etc.
-- "Reduced Awareness" outside of your local prime-time with barely a few hundred people playing
-- Playing any instanced content during prime time is self-mutilation as everything just lags, more or less permanently, and thus it's pointless to even bother with that type of content


I mean seriously: how come a company who's responsible for a game based on the LotR IP can't provide decent servers for years, but fan-run unofficial servers of MMOs and MMORPGs run just fine, even when they're located in the US?
I can't think of any still-running MMO or MMORPG that has such atrocious servers as Lotro, and I've played the majority of them that have been or are still available.


Edit: it also leaves a really bad taste behind when SSG didn't even acknowledge the plethora of server issues for years, and yet here you are downplaying and deflecting long-standing issues, and your "work" quite apparently has little to no impact to remedy those issues, right?

[BotLike]

I mean seriously: how come a company who's responsible for a game based on the LotR IP can't provide decent servers for years, but fan-run unofficial servers of MMOs and MMORPGs run just fine, even when they're located in the US?
I can't think of any still-running MMO or MMORPG that has such atrocious servers as Lotro, and I've played the majority of them that have been or are still available.

Sadly , this is true. It's just unacceptable and there is 0 excuse.
Trying to present ''many'' players as a reason for lagging , is just laughable , since it happens even with less than 1000 people playing during off-peak , and 1k people is a joke for a server to handle.
No idea what's going on with this game , i doubt SSG knows either or they just don't want to pay for fixing the issue , either through hardware or through engineering time.

I often feel bad as a player for supporting this game while it manages to get away with such significant issues over the years , that would shut other games down.

[1Asy1]

No improvement on EN since the patch, lagging in the homestead - 3-5 seconds between skills suddenly.

[Nubja]

Sadly not seeing any improvement for me either, same lags and freezes and delays tonight in stairs that were shown in my video.

[Braer]

It was loading into Bree bank on a level 5 toon, with layering from the festival, took about 20 seconds to open vault then another 15 for shared. 1k+ non-anons. Expected.

[Greenarrow46]

The lag on evernight is atrocious since yesterday's patch, also 7 crashes within an hour more than i've had in 6months put together, the patch was supposed to improve the lag and gameplay but all you have done SSG is made it worse, c'mon get your act together.

[BlitzKr1eg]

Nothing will happen unless you start to vote with your wallets, why would SSG put huge resources into this issue if you the players continue to support them with money?

I can't think of any online game were the performance is this awful, yet there's loads of Evernight players that continues to support SSG with their cash...I simply can't understand it.

For most ppl its quite clear that SSG sees this game a mere money-cow, and as long as the players keeps supporting them nothing will change.

What's even more ridiculous is that us Europeans have to pay the exact same amount as American players, yet we're stuck huge delay since SSG can't be bothered to rent servers in Europe.

If you're still paying for an extremely poor performing game like this in 2021, then you're either stupid or an addict.

[HeliStorm]

Nothing will happen unless you start to vote with your wallets, why would SSG put huge resources into this issue if you the players continue to support them with money?

I can't think of any online game were the performance is this awful, yet there's loads of Evernight players that continues to support SSG with their cash...I simply can't understand it.

For most ppl its quite clear that SSG sees this game a mere money-cow, and as long as the players keeps supporting them nothing will change.

What's even more ridiculous is that us Europeans have to pay the exact same amount as American players, yet we're stuck huge delay since SSG can't be bothered to rent servers in Europe.

If you're still paying for an extremely poor performing game like this in 2021, then you're either stupid or an addict.

Yeah i've said this many times, im not gonna spend a dime until lag is fixed. Well i need the new exp so i bought the cheapest version. I would gladly spend more if this lag is fixed, and many with me are doin the same. Too bad they dont get that.

[oggbnvwnyc]

Nothing will happen unless you start to vote with your wallets, why would SSG put huge resources into this issue if you the players continue to support them with money?

I can't think of any online game were the performance is this awful, yet there's loads of Evernight players that continues to support SSG with their cash...I simply can't understand it.

For most ppl its quite clear that SSG sees this game a mere money-cow, and as long as the players keeps supporting them nothing will change.

What's even more ridiculous is that us Europeans have to pay the exact same amount as American players, yet we're stuck huge delay since SSG can't be bothered to rent servers in Europe.

If you're still paying for an extremely poor performing game like this in 2021, then you're either stupid or an addict.

As I already pointed out above: unofficial, fan-run servers of MMOs and MMORPGs can easily be created + maintained while being very stable, something which those "industry veterans" at SSG fail since forever it seems.

But hey: presumably somewhere in 2022 will Lotro finally have a scaling UI for anything above 1080p, so I reckon it might only take until 2024/2025 for SSG to afford the skills + tech needed to get something as utterly basic as stable servers for that very small group of players who still bother with playing Lotro.

[Nubja]

Been a few days now and can confirm that from a player side, the lag is the same/worse at times. Shame

[Emaldiom]

Done a few raids on Evernight the past days and have had the normal 1-2 seconds skill delays here and there, but nothing major as previously 30sec - 1min huge everything stop lag spikes.
Landscape and trying to dummy parse on Evernight is however a different story.. I had massive 5-6 second skill delays during a 3 min parse

Also looking at world chat there is every ~5min someone or multiple people complaining about lag spikes and what they call "Insane lag"

For me it seems the unplayable lag in raids is somewhat better, but landscape and general world experience is far worse than before

[Caladrea]

if what SSG wants is to drive their player base to other games, then they have surely definitely found the way to do it!
CONGRATULATIONS SSG!

First lets get the Rinse/Repeat quote out of the way....

Why the hell is SSG adding unnecessary classes and changing year old systems to bring new and old players to this game when the game is broken in too many other ways to mention?
I think what most want to see isn't a pretty pointless new LI system which many players are pissed off about because there was nothing wrong with the old system and for the time we've 'wasted' on perfecting our old LI's, that's not what's going to keep us ingame once the novelty wears off.
Neither is a Rocky Balboa style class, Runekeepers were just borderline acceptable, but Brawlers! Seriously come on!
This is Middle Earth! not 20th century Bronx!

It's all well and good SSG claiming they're doing this or that to improve things but like everyone else who's posted here, Evernight is unplayable on some - well becoming most to all - days!
Where's the better that's being paid for?
Efforts and funds would have been far better spent improving performance rather than adding things to add to the load on the server

I can't get into a group with other fire/lightning casters at all, i crash out completely. So i have no chance of chasing the endgame instances for the nice new LI drops. Where's the point in me playing then?
I get rubber banded halfway, honestly halfway across a map. How many times will this happen before i log off in frustration and then not bother to log back on again? Not too many more!
I'm not the only one experiencing these things, obviously, the only upside for me is that I am so glad I have a Lifetime subscription because if I didn't and had to pay! well! ...
1: I'd demand my money back on grounds of SSG's failure to provide services paid for (a playable game)
2: find another game to play

fix what's broken, don't add things to break things further!

[Emaldiom]

Removing weapon-swapping did indeed reduce instances of lag during group content, but has not completely removed all lag. We never said it would do so. We're continuing to work on lag, hoping to roll out the changes we introduced to Arkenstone and Landroval to all other servers this week.

Servers are indeed still 32-bit, as Sev said, we're working on 64-bit servers right now.

Can you give us a ETA on the 64-bit servers?
If you think this would help for the server performance you should get this done BEFORE you release new content..

With the current lag and ssg releasing new content you will see ALOT of people just stop playing on release day simply cause your game is unplayable

[Raninia]

Can you give us a ETA on the 64-bit servers?
If you think this would help for the server performance you should get this done BEFORE you release new content..

With the current lag and ssg releasing new content you will see ALOT of people just stop playing on release day simply cause your game is unplayable

Planned for this year still, but it's gonna depend on how the actual work goes.

[Shazzbot]

Many people seem to have come back. Don't waste that opportunity. Do this as soon as possible. I'm not sure SSG realise just how bad it's gotten over the past week. I'm trying to quest in Minas Tirith and it's so frustrating.

[Gwinthilnel]

Many people seem to have come back. Don't waste that opportunity. Do this as soon as possible. I'm not sure SSG realise just how bad it's gotten over the past week. I'm trying to quest in Minas Tirith and it's so frustrating.

+1 signed. This should absolutely be their focus RIGHT NOW before they drop Gundabad and things are even worse.