Filling the Gaps: following in the footsteps of the Wildwood and the Angle

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

I posted this in the Producer’s Letter thread, but it feels relevant here too.

Has anyone looked closely at the background of the new class/race screenshot in the Producer’s Letter?

This looks to me like our first screenshot of the ‘Royal Road’ region - not recognisable as anywhere else currently in the game, sweeping hills using their new tech, and a Lonelands colour pallet…

[TesalionLortus]

a level 140 zone next to a level 14-20 zone would mean getting 1-shot if you make a wrong step
be level 50-60 as a Moria alternative. That way, if you accidentally bumped into "the red zone" from Bree-land, you'd still have more of a fighting chance to escape back into "Safe Territory,"

Oh because that makes a huge difference for lvl 10+ something peeps They would still be one-shot either way So it's just your preference talking ; ) Whatever the case, don't put distance damaging mobs at borders and also put them a bit further from the border, not at the border, and otherwise don't bother with it, just make the landscape more open and get rid of artificial barriers please! It won't be a problem, players will learn to live with it, just like nobody complains about lvl 50 Dourhands and Half-orcs. Simple.

Also, exploring "Sharkey's" - rise - of influence in the South Farthing and in the Swanfleet / trading between the regions I think would be a bit more interesting; by the time Frodo returns to the Shire, it's the "wind-down," "Sharkey" vastly reduced in power and really just at the downward spiral to rock-bottom.

With the Royal Road, not really - there would be literally no difference between Sharkey pre-defeat and after defeat. If anything, a lead-up to Scouring is "Sharkey" at its prime (as far as local lowlifes are concerned, I mean, he leads them in person! rather than stay behind as this enigmatic figure and some of his lieutenants/spy masters from Isengard are send to lead the local effort). It would be interesting to explore whether most of the guys knew he was the wizard Saruman from Isangard, maybe the half-orcs, but many men perhaps not? And LOTRO knows how to tell a multilayered story (show the current events unfold but also delve into the past of the region and show flashbacks etc) so we're fully covered, even if it's lvl 140

TBH, if I had to choose between Frodo's return to the Shire / pre-Scouring stuff and . . . the biggest battle Sauron ever fought in Eriador and actually legitimately - lost - even with the One Ring on his finger? Never mind the whole tragedy of "Antheron" tricking the High Elves and Celebrimbor's downfall. I'll gladly take the latter; far more interesting than a pack of ruffians and half-Orcs trailing a broken ex-Wizard with a crawling Wormtongue behind him, thank you very much

Both would be great to see and no one said they can't do both. That we're not hearing anything about this new project yet and there was nothing for cap players announced, everything kept in secret even though players are already frustrated... What if it's an expansion, which would make sense they can't reveal anything yet since they would need a proper announcement for it to create hype, and if it's an expansion it needs to be attractive too, so not this random "well, oh, so we release the Royal Road because it bothered us the road wasn't complete, you can explore some old Eriador stuff, also Frodo coming home (which should be free content/regular update to begin with, being an epic, not a selling point of this grand expansion)". So what's if it's sort of like Minas Morgul? Not just the Royal Road but also the retelling of the Forging and the War (Amazon series wink wink). And both would be thematically great because if they happen together - which takes Frodo back home, to where it all begun - we're also taken kinda home in the retelling - not just because Royal Road areas/being in Eriador again - but because guess who played a role during the Forging era? Laerdan, Narmeleth... so we could also go back to the very beginning of what made LOTRO be LOTRO and explore how this fall-into-villainy/corruption unfolded. And what role Narmeleth played in that war, possibly. Because she must have played some role, right? Before the entire 'Champion of Angmar' became a thing, and LOTRO is no Amazon here with time-compressions and whatnot : P Also, with Amazon bringing their fallen elf Adar into the picture who is on the lookout for some medallion of power, it would hilarious to have LOTRO come out and say 'hey, we did it first and better (probably), remember? plagiarism much?' xD

I posted this in the Producer’s Letter thread, but it feels relevant here too.

Has anyone looked closely at the background of the new class/race screenshot in the Producer’s Letter?

This looks to me like our first screenshot of the ‘Royal Road’ region - not recognisable as anywhere else currently in the game, sweeping hills using their new tech, and a Lonelands colour pallet…

You might be right... don't recognize it either... especially that water source, seems off and unlike anything I can think of. But if that's true, it makes me happy - because this means we ARE actually getting the extension of the Lonelands rather than just areas adjacent to road with the entire Southern reaches of Lonelands treated as "inaccessible landmass, it's just some mountains here." I've been to the Dourhand-infested fortress recently that's located at the bottom of the map - and the entire layout of the fortress looks like there should have been an exit on the other side too, to the South, architecturally speaking, but obviously there isn't due to gameplay reasons. Perhaps now they'll add one? And other connections from mountainous nooks and crannies, not just the Haorwell one through the Angle.

[Phantion]

Oh because that makes a huge difference for lvl 10+ something peeps They would still be one-shot either way So it's just your preference talking ; ) Whatever the case, don't put distance damaging mobs at borders and also put them a bit further from the border, not at the border, and otherwise don't bother with it, just make the landscape more open and get rid of artificial barriers please! It won't be a problem, players will learn to live with it, just like nobody complains about lvl 50 Dourhands and Half-orcs. Simple.

Fair enough: it's totally my preference that the new area logically be an alternative leveling path for Moria that could get a player from level 50 - 60 or even to 65 - to logically rejoin the Grey Company in Eregion and just keep going into Enedwaith proper.

With the Royal Road, not really - there would be literally no difference between Sharkey pre-defeat and after defeat. If anything, a lead-up to Scouring is "Sharkey" at its prime (as far as local lowlifes are concerned, I mean, he leads them in person! rather than stay behind as this enigmatic figure and some of his lieutenants/spy masters from Isengard are send to lead the local effort). It would be interesting to explore whether most of the guys knew he was the wizard Saruman from Isangard, maybe the half-orcs, but many men perhaps not? And LOTRO knows how to tell a multilayered story (show the current events unfold but also delve into the past of the region and show flashbacks etc) so we're fully covered, even if it's lvl 140

Let's agree to disagree on this; I have a very different interpretation. All "Sharkey" has is maybe about 60-100 ruffians, nothing remotely resembling the vastness of his forces that attacked the Fords and Helm's Deep, and his staff is broken, literally and quasi-spiritually, and at most, all he has left is his "ability" to trick gullible people with persuasion. He's lost his supernatural powers; he's just a thug leading them in-person who has lost his home and just wants to "hurt" those he deems responsible - the Hobbits (*rather than his own wicked self for betraying the West, imprisoning Gandalf, unjustly assailing Rohan, etc.).

To my mind, the far more interesting tale is uncovering precisely how "Sharkey" tricked the Sackville-Bagginses in the first place, a very significant gap in the lore. Also, that all that pipeweed in Isengard suggests there was a major schema, a fast network perhaps through trade, coercion, or both, and precisely why "Sharkey" was even bothering himself with all this Shire stuff (*and had just that 1 lone southern dude in Bree spying on Frodo for him instead of having all his ruffians trying to catch Frodo before the Nazgul could), etc.

That's more interesting to me; not the shamed, broken villain just taking a mean walk along the Royal Road to the Shire to give some extra hurt to Frodo and company. To me, all the intrigue involving the South Farthing and the Royal Road is precisely what Saruman was up to with the Shire in the first place, the lines between the lines, not only what the lore and Tolkien tells us outright and him trying to figure-out Gandalf's interest in the place but - why - that was so and - how - he tricked those people.

For example, did he himself sneak up there in person and actually present himself to Lotho the way Gandalf did with Bilbo and Frodo? Is there a very sad, tragic tale of how Saruman tricked these Hobbits into thinking he was a good guy? What exactly - did - happen in the South Farthing and along the Royal Road between those places and Dunland? You see, Yondershire and the extent Shire areas did a good job at "starting to set-up"
this stuff from the perspective of Hobbits that weren't directly involved - like Fredregar Bolger and the Yonder-Hobbits. What where did this start? How did it creep out?

It's just my preference, and I respect yours also, and I agree having a long gap in level-cap content isn't a good thing. I'm just saying I'd prefer the next level-cap area to make some more geographic sense after Gundabad- perhaps Middle Mirkwood or something along those lines- and for the Eriador stuff to be more of a "lead-up" toward Rise of Isengard and what happens there. *Shrugs shoulders.* Plus, you could have things there that aren't possible after the Ents stomp Isengard: How about actual Uruk-hai villains in Eriador? Did Saruman have a hidden plot to nab Frodo up there but the Nazgul beat him to it (*as hinted by those White Hand allied Orcs and Goblins in the Lone-lands?)? Did he actually turn Tharbad into his proxy-northern-base?

You see, I guess what I'm trying to say here is that then the "pay-off" for the Scouring would be much higher in the story if they actually explored this stuff before Gandalf and the Ents "put Saruman out of business," sort to speak. There's a lot more to the tale here, and I wouldn't want them to rush it. When we have Frodo returning to the Shire, Lotho is about to suffer a terrible fate at "Sharkey's" orders, and so, it's "too little, too late" by that point.

There's even an opportunity to have our player-character "try to talk Lotho out of getting involved with stuff that is beyond his pay-grade," and for Lotho to even trick us and make our efforts look successful on the way to the likes of Enedwaith and Dunland in the leveling, just as he tricks Halros (*depending on your decision- my preferred one is usually "Halros Should Go") into thinking all is well in the Shire.

Both would be great to see and no one said they can't do both. That we're not hearing anything about this new project yet and there was nothing for cap players announced, everything kept in secret even though players are already frustrated... What if it's an expansion, which would make sense they can't reveal anything yet since they would need a proper announcement for it to create hype, and if it's an expansion it needs to be attractive too, so not this random "well, oh, so we release the Royal Road because it bothered us the road wasn't complete, you can explore some old Eriador stuff, also Frodo coming home (which should be free content/regular update to begin with, being an epic, not a selling point of this grand expansion)". So what's if it's sort of like Minas Morgul? Not just the Royal Road but also the retelling of the Forging and the War (Amazon series wink wink). And both would be thematically great because if they happen together - which takes Frodo back home, to where it all begun - we're also taken kinda home in the retelling - not just because Royal Road areas/being in Eriador again - but because guess who played a role during the Forging era? Laerdan, Narmeleth... so we could also go back to the very beginning of what made LOTRO be LOTRO and explore how this fall-into-villainy/corruption unfolded. And what role Narmeleth played in that war, possibly. Because she must have played some role, right? Before the entire 'Champion of Angmar' became a thing, and LOTRO is no Amazon here with time-compressions and whatnot : P Also, with Amazon bringing their fallen elf Adar into the picture who is on the lookout for some medallion of power, it would hilarious to have LOTRO come out and say 'hey, we did it first and better (probably), remember? plagiarism much?' xD

Hehe I would say though that we have to remember that Frodo goes straight up to Rivendell and actually stays there for a bit. So, a lot would depend on the timing of what happens when. They'll decide what they will I guess

You might be right... don't recognize it either... especially that water source, seems off and unlike anything I can think of. But if that's true, it makes me happy - because this means we ARE actually getting the extension of the Lonelands rather than just areas adjacent to road with the entire Southern reaches of Lonelands treated as "inaccessible landmass, it's just some mountains here." I've been to the Dourhand-infested fortress recently that's located at the bottom of the map - and the entire layout of the fortress looks like there should have been an exit on the other side too, to the South, architecturally speaking, but obviously there isn't due to gameplay reasons. Perhaps now they'll add one? And other connections from mountainous nooks and crannies, not just the Haorwell one through the Angle.

.

I posted this in the Producer’s Letter thread, but it feels relevant here too.

Has anyone looked closely at the background of the new class/race screenshot in the Producer’s Letter?

This looks to me like our first screenshot of the ‘Royal Road’ region - not recognisable as anywhere else currently in the game, sweeping hills using their new tech, and a Lonelands colour pallet…

To these, let me say this. I took a very close look at the screenshot. It's the same precise kind of stone as in Elderslade as well as with the flora and fauna. BUT- when I went to Elderslade, no geography corresponded at all with the terrain. It's also the same kind of stone they tend to use in Ered Luin and the North Ithilien side of Mordor's mountains.

I think . . . it could be an extension of the Lone-Lands, but some of the terrain changes, as seen in this thread, hint at more forested terrain south of the Lone-Lands. This makes me wonder: is this part of the southwestern borders of the new zone? Time will tell. But I definitely agree I think it's new - unless there's some small pond in Elderslade somewhere I neglected

Cheers!

[TesalionLortus]

the far more interesting tale is uncovering precisely how "Sharkey" tricked the Sackville-Bagginses in the first place, a very significant gap in the lore. Also, that all that pipeweed in Isengard suggests there was a major schema, a fast network perhaps through trade, coercion, or both, and precisely why "Sharkey" was even bothering himself with all this Shire stuff (*and had just that 1 lone southern dude in Bree spying on Frodo for him instead of having all his ruffians trying to catch Frodo before the Nazgul could), etc.

That's more interesting to me; not the shamed, broken villain just taking a mean walk along the Royal Road to the Shire to give some extra hurt to Frodo and company. To me, all the intrigue involving the South Farthing and the Royal Road is precisely what Saruman was up to with the Shire in the first place, the lines between the lines, not only what the lore and Tolkien tells us outright and him trying to figure-out Gandalf's interest in the place but - why - that was so and - how - he tricked those people.

Sure, but we can explore all of that in any place on the timeline, really. If you go to "Royal Road" it wouldn't really be Saruman you run into, unless it's a flashback. Pre-defeat or not, he has no business actively going around the place to command some ruffians, he's got stuff to take care of home (or straight in Shire, so that would be a quick walk and not much of scheming in the area). As for Lotho, it wouldn't be a part of this zone (most likely) so when they finally decide to add it this might be done Yondershire-style and on lower level, so we might still get into some 'Lotho backstory' there. But anything too straightforward wouldn't work though, the thing with Halros was brilliantly framed and even then, all the stuff from Yondershire, even with a few 'hired' lowlifes involved, didn't immediately scream "I gonna take over the place! muhahaha." It has that odd Shire silliness around it with Lotho being a worrisome villainous figure (for a hobbit) but then again also very much a hobbit. Let's assume you play this and have no idea about the book - you wouldn't expect the total takeover. Something less disastrous at best, use some mercenaries to enforce your silly will because you're stubborn and hobbitsy and you don't like something. Or come up with some scheme to successfully - but legally - take over the Bag End, so it's finally theirs. Stuff like that... Would be nice if the content doesn't provide you with any direct indication of just how big ambitions he has or that he's already involved with a literal army of spies and half-orcs.

For example, did he himself sneak up there in person and actually present himself to Lotho the way Gandalf did with Bilbo and Frodo? Is there a very sad, tragic tale of how Saruman tricked these Hobbits into thinking he was a good guy? What exactly - did - happen in the South Farthing and along the Royal Road between those places and Dunland? You see, Yondershire and the extent Shire areas did a good job at "starting to set-up"
this stuff from the perspective of Hobbits that weren't directly involved - like Fredregar Bolger and the Yonder-Hobbits. What where did this start? How did it creep out?

True that LOTRO might paint a more detailed picture here but I don't think Saruman would be doing any 'tricking' of Sackville-Bagginses here. He was just that much into pipeweed and wouldn't risk Gandalf finding out, not to mention walk among the hobbits (he despised Gandalf for doing so... and also for pipeweed... but that he just couldn't resist in the end..). Other than piepweed he clearly had an interested in a spy network that's why he put resources into it (so there might be interesting details about how that relationship worked, with brigands and half-orcs from the South). But anything to do with Lotho was probably Lotho's own idea in the first place which only adds to his villainy. He was approached by/saw those brigands and thought he could use them rather than be used by them, perhaps wasn't even discouraged when some half-orcs turned up one day (which would make sense if we assume he had no idea about the 'Sharkey plans" and all that invasion-sounding, nefarious, very organized matters). And it's only after Saruman enters the Shire when things spiral out of control and crowds of half-orcs enter. Maybe.

Hehe I would say though that we have to remember that Frodo goes straight up to Rivendell and actually stays there for a bit. So, a lot would depend on the timing of what happens when. They'll decide what they will I guess

In practice, his journey from Gondor to Dunland might last like a year or two irl :P and that's already the point when we are send to do the Scouting (or whatever) and get back before he reaches Rivendell. Still, I would really love it if they finally put the gears into motion here, they've been sitting idly in Minas Tirth for a long long time now and that was already in Mordor when we got serious feelings of home from our hobbits



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It's the same precise kind of stone as in Elderslade as well as with the flora and fauna. BUT- when I went to Elderslade, no geography corresponded at all with the terrain.

I also thought of Elder Slade at first but didn't sit right with me. Makes me hopeful either way, we shall see.

[seekingerin]

Just discovered this thread and I love all the suggestions. I would be completely satisfied if they just plunked landmasses into many of these spots without content.

I would love to have more stories in the world, but yeah, honestly, I would probably be content if they just added traversable land to some of these places without any quests attached. I was looking at the little chunk of landscape between the Wildwood, the North Downs, and Evendim the other day; it's the area Tirian Hammerfist calls "The Ruins of Arthedain" earlier in this thread. It's a tiny area, maybe half the size of Wildwood. It shouldn't be difficult to come up with stories to tell about this area; between the orcs crossing into the Wildwood at Marl's Crossing, the treasure hunters of Barad Tharsir, and the close proximity to both Evendim and the Fields of Fornost and all the history that brings, there's a lot to work with here. But honestly, even just smoothing out the hills a little to make the area accessible, putting some finishing touches on the landscape, and plunking down some ruins to loom over the surrounding area would go a long way to making this part of the world feel more connected and a tiny bit more interesting.

All brilliant ideas! Ditto on the idea of a lower-level South Farthing to dig more into the "Sharkey - Lotho" connection, and that would actually open the door to a "Scouring version" that is level cap: say . . . starting with Tharbad on the Royal Road and heading up toward a Scouring South Farthing and Shire combined. Kind of like Mordor Besieged versus Dor Amarth.

Here's another thing I'd point out with South Farthing. The Devs admitted the Shire was under-scaled on-purpose. But there is room to expand the current areas southward. So, maybe thicken and extend the forests of Woody End, maybe expand the Green Hill Country a bit southward so it has some verticality to it, and then include the newer towns and such, perhaps even including Southern Ered Luin as the zone's southwestern borders.

I'd definitely want to see them prioritize scale -- the Marish also should be extended southward at least.

I really like your Cardolan ideas also and hope they'll listen, especially having the ruins on a greater height. I'd also like to see a return of some of the Draug wight models from the Wold and Entwash Vale. They, including the manner of their deaths, were more terrifying than the basic wights. It would make sense to have "the worst wights" haunting the ruins of Cardolan's capital - and maybe they could even introduce Gortheron for the first time as a sub-zone antagonist and have him more involved in earlier levels before encountering him again later in the Lich-Bluffs / Ost Dunhoth. He's the only Gaunt-Lord who doesn't appear in the earlier content; Thadur does, as does Ivar and Drugoth and Ferndur (*all prior to "In Their Absence" I mean). Maybe the Witch-King and the Nine spoke with him prior to overrunning the Dunedain at Sarn Ford --- plotting the "In Their Absence" plot as either part of "the new rise of Angmar" or, alternatively, as the "fail-safe" in case Mordirith should fail him. Would also be nice to get some Minas Morgul flashbacks to learn how the WK had gotten involved with Gaunt-Lords in the first place; some of the newer instances only hint at this, and maybe Lhaereth "ensured" the spreading of the Great Plague that far north. Lots of possibilities game-lore-wise.

I'm kind of thinking that the Cardolan ruins and Tharbad would be centers of the newer content. Of course, my "dream upon dreams" would be a "Mordor Besieged" equivalent of the War of the Elves and Sauron from Eregion to the Battle of the Gwaithlo, *laughs.* Lots of layers to the history from the Numenoreans chopping-down all the forests and then the War in the SA to the fall of Arnor and the Plague and the Barrow-Wights in the TA to Saruman's doings in the late TA. Lots of history across those regions

Cheers!

There's so much history in this part of the world. SSG has always been good about drawing on that history to make interesting content and finding ways to sneak those stories into the game. Because southern Eriador is largely deserted, they'll probably have to rely on history more than usual. I don't think that should be a problem for them. And yes! I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if we saw some Second Age flashbacks set in this part of the world. It would be a perfect way to tie into the Amazon show.

Between Lhaereth and the history of the Great Plague, I definitely think we're going to be seeing more content exploring the plague in the future. Introducing Gortheron earlier in the story is a great idea too.

I love the idea of reworking the southern part of the Shire a bit. I've always found the Woody End extraordinarily underwhelming, so it could definitely use some expansion, and I would love to see some thicker forests. Expanding the Marish would be nice too. It would probably be tricky work, since the layout of the Shire is so well-defined by the Tolkiens, but I trust the world designers to be able to improve the southern Shire while still respecting the lore.

Sounds like fun. But even without a challenge, I just enjoy strolling through some places on the valared alt, no goal in mind, just the road and seeing places again. Unlike many other games, there is something about LOTRO and the integrity of its vast world that makes that kind of sight-seeing unique here (well, I remember something very similar from Enderal: The Shards of Order, although I haven't got to replaying it yet, but it too got great storytelling and world-building, so maybe that's why). But my dream come true on an alt would be if they added self-contained auto-bestowals in empty places of the world... so I can do both sight-seeing and getting exp, perhaps even a challenge like crossing from Ered Luin to Yondershire through Lune while still under-leveled and then doing some landscape quests there that popped up or were encountered when interacting with the item in the wild, so things like gathering stuff while trying to avoid mobs or trying to take on higher level mobs, and still be rewarded decent amount of exp if I succeed so there is character progression to it

I agree that LOTRO is uniquely enjoyable to explore. I think Tolkien and SSG share credit for that. Tolkien's lore is vast and meticulously thought out. His worldbuilding is grounded and detailed, and it draws on real-world history and mythology and linguistics, which makes the world feel unusually believable. I think the low-magic setting probably helps that too; it keeps everything pretty grounded. Karen Wynn Fonstad probably deserves a little credit too, for thinking through details of the world that Tolkien himself did not. So SSG had all that as a very solid foundation to work with, and then they took an approach to expanding the world that is very similar to Tolkien's. They've drawn on real-world geography, mythology, history, and linguistics and drawn on real-world cultures to define the culture of Middle Earth. Taken together, there's a realism and depth to the game world that I find very satisfying. It all just feels so much more plausible and well-thought-out than other game worlds.

I really do like this idea of adding more auto-bestowed quests to some of the emptier parts of the game world. I love exploring; it's my favorite part of gaming. But I like it better when I have a reason to explore and spend some time in an area. Even though I just said in this very post that I would be content if they added landscape without quests, I would much rather have quests, even if they're very simple quests, because it gives me a reason to explore the landscape. I don't know how difficult quest design in LOTRO is, but I wouldn't think it would be difficult to add some very simple repeatable quests to the world. Honestly, it would give players a whole new, self-directed way to level up, which would be great for a lot of people and not just for explorers like us. I've been hearing people complain about "theme park MMOs" for as long as I've been playing this game. Auto-bestowed repeatables could make the game much more sandboxy and satisfying to a certain type of player.

Well, we can glean three things from the new Producer's Letter:

1- The Swanfleet / Minhiriath zone is probably the 6-month area Scenario described at some point in his "Yondershire" live-stream. That tracks with the timing of the quarterly Producer's Letters: it's going to be a Fall update if not a late Fall / Winter one, explaining why it isn't mentioned in the current one. The "surprise" the Producer's Letter mentions is probably smaller-scale since the Angle and Yondershire were announced more directly in advance in the Producer's Letters in the past.

2- Whether that new zone is level-cap or not is an open question. But it isn't coming in the near-future. That also tracks with many of the areas south of Bree-land and Lone-Lands / southwest of the Angle remaining hidden or under-developed. It'll be interesting to see if more and more appears on newer Bullroarer builds via point-updates and whether those point-updates will get the landscape changes reflected over time, which I'd suspect they would.

I'm a bit concerned though that the level cap really needs an update and that Swanfleet would be a remarkably bad place to have it; a level 140 zone next to a level 14-20 zone would mean getting 1-shot if you make a wrong step, not even a chance for survival at all. I think a great compromise would be a level 140 expansion centered on the War of the Elves and Sauron including parts of Swanfleet, Eregion, and the Angle, and having the Third Age Swanfleet area be level 50-60 as a Moria alternative. That way, if you accidentally bumped into "the red zone" from Bree-land, you'd still have more of a fighting chance to escape back into "Safe Territory," and at the same time, it would give the end-gamers some engaging content to play-through.

Also, exploring "Sharkey's" - rise - of influence in the South Farthing and in the Swanfleet / trading between the regions I think would be a bit more interesting; by the time Frodo returns to the Shire, it's the "wind-down," "Sharkey" vastly reduced in power and really just at the downward spiral to rock-bottom.

TBH, if I had to choose between Frodo's return to the Shire / pre-Scouring stuff and . . . the biggest battle Sauron ever fought in Eriador and actually legitimately - lost - even with the One Ring on his finger? Never mind the whole tragedy of "Antheron" tricking the High Elves and Celebrimbor's downfall. I'll gladly take the latter; far more interesting than a pack of ruffians and half-Orcs trailing a broken ex-Wizard with a crawling Wormtongue behind him, thank you very much

That's something Gundabad had me very excited about, in a certain "Epic instance" with a ton of flashback sequences. That was . . . a delicious dessert; would love even more of that.

Cheers!

The fact that the Royal Road is apparently coming in Q3 and not Q4 definitely makes the potential scale of the new area make more sense to me. All available evidence makes it seem like they're working on the areas both east and west of the Gwathlo at once, which has always surprised me, since it's such a massive area. But if it's not being released until the fall, it seems more plausible to me. I definitely think it seems more likely that we're getting both sides of the Gwathlo.

It also makes me think it's more likely that this area is going to be endgame content. I think it's probably the wiser decision to make it endgame content. Reading a few posts in the Producer's Letter thread, endgame players seem to be getting pretty restless. Leaving them hanging without any new content this fall seems unwise. Given the scale of the new area, I also think there's a good chance that it will be a paid expansion a la Gundabad rather than an area that's free to VIPs a la Yondershire, and I think it would be difficult to convince players to buy an expansion that isn't endgame content.

One interesting possibility to throw out is that we could be getting both lower-level content or endgame content. Scenario discussed the idea of level scaling in a Casual Stroll video a while back, and I got the impression that it's an idea that SSG is at least somewhat interested in attempting. He mentioned some complications with making scalable landscape content; but this seems like an ideal time to attempt it, beneath the influx of new players, the influx of money and developers, the interest in expanding the world, the renewed focus on expanding Eriador, SSG's desire in recent years to make sure most content releases have content for both low-level players and endgame players, and the fact that the endgame is between stories at the moment. It would solve the problem of how SSG can fill in all the nooks and crannies of Eriador without either alienating high-level players or endangering low-level players. One potential drawback for us as players is that it might be more difficult for them to tell linear stories that are set at specific points in time, but there may be ways to work around that.

Alternatively, we could potentially get, say, an endgame-oriented flashback area set in, say, old Cardolan or Second Age Eregion alongside a lower-level Royal Road area, which could again provide content for both lower-level players or endgame players.

I posted this in the Producer’s Letter thread, but it feels relevant here too.

Has anyone looked closely at the background of the new class/race screenshot in the Producer’s Letter?

This looks to me like our first screenshot of the ‘Royal Road’ region - not recognisable as anywhere else currently in the game, sweeping hills using their new tech, and a Lonelands colour pallet…

This is a good observation; I can't place this screenshot either. If this is from the new area, I would guess that it's pretty far south along the Gwathlo, looking east or southeast. The mountains in the distance are a clue; I think they must be the Misty Mountains. The only other mountains that might be visible from this part of the world would be the Ered Luin, which might be visible across the Brandywine; but the river isn't the right color for the Brandywine, and the landscape on the other river looks decidedly un-Shire-like.

One other possibility is that this was taken along the Lhun river, north of Yondershire. There's been no indication that they've been doing serious work in this area, but this looks a lot like the landscape around the Lhun to me, and the mountains could be the Blue Mountains.

Let's agree to disagree on this; I have a very different interpretation. All "Sharkey" has is maybe about 60-100 ruffians, nothing remotely resembling the vastness of his forces that attacked the Fords and Helm's Deep, and his staff is broken, literally and quasi-spiritually, and at most, all he has left is his "ability" to trick gullible people with persuasion. He's lost his supernatural powers; he's just a thug leading them in-person who has lost his home and just wants to "hurt" those he deems responsible - the Hobbits (*rather than his own wicked self for betraying the West, imprisoning Gandalf, unjustly assailing Rohan, etc.).

To my mind, the far more interesting tale is uncovering precisely how "Sharkey" tricked the Sackville-Bagginses in the first place, a very significant gap in the lore. Also, that all that pipeweed in Isengard suggests there was a major schema, a fast network perhaps through trade, coercion, or both, and precisely why "Sharkey" was even bothering himself with all this Shire stuff (*and had just that 1 lone southern dude in Bree spying on Frodo for him instead of having all his ruffians trying to catch Frodo before the Nazgul could), etc.

That's more interesting to me; not the shamed, broken villain just taking a mean walk along the Royal Road to the Shire to give some extra hurt to Frodo and company. To me, all the intrigue involving the South Farthing and the Royal Road is precisely what Saruman was up to with the Shire in the first place, the lines between the lines, not only what the lore and Tolkien tells us outright and him trying to figure-out Gandalf's interest in the place but - why - that was so and - how - he tricked those people.

For example, did he himself sneak up there in person and actually present himself to Lotho the way Gandalf did with Bilbo and Frodo? Is there a very sad, tragic tale of how Saruman tricked these Hobbits into thinking he was a good guy? What exactly - did - happen in the South Farthing and along the Royal Road between those places and Dunland? You see, Yondershire and the extent Shire areas did a good job at "starting to set-up"
this stuff from the perspective of Hobbits that weren't directly involved - like Fredregar Bolger and the Yonder-Hobbits. What where did this start? How did it creep out?

It's just my preference, and I respect yours also, and I agree having a long gap in level-cap content isn't a good thing. I'm just saying I'd prefer the next level-cap area to make some more geographic sense after Gundabad- perhaps Middle Mirkwood or something along those lines- and for the Eriador stuff to be more of a "lead-up" toward Rise of Isengard and what happens there. *Shrugs shoulders.* Plus, you could have things there that aren't possible after the Ents stomp Isengard: How about actual Uruk-hai villains in Eriador? Did Saruman have a hidden plot to nab Frodo up there but the Nazgul beat him to it (*as hinted by those White Hand allied Orcs and Goblins in the Lone-lands?)? Did he actually turn Tharbad into his proxy-northern-base?

You see, I guess what I'm trying to say here is that then the "pay-off" for the Scouring would be much higher in the story if they actually explored this stuff before Gandalf and the Ents "put Saruman out of business," sort to speak. There's a lot more to the tale here, and I wouldn't want them to rush it. When we have Frodo returning to the Shire, Lotho is about to suffer a terrible fate at "Sharkey's" orders, and so, it's "too little, too late" by that point.

There's even an opportunity to have our player-character "try to talk Lotho out of getting involved with stuff that is beyond his pay-grade," and for Lotho to even trick us and make our efforts look successful on the way to the likes of Enedwaith and Dunland in the leveling, just as he tricks Halros (*depending on your decision- my preferred one is usually "Halros Should Go") into thinking all is well in the Shire.

I don't have a strong preference whether the new area is a lower-level area or an endgame area, aside from the fact that I worry about leaving endgame players without new content for much longer. I do just want to say, though, that some of this story--particularly the part of the story that relates directly to Lotho and the Shire--could still be told in the Southfarthing.

On the subject of the Scouring, btw, it sounds like it's probably not coming anytime soon. In the Producer's Letter thread, a player said this:

"The Scouring of the Shire won't quite seem right with thousands of Hobbit Lore-masters pounding a few scruffy ruffians with fireballs and Bog-lurkers."

...to which MadeofLions responded with this:

"It won't feel right with a single Elf there either, but that'll be my (distant, long time from now) challenge."

[TesalionLortus]

I really do like this idea of adding more auto-bestowed quests to some of the emptier parts of the game world. I love exploring; it's my favorite part of gaming. But I like it better when I have a reason to explore and spend some time in an area. Even though I just said in this very post that I would be content if they added landscape without quests, I would much rather have quests, even if they're very simple quests, because it gives me a reason to explore the landscape. I don't know how difficult quest design in LOTRO is, but I wouldn't think it would be difficult to add some very simple repeatable quests to the world. Honestly, it would give players a whole new, self-directed way to level up, which would be great for a lot of people and not just for explorers like us. I've been hearing people complain about "theme park MMOs" for as long as I've been playing this game. Auto-bestowed repeatables could make the game much more sandboxy and satisfying to a certain type of player.

Not even just repeatables, but more of auto-bestowals/exploration-driven gathering in general. I came up with this idea here and travelling again through Ered Luin on my Valar'ed alt I had some cool quest ideas stack in my head so I've actually crated some Proof-of-concept quests for them with locs and all. I will post them at some point, they're basically already-ready-to-be-implemented text quests with locations. Coming up with those wasn't super difficult and there are many locations that could use some extra flavor too! It's perfectly reasonable and possible to make the world feel more alive beyond just the quest hub pathways (but without making the extra content matter to the larger storylines of regions).

One interesting possibility to throw out is that we could be getting both lower-level content or endgame content. Scenario discussed the idea of level scaling in a Casual Stroll video a while back, and I got the impression that it's an idea that SSG is at least somewhat interested in attempting. He mentioned some complications with making scalable landscape content; but this seems like an ideal time to attempt it, beneath the influx of new players, the influx of money and developers, the interest in expanding the world, the renewed focus on expanding Eriador, SSG's desire in recent years to make sure most content releases have content for both low-level players and endgame players, and the fact that the endgame is between stories at the moment. It would solve the problem of how SSG can fill in all the nooks and crannies of Eriador without either alienating high-level players or endangering low-level players. One potential drawback for us as players is that it might be more difficult for them to tell linear stories that are set at specific points in time, but there may be ways to work around that.

Alternatively, we could potentially get, say, an endgame-oriented flashback area set in, say, old Cardolan or Second Age Eregion alongside a lower-level Royal Road area, which could again provide content for both lower-level players or endgame players.

This could be a cool idea, although only makes sense if they can make it work on such a big scale without having the world feel like its storylines are becoming convoluted (the kind of convoluted/separate Bingo Boffin's quest chain is - though only sometimes, or that out-of-order lower lvl questline with Bingo family in Yondershire, or all the stuff with mission recruiters and Further Adventures, OR the Wedding accessible to all but being kind of convoluted/immersion-breaking for some people who want to do stuff in order and NOT run into Aragorn already crowned a king...). So yeah... really sounds like the story would have to be really really separate from everything else. Unless it's just lower level story bits - like the ones from Yondershire - but higher level players can have the content scaled to their level to enjoy it on cap, which might work but still sounds like you're not targeting your cap players at all and refuse to provide any sort of storyline continuation for them. So hmm, a difficult thing to be sure.

On the subject of the Scouring, btw, it sounds like it's probably not coming anytime soon. In the Producer's Letter thread, a player said this:

"The Scouring of the Shire won't quite seem right with thousands of Hobbit Lore-masters pounding a few scruffy ruffians with fireballs and Bog-lurkers."

...to which MadeofLions responded with this:

"It won't feel right with a single Elf there either, but that'll be my (distant, long time from now) challenge."

I saw that too, at first kind of made me worry they're like really trying to delay any sort of progress with the book's last chapters for years and years on end. But hard to tell really... because if you think back to Mordor's release and apply the same kind of sentence to a potential question about Gundabad/Minas Morgul - wouldn't the answer be basically the same? So "distant, long time from now" (which at the time would hold true) but I never expected them to do the Royal Road and then immediately the Scouring to begin with (there is even that possibility that we don't participate in the Scouring in real time, only later as a retelling or something, a potential route they may decide to take when push comes to shove). But yeah, overall, I hope we can get to end of the War of the Ring at Bag End in a reasonable irl timeframe, whether that's 1-2 years, 3 years, or something, preferably sooner than later, but that's still 'distant' rather close by. But if what he means by it is "gotta delaying it for next 10 years and longer" now that's bad... ;/

[Fealhach]

On the subject of the Scouring, btw, it sounds like it's probably not coming anytime soon. In the Producer's Letter thread, a player said this:

"The Scouring of the Shire won't quite seem right with thousands of Hobbit Lore-masters pounding a few scruffy ruffians with fireballs and Bog-lurkers."

...to which MadeofLions responded with this:

"It won't feel right with a single Elf there either, but that'll be my (distant, long time from now) challenge."

It took us 10 years to get from Shadows of Angmar (2007) to Mordor (2017). We are currently on 15 years of content with Raninia asking for a content plan for the next 15 years I don't think we will be seeing the Scouring In the short term. I'd guess at another 10 years (2027) for the journey back! And even then that won't be the end. I'd give it another 10 years (2037) for the Last Sailing of the Ring-bearers. And even then that won't be the end!

Cheers

[TesalionLortus]

It took us 10 years to get from Shadows of Angmar (2007) to Mordor (2017). We are currently on 15 years of content with Raninia asking for a content plan for the next 15 years I don't think we will be seeing the Scouring In the short term. I'd guess at another 10 years (2027) for the journey back!

While there is no doubt no shortage of content (=landmass, but also lots of fill-in-the-blanks storylines as well as original ones, not to mention tales of yore style of content) you only reinforced my point here about 'it being more worrisome of it's too long' : P - from SoA to Mordor it covered almost the entirety of three books with associated landmasses (where most of key book characters resided in), even though that included lots of original made-up stuff as well, so to compare that with the tiny bit of book content that remains (excluding appendices) is a bit over-the-top comparison and inadequate : P Journey back in another 10 years would be a bad joke and an equivalent of "so we've covered almost the entirety of the known map right now so only now they can go back hihihi pause button off" :P Sounds needlessly silly and outstretched to extreme (and that's even without getting into... other potential issues with the timeline, depending on what kind of original content they may choose to depict at that point in time before unpausing the books)

What Raninia mentioned was more like "I've heard we're near the end of books, so what kind of content we might still do in another 15 years?" and the team being like "oh so here are all those plot loose ends not yet explored, here are lots of other ideas and wishes we have, more tales of yore, oh also there are appendices in the books so anything goes, and look at the map, it's still so empty!" rather than "here is a detailed plan for another 15 years of content" as if everything was already set in stone, clearly it's not ; ) Even the recent shift towards low level regions/Eriador shows this

And even then that won't be the end. I'd give it another 10 years (2037) for the Last Sailing of the Ring-bearers. And even then that won't be the end!

Sure it would be the end, if by that time... we've covered the entirety of the map and going back just to revisit/remake old locations all the time - now, that wouldn't work game/mmo design wise because the spark would have been lost. So I rather prefer a "spread out" approach, do some stuff now in moderation, slowly turn the gears onward with the remaining book chapters, eventually get us further on the timeline, do even more epic original stuff, go back and redo some of the places if it makes sense (After Battle kind of thing), maybe take care of appendices/tales of yore stuff too (Numenor?), get into some Fourth Age stuff etc. So basically what the game has always done rather than have us remain on the 'pause limbo' forever now

[Fealhach]

In 15 years we have barely covered a third of the known map, and that still leaves the other two thirds and then the extensive lands of Rhun, Forodwaith, Harad and Khand. On top of that we can revisit existing zones in times of yore or revisit those zones at a future time. If they wanted to they could keep this game running for some time. They aren't running out of content anytime soon.

I see the 'journey home' as being spread intermittently over a similar timescale to the journey to Mt Doom (10 years), during this time It will take a stop start road home revisiting peoples and places and experiencing new stories post war. This will also be an opportunity for the developers to fill in all the remaining Eriador zones (Anfalas, Pinnath Gelin, Andrath, Druwath Iaur, western Enedwaith, Minhiriath, Forlindon, Harlindon, The Grey Havens and everything in between).

There is no way they are going to have you leave Minas Tirith on one day and arrive at The Shire on the next. We've seen how they work and how content has been stretched out. The epic main storyline will be there lurking in the background even while we are visiting new lands and new books similar to how we have experienced The Black Book of Mordor and The Legacy of Durin and the Trials of the Dwarves. And the game needs to keep that main storyline epic running because that is what still makes the game Lord of the Rings

Cheers

[TesalionLortus]

There is no way they are going to have you leave Minas Tirith on one day and arrive at The Shire on the next.

Now, never said anything about doing that in one update, not even in a few updates, only about actually doing it and being somehow serious about it at some point.

In 15 years we have barely covered a third of the known map, and that still leaves the other two thirds and then the extensive lands of Rhun, Forodwaith, Harad and Khand. On top of that we can revisit existing zones in times of yore or revisit those zones at a future time. If they wanted to they could keep this game running for some time. They aren't running out of content anytime soon.

Exactly what I said... Of course there is still SO MUCH to explore! Can't wait

opportunity for the developers to fill in all the remaining Eriador zones (Anfalas, Pinnath Gelin, Andrath, Druwath Iaur, western Enedwaith, Minhiriath, Forlindon, Harlindon, The Grey Havens and everything in between).

Sure, but you can have any of those places at any point in time, nothing says they must be there before the Scouring or anything. If anything, that's the kind of "spread it out!" I meant - have us visit different of these places at different points in time rather than condense everything into the single point on the timeline. Anything to do with some of the less known corners of Eriador would be far more interesting (and justified) to see in Fourth Age anyway... restoration of Arnor and such... not now, when it obviously can't happen yet, and if it did that would be a little too silly/too forced.

new books similar to how we have experienced The Black Book of Mordor and The Legacy of Durin and the Trials of the Dwarves. And the game needs to keep that main storyline epic running because that is what still makes the game Lord of the Rings

Strongly disagree on that front, new books are actually A Part of the overreaching storyline (or even something that can be considered the new Main storyline) not a "storyline to be experienced on the sidelines while books loom in the background" as if we were in two separate worlds. Also, nothing ties us to the epic book (remaining parts of the book) either, since the game can be effectively self-reliable (without clear-cut LOTR material in it), just as it was within the great portion of SoA, the Black Book and Gundabad (although this one created some issues). There are appendixes to take from too, and with "After the Fall" themes we're already into that kind of stuff anyway, so to have Frodo journey home (and actually reaching home or havens ; ) within another 10 years is completely reasonable and thematically sensible here, IMO.

[gildhur]

It took us 10 years to get from Shadows of Angmar (2007) to Mordor (2017). We are currently on 15 years of content with Raninia asking for a content plan for the next 15 years I don't think we will be seeing the Scouring In the short term. I'd guess at another 10 years (2027) for the journey back! And even then that won't be the end. I'd give it another 10 years (2037) for the Last Sailing of the Ring-bearers. And even then that won't be the end!

Looking forward to watching Frodo sail into the West with my kids after I retire and they have kids of their own who can sit with us and watch.

[seekingerin]

I'm hoping we get a little bit of new landscape with the Elladan and Elrohir stuff. They're going from Rivendell to Lothlorien on some secret mission, so there's a slight chance there could be some new landscape around Rivendell or Lothlorien or in the area between them. It's probably not very likely, but one can dream.

[Fealhach]

Looking forward to watching Frodo sail into the West with my kids after I retire and they have kids of their own who can sit with us and watch.

And then of course another 10 years (2047) to witness Sam Gamgee leaving Middle-earth and a further 10 years (2057) for the deaths of both Aragorn and Arwen.

Cheers

[TesalionLortus]

another 10 years (2047) to witness Sam Gamgee leaving Middle-earth and a further 10 years (2057) for the deaths of both Aragorn and Arwen.

In essence, why not... but it's a bit of a fallacy to assume the game has a chance to sustain itself THAT long Which is why I said this process can be accelerated a bit with new regions being introduced spread out on in-game timeline rather than... condensed into one point on it, with most of big, critical areas (such as Harad) covered before we even reach Grey Havens (please no, better spread it out). Only no deaths of Aragorn and Arwen, not even Sam leaving :P Some player characters aren't immortal/long-lived but 10-20 years into FA would be believable/viable enough as a future prospect for the game's content

[Fealhach]

In essence, why not... but it's a bit of a fallacy to assume the game has a chance to sustain itself THAT long Which is why I said this process can be accelerated a bit with new regions being introduced spread out on in-game timeline rather than... condensed into one point on it, with most of big, critical areas (such as Harad) covered before we even reach Grey Havens (please no, better spread it out). Only no deaths of Aragorn and Arwen, not even Sam leaving :P Some player characters aren't immortal/long-lived but 10-20 years into FA would be believable/viable enough as a future prospect

Ah, but my Hobbit might surpass Bilbo's 131 years! But yeah, let's not get ahead of ourselves, there's plenty to fill those intervening years!

Cheers

[TesalionLortus]

Ah, but my Hobbit Lore-master might surpass Bilbo's 131 years!

Hmm, in theory we might run into one of lesser rings during the Eregion/the Forging 'retelling', then find it in Third Age and keep using it because the magic not yet all gone, and that's already a handy plot device to extend our lifespan... so we might as well do the New Shadow and the death of Eldarion while we're at it :P

[Fealhach]

Hmm, in theory we might run into one of lesser rings during the Eregion/the Forging 'retelling', then find it in Third Age and keep using it because the magic not yet all gone, and that's already a handy plot device to extend our lifespan... so we might as well do the New Shadow and the death of Eldarion while we're at it :P

In which case I'll need some medical advancements in real life to still be around to play it!

Cheers

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

In which case I'll need some medical advancements in real life to still be around to play it!

Cheers

Anyone able to get on to Bullroarer to see if there have been any further landscape changes?

[Phantion]

Anyone able to get on to Bullroarer to see if there have been any further landscape changes?

I did!

Here is my report:

Everything is status quo. There IS an odd distant imposter bug in the Lone-Lands putting some scattered and twisted pine trees and over-enlarged bushes hither and thither - and only around the Weather Hills area southwest of Weathertop / north of Minas Eriol. Whether that bug is from what landscape further south will look like spilling further north by accident remains to be seen; but, it looks like just a generic bug - not anything indicative of what will come next.

I scouted looking south from Weathertop, along the Lone-Lands, climbed all over the southern heights of the Angle, and I can say that there have been no changes.

I might scout areas around Andrath and the Gloomglens / Enedwaith and south of Brandywine Bridge--- but since they plugged that Enedwaith hole on the live-servers, I sincerely doubt I'll be able to see much.

My current impression: No significant landscape changes visible on BR (*beyond what we know already in the thread). Would be very happy to be proven wrong by someone

You know, because of those accidental leaks in the past, this may well be them confining their world-building efforts to their own exclusive "Palantir" server and the like --- just keeping things very under-wraps from now onward until they are ready to preview the next newer areas.

Cheers!

[TesalionLortus]

You know, because of those accidental leaks in the past, this may well be them confining their world-building efforts to their own exclusive "Palantir" server and the like --- just keeping things very under-wraps from now onward until they are ready to preview the next newer areas.

Well, I guess that puts that "dry" letter into perspective, that they "have exciting things but can't share yet" doesn't it :P and now they made sure we won't find out before the next letter :P

[seekingerin]

I did!

Here is my report:

Everything is status quo. There IS an odd distant imposter bug in the Lone-Lands putting some scattered and twisted pine trees and over-enlarged bushes hither and thither - and only around the Weather Hills area southwest of Weathertop / north of Minas Eriol. Whether that bug is from what landscape further south will look like spilling further north by accident remains to be seen; but, it looks like just a generic bug - not anything indicative of what will come next.

I scouted looking south from Weathertop, along the Lone-Lands, climbed all over the southern heights of the Angle, and I can say that there have been no changes.

I might scout areas around Andrath and the Gloomglens / Enedwaith and south of Brandywine Bridge--- but since they plugged that Enedwaith hole on the live-servers, I sincerely doubt I'll be able to see much.

My current impression: No significant landscape changes visible on BR (*beyond what we know already in the thread). Would be very happy to be proven wrong by someone

You know, because of those accidental leaks in the past, this may well be them confining their world-building efforts to their own exclusive "Palantir" server and the like --- just keeping things very under-wraps from now onward until they are ready to preview the next newer areas.

Cheers!

Yeah, I imagine they're being careful about letting too many landscape changes make it into the live game. I think it's probably always been the case that they try to confine such changes to their internal servers, but they're probably being especially cautious about it after the Enedwaith changes accidentally went live.

Thanks for looking! I was curious.

[Phantion]

Yeah, I imagine they're being careful about letting too many landscape changes make it into the live game. I think it's probably always been the case that they try to confine such changes to their internal servers, but they're probably being especially cautious about it after the Enedwaith changes accidentally went live.

Thanks for looking! I was curious.

Sure Yep, things are pretty quiet over there unless there's something I've missed.


But when we think about it, it makes sense that any further changes near the Enedwaith areas are "frozen" on the live servers from where they were with the leaks, whereas the "south of Bree-land and Lone-Lands" stuff was pretty hidden save, perhaps, for those Fangorn-looking trees in the distance (*since Eriador was once a great forest - of which "The Old Forest" is a main remnant, it's probable that we're getting more little patches and places lingering from the world as it used to be, where Fangorn and the Old Forest and Greenwood / Mirkwood were all interconnected).

But I have no doubt this area is the one Scenario in a livestream said "will take 6 months." We're just seeing a little bit of what things looked like, from the leaks, as of the midway point in that process.

Cheers!

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Sure Yep, things are pretty quiet over there unless there's something I've missed.


But when we think about it, it makes sense that any further changes near the Enedwaith areas are "frozen" on the live servers from where they were with the leaks, whereas the "south of Bree-land and Lone-Lands" stuff was pretty hidden save, perhaps, for those Fangorn-looking trees in the distance (*since Eriador was once a great forest - of which "The Old Forest" is a main remnant, it's probable that we're getting more little patches and places lingering from the world as it used to be, where Fangorn and the Old Forest and Greenwood / Mirkwood were all interconnected).

But I have no doubt this area is the one Scenario in a livestream said "will take 6 months." We're just seeing a little bit of what things looked like, from the leaks, as of the midway point in that process.

Cheers!

Which stream was this in? I’m trying to figure out a rough timeline - presumably autumn for the great southern zone? That would make it in prime expansion season, methinks.

[Phantion]

Which stream was this in? I’m trying to figure out a rough timeline - presumably autumn for the great southern zone? That would make it in prime expansion season, methinks.

It was either Scenario's "Casual Stroll through Yondershire" (preview) or the one before it. I'm sorry I can't quite recall, as it was a very brief comment - I think it was the Yondershire one but am not totally positive.

But if we figure that Devs were working on the landscape around the same time they were working on Yondershire (*the "beyond Enedwaith and Eregion" new-zone-leaks happened in Yondershire when it came onto Live), and that the majority of said landscape-work was in the southeastern portions of the new zone (*with areas south of Bree / Lone-Lands mostly un-developed but for the "placeholder" landscape southwest of the Angle) . . . it's hard to say when they started working on it, and only they may fully know when they had their world-designers get busy by the Gloomglens and western Eregion and so forth. Could have been roughly at the same time as Yondershire development, could have been sooner . . .

My "spidey sense" is telling me they are halfway through the process - or at least approaching that "3 month mark". Just a mere hunch. I'd be extremely shocked if the new region isn't announced in the next quarterly Producer's Letter.

We also ought to remember that while Fall and Winter updates might overlap, they don't always. My hope is that if, by chance, the next region isn't a level cap area, that they'll still give level cap players something, and a Tales of Yore approach to the fall of Eregion would make some measure of sense given what's in the air right now.


Cheers!

[seekingerin]

Going to be careful about how I word this, because I don't want to get anyone in trouble. I've come across a couple of videos that shed a little more light on things. The videos show footage of the landscape between Andrath and the King's Way Gate, which is the area we've been discussing for the last couple of months. The videos predate the Angle, but not by too much, so I was able to compare the landscape as it was in these videos to the landscape as it is in game currently. I don't know exactly how the videos were made or if the techniques used are kosher, so I won't be giving any more specifics, because again, I don't want to get anyone in trouble for doing stuff they shouildn't.


The video confirms a few things for me:

1. Some of the stuff I've spotted south of Andrath, south of the Lone Lands, and north of the Gloomglens is definitely new. The biggest change visible in game is definitely the area northwest of the Gloomglens. Everything from Eregion to where Tharbad is likely to be used to be sort of one big mountain/hill/upland/whatever; now it's a marshy area with some hills, with a considerable drop-off between King's Way Gate and the marshes below, and with considerably different texturing. Basically everything about this area is different than it was when the video was made. There's also more detail in the hills south of the Lone-Lands, which were just placeholders when the video was made. And the area through the Andrath gate has changed, which has resulted in the "ghost castle" noted above; the landscape has changed, but the assets that had been placed in the area have not been moved. Specifically, the cliffside that used to be behind the floating walls has been lowered. I think the textures and frills south of the Bree-Land may have changed as well. I wasn't able to tell just how much the landscape south of the Bree-Land has changed between the video and what's currently in game, but there have definitely been changes elsewhere.

2. All of the above changes seem to have come with the Yondershire update. The person who uploaded the videos left a comment between the Angle and Yondershire releases that the only changes in this area since the video had been to the area visible from the Angle and said that they didn't expect any further changes to this area any time soon. I'm guessing the entire landscape of Eriador was updated when Yondershire was updated, and that the changes in-game reflect the progress they'd made on the new area up to that point.

3. I don't think we can infer too much from what's on the terrain map. Some of the features visible on the terrain map were already visible when the videos were made, which means they predate at least the Angle. I'm not sure to what extent they reflect current thinking and development and to what extent they're simply the remnants of work that's been done in the past.

4. I think the southern stretch of the Ered Luin is visible in one of the videos. The mountains look to be quite large and steep. I can't tell if they're very old work or if it was something that was done more recently. If they're in their final location, it looks like the Southfarthing could be quite large, though it's difficult to tell size and distances in the video. No idea how the landforms visible in the game right now relate to these mountains.