Question for the Dev Team Concerning Traceries

[Dusalan]

The DPS rating holds most of the power here, you don't require any tracery at all on landscape. They're a bonus, not a requirement.

Problem is for those of us who play landscape and occasionally Instances and Missions. Basically we are nerfed if we don't already have the traceries needed to survive the Instance or Mission. Not too much of a problem for our level capped alts, but I've never been worried about them.

Problem is traceries aren't dropping at the lower levels, so if we want to run "on level" Instances or Missions at the lower levels, we are stuck using DPS sticks. If that's all we have, then crafted and landscape weapons (from what I can see) are as good as the low level LI weapons.

[Joedangod]

Problem is for those of us who play landscape and occasionally Instances and Missions. Basically we are nerfed if we don't already have the traceries needed to survive the Instance or Mission. Not too much of a problem for our level capped alts, but I've never been worried about them.

Missions are landscape content as far as SSG is concerned. They adhere to landscape scaling.

Problem is traceries aren't dropping at the lower levels, so if we want to run "on level" Instances or Missions at the lower levels, we are stuck using DPS sticks. If that's all we have, then crafted and landscape weapons (from what I can see) are as good as the low level LI weapons.

That's not true, traceries are available at lower levels. Instances drop easily farmed stuff, landscape barters offer the boxes, epics give the boxes, there are some repeatable quests that give out the boxes. Traceries are available at every level range.

[Dusalan]

Missions are landscape content as far as SSG is concerned. They adhere to landscape scaling.

Ran L55 to L60 Missions in Annak-Khurfu - some run fine....others...every single MOB in the instance comes running the minute you are loaded into the mission area. I've "died" multiple times trying to survive 15 to 30 trash MOBs and 5 to 10 Elites attacking at the same time. Not fun and definitely not landscape.

That's not true, traceries are available at lower levels. Instances drop easily farmed stuff, landscape barters offer the boxes, epics give the boxes, there are some repeatable quests that give out the boxes. Traceries are available at every level range.

Only low level traceries I've found yet are earned running Library and School. Some of the high level dailies and weeklies do also give area level traceries. Given that drops of infused gems in Moria is still broken, that takes the #1 way of earning low level traceries out of commission.

[DKenny]

This:

According to Raninia reforging is enough to quest through the zones....

and this:

... The DPS rating holds most of the power here, you don't require any tracery at all on landscape. They're a bonus, not a requirement.

succinctly summarize the company view - casuals doing landscape don't need traceries, therefore if that's the only content you're doing you should just accept it if you don't get any traceries from that content.

[Dusalan]

If this is the official company line, why have the new LIs at all for anyone under level cap?

[Joedangod]

Ran L55 to L60 Missions in Annak-Khurfu - some run fine....others...every single MOB in the instance comes running the minute you are loaded into the mission area. I've "died" multiple times trying to survive 15 to 30 trash MOBs and 5 to 10 Elites attacking at the same time. Not fun and definitely not landscape.

...that's a bug.

Only low level traceries I've found yet are earned running Library and School. Some of the high level dailies and weeklies do also give area level traceries. Given that drops of infused gems in Moria is still broken, that takes the #1 way of earning low level traceries out of commission.

Also a bug.

succinctly summarize the company view - casuals doing landscape don't need traceries, therefore if that's the only content you're doing you should just accept it if you don't get any traceries from that content.

Except...you do get traceries. Out of curiosity, have you done any levelling between 45-121 with the new LI system yet?

[Dusalan]

Except...you do get traceries. Out of curiosity, have you done any levelling between 45-121 with the new LI system yet?

Yes....see my post above (quoted below)

I just had my first alt complete the new Walls of Moria intro , complete The Great Dwelling quests, and a couple of the initial Moria Epics.

1) Only traceries were received when getting the initial LIs from Hundi in Echad Dunnan (and completing the associated Walls of Moria trip to Rivendell) and Tulk at Durin's Threshhold.
2) Traceries received were: one Heraldry, two Word of Mastery, and a few yellow enhancement runes
3) No infused garnet drops in The Great Dwelling
4) No traceries or tracery boxes issued/earned/dropped
5) No enhancement runes issued/earned/dropped
6) New LI damage and bonuses are roughly equal to a L25 old LI from Hundi and Tulk (compared against another alt on another server that still had their Hundi and Tulk initial old LIs)
7) New LI's damage and bonuses are only slightly better than landscape items earned (either from quests or from the half orcs) in the Wall of Moria intro (checked alts inventory and compared)
8) New LI's damage roughly equal to a L51 crafted weapon with a crafting critical and is worse than a L54 crafted weapon with no critical (checked my weaponsmith alt's recipes for comparison)

At this point, the LI's appear to be customizable and upgradeable landscape weapons, at least at the lower levels. I don't see any real advantage the new LIs have for low level alts unless they have high level support (i.e. higher level alts sharing AS/AS deconstructable traceries, low level traceries, etc....)

Did a spot check and in Dol Amroth, I can buy a rare L86 tracery box with Dol Amroth Silver Pieces. Doesn't do much for the L45 to L85's. Also checked Moria and Lothlorien and the best I could find was buying Enhancement Runes for Motes in the 21st Hall.

[JERH]

Problem is for those of us who play landscape and occasionally Instances and Missions. Basically we are nerfed if we don't already have the traceries needed to survive the Instance or Mission. Not too much of a problem for our level capped alts, but I've never been worried about them.

Problem is traceries aren't dropping at the lower levels, so if we want to run "on level" Instances or Missions at the lower levels, we are stuck using DPS sticks. If that's all we have, then crafted and landscape weapons (from what I can see) are as good as the low level LI weapons.

First, I agree that the quests/vendors for landscape and questing are woefully behind/missing. I don't like traceries expiring without much more work to satisfy the first sentence.

Just as an example:
Crafted level 85 teal bow 368dps
old LI level 86 bow (@max dmg) 447 dps
New LI 86 bow 551 dps

3 classes (LM, mini, rk) can't use crafted as they don't exist for most levels we are talking about.

Level 80 RK New LI no traceries runs school level 70 T1 3man to loot of 2nd boss (currently always drops 1 purple - apparently sometimes a yellow) in 2 min 36 seconds (with 30.3.2 lags graciously added)
Level 80 RK New LI with mostly yellows, a few purple runs school level 70 T1 3man to loot of 2nd boss in 1 minute 40 seconds.

I don't think 3rd boss drops anything right now when running below level (or below cap or next cap or some rule yet to be delineated successfully).

An AoE class would do better (champ ~1 minute, burglar sneak to 2nd boss could get down as low as 45 seconds). Lower dps/non-AoE classes (aka LM) could take quite a bit longer.

Library is the same just more trash and longer walks. Woe drops a purple on last boss but is a lot more effort.

All of this could change on Wed as I have no idea what the new rules are on tracery drops. Everytime on BR I tried they seemed to change.

If you want to run repeatable content it is there starting around the late 50's. If you don't want to run repeatable content (landscape only or landscape/epic only) it is currently very hard to get resources.

There was one person complaining in another thread about resources who wouldn't even do the epic quests. Just landscape. sigh...


Edit: Enedwaith (60-65) purple traceries available for 30 silver coins from legendary vendor rewards for landscape quests and repeatables. runes also available. Nothing in dunland, E Rohan, W Rohan that I saw.

[Somnambulist]

...that's a bug.... Also a bug....

Except...you do get traceries. Out of curiosity, have you done any levelling between 45-121 with the new LI system yet?

I have. Started playing about a month ago. Went through entire Volume 2 after the update, did most landscape quests in Moria and Mirkwood (skipped the boring repeatable ones that give almost no rewards) and done the solo instances and a few 3-man group instances that I can solo.
The epic quests gave about 4-5 traceries total. Since they are rng, about 3 were useless for me (blue champ traceries, so they probably wouldn't be useful to anyone). From the solo instances I've done not all give LI items (Chamber of shadows gives only gear). Haven't found any working daily quests that give traceries. There were no drops from landscape connected to the new LI, but there were a lot of obsolete ones.
I currently have about two traceries per item at level 71, and about 300-400 script. Think I got about 60 enhancement runes total.

So, mind telling where exactly did you find these quests and locations that give out traceries? "It's a bug" is not a good answer until there's a time in the new system where these quests/drops actually work, or until we have any notion when they will be fixed.
Honestly, the way this new content was released just looks extremely unprofessional. Especially annoyed by the current state of crafting as I've spent quite a bit of time on leveling all the vocations on alts, and also did the whole snails-pace process of rising the crafting guild reputations. They've attracted the new players with the promotional code and then released this new badly conceived update that left a lot of obsolete content in it, which mainly affect these new players they supposedly wanted. Was planning on buying the expansions, but now I'll think I'll wait until I see how they deal with the current situation.

[Dusalan]

I ran through the inventory of my Anor (and formerly Ithil) alts that had started Moria and had completed The Great Dwelling questline BEFORE the LI update

It appears that 2 to 3 Infused Garnet drops in The Great Dwelling was typical pre LI Update. Now it is zero.

Checking other alts that have completed Moria and Lothlorien pre LI Update: at least 30 infused Garnets, Sapphires, and Adamants should drop. 30 is the minimum I found in an alt's inventory. Some alts had 50 or more.

Mundgeirr and Fastarr in Dolven-View will each give a Rare Tracery and Enhancement Rune for completion of their Daily. No infused gems, no Daily.

The lack of infused gem drops, as many have noted, is a major bug.

[Nonde]

What about Rune Keepers Stones, we only have Frost damage, will we be getting Fire/lightning damage stones?

Damage type on runestones only affects melee auto attacks. In the early years of the game some skills were gated by stone type, eg if wanted to access some heal skills had to have a frost runestone equipped, a fire runestone equipped to access a couple of fire skills etc. This became unworkable when LI were introduced as RKs had to develop 3 runestones to maintain access to all their skills and requiring a specific runestone to access skills was dropped when level cap was 65 iirc. They just never got around to removing the 3 types of runestones.

[Joedangod]

So, mind telling where exactly did you find these quests and locations that give out traceries?

Those can be farmed in Enedwaith. Should be able to do 1-2 boxes per day via dailies there.

86-105 can be earned from Fangorn I believe, one of the vendors there offers the boxes in exchange for the daily currency.

I believe there was a vendor for 101 to 115 traceries in MT somewhere, will admit I rushed that level range a bit.

Udun foothold had a vendor for the 106 to 120 traceries.

[Dusalan]

Those can be farmed in Enedwaith. Should be able to do 1-2 boxes per day via dailies there.

86-105 can be earned from Fangorn I believe, one of the vendors there offers the boxes in exchange for the daily currency.

I believe there was a vendor for 101 to 115 traceries in MT somewhere, will admit I rushed that level range a bit.

Udun foothold had a vendor for the 106 to 120 traceries.

My spot check of Minas Tirith Before Battle shows only L86 from the Dailies (Rare L86 Tracery from Narnaith - 20 Smiths' Tokens). Main Quest Rewards for Cistern, South Gate, and North Gate: Rare L86 Enhancement Runes only.

[Fegefeuer]

Those can be farmed in Enedwaith. Should be able to do 1-2 boxes per day via dailies there.

86-105 can be earned from Fangorn I believe, one of the vendors there offers the boxes in exchange for the daily currency.

I believe there was a vendor for 101 to 115 traceries in MT somewhere, will admit I rushed that level range a bit.

Udun foothold had a vendor for the 106 to 120 traceries.

Do you realize that you are basically pointing to farming in old level areas for things that 1 month ago were almost free and you could obtain in a few minutes?

[LagunaD2]

That doesn't really answer the question though. Can you literally go through Moria without any traceries? I understand that you're likely to get something along the way. However, the question was to do with a situation where you outlevel your traceries and haven't replaced them. Your claim was that, in that scenario, it's still OK just to reforge - i.e. dps only, no functional tracery (I'm assuming a disabled tracery is the same as no tracery at all).

The original legacies at Moria levels had virtually negligible bonuses, didn't they?

[Dusalan]

Do you realize that you are basically pointing to farming in old level areas for things that 1 month ago were almost free and you could obtain in a few minutes?

Yes...used to farm for SoE's (in MT one Anfalas and later ?L63? SoE for 3 Smiths' Tokens - now 20 for a Rare L86 Enhancement Rune or Tracery)….now we get to farm Traceries and Enhancement Runes...except in Moria, Lorien, Mirkwood, and a few other areas are still broken, so you cannot get ANYTHING because you cannot run the Dailies!

[Dusalan]

The original legacies at Moria levels had virtually negligible bonuses, didn't they?

The bonuses they had depended on where you wanted to spend your legacy points based on the legacies and legacy tier you had on the LI.

New traceries don't track that well with old legacies. Some do...others...don't

[Joedangod]

My spot check of Minas Tirith Before Battle shows only L86 from the Dailies (Rare L86 Tracery from Narnaith - 20 Smiths' Tokens). Main Quest Rewards for Cistern, South Gate, and North Gate: Rare L86 Enhancement Runes only.

Hm, perhaps it was North Ithilien then.

The original legacies at Moria levels had virtually negligible bonuses, didn't they?

~15% bonuses on average.

Do you realize that you are basically pointing to farming in old level areas for things that 1 month ago were almost free and you could obtain in a few minutes?

Different system, different rules.

[Dusalan]

In Minas Tirith After Battle (maybe in Before Battle), you can get Rare L101 Traceries and Enhancement Runes from the Pelenor Battle Rewards Vendor (need 15 Morgul Crests for either a Tracery or Enhancement Rune).

Earning Morgul Crests is another "fun" grind I'd rather not do.

More and more I see there is strong incentive in the new LI system to just push everyone to end game. L45 to L85 is largely broken. Advancement through L86 thru L120 is quick enough that you will be overleveled for any area by the time you get there, so the traceries and enhancement runes you earn will be largely useless. The only way you will have anything other than a DPS stick is to cash out any and all traceries for AS and buy "on level" yellow traceries. Once you get to L121...or L131, you start the real work of grinding for purple, teal, and maybe gold.

Other option is buying a Stone from the Store and hang out for while.

[Dusalan]

The original legacies at Moria levels had virtually negligible bonuses, didn't they?

~15% bonuses on average.

Depends on what was being modified.

1) Base DPS
2) Skill/Spell Damage/Effect
3) Bleed
4) Debuff
5) Cool Down
6) Number of Targets
7) Range
8) Critical Magnitudes
9) A whole bunch of other stuff

[LadySelene]

They should add tracery boxes (purple?) to mission rewards (complete 15 or 45 missions). There is a legendary box already, I haven't checked what's inside, fearing it still has old items.

[Fegefeuer]

Different system, different rules.

Yeah pretty much this summarizes whole SSG point of view. That's the perfect sentence to justify anything. Lotro gets more P2W? "different system different rules"; Lotro gets more grind? "different system different rules"; Lotro gets broken? "different system different rules".

LI revamp was supposed to help people by reducing the grind and instead we got more grind and what is worse, forced grind. Even in low lvls.

It's pointless, I retire, enjoy your grind.

[Joedangod]

LI revamp was supposed to help people by reducing the grind and instead we got more grind and what is worse, forced grind. Even in low lvls.

There's no forced grind. If you want a full suite of traceries, yes, you need to grind a little. If you just want to clear landscape content? You're fine with the misc stuff you pick up along the way.

[DKenny]

There's no forced grind. If you want a full suite of traceries, yes, you need to grind a little. If you just want to clear landscape content? You're fine with the misc stuff you pick up along the way.

There was no "forced grind" with the imbued LI system either. You could just take the tiers unlocked for free and work with that. At least it was easy to get the legacies you wanted. If you wanted to boost the dps, ok a little bit of grinding at festivals - pretty easily accessible for everyone. The point is, people wanted changes to reduce the grind, and that hasn't happened. You simply claiming that players should accept random trash drops doesn't refute the facts. Previously, if people wanted a fully max imbued LI it required a lot of grinding, mostly for scrolls. Now a fully max new LI is completely out of reach for many players and they have to grind just to get the traceries they want, probably yellow maybe purple if they're lucky.

[DKenny]

Yeah pretty much this summarizes whole SSG point of view. That's the perfect sentence to justify anything. Lotro gets more P2W? "different system different rules"; Lotro gets more grind? "different system different rules"; Lotro gets broken? "different system different rules".

LI revamp was supposed to help people by reducing the grind and instead we got more grind and what is worse, forced grind. Even in low lvls.

It's pointless, I retire, enjoy your grind.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Upon initial introduction, LOTRO f2p was fairly generous. However, as the player population has shrunk they're looking to squeeze more and more. Especially given their system performance issues, one way to address it is fewer players. Getting rid of players who are truly f2p doesn't really cost them anything. So they'll slowly squeeze to do just that, without explicitly doing it.