Evernight is unplayable due to lag... again

[1Asy1]

There was work done during yesterday's maintenance that we are hopeful had a positive impact on game performance on Evernight, and we will be keeping an eye on this thread along with our game metrics throughout the weekend. We know, though, that yesterday's work did not correct everything, so we continue to identify other areas to focus on, and knowing how this weekend goes will also inform that. So, please do let us know how things go on Evernight!

Thanks.

Bugs aside, both of the new instances had periodic freezes for the whole group as we were all on discord at the time. Later on, similarly within Sword Halls, the server would freeze periodically.

Skill lag is still apparent also.

Minor improvement at best.

[Hephburz-2]

There was work done during yesterday's maintenance that we are hopeful had a positive impact on game performance on Evernight, and we will be keeping an eye on this thread along with our game metrics throughout the weekend. We know, though, that yesterday's work did not correct everything, so we continue to identify other areas to focus on, and knowing how this weekend goes will also inform that. So, please do let us know how things go on Evernight!

I have definitely noticed an improvement since the maintenance yesterday, not sure what you did, but it was definitely a step in the right direction. There are still occasional occurrences of lag (especially in relation to missions) but overall it's far better.

Not that there isn't still lag, especially at peak times, it's just better.

[Nubja]

Lanscape seems improved, fewer laggings out than recently but hard to say if thats due to work or fewer plays

Instances same old freezing issues.

Missions are worse than ever. no exaggeration it took me 5 minutes to hand in 1 mission

[afuturestrader]

There was work done during yesterday's maintenance that we are hopeful had a positive impact on game performance on Evernight, and we will be keeping an eye on this thread along with our game metrics throughout the weekend. We know, though, that yesterday's work did not correct everything, so we continue to identify other areas to focus on, and knowing how this weekend goes will also inform that. So, please do let us know how things go on Evernight!

I hope the improvements help on Evernight - however the performance issues are not limited to that server. I play mostly on Arkenstone and performance issues are noticeable, even in solo Missions.

Yesterday I ran a low level (15) character through a quest instance on Gladden with just over 600 on the server. On two occasions both myself and the NPC I was following froze for 5 to 10 seconds. Once unstuck the NPC was far
ahead of me engaged in combat.

At times I freeze in combat only to come out of the freeze needing to scramble out of trouble. Even stable master horses on occasion path incorrectly before eventually self correcting.

The issue is not local to us. In this house we play other AAA MMO's with no problems. We Zoom, do online video schooling etc. The only app we have consistent performance issues with is LOTRO. Hope you can sort them out.

[Harvain]

The root cause is not provisioning enough network and/or computing resources to provide the service we are paying for.

They are also ripping us off on QA, with 6 people doing it in Gundabad compared to 62 for the Mines of Moria expansion.

They are also ripping us off on customer service, with 3+ month ticket response times.



Then get a second one so the load is shared between them. This is how distributed computing and client/server architectures work.



This is a silly analogy because distributed computing is about scaling the resources to match the demand. If you want to use it, then LotRO is a wheelchair missing half its wheels.

Another way to state such is LOTRO is a guy at the mall carrying a lot of Bags & Boxes in that comical he's carrying everything and his girlfriend/wife has one bag.

That is every LOTRO Server, carrying tons of boxes and bags.

Now you can get someone to help (another Server Box) and have the boxes and bags evenly being carried between two people but the amount of bags are still the same amount.

Each person carrying has less weight, can see better, has better movement, awareness and ability to react buuuuuuut the gf/wife is about to enter another store (more Content coming in 2022) and load up both people with more bags and boxes and now you have 2 guys who comically are carrying too much.



LOTRO just is that guy who is carrying those Boxes and Bags ALL the time.

Better and/more Server Boxes only will solve potentially very short term issues with spreading out said load while not helping the long term issues which will eventually pile up again if Optimization is not more heavily invested into.

[Braer]

Another way to state such is LOTRO is a guy at the mall carrying a lot of Bags & Boxes in that comical he's carrying everything and his girlfriend/wife has one bag.

That is every LOTRO Server, carrying tons of boxes and bags.

Now you can get someone to help (another Server Box) and have the boxes and bags evenly being carried between two people but the amount of bags are still the same amount.

Each person carrying has less weight, can see better, has better movement, awareness and ability to react buuuuuuut the gf/wife is about to enter another store (more Content coming in 2022) and load up both people with more bags and boxes and now you have 2 guys who comically are carrying too much.



LOTRO just is that guy who is carrying those Boxes and Bags ALL the time.

Better and/more Server Boxes only will solve potentially very short term issues with spreading out said load while not helping the long term issues which will eventually pile up again if Optimization is not more heavily invested into.

Times have moved on; it's reading barcodes and using the store's free wifi to order from elsewhere now. But modern systems promise the appearance of another dude to take up the new bags seamlessly. We however get an injection of hundreds of new items and paltry means to deal with them, so I'd imagine the same kind of thinking goes into the upgrading of systems to handle new content, none.

[OghranNasty]

I think Evernight has improved a lot, in landscape some occasional lag but not a lot. Moving stuff between bags and storage is still slow, but not banging-head-against-the-table slow anymore.
My kinnies - spread over EU - agree.

[Braer]

I think Evernight has improved a lot, in landscape some occasional lag but not a lot. Moving stuff between bags and storage is still slow, but not banging-head-against-the-table slow anymore.
My kinnies - spread over EU - agree.

My first thoughts were a roll back of all measures taken to improve performance over the last couple of years. Or another fibre optic cable purchase. Only been harvesting nodes today though.

[Harvain]

Times have moved on; it's reading barcodes and using the store's free wifi to order from elsewhere now. But modern systems promise the appearance of another dude to take up the new bags seamlessly. We however get an injection of hundreds of new items and paltry means to deal with them, so I'd imagine the same kind of thinking goes into the upgrading of systems to handle new content, none.

Mostly my example was explaining how LOTRO is, it's like going about your daily life always carrying a bunch of boxes and bags and it'll hinder your performance in a variety of tasks whether they are simple to complex. You can get folks to help but everyone still has to carry those bags around and deal with such for said simple to complex tasks.

It's getting the amount that must be carried down more which will bring more results and will ensure better Server Hardware has extra overhead and can last longer compared to how things are.

Potentially in 1 to 2 years (if not far less) we'd be right back to "we need newer hardware to deal with all the excess baggage" issues which we currently are faced with if there isn't a better New Stuff to Optimization Ratio in 2022.

[Braer]

Mostly my example was explaining how LOTRO is, it's like going about your daily life always carrying a bunch of boxes and bags and it'll hinder your performance in a variety of tasks whether they are simple to complex. You can get folks to help but everyone still has to carry those bags around and deal with such for said simple to complex tasks.

It's getting the amount that must be carried down more which will bring more results and will ensure better Server Hardware has extra overhead and can last longer compared to how things are.

Potentially in 1 to 2 years (if not far less) we'd be right back to "we need newer hardware to deal with all the excess baggage" issues which we currently are faced with if there isn't a better New Stuff to Optimization Ratio in 2022.

You do get that every main server had the capacity to run with much higher populations than we have now. You don't continue to pay running costs for customers who quit. All the invested resources to make the merge possible was to reduce those running costs. And they've been talking about improving performance ever since. Now if your strategy is to fool enough folk into thinking you have their back then you won't have the confidence to actually increase capacity in case you get rumbled and a bunch more leave. Throw in the suits at Daybreak/EG7 demanding their tranche and SSG are stuck between a rock and... ah, us. Even the database/"restructuring" change was an overhead cutting measure that cut into performance. Because we'd get acclimatised to it with further talk of performance measures to try, the last few making things demonstrably worse so we might believe the roll back would be seen as an improvement, who knows? Cord the painting in the attic they abuse to retain a semblance of morale compass, as far as I can see.

[DKenny]

You do get that every main server had the capacity to run with much higher populations than we have now. You don't continue to pay running costs for customers who quit. All the invested resources to make the merge possible was to reduce those running costs. And they've been talking about improving performance ever since. Now if your strategy is to fool enough folk into thinking you have their back then you won't have the confidence to actually increase capacity in case you get rumbled and a bunch more leave. Throw in the suits at Daybreak/EG7 demanding their tranche and SSG are stuck between a rock and... ah, us. Even the database/"restructuring" change was an overhead cutting measure that cut into performance. Because we'd get acclimatised to it with further talk of performance measures to try, the last few making things demonstrably worse so we might believe the roll back would be seen as an improvement, who knows? Cord the painting in the attic they abuse to retain a semblance of morale compass, as far as I can see.

Likely very close to the mark. They have a track record of using player concerns as an excuse to undertake changes to either save them money or make them more money. The server consolidation was supposedly undertaken to address concerns of low server populations - however, the real objective was cost saving. Even the recently introduced LI system was supposedly done to address player concerns about the grind required to obtain a max imbued LI. However, to obtain a max LI under the new system not only requires an equal or greater grind, but requires grinding of much more difficult content (raids, maybe high tier instances) than was ever required to obtain empowerment scrolls or star-lit crystals for the imbued system.

[Mirhaen]

Feedback here please --> https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...st-of-November

I saw this too late sadly to place info they ask for :/ But maybe someone can help.

[Harvain]

You do get that every main server had the capacity to run with much higher populations than we have now. You don't continue to pay running costs for customers who quit. All the invested resources to make the merge possible was to reduce those running costs. And they've been talking about improving performance ever since. Now if your strategy is to fool enough folk into thinking you have their back then you won't have the confidence to actually increase capacity in case you get rumbled and a bunch more leave. Throw in the suits at Daybreak/EG7 demanding their tranche and SSG are stuck between a rock and... ah, us. Even the database/"restructuring" change was an overhead cutting measure that cut into performance. Because we'd get acclimatised to it with further talk of performance measures to try, the last few making things demonstrably worse so we might believe the roll back would be seen as an improvement, who knows? Cord the painting in the attic they abuse to retain a semblance of morale compass, as far as I can see.

Likely very close to the mark. They have a track record of using player concerns as an excuse to undertake changes to either save them money or make them more money. The server consolidation was supposedly undertaken to address concerns of low server populations - however, the real objective was cost saving. Even the recently introduced LI system was supposedly done to address player concerns about the grind required to obtain a max imbued LI. However, to obtain a max LI under the new system not only requires an equal or greater grind, but requires grinding of much more difficult content (raids, maybe high tier instances) than was ever required to obtain empowerment scrolls or star-lit crystals for the imbued system.

Back in the day when LOTRO was still new-ish it didn't have as much Coding, Systems, Data, etc which did allow for more folks to play on a single Server at the time with far weaker Computers and Server Hardware than what is available and used in 2021.

It's just been the "piling of stuff" which has ensured how LOTRO runs for a Server that is on a Server Box or Boxes will see various issues due to how much junk there is with bigger Data Amounts like Evernight showing LOTRO is at it's limits or getting dangerously close.



By the time SSG had bought LOTRO and DDO from Turbine in December 2016 the Server Consolidation had already been announced in January 2015, Server Transfers were under way in 2015 with April 2016 (months ahead of SSG being the Developer) for the Closing Date of all Closed Servers and LOTRO had already seen the Pathes of the Dead as LOTRO's Main Story was heading towards Osgiliath being overrun, the Siege of Minas Tirith and the Battle of the Pelennor Fields while still under Turbine's leadership. SSG becoming the Developer after the March of the King Update had already been released before the official announcement Turbine was no longer the Developer on December 19, 2016.

Turbine was the one who started the Server Consolidation Process, it's just SSG who inherited the task of dealing with the fallout afterward. Now have they handled such as good as they could have from what information we have? No, we don't have the full story but SSG overall kept up with Practices and Habits that had been entrenched for years from Turbine with mostly New Content Heavy Development Cycles in SSG's 5 Year History.

So anything to do with Server Consolidations for Closing Worlds in the form of how it was handled was NOT SSG's business even if various SSG Members might have been from those days with Turbine. How SSG has handled such afterwards is the only thing that can be examined for such which LOTRO has seen 3 (4) Servers added, SSG are still trying to allow folks to Transfer off said Closed Servers and the latest news was such was very close and just how to go about allowing folks to do such was the main goal (hopefully a more staggered Transfer to keep the amount of Data moving lower as problems will likely arise).

Obviously pending when such finally occurs it isn't happening but outside of Optimization for how LOTRO runs and SSG's choices in Server Hardware there is nothing Pre-December 2016 that can be discussed that is SSG's responsibility only what SSG could have done Post-December 2016 that could have led to better results years down the road.



Now for saving money to make more money, what good business doesn't try to spend as little as possible while making the most profit? This isn't something solely done by SSG and far bigger Companies do far worse than SSG has done yet are given many magnitudes more Money on a Yearly Basis than LOTRO has likely seen in it's 14+ Year History.

You don't run a business to break even or just see a little bit of profit on a yearly basis, that is how businesses never grow and eventually fade away or get bought out by some other business.

[Braer]

I'll concede that there a lot more stuff in the game but it's largely compartmentalised. Similarly so with SSG staff mores the pity.

All pats on the back and well done in the inhouse dev servers but zero evidence of any load testing capability. Just Live. Our CM avoids (or finds them beyond his understanding?) all but the very basics of game systems. There's a lot we don't know, if we don't look deeper and just believe the spin ofc.

Is it acceptable to enter a Mission, run to the end boss objective and AE it down and leave the Mission before any mob is visible? Then wait up to 5 minutes in a busy Mission Hall for the tracker to update and hand in the quest? No, we instead have the devs second guessing when the "messages" go poop and have the work-arounds in-place rather than question the tech they've been given to copy these spaces. Making do with what they've been given no questions to be asked?

But they are asking us to supply our diag data and videos of our performance problems with /locs supplied, but to what end? Do they have anyone to look at any of this stuff? What is porting to a /loc going to tell someone on a default systems account with zero baggage and zero chance of recreating the player's experience going to be worth to anyone? When we play lag and poor performance it's more about the differential between our input and how the game reacts so only the most obvious videos are going to convey the problems and if you don't play the game and know the environments how much can be recognised as normal or abnormal?

What they do have is high pop servers they can play on themselves and experience the same issues, yet that seems to be beyond them! Can't even be open about what they have changed and where they expect us to notice a difference for any such test over the last 5 years.

[Arnenna]

There was work done during yesterday's maintenance that we are hopeful had a positive impact on game performance on Evernight, and we will be keeping an eye on this thread along with our game metrics throughout the weekend. We know, though, that yesterday's work did not correct everything, so we continue to identify other areas to focus on, and knowing how this weekend goes will also inform that. So, please do let us know how things go on Evernight!

EN playing much better for me since the patch. Not completely fixed, but better. That said, the rush of new characters going through early Gundabad zones has dropped significantly too, so some minor improvement would have been expected given that. All that needs to happen ow to make Gunda fully playable is fixing Clovengap and the instance bugs.

[Daenirion]

There was work done during yesterday's maintenance that we are hopeful had a positive impact on game performance on Evernight, and we will be keeping an eye on this thread along with our game metrics throughout the weekend. We know, though, that yesterday's work did not correct everything, so we continue to identify other areas to focus on, and knowing how this weekend goes will also inform that. So, please do let us know how things go on Evernight!

Idk what you guys did during the maintenance, but there was a noticable improvement. Moors is still unplayable in some places, but the improvement is encouraging.

[1Asy1]

Server performance dropping off again.

- Skill lag.
- Mobs not attacking or loading morale bars.
- Freezes - instance and landscape.

You are on [EN] Evernight server 33 at r2 lx1968 ly1856 i19 cInside ox-63.80 oy-89.06 oz-460.95 h56.2. Game timestamp 456667890.221.

Character - Lob
Time - 21:11 GMT

[Lofnheid]

On my old computer, it used to lag all the time, especially during festivals. Since I got my new computer, there's been no lag that I can see, and rubber banding is reduced to almost none.

[HeliStorm]

On my old computer, it used to lag all the time, especially during festivals. Since I got my new computer, there's been no lag that I can see, and rubber banding is reduced to almost none.

So it maybe be the pc right. Nah, people are sitting with high- end pc for 3-4k and still lag. One friend have 1000/1000 mbit fiber.

[Nubja]

big lags again tonight, all zones.

Character just got logged out while lagging around and now whenever i try and log that character i get "there has been an error".



: DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Thalian39]

I don't play on Evernight, but on Gladden. However, over the last 6 months lag has gotten increasingly worse.

Situations where lag ALWAYS occurs:

1) Teleporting to new area (doesn't matter if its busy or you are the only one there), hopping on horse, and you GLIDE to your destination for up to 30 seconds, while your horse cosmetics aren't loaded but have the generic blond sorrel design, nor is anything spawned around you. Especially bad in neighborhoods (Looking at you Rohan). Can take several MINUTES for things to load sometimes.

2) Angmar. People on Gladden have jokingly called it "Lagmar". It is absolutely terrible. Whatever computers/servers whatever is controlling it, it is failing. Sometimes the ground will not even load for SEVERAL MINUTES, besides mobs, npc's, etc. Many times you will find when the lag has caught up that you are either dead or in combat.

3) Riding a quick horse (not a stable route), directly in one direction, will make you "pass" the server's ability to create your environment and spawn terrain, npc's, mobs ahead of you. Sometimes I will ride past and a node will spawn BEHIND me that I already went thru, and I'll have to double-back for it. Or if its a quest giver or mob, whatever.

4) Sound Lag. For no reason whatsoever, lag will happen anywhere and if you say, talk to an NPC, kill a mob, and travel, there will be SILENCE, until the server catches up and you hear the NPC greeting, battle, and gallop sounds ALL AT ONCE. This one is new to me.

I was thinking of buying a new house in Erebor when it comes out but unless I see at least a LITTLE improvement in these areas, I dunno.

Thalian from Gladden

PS. No, its not my computer/internet connection. 500mb/down and 24 gigs ram and quad core i5 3.x mhz cpu

[Braer]

12:41 Eastern and no chat no access to vault/shared is Evernight in it's death throws?

General Error 0x0000000E

[Nostro44]

Tonight on Evernight I gave up trying to open my vault - both shared storage and char vault were taking minutes to open that I gave up.

Even several hours later when I could finally see what was in my vault it takes over a minute to put anything in or take anything out.

[Braer]

Party time in Net Opps?

Anyone familiar with The Fast Show? "Today, I have been mostly allocating resources to instances."

[Esteledain_Eldar]

Same problems as described above. General error in chat and when trying to move things to and from storage. Several minutes wait time to hand in quests. Gliding around on the goat. Available quests not showing up at all. I logged off in frustration. You gotta do something SSG, even a playerbase as loyal as this won't stick around forever...