Filling the Gaps: following in the footsteps of the Wildwood and the Angle

[miriadel]

let's hope it's not going to be another "mini expension" gimmick

[MiniExpBounder]

I've come across a couple of videos that shed a little more light on things. The videos show footage of the landscape between Andrath and the King's Way Gate, which is the area we've been discussing for the last couple of months. The videos predate the Angle, but not by too much, so I was able to compare the landscape as it was in these videos to the landscape as it is in game currently.

Back then, when I made the mentioned video, I thought that any lower level area would have been secondary projects just like Wildwood.

I was wrongly thinking that the focus for the next several years would have been primarly on new content for the current maximum level. It is correct that I did not foresee that the Standing Stone Games' direction was, after Gundabad, towards Eriador once more.

The present changes to Cardolan came with the release of the complete Yondershire. Before that Update, the landscape was exactly as it had been for more than a decade.
Obviously to infer that the entire Eriador landscape has now been changed is a bit too much.


The landscape of the Southern Ered Luin is already shaped as a proper coherent landscape, and it has been so since long ago.

This does not mean that it is yet part of an upcoming project: I personally think that it is just a leftover from the initial shaping of Middle-earth, a piece that ultimately has not been used.
So I expect any shape and topography to change completely when the proper content for that area will be scheduled.
(A small proof of landscape being recently tuned is the placement of the old Beta and Test settlements. If they come to be totally or partially underground or floating, or entirely removed, this is a sign of a recent change for whatever purpose).


Please note that the Terrain Map can be deceiving: the Client Data about the tiles is not automatically generated to match the in-game landscape appearance. As of now, the terrain tiles do not match with the actual appearance of the in-development landscape.

[Phantion]

Awesome stuff

I'd point out that the forest south of the Lone-Lands appears to be "new" - or at least that it came on Live post-Yondershire, indicating to me at least that they are doing active work south of Andrath, Lone-lands, and the stretch of "West Eregion" / northwest of Enedwaith - with the new area more or less covering that stretch of things (*if I appear wrong, please do correct me).

Looks like the Great South Road will be "almost complete" as the Anduin is (*Anduin is missing the "Mouths of the Entwash" cut-off between Rauros and Taur Druadan for playability; likewise, the Great South Road will be missing the Wulf's Cleft part for direct playability, "playability" meaning my character can just walk / run / ride down the road (*or swim the river)). Still, it's pretty amazing they're able to get the majority of those major "passage-ways" in-game in Middle-earth.

I'm still thrilled I can follow what I can from Gundabad down to the Bay of Belfalas and what currently can (*and perhaps this Fall, even far more so) from Fornost to Minas Morgul (*which is where the "Royal Road" actually ends; it doesn't end at Minas Tirith!!! It goes straight through Osgiliath to the Dead City itself, which is pretty neat considering where things start off at Fornost, also sacked by the Witch-King).

Cheers!

[Phantion]

Found out some more things, poking around on Bullroarer:

1- Upon careful inspection, the distant forest south of the Lone-lands --- visible from Amon Sul south of Minas Eriol and eastward south by southwest of Harloeg --- is situated at the end of a cloven valley that runs down toward the Harloeg area.

2- From various hills in the Shire, there is no new landscape development south of Green Hill Country - only the rear of those new mountains others noticed south of Brandywine Bridge / west of those marshes south of Buckland and the Old Forest. I think they are "concealing the land that will become the South Farthing for now" - my theory - rather than making any Hobbit villages and what-not visible from the southern Brandywine.

3- There appears to be some more "forest floor foliage" south of the South Gate in Andrath around the floating ruins (*that were previously floating over under-developed terrain; they are still floating, however) - and other bits of foliage on some of the distant trees on the upper western hills visible from the Thelgarth prow of the Angle.

Nothing new visible on the other fronts.

Cheers!

[Aleziana]

I want the red horn pass extensive area that we had in the new further adventures of E and E .

Perhaps a small region around 55-60 level for a small moria alternative??? I really loved that mountainus region with the narrow passages and snow everywhere.

[Jargonaut]

I've only played the new missions once, and so didn't have much time to explore/examine. Too busy getting them completed! But I did see some kind of gate/fort off in the distance in the last one. Is that possibly the outer side of something we've already seen? The whole area reminds me of the path from Kidzul-Kalah rather than either side of the Redhorn pass in Eregion/Nanduhirion. I wonder if that gate is the gate we see there.

The whole relation of the Misty Mountains to the rest of the map needs to be reworked anyway. There needs to be a path from the Troll Shaws up into the mountains that does NOT require passing through the secret, hidden vale of Imladris, for example. How 'hidden' is it if the whole world has to pass through to get across the mountains? And that path from Kidzul-Kalah needs to connect to Erforgh Cleft in the Southern High pass, not the Redhorn area. Look at the over-view map.

They ought to make more zones up there and connect things up.

[Phantion]

I've only played the new missions once, and so didn't have much time to explore/examine. Too busy getting them completed! But I did see some kind of gate/fort off in the distance in the last one. Is that possibly the outer side of something we've already seen? The whole area reminds me of the path from Kidzul-Kalah rather than either side of the Redhorn pass in Eregion/Nanduhirion. I wonder if that gate is the gate we see there.

The whole relation of the Misty Mountains to the rest of the map needs to be reworked anyway. There needs to be a path from the Troll Shaws up into the mountains that does NOT require passing through the secret, hidden vale of Imladris, for example. How 'hidden' is it if the whole world has to pass through to get across the mountains? And that path from Kidzul-Kalah needs to connect to Erforgh Cleft in the Southern High pass, not the Redhorn area. Look at the over-view map.

They ought to make more zones up there and connect things up.

Much agreed!

Or, if they absolutely - insist - on the idea that there's this "rugged" pass going from Kidzul-Kalah to the Redhorn and to Eregion ((a view I remember vaguely a blue-name saying when that Vales route was first opened)) (and I'd add, if that's the case, then there should be perhaps a back way to Shathur-manzu in the Duskenvales / Anduin) ----- then the current landscape portal is absolutely not enough! I want to see it for myself, no short cuts, if they really don't want to connect it to Erforgh Cleft (*which I think they should do anyway).

Really, we could use a Central Misties zone and a Southern Misties zone. The Central Misties would connect-up Erforgh Cleft, Kidzul-Kalah, Shathur-manzu / Duskenvales, Fanuidhol, and the Redhorn Pass.

The Southern Misties would connect-up the missing lands southwest of Nanduhirion, perhaps with very difficult, rugged passes (*like so rugged, a lone adventurer could chance it but never the Fellowship of the Ring) also connecting to Gwylion's mountain above Tal Methedras, Draigoch's mountain / the mountains of Thror's Coomb, and their equivalent mountains between Fordirith, Wind-fells, Entwood, and the missing mountains immediately due west by northwest of Wildermore, Limlight Gorge, and the Wailing Hills / south-by-southwest of Nanduhirion and the Zirakzigil Pass. It would mean a smaller Eriador equivalent connecting to a smaller Rhovanion equivalent, resulting in a combined larger zone.

---

Now, about their story problem, where they demand that the Redhorn Pass be blocked in Volume II:

A- Move the avalanche slightly higher and place a "kill-wall" there, much as with the very closed Black Gate in the Wastes. After reaching say level 120, you can complete a quest that opens up the Pass.

B- Said quest would also open a previously sealed / phased-and-invisible-walled passage collapsed by boulders while level 59 --- breaking open the Redhorn Pass only at level 120+ after completing said quest.

I still can't understand for the life of me, with their tech with "Black Gate closed" vs. "Black Gate opened," why they couldn't do something similar with the Redhorn: keeping the pass closed for Volume II for story purposes, opening the pass later post-War-of-the-Ring (*which would help with Galadriel and company returning that way also).

Cheers!

[Feral_Yoda]

I've only played the new missions once, and so didn't have much time to explore/examine. Too busy getting them completed! But I did see some kind of gate/fort off in the distance in the last one. Is that possibly the outer side of something we've already seen? The whole area reminds me of the path from Kidzul-Kalah rather than either side of the Redhorn pass in Eregion/Nanduhirion. I wonder if that gate is the gate we see there.

The whole relation of the Misty Mountains to the rest of the map needs to be reworked anyway. There needs to be a path from the Troll Shaws up into the mountains that does NOT require passing through the secret, hidden vale of Imladris, for example. How 'hidden' is it if the whole world has to pass through to get across the mountains? And that path from Kidzul-Kalah needs to connect to Erforgh Cleft in the Southern High pass, not the Redhorn area. Look at the over-view map.

They ought to make more zones up there and connect things up.

Using Terrain Map during the mission in the pass, shows the location is in the gorge below (and towards the end, actually across) from Zirikzigal. You can see the entrance to the Mirror Halls and the broken top of the Endless Stair. The ruins at the end are an arched gate. It did have a location name when i got to it the other day, but i don't recall what it was at the moment.

[Phantion]

Using Terrain Map during the mission in the pass, shows the location is in the gorge below (and towards the end, actually across) from Zirikzigal. You can see the entrance to the Mirror Halls and the broken top of the Endless Stair. The ruins at the end are an arched gate. It did have a location name when i got to it the other day, but i don't recall what it was at the moment.

Yeah, "Kamaz-kala" for both gates, which is the same name as the Orc camp in the Redhorn entrance in Azanulbizar, TA 2799 / Blood of Azog (*that Orc camp was thrashed by the Dwarves, so it probably doesn't exist in the same way, unless its actually just an older Dwarven place-name for the pass or something).

Here's my understanding: Where you start with E and E actually has "revised landscape" to it's west; you see a lot more snow and icy pathways, meaning it's probably "Eregion in winter" with a lot of snowfall. You can make-out where maybe that icy blockway was on the Eregion side.

Correct: What the pass winds through is that long, narrow valley below Moria's Zirakzigil. It's actually a continuity error. Durin's Tower should be intact - as the Balrog hasn't fallen yet, nor Gandalf, as Elrohir and Elladan set out on their adventure before the Fellowship leaves Rivendell. What I'd like to see is a modified Mirror Halls' entrance not drawn from a falling tower shard - and to actually see Durin's Tower in its pre-broken glory . . . It's a similar problem in Blood of Azog, where the Tower should be standing while instead it's still the broken shards of the broken tower; the broken tower shards mean the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog has already happened - when both Blood of Azog and the adventures of E-E are set in times before that fight.

So, I'd like them to please correct that. It would be like finding a collapsed Barad-dur in Second Age "Mordor Besieged"; it doesn't make much sense.

Now, where you saw where the pass lets out with that other arch, we need to think about the Blood of Azog landscape. In Blood of Azog, you can climb a bit further up the pass to Kamaz-kala, and from there, you can see a blockade leading up to a great slope. To my understanding, the archway would be in the landscape that's hidden beyond that upper slope in Blood of Azog.

If we were traveling in the pass in the game-world, currently impossible, here's what I'd imagine that would look like:

A- The Eregion portion where you climb past the frozen Dwarf. These lands are frozen in the E&E instance.
B- The valley we actually travel in the instance, below Zirakzigil.
C- When crossing through the second arch, going down the slope to the barricaded area in Blood of Azog with the Kamaz-kala Orc camp, before winding down to the area that's blocked in Nanduhirion, TA 3019, with the "Fallen Ice."
D- Now on the 3019 Volume II Moria / Lothlorien maps, going down from the Fallen Ice and down the path above Mirrormere before winding down in front of the Gates of Moria and then out past Durin's Stone to Lothlorien proper.

Somehow, there's the odd path to Vales of Anduin that has no indications of its existence near the Moria mountains on the 3019 Rhovanion map. That component, they haven't really clarified beyond the portals by Gladdenmere and above the avalanche in Eregion.

Cheers!

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

This gives me hope that a Misties connector zone is going to be making an appearance!

This zone would be in Rhovanion (where the Zirakzigil zone is), and I envisage it starting at Amdan in the south, leading up to the path to Zirakzigil (that is talked about in the deeds, but never quite reached). This would connect (via landscape, rather than a portal) to the Zirakzigil zone, which would also have a path leading down to the Redhorn Pass (from the Further Adventures instance). Back on the Nanduhirion side, the path up via the Fallen Ice would link up to the Redhorn Pass. in the west, this would be connected up by a portal in the ice cave that can be found near the dead dwarf in Eregion.

Then, going further north across the Silvertine (I think that's the name of the river, but now doubting myself!), the zone would skirt around the bottom of Caradhras and connect up near the bat-tower on the north side of the Mirromere (apologies for forgetting the name again!). This would also stretch south-west to Fanuidhol, connecting to the orc infested region on the borders of Lothlorien.

In theory, these could all be part of either a Zirakzigil or expanded Nanduhirion map. However, I'd also like to see this area stretch north to the Gladdenmere, to finally make sense of that strange connection to Eregion. It could then also have a portal to the west to connect up with the southern High Pass.

As for content, I'm sure there are plenty of orc based stories to tell!

[Jargonaut]

Well, yes, there is one very scary 'orc-based' story to be told, it's referenced in those new missions. I wonder if they would dare to do the actual story of Celebrian's capture and torture by the orcs. It would be tricky. The devs like to hang those confinement cages all over the place to make goblins and orcs look nasty, but those corpses are long dead. I don't think we would ever see living people in those cages suffering from their inability to move. It would be too gruesome. Depicting other situations of actual torture also seems too strong for the game's intended audience. If our characters, or 'session play' characters, would participate in the actual rescue they would have to work around the actual suffering of the captives, I think.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Well, yes, there is one very scary 'orc-based' story to be told, it's referenced in those new missions. I wonder if they would dare to do the actual story of Celebrian's capture and torture by the orcs. It would be tricky. The devs like to hang those confinement cages all over the place to make goblins and orcs look nasty, but those corpses are long dead. I don't think we would ever see living people in those cages suffering from their inability to move. It would be too gruesome. Depicting other situations of actual torture also seems too strong for the game's intended audience. If our characters, or 'session play' characters, would participate in the actual rescue they would have to work around the actual suffering of the captives, I think.

They could go for this story, but I rather think they've done it already - the Shatha-murz story in Duskenvale covers this (other than showing us the actual events), and now the adventures of Elrohir and Elladan have been retrofitted to act as a prelude to this story.

[Phantion]

They could go for this story, but I rather think they've done it already - the Shatha-murz story in Duskenvale covers this (other than showing us the actual events), and now the adventures of Elrohir and Elladan have been retrofitted to act as a prelude to this story.

Yeah. I'd still want them to flesh-out that "rugged pass" from Gladdenmere to Caradhras though; neither quest-line does a very good job at explaining - how - these Orcs got poor Celebrian to the wargs in Shathar-manzu - all the way out there in the Duskenvales - without running into Lothlorien or encountering the Galadhrim on their way.

Honestly, that's still a big missing piece of that tale for me- and maybe covering just Celebrian's capture and rescue would be worth it. I mean, we got to see a tormented Frodo in Cirith Ungol after all, and we experienced Sam's rescue of him. So, it can't be that bad to have a more "sanitized" version of it.

But geographically, it really makes no sense to me. I mean: I always just assumed from the text that Celebrian was taken into some part of Moria through some goblin-hole --- right near Caradhras --- where the Sons of Elrond rescued her, and we know the West and East Gates weren't the only ways in there thanks to what Tolkien wrote to account for Gollum slipping out of Moria without running into the Balrog or the Bridge, broken or otherwise.

So, as far as "filling in the gaps" goes, I'd still say that's definitely a gap. I want to know by what way those Orcs got Celebrian all the way near the Great River - and, frankly, to add a little more to it: how in the world the Dwarves got Mazog out to the Mirk-eaves without going - through - Lothlorien in Volume II. That's another gap in my book; did they go via the Great Way south of the Blood of Azog ruins? Did they cross the river in Thinglad and go north from there? That's another head-scratcher! *Laughs!*

I'd just want to see more game geography actually showing me how their storytelling works some more in those tight spots rather than "assuming" there's "just some way out there." I'd say that missing chunk of landscape between Lothlorien, Wailing Hills, Nanduhirion, Entwood, Wildermore, and Limlight Gorge is another gap worth filling up a bit.

---

To the thread in general, here's what I'm finding with current gaps - between - currently existing landscapes:

1- Between Forochel and Angmar

2- Between Forochel, Evendim, Ered Luin, and northwestern Yondershire.

3- Between Dol Dinen / the lands immediately east of the Moors / south of Angmar and north of the Lone-lands.

4- Between the North Trollshaws and the Misties (*absolutely agree with those suggesting the Great Road should have a different bend so that Rivendell is a proper hidden refuge)

5- The little bit of land between the Fields of Fornost and the Wildwood.

6- The land between Desollad and Pend Eregion (*just impassable mountains; maybe they stay that way though).

7- The area between Eregion and the Angle (*seems in development for a new update).

8- The Caradhras mess between avalanches, hidden passes, story problems, etc.; I'll include here between Gladdenmere and Caradhras on the Rhovanion side.

9- The lands between Lothlorien, Entwood, Wildermore, Limlight Gorge, Wailing Hills, and Nanduhirion.

10- The lands between Southern Mirkwood and the Brown-lands; between the Brown-lands and the East Wall on the eastern side of the Great River.

11- The lands between Felegoth / Eryn Lasgalen and Ered Mithrin on a direct north-south axis - and also, by extension, between the northern Dale-lands and Misthallow / Wells of Langflood.

12- The lands between Ered Mithrin, Erebor, and the Iron Hills to the north and northeast of Erebor.

13- Wouldn't it be nice to have an actual Ered Nimrais zone in Gondor like the Misties in Eriador --- following from Boromir's words about the passes of the White Mountains?

Those are pretty much all I can think of till more landscape's fleshed-out between Bree and Enedwaith and closer toward Lindon on the Ered Luin side / Northern Ered Luin, southward toward Harondor and westward toward the Andrast coast in Gondor, toward the coastal lands more broadly in Eriador, and more toward Rhun in Rhovanion, as well as fleshing out the rest of Mordor. But those are more wider, continent-level developments than gaps between existing places. It'll be very exciting to see where things develop next!

Cheers!

[seekingerin]

Huh. I watched the Q&A Severlin did today, and he said that the next update would be centered around "an alternate levelling experience that will go from 1 to 30." I assume this is still the Royal Road area; the only thing Severlin said that makes me think it might not be is that it would "probably [be] the size of War of Three Peaks." He may have been underestimating the size of the new area, though, or perhaps he could have been thinking about the number of quests? Or maybe he was lumping all versions of the War of Three Peaks map together. In any case, considering how far along the development on the Royal Road area seems to be and its proximity to the starter areas, and the fact that it's probably an appropriate size to support 30 levels of lower-level content, I'm guessing this is the area he had in mind.

We've debated what level range the new area would likely be oriented toward; I have to say, I did NOT expect it to be a level 1-30 area. Honestly, though, a 1-30 area might work well there, though. Saruman and his brigands are at the height of their power; the evil gooblies in and around the Barrow Downs and the Old Forest have been stirred up by the passing of the Nazgul; we could potentially encounter story threads relating to Isengard, Angmar, and Mordor; we're likely to encounter elves, hobbits, Bree-Landers, and rangers, and they could easily work in a dwarven settlement as well; this is probably an area of the world that's relevant to the Amazon show and that could touch on a lot of Second-Age stories, which would be nice for new players brought in by the show; we'll still be close to other low-level areas; they could have a lot of open connections to the Bree-Lands and Lone-Lands without having to worry about players being put in danger; it would set players up nicely for the Trollshaws, Misty Mountains, and Eregion; and there's plenty of room to expand to the southward if they want to continue to use southern Eriador as an alternate levelling path.

My biggest concern is that they're continuing to neglect endgame players. Severlin mentioned a new skirmish, a new 6-man, and the ability to adjust difficulty settings and earn more relevant gear, and he mentioned that there would likely be a new raid early next year; he also apologized, acknowledged that neglecting the endgame was a mistake, and promised that the following update would focus on endgame content. It's not great for endgame-focused players, but I'm glad they're at least acknowledging the problem and planning to add to the endgame soon.

They also continued to tease another big something for the summer, but they still aren't saying what it is. So that's still out there.

[miriadel]

smells like mini expansion.

thing is, it is already possible to get to 30 by afk farming in just a few hours, and even levelling normally, one can outlevel the early areas pretty fast. I would never counsel a new player to buy the stone of the tortoise. So as much as I love to have new landscape to explore, I feel like this 1-30 area is a waste of money and dev time, which could have been better spent on endgame which is stagnating and many are unhappy about it. A 6 man and a skirmish is not enough

[wispsong]

smells like mini expansion.

thing is, it is already possible to get to 30 by afk farming in just a few hours, and even levelling normally, one can outlevel the early areas pretty fast. I would never counsel a new player to buy the stone of the tortoise. So as much as I love to have new landscape to explore, I feel like this 1-30 area is a waste of money and dev time, which could have been better spent on endgame which is stagnating and many are unhappy about it. A 6 man and a skirmish is not enough

We have so much 1-50 content that we really don't need more in that level range. I like the new areas but rarely play them on high level characters. We need 50-100 content because there isn't any easy way to avoid Moria and we have to play through at least parts of Rohan. I will not make a new character for this new 1-30 area before we get River-hobbits or any other new race. While I understand that they want to connect the world, they should be over all the level ranges to offer alternatives.

[provamail10]

If the new landscape is roughly the size of War of Three Peaks, then I would not expect more than the Swanfleet and Eregion Tales of Yore for attracting players from the TV series. It's a pity they keep releasing 1-50 lv content when there's no alternative to Moria.

[Phantion]

I guess the confusion I have here is whether the new level 1-30 content and the "War of the Three Peaks"-sized new area are the same content or not- whether they are the same region / update or whether they are separate updates, and whether one of them is level-cap or not.


It's not making sense to me so far.

I mean, in theory: we have to remember precisely how much content it takes to get from level 1 - 30 in Eriador alone: The Intro / Prologue, Ered Luin / Shire / Archet-and-Combe-and-Chetwood ---> the rest of Bree-land - Lone-Lands - parts of North Downs and Evendim and Trollshaws.

So you can't really fit all of that leveling-wise into an area that's just Elderslade times 2 (*which is what WoTP is). Elderslade is comparatively small both in landscape and quest-content - and so is the War version of it. Even the Minas Morgul expansion could only fit 5 levels in Imlad Morgul; the other 5 levels were in Mordor Besieged, and that was 10 levels altogether.

Granted, you tend to gain more exp earlier, and so its less quests than stuff closer to the cap- but its still a sizeable amount when you add it all together.

So that tells me the level 1-30 region is probably that mega-chunk of landscape south of Bree / northwest of Eregion and Enedwaith.

---

Which then begs another question. You see, Eregion IS closer to the size of Elderslade when you really mentally compare the two landscapes. I could see a "pre-Fall Eregion" as the Elderslade equivalent and a "Tales of Yore During-the-Fall / War Eregion" as the WotP equivalent. That would make all the sense in the world!

You'd have the "peace-time" version with all the settled cities, especially in the Mirobel area, and maybe even a glimpse of pre-Fall Moria in an instance or something; then the "war-time" version with Sauron attacking.

Of course, they could always pull something similar with some of the Numenorean stuff way back when in the Cardolan history.

Anyways, still --- all of that above is idle speculation. It just depends on whether there's 1 or 2 new areas coming as I can't see them fitting levels 1-30 in just a "War of the Three Peaks" sized area... can anyone clarify?

Cheers!

[gildhur]

I guess the confusion I have here is whether the new level 1-30 content and the "War of the Three Peaks"-sized new area are the same content or not- whether they are the same region / update or whether they are separate updates, and whether one of them is level-cap or not.

I'm guessing the new 1-30 leveling experience is new content in existing areas. Severlin mentioned something about talking to old friends in a different way.

Which then begs another question. You see, Eregion IS closer to the size of Elderslade when you really mentally compare the two landscapes. I could see a "pre-Fall Eregion" as the Elderslade equivalent and a "Tales of Yore During-the-Fall / War Eregion" as the WotP equivalent. That would make all the sense in the world!

That would be an incredible thing and also tie in brilliantly to Rings of Power this fall, which should explore the same area.

[itshuntah31]

I'm guessing the new 1-30 leveling experience is new content in existing areas. Severlin mentioned something about talking to old friends in a different way.



That would be an incredible thing and also tie in brilliantly to Rings of Power this fall, which should explore the same area.

Old friends don't have to be located in the same old places. If we're traveling along the Royal Road by Tharbad, our path and Boromir's could totally cross, and our journey with him could be a significant part of the leveling experience. Then, for whatever reason, we turn to the west towards Bree while he goes to Rivendell.

[Valather89]

You guys might want to check reddit for some leaks.

I knew it was coming but I'm so hyped.

[TesalionLortus]

Thanks, found it
Hmm so it makes me wonder whether they actually connected the entire Northern border between Breeland Homestaeds and Lonelands and beyond (at parts) so it's a seamless open world. I really hope it's not just Andrath Gate and "to the Lonelands" road that are the only viable entry points, please no, it would be a bit ridiculous given how everything between Homestad and Lonelands were gentle hills you can actually climb on except you run into invisible wall. So fingers crossed it's impressively open-world. Also, can't really figure out from that map but fingers crossed they opened up the Southern gate in the old dwarven ruins occupied by Dourhands (in Lonelands). Seriously, such impressive world Eriador has become! In all directions there are miles to go literally, I guess nothing like it in other chunks of the landmass

But in terms of levels I dunno. If that's the 1-30 "alternative experience" they mentioned... I can understand them wanting to provide the full range, in theory, and yet... it would be super off. Like, even Lonelands is 22-35 and Trallshaws is 35-40 (Angle 40 - 45 and it would feed directly into that new area with Swanfleet). Heck, even Breeland is like 1-24 so it takes you almost to 30... so if Cardolan was like 1 or 10 lvl mobs and quests that would be super off because let's say brigand storylines and such takes you towards Cardolan and then what...? Suddenly it's like you're back in a starter zone and that's a hostile, abandoned territory (mentioned as dangerous with Boromir in lore) so kind of contradictory. A higher lvl range would have worked better (and is needed more).

Unless... they talk about something else entirely for 1-30 and Cardolan is lvl cap with inni that they mentioned??? But reddit user stated it's 1-30 so I guess it is? If that's the case and is done like every other zone (linear storytelling with quest hubs) something tells me they're not completely aware of what should be done to really spice up the journey. Because that would still be "go to first quest hub in Lonelands or first quest hub in Cardolan (where you'll deal with content 1-20 first so hardly gaining exp), not much of a free-roaming choice overall (despite how amazingly connected Eriador will be now) and no true freedom of replayability. Amazing addition to be sure, even if just for the landmass value and storytelling, but hardly solves the problem I was talking about here

[miriadel]

it's no Harad nor Nurn, but Swanfleet especially was another place I really wanted to visit, so I'm happy-ish. (even if it is no Moria alternative but we knew that already........ sadly)

[provamail10]

Cardolan seems huge: I never thought they would go all the way from Sarn Ford to Tharbad. I wish it was level cap.

I wonder if they will release both Cardolan and the Swanfleet at once. Cardolan has the size of an expansion, whereas the Swanfleet is only a subzone of Eregion. We'll see.


In case you haven't seen the maps:

https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...e-Thread/page5

[LagunaD2]

Cardolan seems huge: I never thought they would go all the way from Sarn Ford to Tharbad.

Sarn Ford to Tharbad is about as far as Michel Delving to the Brandywine Bridge, or Helm's Deep to Isengard; both four-minute horse rides.

It's a decent-sized zone, but I wouldn't say "huge".