Welcome back to the Ettenmoors!

[SSG_Orion]

I got cordovan's endorsement... watch at 1.25 speed for maximum rage effect

Good video. I'm not going to counter a lot of your gripes, because you're pointing out aspects of Audacity that I am well aware exist. But, what you have provided me are snippets of details that I can make adjustments to - this is good, Going to file a couple of bugs.

[Drarin]

Not sure where you are getting raids no longer get credit for anything on landscape. No changes were made to any of these interactions.

They're getting it from here: https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...69#post8145869

Raid Groups playing in Landscape will no longer benefit from Open Tapping, and will also no longer receive money, loot, xp, reputation, quest advancement or deed advancement from monster kills in landscape.

[SSG_Orion]

This is pandering in the extreme. I know most of the most committed players to PvMP are creeps and vocal about the perceived imbalances, and to internally justify man-hours on the necessary changes (in both directions) there has to be a return on that investment in terms of player engagement (and possibly in player store sales). BUT I disagree that creeps have 'always' lacked the tools.

I think the lack of tools that are being referenced are ways to obviate the power-creep that is always inherent to player advancement since it is the main aspect of the game. Player skills sometimes completely negate game play in the 'moors. Outdistancing the range on instakills is a big one.

By tools, I am referencing counter play. I am a big advocate of counter play. Anything you can do, I can diminish - not remove or cripple - but, diminish.

Last comment is to do with the commendations armour currently being barred OUTSIDE of PvMP. This was a balance issue with the release of Gundabad having teal 446 item level gear was more than intended for landscape and a block was swiftly patched in (after we'd spent thousands and thousands of comms) -- and now that the PvE gear from the raid is item level 470+ teals that change should be reverted and we should be able to use PvMP gear anywhere.

It's not the stats. It's what audacity does on the general game.

[SSG_Orion]

I havent got the time to try Bullroarer yet but I have 2 concerns so far:
1. Purchase audacity tinctures with Mithril sounds like p2w. Making PVMP free for all but adding a purchasable buff with real money - me no like. Honestly I am not a fan of the tinctures. Will the cost be too high or too low? As if it stacks to 10 the total audacity will be 35, so why bother purchase audacity ranks when you can purchase tincures with comms/MC./
2. Removing inf/renown gain from healing outside of fellow is good, but this might encourage large groups/raids running around rather than more solo/small group roaming.

I will provide more feedback once I am able to test.

1. The tincture always applies 5 levels. The tincture stacks to 10 but only one application at a time. Comms cost is nominal for tincutres. Mithril is just an alternate method to acquire.
2. So there might be incentive necessary for fellow play. Fair point.

Again, this is a give and take between we devs and you players right now.

[SSG_Orion]

Orion seems to strategically be dancing around this when someone brings it up, not realizing that people just hate those lagout buttonmash fights.


This isn't Shadows of Angmar anymore..... the game just can't handle more than a 12v12.

Not dancing. Not strategically. Yes, raids are bad because of lag. Not something I can sprinkle the magic pixie dust on and fix sadly.

[SSG_Orion]

Bullroarer U33.1 Preview #1; My suggestion and Thoughts

Freep-Side:

* Freep's Armor will get put into Inventory, after Game Crash and log out / back in to the Moor's. (without leaving the Ettenmoors).

Known bug; investigating.

* Ettenmoors aren't Free2Play for the Free People.

Known issue; fixed in next iteration of Bullroarer. (Difference between a bug and issue, is that one is in a backlog of items that will need to get addressed and prioritized the latter is in the process of being fixed or introduced with a recent change and must be fixed to complete said change.)

* Brawler: Rank-Buff isn't working for them.

Can you verify which rank buff this is. Thank you for catching this, I will enter a bug.

* Hunter: Needs a Upgrade like Warleader Mobilise Skill 55% Run-Speed.

I'm not sold on this. I understand the sentiment but you still have mounts.

* Remove or reduce the log out lock from Freep to Creep side. (There's no reason anymore for it, because many of the players have like 5+ accounts to spy).

Not sold on this. It's an interesting point and one that will be exacerbated with the move to free creepside/freepside.

* Ettenmoors access only with level 135 or 140. (What need lvl 20s to do in the Moor's?; Nothing -> Training-Dummies are all over Middle-Earth).

Yeah, there needs to be a disclaimer that you will get your butt handed to you if you go in too early.

* Armour/Jewellery Uprgrade prices. (Is there a price decrease possible? 115'000 Commendations only T4 without Upgrade is way to much; Upgrade from T3 -> T4 costs also 46'000 Commendations).

I'm not planning on reducing these yet. There are reasons...but they are next step.

Monster-Side:

* [Tincture of the Sauron's Will] let the player use it with Audacity Rank 36 + 5 = 41 = More Buff Bonuses. Works on both Sides. (This Item let's player overcap the acutual Audacity Cap of 36).

Yes. This is actually by design.

* The Audacity cost is to high from 1-36 a player needs 115'000 Commendations. (maybe a little lowering this? or let Monster Player start with 24 or 25 Audacity?).

Yes. This is also by design. The total cost is ~115k for each side. Give or take the free levels that the creeps can earn currently. Free levels seems like a nice reward.

* [4 Awards of Audacity] items only for new Monsters. (All and good, but a little unfair to player's who've done the Intro already, don't you think so? Monster-Player, who've done the Intro should have these Items in Inventory).

Yep, need to make a supplemental quest for old creeps to get those freebeies too. Need to bug it.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

This is great feedback.

....

That is a fictional scenario with made up numbers that isn't reflective of reality in the slightest... but ok.

May I suggest this:

[SSG_Orion]

New audacity is insanity. CC just doesn't work. This completely destroys some of the classes.

So the CC is too high? Noted.

[SSG_Orion]

As a creep still questing for maps, I don't think maybe Orion appreciates the impossibility of questing as a lowbie on an OVERPOPULATED server. It's not's not realistic at all. We'll never generate the comms to be effective. If you think we will, you're not playing the game we are.

Where do you think I started in my return?

I get it. You're reacting to initial numbers. That's perfect. That's what we need. We need feedback, but it needs to be constructive. If you don't think I'm playing, that's fine.

I hadn't played PvMP in years...getting back in was like diving into Finnish Lakes after a sauna. I'm making adjustments and looking for feedback. Let's row in the same direction and a host of other colloquial sayings.

[SSG_Orion]

So I did some testing on my Brawler against a couple of match ups (BA,Warg,Reaver,Defiler) And the amount of damage i was doing is obscene.

Solutions:
1.Do not release tier 4 gear, because it is just an increased stat bloat that is not necessary.
2. Increase creep base stats by a large number : Mastery is at 0 on a blackarrow with zero corruptions slotted, and this is really quite unfair. If keeping tier 4 gear is necessary, then please do increase stats or when this goes live IT WILL BE UNPLAYABLE.
3. Increase Monster player morale by atleast 15% - on my Brawler with no rank buff i have 1.7million, which is more than most creeps have with a high rank bonus.

Are you saying that you took a fully kitted Brawler into the 'moors at rank 5 ish(15?) and you smashed face on a rank 0 unkitted monster player?

The CC reduction is abit too strong on Bullroarer, The Idea is good but the execution is abit too potent. Stuns after once have no duration, and some effects do not even immobilize you. Perhaps lowering this to 55% or 60% would be far more playable, than the current 90%.

Yes, I have that note.

other observations aside from the obvious :
1.Brawler rank buff does not work (no rank bonus at all)
2. Creepside has some sort of weekly quests available, which are not available on freepside
3. Freep cloak has no audacity (making it negligible to wear the rank one = wearing trigger essences in ettenmoors, further freep dps snowballing)
4. Class Items should be added (With audacity or some reason to take them > champion can use the bow from Throne and retain the fight on essence)
5. I dont know if this is planned but Dar gazag defenders are not scaled, around 20 pulled and took over a minute to kill one player,same as outposts. I assume keeps are the same.

1. Yep, is it the rank buff?
2. Players have it too - not weekly. It's a new Task available at the supplier.
3. By design.
4. No audacity, but this is not infeasible in the future - if.
5. Didn't touch DG. But that is interesting.

[SSG_Orion]

looking at these changes i may as well delete my creeps lol hunters on live can pretty much 2 -3 shot most creeps these changes properly mean 1shot is possible ( camo burn hot etc and hs) what was really needed was a buff to creeps damage output to match what freeps are capable of out there.....changes was needed for the moors to make it more balanced but this just seams to make it even worce than what we already had ( didnt think that was possible)

Specifics help more than generalizations. Others are giving me those specific though. Thank you for the feedback.

[SSG_Orion]

It's great that Monster Play is Free, but non-vip free people can only pvmp for 6 hours with 20 mithril coins. This should be reorganized and I think it is necessary to encourage the free people to pvmp. It is necessary to consider that there are players who play the game from many different countries and that they cannot buy VIP all the time.

Known issue. Will be fixed with next Bullroare release.

[SSG_Orion]

Yes, this is true. I want to make sure that any of the flame in this thread is from a bad history of PvP work in LOTRO, not directed towards Orion personally at all.

My flame defence gear is old, but strong, and I am salty old bastiche. You really cannot hurt me.

[SSG_Orion]

They're getting it from here: https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...69#post8145869

Will have to validate that but I think that Ettenmoors quests are already set up to advance if in a raid.

[Atomos]

Not sold on this. It's an interesting point and one that will be exacerbated with the move to free creepside/freepside.

Known issue. Will be fixed with next Bullroare release.

I’m a bit confused by these statements. Is freepside also becoming free to access?

I like the changes you have made because they’re heading in the right direction.

Big thank you for the much-needed communication!

[SSG_Orion]

....

That is a fictional scenario with made up numbers that isn't reflective of reality in the slightest... but ok.

May I suggest this:

Again, it's feedback. Good.

[SSG_Orion]

I’m a bit confused by these statements. Is freepside also becoming free to access?

I like the changes you have made because they’re heading in the right direction.

Big thank you for the much-needed communication!

Yes. The fix for the travel routes to the Ettenmoors requiring VIP or Mithril Coin expenditure is remove in a future Bullroarer update.

[SSG_Orion]

May I suggest this:

Also, you may suggest that, can you tell me where you both sat with Audacity and rank?

[WeirdJedi]

Yes. The fix for the travel routes to the Ettenmoors requiring VIP or Mithril Coin expenditure is remove in a future Bullroarer update.

In all the information I have read, nowhere does it say "VIP will no longer be a requirement for the Free Peoples." I mean... this is huge news. Why didn't you lead with that? Unless you are specifying that it will only be temporarily removed for Bullroarer testing.

[Intolerance]

...you still have mounts.

Yet no maps.

The consensus has always seemed to be that from a tactical standpoint...Maps>Mounts.

WL speed buff has simply increased that advantage for creep groups.

If balance is an objective, seeking parity for general movement speed/mobility would seem like a step in the right direction.

This has been floated before: disable freep mounts, give freeps access to maps that somewhat mirror creep map areas (100-200m away), reduce WL group speed buff to something similar to Hunter's FTPath...and turn everyone loose.

[J-Moneyforever]

Yet no maps.

The consensus has always seemed to be that from a tactical standpoint...Maps>Mounts.

WL speed buff has simply increased that advantage for creep groups.

If balance is an objective, seeking parity for general movement speed/mobility would seem like a step in the right direction.

This has been floated before: disable freep mounts, give freeps access to maps that somewhat mirror creep map areas (100-200m away), reduce WL group speed buff to something similar to Hunter's FTPath...and turn everyone loose.

Would prefer opposite of this. Maps have compounded the already zergy mentality that backdoors cultivated. It leads to fights being extremely concentrated because you're always a callout away from every creep coming to one spot. Would be infinitely worse if every freep could do that too. No maps at all would be a better solution and equalized movement speeds. Or perhaps fewer maps on longer CDs would be fine.

[Atomos]

Yes. The fix for the travel routes to the Ettenmoors requiring VIP or Mithril Coin expenditure is remove in a future Bullroarer update.

Awesome! Really looking forward to coming back on both sides.

I knew people who never wanted to play freepside because of the grind freep characters had compared to creeps. But likewise, I also knew people who never wanted to play creepside because they didn’t want to have to learn a whole new character that could only be played in PvMP. So I think this is a great change for both sides in order to increase PvMP population.

Also, SSG should maybe add some more PvE-related benefits for VIP in order to keep VIP still as an attractive option for all players.

[Thallaron]

Having 0 gear on except Legendary items,a good champ will beat most creeps like wargs (there are videos of it) nerf the freeps, if you guys want to take the easy way then just reduce the vitality on pvmp freep gear and do something about champion.
Nerf freeps thats a good way to start pvmp update.

[Vistusk2]

Any idea when Brawlers will get things they're missing? Currently they do not get buffs from their ranks (Battlefield Promotion), which seems to be quite an oversight. I don't know if it's also good to request it here too, but any possibility brawlers could get some things to help in the moors such as a sprint or a skill to break from slows? Currently they have no way to counter-act and get away like other classes can.

[SingularityNow]

Where do you think I started in my return?

I get it. You're reacting to initial numbers. That's perfect. That's what we need. We need feedback, but it needs to be constructive. If you don't think I'm playing, that's fine.

I hadn't played PvMP in years...getting back in was like diving into Finnish Lakes after a sauna. I'm making adjustments and looking for feedback. Let's row in the same direction and a host of other colloquial sayings.

I'm rowing with you. I didn't accuse you of not play, I said "if". I'm sorry you took it that way.

And the context was a question I was hoping you'd address: How in your opinion then would low ranks compile the audacity they require if questing is too dangerous, and leaders won't take them into groups?