How to squish content

[spaltung]

afaik there are expansions way more popular than others, for example HD wasn't a very successful expansion in many ways (by the general opinion at least) compared to Mines of Moria (i'm sure that there are people that do not think that way and that's what this thread it's about).

also, at this point there seems to be a large focus on endgame and stacking old content on top of old content, which strips the whole Massive-Multiplayer Online experience from the early-game & mid-game, which is a big portion of the game (taking in consideration it takes about 500+ hours of gameplay to get to endgame for the average player).

this seems to push the game more towards an Offine & Semi-Online RPG experience (with the exception of World Chat & Auction House) in which you're practically by yourself for months leveling through empty areas and dungeons and this offline/semi-online experience increases with every old expansion that gets stacked upon mid-game content (more empty areas/quests/dungeons).

i guess there's an audience that do not have any problem with the early-game & mid-game content being an online experience mainly for world chat & auction house (or kinships), but virtually empty on the open-world & instance side (dungeons and areas that do not belong to endgame). but that portion of the playerbase it is not the main concern in this thread, but the playerbase that enjoys more an MMO experience rather than semi-online RPG/offline RPG experience, because, as i've mentioned previously, getting to endgame for the first time takes about 500+ hours of empty content (which translates into 4+ months for the average player of not seeing other players but on World Chat, or maybe one player once every few days/weeks).



so, here's the thing.

if players could choose between fixated paths of content instead of being pushed to play 500+ hours of empty zones plus 48 new hours of empty zones for every expansion that becomes outdated and it's placed back on mid-game, the game would be less of an offline RPG experience and more massive-multiplayer online populated experience for popular leveling zones (such as Moria) and also for 3man/6man instances that virtually no one is doing because the gap between level for players increases with each expansion (on Gledden you can only see sometimes only 1 person in the spectrum from 75 to 85 online in the whole server doing Rohan, or 2 persons doing Helm's Deep, one is lv 88 and the other is lv 94).

fixing this content gap will obviously bring more players interested in the game and an MMO experience over an Offline RPG experience.

this squish could take place by giving players fixated paths to go through content, and then selling them as the game experience.

this is just an example of how that could be, not a full representation:

1-10 tutorial/intro (Ered Luin / Shire / Archet / Bree Land)

11-30 standard f2p SoA (Bree Land / Lone Lands / Trollshaws / Misty Mountains / Angmar)
11-30 VIP SoA (North Downs / Evendim / Forochel / Eregion / Angle of Mitheithel)

A Path represents Low mid-game

31-50 A1 Path: Moria / Lothlorien / Southern Mirkwood (free access with VIP)
31-50 A2 Path: Enedwaith / Dunland / Gap of Rohan
31-50 A3 Path: East Rohan (RoR) / West Rohan (HD)
31-50 A4 Path: Base Gondor (Western gondor, Central gondor, Eastern gondor, Old Anórien, Far Anórien, Anórien After-Battle)

then you can sell all "A" Paths as a whole at the web store + a lv 30 free boost (to encourage people creating alts or trying/buying other classes/races). or each "A" path as a separated single path.

B Path represents High mid-game

51-70 B1 Path: North Itilien / The Wastes / Mordor
51-70 B2 Path: Eryn Lasgalen & Dale lands / The Dwarf-holds
51-70 B3 Path: Vales of Anduin / Mordor Besieged & The Morgul Vale / Wells of Langflood
51-70 B4 Path: Elderslade / Azanulbizar / Gundabad

then you sell "B" paths as a whole at the web store + a lv 30 free boost. or each "B" path as a separated single path.

Pre-Endgame

71-80 No Path: Only second last expansion released (so it's still relevant for purchases, as SSG usually does by trying to capitalize on 2nd last expansions)

Endgame

80-90 No Path: Only last expansion released


so, if players purchase full "A" paths & full "B" paths for separated, they get 1 + 1 (2) lv 30 boosts.

and giving players a chance to purchase all A + B paths at once with a discount with something juicy like the 2 previous lv 30 boosts + 1 free VIP month included (which then, they will use for xp boosts while leveling).

or just a more basic (and more cheap) customizable option to purchase just 1 A path (31 to 50) + 1 B path (51 to 70) at once (whatever path A + path B a buyer chooses) to complete one 30 to 70 leveling pathway for a cheaper price than the other 30 to 70 options (full A or full B, or full A+B).

also, giving VIP players 1 free 30 to 50 pathway while being VIP (let's say, Moria to Mirkwood, which might be the most popular) makes VIP more appealing and worth to try before purchasing the whole game.



that's still a ton of content to go through & gives the game a way more populated, alt-friendly, casual-friendly experience that appeals more to a massive multiplayer online audience, over an individual (you've to find a kinship to get help, instead of finding it on the open world), non-alt-friendly, non-casual friendly, semi-online/offline experience (it takes 4+ months of average gameplay and 500 hours of empty zones/dungeons to start playing with other people in teams, unless you find the right kinship).

this way, players who want a more MMO experience and are on the casual/pug side, will choose paths that are more populated (for example Moria), meanwhile, players that want more an Offline experience could choose other paths.

and completitionist/alt-holics will just be encouraged to get the whole game to play all A to B paths with multiple alts.

[Nekroman1]

I am strictly against any form of squish - the reason is simple - it leads to a situation where the people have different level experiences. I personally expect a long level experience and that the reason why I play the game. I of course do not like every Zone and so i like that you can avoid them and level with Missions in Rivendell (or elsewhere). For those hwo do not like leveling can buy the Valar.

The squish in WoW ruined the game and I would stop playing LotRO if we have a squish here too.

[DavidmeetHal]

No thank you. I am against any form of squish. I love leveling, and I love the fact that the game world is so huge that I can take different alts through different areas. Maybe other people want to get to endgame, but I love the process and the journey.

[Boraxxe]

I think not.
I would not like to see the game changed that way.

[Rylnconn]

Yeah bad idea , real bad .. In a open world concept as lotro is with unlimited ways to play it , I cannot comprehend anyone even remotely contemplating an idea such as this .
Again you toss out half baked myopic gruel on the forums .
Like many here we don't understand why you are here , obviously you never play the game , yet you try and pound it into some fantasy utopia of your own making .
You constantly compare lotro to other games online .
Go back to those other games then and quit spamming .

[Thurinuor]

I don't want a level squish. I like that Lotro is such a huge game. Stat squish? Maybe. But no level squish please.

[spaltung]

Yeah bad idea , real bad .. In a open world concept as lotro is with unlimited ways to play it , I cannot comprehend anyone even remotely contemplating an idea such as this .
Again you toss out half baked myopic gruel on the forums .
Like many here we don't understand why you are here , obviously you never play the game , yet you try and pound it into some fantasy utopia of your own making .
You constantly compare lotro to other games online .
Go back to those other games then and quit spamming .

you seem to be used to playing lotro as an atemporal game without genre.

also there's a topic with 15 pages going on right now about level squishing.

fyi here is a definition of MMORPG (which you seem to be clueless about)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass...e-playing_game

[Once_of_Bree]

you seem to be used to playing lotro as an atemporal game without genre.

also there's a topic with 15 pages going on right now about level squishing.

fyi here is a definition of MMORPG (which you seem to be clueless about)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass...e-playing_game

To be fair your numerous posts show you don't want to play LOTRO at all but an entirely different game and seem to be clueless about this being the root cause of all your problems with the game.

[shino047]

Everyone who complaining here against level squish probably never even reached the cap because it takes so f***ing long. Level squish is 100% needed, not everyone is a miserable old man like you who enjoys slugging through hundreds of levels all alone. How can it be so hard to understand they cant just keep adding more and more levels until infinity its getting ridiculous. And even with lvl squish you can still play all the old content if you want. Endgame is where the game really starts, and currently it takes way too long to reach that.

[DavidmeetHal]

you seem to be used to playing lotro as an atemporal game without genre.

also there's a topic with 15 pages going on right now about level squishing.

fyi here is a definition of MMORPG (which you seem to be clueless about)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass...e-playing_game

Oh ok, if you're gonna go that route and call people clueless.

This is copied and pasted from that link.

"and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game."

Keyword words: "Persistent world". Not "forced together in an instance".

MMORPG means Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. That's exactly what LOTRO is. No where is it mandatory for everyone to do everything together.


You are the one that is clueless. Seriously, you picked the wrong link to make a point.

[DavidmeetHal]

Endgame is where the game really starts, and currently it takes way too long to reach that.

According to you maybe. There's probably a lot of people like me that play for the lore, the cosmetics, scenery, story lines, decorating houses, questing, leveling and so on. Not everyone is obsessed with the very end.

[Nekroman1]

Everyone who complaining here against level squish probably never even reached the cap because it takes so f***ing long.

You are wrong - I am now leveling my 3rd Char to Level 140.

And again - WoW had a Level Squish - it costs tons of ressources and did not lead to a broader player base. Its an economic disaster.

[WorrBinpike]

Although i also dont like the crazy high HPs the characters and mobs have at the moment, under no circumstances i want to have crashed my level experienced. They already crashed my experience by doing that new LI-System. I loved it at my alts to craft Level 65/75/85 to do new LIs. Now its gone.

So, a stat quish....ok.....but not to level.

[Derthir]

I don't think a level squish is needed. Your level number doesn't really matter that much. Stats could certainly use squishing.

Endgame is where the game really starts, and currently it takes way too long to reach that.

This is what needs to change. You never find PUGs running instances below the level cap, so people feel like they have to rush to level cap in order to participate in group content. This is not only a high barrier for entry, but it leaves dozens of 3, 6, and 12 man instances to waste. This can be fixed if all players in the group are scaled to the level cap for all scaling instances, missions, and skirmishes. Upon completion, all players should get level-appropriate rewards. The level scaling mechanism already exists for Epic Battles, and it does a decent job. It just needs a bit more attention to make it suitable.

[Arnenna]

Everyone who complaining here against level squish probably never even reached the cap because it takes so f***ing long. Level squish is 100% needed, not everyone is a miserable old man like you who enjoys slugging through hundreds of levels all alone. How can it be so hard to understand they cant just keep adding more and more levels until infinity its getting ridiculous. And even with lvl squish you can still play all the old content if you want. Endgame is where the game really starts, and currently it takes way too long to reach that.

Add to that, any player that wants to roll a character and jump straight to end game can do it in game, any time they wish. Buy a Valar, that is exactly what they are for.

Just a FIY, I've levelled 14 characters to the relevant level cap for 8 years.. My current character status is 6 at 140 and 9 on their way to it from 130, and some more at lower levels, and yes, I play end game too. Stop trying to speak for everyone who enjoys end game please, because not all of them want you to.

The game has its percentage of players that live for end game, and it also has a percentage of players that never go near it and play for the stories and everything that you consider boring and lengthy. I remember what happened in the brief "No more Raids" era, and that's exactly how it will go if they go the other way, only on a much larger percentage of players.

[Uroc]

Add to that, any player that wants to roll a character and jump straight to end game can do it in game, any time they wish. Buy a Valar, that is exactly what they are for.

I agree that players could use Valars, but they are really expensive. Especially if you already bought content and buy vip. Lotro indeed have slow path in catching up with other players if someone decide to return to game or just return and try end game again.

We can see how lotro is struggling to keep players on end game, I am sure that part of catching up also have something to do with it.

I dont mean we need level squish but we do need better way for players to catch up faster with everybody else once when they come to end game.

I have hunter lvl 108, everytime when I login into that character I see how many virtues and stuff that character need gather to be ready for group game, so I just craft there and wait for better days.

[DKenny]

I agree that players could use Valars, but they are really expensive. Especially if you already bought content and buy vip. Lotro indeed have slow path in catching up with other players if someone decide to return to game or just return and try end game again.

We can see how lotro is struggling to keep players on end game, I am sure that part of catching up also have something to do with it.

I dont mean we need level squish but we do need better way for players to catch up faster with everybody else once when they come to end game.

I have hunter lvl 108, everytime when I login into that character I see how many virtues and stuff that character need gather to be ready for group game, so I just craft there and wait for better days.

You highlight the reason SSG will not do any sort of "level squish" of content. There is currently a store method available. Why would they ever undertake a substantial effort to effectively provide an alternative to the store, when such an effort would provide no direct means for gaining revenue?

[DKenny]

Beyond whether one is, in theory, for or against a "level squish", I have a practical concern. It would require a substantial effort, and there would in practice be a lot of problem with it if they actually tried to implement it. I agree with a previous post, better to look at a stat squish. Especially since Mordor, there has been an acceleration of stat bloat. I think it would be much easier to rein in stats than "squish" content.

[hillard1959]

Honestly? I think we're at least 2 or 3 years out from some sort of stat rework in order to bring stat bloat under control. Mind you, that's rework, not a squish.

A squish has such broad implications for the game that the amount of work that would need to go into it would impact every aspect of the game. Everything would have to be reworked in order to not make the overall experience suffer. Even those systems that aren't seeing support right now, such as skirmishes and Big Battles. It would probably take them a year's worth of work in order to make that happen. And, frankly, right now there's much more pressing issues that simply must be addressed before the topic of any kind of squish should even be broached.

[elvenes]

there will be a point where numbers will be too much and the engine can't calculate fast enough, causing all sorts of errors (overflow). There will be a point where the devs will have to do something to fix it, and not just a stat squish, but a curbing of the curve across the board, level included. Do you really want to see a level 200 with light classes having 10 million morale, landscape mobs with 50 mil and instance bosses with 100 billion? because with the new raid we are already reaching that idiocy. To not speak about creating an alt and going to lvl 1 to 200, something will have to be done, and when that time comes, they will do it whether you like it or not.

Many seem to mistake that squish means cutting content. It doesn't, it simply means redimensioning things

edit: hillard beat me to it, tho I'd say a stat rework alone is too little. reduce the numbers all over should be the way to go

[hillard1959]

there will be a point where numbers will be too much and the engine can't calculate fast enough, causing all sorts of errors (overflow). There will be a point where the devs will have to do something to fix it, and not just a stat squish, but a curbing of the curve across the board, level included. Do you really want to see a level 200 with light classes having 10 million morale, landscape mobs with 50 mil and instance bosses with 100 billion? because with the new raid we are already reaching that idiocy. To not speak about creating an alt and going to lvl 1 to 200, something will have to be done, and when that time comes, they will do it whether you like it or not.

Many seem to mistake that squish means cutting content. It doesn't, it simply means redimensioning things

edit: hillard beat me to it, tho I'd say a stat rework alone is too little. reduce the numbers all over should be the way to go

The reason I say a rework is that there needs to be more more work done to stats than simply diminishing the bloat. They also need to clean up the character sheet UI to make it easier to build your character as you progress. It doesn't have to be a big thing. But having something like, say, a percentage out beside the stats would make them more accessible to your average player than this big block of numbers that you need a spreadsheet and a calculator to figure out exactly what you have and what you need to do to reach your goals. The UI for stats is rather draconian at this point. A rework would present an opportunity to change that.

[Once_of_Bree]

Everyone who complaining here against level squish probably never even reached the cap because it takes so f***ing long.

Hmm funny I'm sure I got my 4th alt to 140 over the weekend, maybe I was just imagining it.

[lesaiglesnoirgd]

there was the squish on wow, big daubasse.
a squish, you're shooting the game.
or so ok. But you offer a Vanilla server so 2007 to others / many will refuse such a thing.
stop talking about squish, there won't be any and so much the better!

[Fadil]

that's still a ton of content to go through & gives the game a way more populated, alt-friendly, casual-friendly experience that appeals more to a massive multiplayer online audience, over an individual (you've to find a kinship to get help, instead of finding it on the open world), non-alt-friendly, non-casual friendly, semi-online/offline experience (it takes 4+ months of average gameplay and 500 hours of empty zones/dungeons to start playing with other people in teams, unless you find the right kinship).

This is simply not true.
It depends on which server you play (and low population servers seem to be your problem).
I am leveling an alt atm and constantly see calls for instances, ON level, in /LFF and /World.

The strenght of this game is exactly the huge gameworld, and for every endgamer there are hundreds if not thousands of players happily leveling their first , second or tenth for all I care, character through the game.

A level squish is the worst idea I've ever read on these forums. If you feel leveling takes too long: buy a valar.
And while you're at it: stop trying to push your playstyle on other players.

[BigLotroFan]

Get a valar and skip to end game if you don’t enjoy the leveling process. The solution to your problems already exists.