Warden Changes and Feedback

[Elwha]

It have lots to do with Determination. Fist gamibts/ especialy war cry will be your "spamable gambit" as blue wrd in u35. Both for agro / because its your only 10 targets gambits after BoV downscaled to 6 targets, and for applying aoe dmg debuff /look at Suppresion yellow tree
Even on live fist gambits are big part of warden rotation. Saying they are not shows much.
Aslo why you ask this now ? it was always like this. Both blue and red trees get light dmg buff talent. Wich stacks and are not problem to get them both. You want then to delete one and get 20% nerf ? Or you are rly that naive to think they give ANY tree a talent with 40% buff to any dmg type ? (not temporaly)


With silly change to out taunt, you will need any extra bit of dmg to keep agro.

Be happy with what you have and think twice before giving them ideas

Your comments come off as gibberish and to me don't make any sense. It appears you made a bunch of assumptions and didn't really think about what I was suggesting. My comments for the dev, not you, so please, stay in your lane.

[Plidak]

Your comments come off as gibberish and to me don't make any sense. It appears you made a bunch of assumptions and didn't really think about what I was suggesting. My comments for the dev, not you, so please, stay in your lane.

Assumptions? Gibberish ?
You suggest more unnesesery changes, while zero awarenes of how class work.
Im not suprised that my explanation make no sense to you.

[Elwha]

Assumptions? Gibberish ?
You suggest more unnesesery changes, while zero awarenes of how class work.
Im not suprised that my explanation make no sense to you.

The class doesn't work one way or just YOUR WAY. Done here, troll along if you wish. I'll continue to provide feedback.

[Plidak]

The class doesn't work one way or just YOUR WAY. Done here, troll along if you wish. I'll continue to provide feedback.

The class work only Devs way, and they gather feedbacks from ppl who use words like "gibberish" and call other ppl trolls.
All i told you that those skils are there for reason. They are not there from u35. They were/are there on live.
If you dont know how dmg tanks work, then its your problem. Warden and champ were always dps tanks. Thats why they need dmg boost even in their tank lines. Because unlike other tanks, their taunts are limited, aslo not much efective. Sugesting removing dmg boost from blue line, show how less exp you have with warden. You are key masher who want to have all dps boost talents in one tree so to pick best of the best, giving a sh/t about lines and specs you dont play.
Such players get zero respect.
If you had experience with your class, my first post wont appear trollish or jiberish to you.
I dont blame you for your lack of such, just dont title me with troll and other bs pls.
Have fun with the game

]The class doesn't work one way or just YOUR WAY.

I disagree with ONE of your lines, and YOU tell me this ?

Right....

[OmnisFenrir]

Enjoying a lot of the changes, but I did have a couple of notes I wanted to make in light of everything...

Traceries
Does the Ambush Run Speed thing need to still be a thing? I'd love to see it be an In Combat Short Term Run Speed Buff added to a skill somewhere.
I enjoy the Buff and Debuff Duration Traceries, though they feel only barely impactful even at their Gold Tiers. Would still slot them though, just wish it was adding a bit to each buff in perhaps a % way, or a higher base number I suppose.

Skills
Never Surrender
Not a fan of the Never Surrender change. I definitely get wanting to ditch the double dip that we have atm, but trying to predict your death is always such a pain. You could just potentially catch 2 unexpected RNG crits in a row and boom.

If I were to offer a suggestion that would fit both, why not make Never Surrender a toggle effect, where as when the restoration effect triggers, THAT is when the Cooldown begins.

Turn it on and leave it alone, but you can no longer double dip. You could even keep the Tracery the same for the most part, or augment it with some CD Reduction. Have something like Blue Line = 3m CD traited, -60s on a gold tracery for 2m, than have Red be 5m = 4m CD with the same tracery. Idk, just something I was thinking about, prefer the current version where I don't have yet another mini mechanic to juggle based on some RNG.

First Aid
Personally I'd love to see this skill be a lot more useful. Either a tracery to make have a shorter CD or the ability to clear more than 1 or something. Right now this is actually probably one of the things that actually annoy me most often playing Warden.

Warning Shot
This one bugged or..? If not I'd be hard pressed unless absolutely necessary to use it with an enemy buff on it.

Love the animation changes overall, weird choice to change up Brink of Victory's AoE but eh...

Traits
Fellowship Protector
Feels not great honestly, especially for a capstone. Tanking on Warden I almost always have my mits capped already, so having something that's throwing more out feels needless, basically just very little impact.

Way of the Shield
Also, after the tuning from Beta 1, this one feels wrenched down too far. It's minor utility now, rather than something with some meat on it.

The Overall Critical Defense Loss was also much heavier than I anticipated.

End Note
Pre-Combat Buff Dancing
I've been tanking with Warden since....Mirkwood or so. I'd love some way to just condense our Pre-Combat Buff Dancing into a smaller timeframe. An out of combat tank buff skill if you were that just flipped it on for the start, not even just for myself, but to speed up those like long wind ups going into combat. I mean does anyone really enjoy needing to stand around with their food buffs and everything running down for 30s or so before every pull? Might just be a personal thing I'd love to see happen at some point though maybe just wishful thinking.

[Plidak]

First Aid
Personally I'd love to see this skill be a lot more useful. Either a tracery to make have a shorter CD or the ability to clear more than 1 or something. Right now this is actually probably one of the things that actually annoy me most often playing Warden.

For me the most annoying thig is battle preparation buffs cast on blue line.
ALL bosses have 1-5 min RP chitchat, and you need to keep buffs up.
Ar you wait raid to pull, but smth happen, they delay/discus/etc and you spam battle prep and you reaply all X buffs you need before get in combat. And now with u35 we get some extra prep buffs....

Il love to see such buffs effect staying if not permanently /out of combat ofc/ to atleast with 5min duration timer / which is reduced to skills original duration once you enter combat. Or for god sake, atleast remove skill animation while casted with prep for battle buff on. 1/2 of the buffs are gone until i done swinging and dancing around ...

Im sure lots if not all of ppl who play blue warden will love to see such change.

One can dream right ...

And about first aid, they can remove ON target use, and give us 1 extra efect removal / in blue atleast

Warning Shot
This one bugged or..? If not I'd be hard pressed unless absolutely necessary to use it with an enemy buff on it.

Na is not. Sadly. Its intended /for SOME reason....

Also il like to hear your opinion about the crit defence loss. We lost like 40% compared to live (62%vs20%)

[Lyonitis]

Gambit Chains and Advanced Technique

Gambit Chains
Gambit Chains will be staying with the class, but they will become a little more flexible.
Gambit chains are now a sequence of 4 gambits. Any gambit other than a potency gambit will count, and neither the gambit's type nor length matters.
Gambit chains are now unlocked automatically at level 30, at which point you will also earn 'The Way of the Spear' which allows you to cash out Advanced Technique earned from completing chains.
The only exception to this rule will be potency gambits (Deft Strike, Defensive Strike, and Goad) which will not contribute towards gambit chains. Gambits cast from Battle Memory do count, however.


Advanced Technique
Several new Warden skills will be ‘normal’ skills bound by cooldowns, rather than gambit skills requiring builders. These skills will have short, strong effects and moderate cooldown times. However, rather than being freely available at full strength, some will have their potency driven by Advanced Technique. Both Desperate Combat and For the Free Peoples will consume all of your Advanced Technique when used, and will become stronger with each additional Advanced Technique consumed when the skill fires.
And how will you earn Advanced Technique? You’ll receive one count every time you complete a gambit chain, up to three maximum, until they are either consumed by a skill or you leave combat.

Gambits

A note about gambits: In general, we’ve done away with the notion of gambits having different effects in Assailment. Assailment will make all the usual gambits work at range like you’re used to, but there’s no reason for a melee gambit to have a DoT while its ranged version doesn’t. Especially in cases like Unerring Strike, which currently applies nearly-identical (but stacking, because they are technically different) DoTs in its two versions, this is needlessly confusing for players. In the future, if a gambit has an effect while ‘In the Fray’ it should have the same effect while ‘Assailment’ is active.
Additionally, to maintain parity, no gambits will be locked behind a specific specialization, and no gambits will have longer-than normal cooldowns. That means Shield Mastery and Shield Tactics will always be available, and Shield Tactics will no longer have a 10-second cooldown.




Spear Gambits
¤ Gambit Sequence: Offensive Strike through Unseen Strikes
Gambits in this sequence have improved initial skill damage, and deal damage to multiple targets in front of you.

Offensive Strike
Offensive Strike no longer has a morale-tap. It is now a frontal AoE dealing moderate direct damage.

Combination Strike
Combination Strike is now a frontal AoE dealing moderate direct damage.

Boar’s Rush
Boar’s Rush is now a frontal AoE dealing moderate direct damage.

New: Unseen Strikes
Unseen Strikes is now a targeted attack, striking your current target and two nearby enemies, while consuming all damaging effects from War Cry, Brink of Victory, Surety of Death, or Desolation on each target to deal bonus damage. This will effectively ‘cash out’ most of your AoE light-damage DoTs.


¤ Gambit Sequence: The Boot through Cauterizing Steel
Gambits in this sequence have greatly improved initial skill damage and will only deal damage to your current target.

Onslaught
Onslaught deals strong damage to a single target. It will no longer interrupt your target.

Wall of Steel
Wall of Steel deals strong damage to a single target. It will no longer interrupt your target. It will no longer give you a parry buff.

Cauterizing Steel
Cauterizing Steel deals strong damage to a single target and consumes any physical bleeds from the Power Attack - Unerring Strike gambit sequence to deal bonus damage.

¤ Gambit Sequence: Power Attack through Unerring Strike
Gambits in this sequence apply physical (Wound type) bleeds which match the damage type of your main-hand weapon. These bleeds are strong, and have a longer base duration than your other Damage over Time effects. These gambits will no longer act as a discrete gambit chain. That is, Power Attack will no longer make your target temporarily weak to Mighty Blow, and Mighty Blow will no longer make your target temporarily weak to Unerring Strike.


Adroit Manoeuvre
The buff from Adroit Manoeuvre will also give you a small amount of Finesse rating.

Warden’s Triumph
The buff from Warden’s Triumph will increase both Melee and Ranged Damage, and will also add +1 pulse to all of your damage over time effects.



Shield Gambits
¤ Gambit Sequence: Persevere through Restoration
Persevere will give you a minor buff, but otherwise this sequence is entirely focused on personal healing.

Persevere
Persevere’s buff no longer gives Block and Partial Block rating, and now gives 2.5% Incoming Healing instead. It retains its heal over time.

Safeguard
Safeguard has lsot its Block and Partial Block buff. It will retain its heal over time.

Celebration of Skill
Celebration of Skill has lost its Block, Partial Block, and Incoming Healing buff. It will gain an instant morale heal (stronger initial healing than your other HoT-based gambits, but with less overall healing value.

New: Shield Up
Shield Up will give you a buff with Block rating and -2% Incoming Ranged and Tactical Damage.

Shield Mastery
Shield Mastery will give you a Block rating buff.

Impressive Flourish
Impressive Flourish has lost its DoT effect. The buff from Impressive Flourish no longer gives its old stats; instead, it now gives a Parry rating buff.

Maddening Strike
Maddening Strike will give you an Evade rating buff.

Dance of War
Dance of War will give you a buff with Physical Mitigation rating and Evade rating.

Conviction
Conviction will give you a buff with Tactical Mitigation rating and Evade rating. Conviction will still apply a HoT to you and your fellows.

Readied Blade
Shield Up will give you a buff with Parry rating and -2% Incoming Melee Damage.

Shield Tactics
Shield Tactics will give you a buff with Critical Defence rating and Tactical Mitigation rating. It will also still give you temporary Stun Immunity.
This skill will have a 1s cooldown, like other gambit skills. The Stun Immunity effect already has a cooldown, so there’s no reason for this gambit to have a cooldown as well.



Fist Gambits
Goad
Goad has lost its damage over time effect.

¤ Gambit Sequence: Precise Blow through Spear of Fate
Gambits in this sequence will apply Light-damage DoTs to your current target. These DoT effects will pulse at a slightly faster rate than your other DoTs, and will not be cleansable, so monster players will not be able to remove them by using potions or skills.

New: Spear of Fate
Spear of Fate will apply a short, potent damage over time effect, dealing light damage to your target. This DoT have a weaker pulse and shorter overall duration than the DoT applied by Spear of Virtue, but will pulse at a higher frequency, doing greater damage in a shorter period.

¤ Gambit Sequence: War Cry through Desolation
Gambits in this sequence will apply Light-damage DoTs to a group of enemies. These effects will be weaker than your single-target effects. These DoT effects will be the ‘Cry’ resistance type, so monster players will be able to remove them.

War Cry
War Cry no longer gives you an Evade rating buff.

Brink of Victory
Brink of Victory no longer gives you an Evade rating buff.

Surety of Death
Surety of Death no longer gives you an Evade rating buff.

Desolation
Desolation no longer applies a Miss Chance debuff or a Fear effect to targets.

New: Deflection
Deflection will reduce how threatening you are to a group of enemies immediately.

Resounding Challenge
Resounding Challenge has adopted the effect it currently has in Assailment, dealing AoE damage and applying a DoT to any enemies hit. When specialized in the Determination tree, it will also increase your threat over time.

Skills

Blue (Skills)
Restorative Shield-work
This skill no longer requires Advanced Technique. When used, it's potency will be equivalent to what was formerly achieved by using the skill with max AT.
When used, this skill gives 5 charges. While you have at least one tier remaining, you will gain +50% Partial Block chance and +25% Partial Block Mitigation. Each time you’re hit (up to once per second) one tier will be removed, healing you for 10% of your morale.

Desperate Combat
This skill will consume all of your Advanced Technique, transforming this skill for 30 seconds, and giving you a number of skill uses equal to the number of Advanced Technique consumed. Desperate Combat would have 3 possible versions (spear, shield, or fist) depending on your last gambit-type used. You could use more than one type of Desperate Combat skill by using different gambit types in between uses of Desperate Combat.
Desperate Spear: Strong AoE frontal damage, which applies a short debuff increasing the target’s incoming damage. This is a 5% incoming damage effect, and its duration stacks, so using Desperate Spear multiple times in a row will increase the duration of the effect considerably.
Desperate Shield: Weak AoE frontal damage, which applies a force taunt enemies in front of you and heals you for each target hit.
Desperate Fist: Moderate AoE damage, which stuns enemies in front of you.

For the Free Peoples
For the Free Peoples will no longer require you to use gambit builders to tier up its effect. Instead, it will immediately consume all of your Advanced Technique, instantly giving you and your fellowship a buff reducing incoming damage. Your personal damage reduction will be stronger than the group-wide effect, and the potency of both will scale depending on the number of Advanced Technique consumed.

Never Surrender
Never Surrender is now a limited-time skill. Using it will give you the Never Surrender effect you know and love, but with a few changes: the effect only lasts for 20 seconds, its health restoration will only trigger if you fall below 5% morale, and it gives you a short mitigation buff for a period after the heal is triggered.
Its base cooldown has been reduced to 5 minutes, and the blue-line trait reduces it a further 3 minutes (to a 2m expected cooldown for tanks) meaning you'll be able to use it much more frequently (though not back to back).

Red (Skills)
Shield Piercer
The Shield Piercer skill has been removed.

Recklessness
This skill no longer consumes Advanced Technique. It gives you a slightly stronger buff than the zero-AT version in Bullroarers 1 & 2.

Yellow (Skills)
Javelin of Deadly Force
Javelin of Deadly Force would be essentially unchanged, except that it would also apply the Marked and Diminished debuffs to any enemies hit. This would give you an infrequent way to apply both debuffs immediately to clusters of mobs.

Snap Shot: Javelins
Rather than give copies of every javelin skill, this effect will reset your javelin skill cooldowns. The list of affected skills will also be a bit slimmer, due to having fewer javelin skills overall: Ambush, Hampering Javelin, Javelin of Deadly Force, and Warning Shot (if specialized in Determination).

The Way of the Spear
The Way of the Spear is a self-buff skill with a 10-second cooldown. The skill will be one of three variants depending on the type of your last gambit used (Spear, Shield, or Fist). All three variants will consume all of your Advanced Technique, granting you a buff for 10 seconds, the potency of which depends on the number of Advanced Technique consumed. This skill now requires at least one Advanced Technique to be used. When consuming the maximum of 3, the buffs granted will be:
The Way of the Spear: +24% Initial Gambit Damage
The Way of the Shield: +12% Gambit Healing
The Way of the Fist: +6% Damage over Time

Rapid Techniques
Rapid Techniques is a self-buff skill which gives your masteries zero cooldown for 6 seconds and reduces your power costs during that period. The skill has a 90-second cooldown.



Javelin Skills
Ambush
Ambush no longer requires you to be out of combat to use. It still retains its induction, unless you have the Adroit Ambush trait and have used Adroit Manoeuvre in combat before using Ambush.

Marked Target, Diminished Target, Shield Piercer, Critical Strike, Wages of Fear, and Dodge This!
These javelin skills will all be removed. With so many gambits having Assailment versions, there’s simply no need to have so many instant javelin skills, which generally do insignificant damage and whose significant secondary effects will now be delivered through gambits.

Traits

Blue (Traits)
Gambit builders will no longer give stacking, partial BPE buffs. Gambits will no longer have a 10% chance for applying minor buffs.
Specializing in the Determination tree will grant the ‘Restorative Shield-work’ skill, in addition to ‘Warning Shot.’

Thrill of Battle
This trait will increase both morale-tap damage and morale-tap healing.

Shield Mastery
This trait will add 5% Physical Mitigation to the Shield Mastery buff and 5% Tactical Mitigation to the Shield Tactics buff. Both gambits will be available without specializing in the Determination tree.

Elegant Finish
Rather than adding specific bonuses to individual gambits, this trait now gives you a -Incoming Damage buff when tiering up or cashing out Advanced Technique.

Shield Tactics
This trait will give each of your Shield gambit buffs improved or additional bonuses.
+5% Incoming Healing from Persevere
+5% Partial Parry from Impressive Flourish
+5% Partial Evade and +5% Threat Generation from Maddening Strike
+5% Damage Reduction from Shield Up and Readied Blade
+3% Mitigations from Dance of War and Conviction

Revel in Combat
This trait effect has been replaced by the new skill ‘Desperate Combat.’
______________________________ __________
War Cry
This trait gives 2-10% fist gambit damage.

Careful Shield-work
This trait gives 1-5% ranged damage reduction to the Shield Up gambit buff.

Careful Blade-work
This trait gives 1-5% melee damage reduction to the Readied Blade gambit buff.

Defiance
This trait has been removed. The 5% mitigations formerly gained by using Defiant Challenge with this trait are effectively moving to Shield Mastery and Shield tactics while you are specialized in the Determination tree.

Impressive Flourish
This trait has been removed.

Unassailable
This trait’s effect has been replaced by 3 ranks giving you +2-10 seconds of extra duration for your buffs.

Counter-attack
This trait has been removed.

Indefatigable
This trait has been replaced by 5 ranks giving +5-25% Shield-gambit healing.

Thick Skin
This trait has been replaced by 4 ranks which improve the potency of your 2-length gambits.

Fear No Darkness
This trait would improve both morale-tap damage and morale-tap healing.

Fellowship Protector
This trait now causes you to pulse a fellowship-wide damage reduction effect when you spend a maximum-tier (3) Advanced Technique.


Red (Traits)
Gambit builders will no longer give a stacking melee damage buff. Gambits will no longer have a 10% chance for applying minor buffs.
The specialization effect with reduces your Outgoing Healing by 50% has become an effect which reduces your gambit-skill healing specifically, rather than your base Outgoing Healing stat.
Recklessness no longer grants you the Shield Piercer javelin skill.

Unconventional Strikes
This trait would improve the initial-damage bonus from gambit chains.

Taking Advantage
This trait gives you a chance to deal a little bit of damage to enemies who block, parry, or evade one of your attacks.

Martial Fury
This trait gives you one additional pulse to your gambit Damage over Time effects, +10% Damage over Time, and +10% Initial Skill Damage
______________________________ __________
On the Offence
This trait gives 2-10% morale-tap damage and healing (Offensive Strike no longer has a morale-tap).

Spear Sweep, Quick Sweep, and No Mercy
These traits have been consolidated into a single trait improving the damage from your physical spear bleeds by 5-25%.

No Respite for the Wicked
The effect from this trait would be changed to the Wall of Steel gambit line. With the Offensive Strike gambit line now AoE, applying such a strong debuff with AoE skills would make it too easy to apply this effect.

Warden’s Triumph
This trait will also add 10-30 seconds of duration to the associated buffs, in addition to its former/current effects.

Muscle Memory
This trait causes any skill used from Battle Memory to restore a small amount of power.


Yellow (Traits)
As yellow will no longer allow specialization, it will no longer have specialization bonuses. Some of its current specialization bonuses are being moved into the trait tree.
Endurance Training
This trait has 5 ranks, giving -2% attack duration in Assailment per rank.

New: Movement Training
This trait has 5 ranks, increasing shield-gambit ratings buffs from 2-10%.

Lasting Mark
This trait has been split into two traits: ‘Marked Targets’ and ‘Diminished Targets.’ The first rank in each gives the corresponding effect to certain gambits. Marked Target will be applied by any skills in the Boot – Cauterizing Steel gambit sequence, and Diminished Target would be applied by and skills in the Precise Blow - Spear of Fate gambit sequence. Subsequent ranks of both trait increase the durations of their corresponding debuffs.

Ranged Damage
This trait increases Ranged Damage from 3%-15%.

Throwing Arm
This trait now has 5 ranks, increasing your javelin range from 2-10m.

Momentum and Shield’s Up
These traits have been removed. The stances should stand on their own, and these bonuses mostly encourage quickly toggling between stances without meaningfully changing your gameplay.

Strong Foundations
This trait causes your gambit builder skills to reduce the active cooldowns of their related mastery skills (up to -2s at max rank). For example, using Quick Thrust will reduce the active cooldowns of your Spear and Spear, Spear and Shield, and Spear
and Fist mastery skills.

Piercing Javelins
Rather than giving armour penetration, this trait now reduces the chances that your javelin skills and gambits will be blocked, parried, evaded, or resisted.

Barbed Javelins, Shattered Javelins, Area Targeting, and Hurry Up with That!
These traits have been removed. This is part of the greater effect consolidation between melee and ranged gambits.
With Marked and Diminished debuffs being applied by gambits, Area Targeting doesn’t have a place in the warden’s kit.
‘Hurry Up with That’ frankly gives too strong a buff, and it affects very few roles. Notably, it didn’t improve anything for the warden who actually used Adroit Manoeuvre.

Adroit Ambush
This trait causes Adroit Manoeuvre to remove the induction from your next use of Ambush. Combined with Ambush being usable in combat, this allows wardens to ‘prime’ Ambush by using Adroit, giving access to Ambush (and its run speed bonus) without being forced through a lengthy induction.

Fire at Will
The Fire at Will skill no longer gives Mastery rating; instead, it gives +5% Ranged Damage, +5% Tactical Damage, and -10% Attack Duration.

Battering Strikes
The first rank of this trait adds a Critical Defence debuff to gambits in the Offensive Strike sequence. Subsequent ranks increase the potency of this debuff.

Suppression
The first rank of this trait adds an Outgoing Damage debuff to gambits in the War Cry-Desolation line (rather than the Offensive Strike line).

Javelin of Deadly Force
This skill now deals considerably more damage, and will apply Marked and Diminished Target debuffs (if those traits have been earned) to any enemies hit.

Snap Shot (requires Javelin of Deadly Force as a prerequisite)
Rather than give copies of every javelin skill, this effect will reset your javelin skill cooldowns. The list of affected skills will also be a bit slimmer, due to having fewer javelin skills overall: Ambush, Hampering Javelin, Javelin of Deadly Force, and Warning Shot (if specialized in Determination).

Seize the Moment
This trait has been removed. While Seize the Moment is a strong effect, it is not always a reliable proc, and when it does proc, the fact that it removes all mastery skill cooldowns for 10 seconds completely upends the flow of mastery and gambit usage. Some of you love Seize the Moment, but the whole class is designed around builders and masteries gating your rate of gambit skill use; removing that gate almost entirely by virtue of an unreliable proc has had some negative consequences for gameplay. We’re counteracting the loss of this trait with ‘Strong Foundations,’ the mechanic that causes gambit builders to reduce some active mastery cooldowns and ‘Rapid Techniques,’ which gives you periodic mastery resets for a brief time.

Rapid Techniques
This trait grants the Rapid Techniques skill.



Traceries
A few traceries have had their values adjusted slightly or their passive stat changed. Some traceries have been made obsolete by the changes above, and a few new ones have been added.
No existing traceries will be removed. Please do not delete your existing traceries. Obsolete traceries will automatically change according to the list below:


Adroit Manoeuvre Damage will become Spear-Fist Gambit Damage

Ambush Critical Chance will become Ambush Runspeed Bonus

Careful Step Cooldown & Stealth Level will become Never Surrender Duration and Incoming Healing

Gambit Lifetap Damage will become Gambit Lifetap Damage and Healing

Marked Target Double Cast will become Marked and Diminished Target Potency

Recklessness Critical Rating will become Recklessness Duration

Resolution Damage will become Resolution Damage and Healing

Resolution Target Resist Chance will become Morale-tap Resistance Reduction

Shield Piercer Duration & Evade Debuff Chance will become Gambit Debuff Duration

Shield Tactics Tactical Mitigation Rating will become Shield Tactics Immunity Duration

Surety of Death Damage over Time will become Fist-Shield Gambit Damage over Time

Wages of Fear Positional Damage will become Fist-Spear Gambit Damage over Time


New: Way of the Spear Bonuses

New: Restorative Shield-work Cooldown

New: Shield Gambit Buff Duration

I really hope that you will not change the current effects of offensive strike except to add a significant threat to it... it is the highest single target morale tap and stacks to like the ninth place on the mob, please don't take away from it's current effects or if you must then add it's current effects to persevere if you're going to completely change offensive strike

[Lhimlight]

End Note
Pre-Combat Buff Dancing
I've been tanking with Warden since....Mirkwood or so. I'd love some way to just condense our Pre-Combat Buff Dancing into a smaller timeframe. An out of combat tank buff skill if you were that just flipped it on for the start, not even just for myself, but to speed up those like long wind ups going into combat. I mean does anyone really enjoy needing to stand around with their food buffs and everything running down for 30s or so before every pull? Might just be a personal thing I'd love to see happen at some point though maybe just wishful thinking.[/QUOTE]

Agree on this would be nice if maybe another skill was added with all the combined defensive buffs so you dont have to prep every gambit before you grab aggro. wouldn't think this would cause any issues just would save tanking wardens time, maybe even combine it into battle prep perhaps.

Red warden feels potentially in a good place, would be nice to see more spear bonuses to fetch it on par with racials, would even suggest a overall 5% increase to light damage as a passive that dosnt stack with high elves, would at least give people a option to be a hobbit or man warden and not be punished on dps.

i know ive mentioned it before but will the armour set bonuses be changed as martial proc chance is useless now

[Eadondryt]

The class work only Devs way, and they gather feedbacks from ppl who use words like "gibberish" and call other ppl trolls.
All i told you that those skils are there for reason. They are not there from u35. They were/are there on live.
If you dont know how dmg tanks work, then its your problem. Warden and champ were always dps tanks. Thats why they need dmg boost even in their tank lines. Because unlike other tanks, their taunts are limited, aslo not much efective. Sugesting removing dmg boost from blue line, show how less exp you have with warden. You are key masher who want to have all dps boost talents in one tree so to pick best of the best, giving a sh/t about lines and specs you dont play.
Such players get zero respect.
If you had experience with your class, my first post wont appear trollish or jiberish to you.
I dont blame you for your lack of such, just dont title me with troll and other bs pls.
Have fun with the game



I disagree with ONE of your lines, and YOU tell me this ?

Right....

Have you tested warning shot on bullroarer? Or suicide shot as you call it.
How much extra damage is it resulting in?

Have you looked in combat analysis to see how many times you get crit by a boss, before complaining about the loss of some crit d?

[Plidak]

Have you tested warning shot on bullroarer? Or suicide shot as you call it.
How much extra damage is it resulting in?

Have you looked in combat analysis to see how many times you get crit by a boss, before complaining about the loss of some crit d?

Test what m8 ? its a raw 3% buff on target. Downgrade it to 1% if you wish, is stil unneeded nerfs which makes no sence. Tell me ONE game where tanks buff targets on taunt. One. Lotro should be uniq right ? Right ....
Some crit defence? You call the drop from 62% to 20% SOME?
Warden suffer from crits since release of the class. 14y + of taking crits. And they are one of the main reason wrd bad performance as tank. You dont need to get crited 24/7, as wrd 1-2 are enough.

Now let me ask you how many times you tank on warden ? Ok lets not make it personal. So il ask you another question.
How many wardens you get as tanks in your raids /even if t1/ ? Or hell, even in your 3/6 man runs ?
Il ask you the same question 1-2 months after u35 release so you can save your answer and give it then.

[Eadondryt]

Test what m8 ? its a raw 3% buff on target. Downgrade it to 1% if you wish, is stil unneeded nerfs which makes no sence. Tell me ONE game where tanks buff targets on taunt. One. Lotro should be uniq right ? Right ....
Some crit defence? You call the drop from 62% to 20% SOME?
Warden suffer from crits since release of the class. 14y + of taking crits. And they are one of the main reason wrd bad performance as tank. You dont need to get crited 24/7, as wrd 1-2 are enough.

Now let me ask you how many times you tank on warden ? Ok lets not make it personal. So il ask you another question.
How many wardens you get as tanks in your raids /even if t1/ ? Or hell, even in your 3/6 man runs ?
Il ask you the same question 1-2 months after u35 release so you can save your answer and give it then.

I watched a warden tank HoA T4 B2 last night, and use warning shot on the boss with 0 problems.
Ill leave it at that.

In the meantime, stop asking people if they tank on warden, or calling them inexperienced when they disagree with you, its childish.

[Plidak]

I watched a warden tank HoA T4 B2 last night, and use warning shot on the boss with 0 problems.
Ill leave it at that.

In the meantime, stop asking people if they tank on warden, or calling them inexperienced when they disagree with you, its childish.

DUDE, or dudete. i watched a warden tanking 2 bosses at t3 boss 1 / on live server/
Do this make it viable / not. Just show that he got healers who are very familiar with their class and boss fight.
Asking simple question is far from childrish. Is childrish to say - HEY I WATCHED WARDEN TANKING BOSS X IN RAID Y. THE CLASS IS VIABLE BECAUSE I WATCHED IT ....

And yes you are unexperienced. Its not me saying it. Its you screaming it.
There is the fight. So we all can watch it. Which prove warden is very mich viable on live, and all u35 changes can be reverted back. Right ?




And there is his gear with starting pieces and yellow wrists.



I wont coment his slopy rotation.
If such warden can do it, everyone should. Right ?
Now go add his healers to your friends list and go rock things

I watched a warden tank HoA T4 B2 last night

For the future pls give feedbacks for the classes you play, not the ones you watched ...

Bye

[Eadondryt]

DUDE, or dudete. i watched a warden tanking 2 bosses at t3 boss 1 / on live server/
Do this make it viable / not. Just show that he got healers who are very familiar with their class and boss fight.
Asking simple question is far from childrish. Is childrish to say - HEY I WATCHED WARDEN TANKING BOSS X IN RAID Y. THE CLASS IS VIABLE BECAUSE I WATCHED IT ....

And yes you are unexperienced. Its not me saying it. Its you screaming it.
There is the fight. So we all can watch it. Which prove warden is very mich viable on live, and all u35 changes can be reverted back. Right ?




And there is his gear with starting pieces and yellow wrists.



I wont coment his slopy rotation.
If such warden can do it, everyone should. Right ?
Now go add his healers to your friends list and go rock things



For the future pls give feedbacks for the classes you play, not the ones you watched ...

Bye

Why do you keep going on about live?
This is the bullroarer forum - to discuss bullroarer.

The warden I watched last night tanked HH T4 using warning shot on the boss without any problems.
This shows that “suicide shot” is not suicide, and you are wrong.
It shows crit defence is not an issue.

It shows that you haven’t actually tested the things you are complaining about. And when shown evidence that you are wrong, you just attack people, claim they don’t play warden - despite having a YouTube channel dedicated to warden tanking.

Then say we’ll it’s their group setup.
Then say something about live, when nobody is even discussing live…

Reality: You are just a bad warden, and want the class to be buffed so much so you don’t seem to suck so bad.

[Vorfolomeev]

First of all, I'd like to thank developers for class revamp. We've been waiting for that so long and finally got quite pretty updates and mechanics.
And 3d Bullroarer is much better than 1st one. Special thanks that I can play with spear again.

But now I'd like to discuss about warden DPS. Last 2 days I tried different builds, traceries, stances and, of course, rotations. And my average result is about 470. And my friend warden scored the same.
I decided that finally we have compatible damage but I was wrong. When my friends, playing other classes, came to Bullroarer, RK did 600 dps, hunter 780 dps, minstrel 820 and burglar 1 mln.
Ok, maybe I didn't find the most effective rotation which will give me 500 dps or even 530, anyway..

Yeah, I perfectly realize that Warden is not primarily damage class (minstrel with 820 dps too by the way) but really, why should our class be demanded in raids or even 3/6 instances? Best tank of all? Doubt it. DPS? Much worse than other classes. At live servers we can talk about induction buff for hunters but in U35 we'll lose even it.
So now at live servers there's only one chance to join HH or SV >t3 - if someone is looking for "any". We used it's warden class second name. And comparing DPS at Bullroarer with other classes I'm afraid the situation will not change.

Yes, I really loved to play warden-tank since Mines of Moria was released but after Mirkwood and Barad Guldur raid was forced to play Guardian to save nerves of our healers. Nothing changed for 13 years and I have no illusions that since U35 warden will be the best tank among other classes. Even if so, doesn't class revamp mean that it should have at least 2 playable, compatible roles?

I even don't mention that if I didn't play warden (especially with adroit manoeuvre) I could become great pianist. It's ok, I love this playstyle. But while other damage classes press like 7 buttons in rotation and have dps >50% more.. idk

Overall, please, consider making warden DPS just compatible with other damage classes. We are tired to be "any"

[Plidak]

Why do you keep going on about live?
This is the bullroarer forum - to discuss bullroarer.

The warden I watched last night tanked HH T4 using warning shot on the boss without any problems.
This shows that “suicide shot” is not suicide, and you are wrong.
It shows crit defence is not an issue.

It shows that you haven’t actually tested the things you are complaining about. And when shown evidence that you are wrong, you just attack people, claim they don’t play warden - despite having a YouTube channel dedicated to warden tanking.

Then say we’ll it’s their group setup.
Then say something about live, when nobody is even discussing live…

Reality: You are just a bad warden, and want the class to be buffed so much so you don’t seem to suck so bad.

Im not going about live. dont twist my words.
One warden having good healers doesnt mean he is viable, nor justify the target buff from taunt.
All wrd changes are based on live, to make unplayable class viable.
The video i link / based on your logic/ show that class is viable. So why all the changes ?
Same with you watching SOMEONE ELSE tanking on BR. If he pull it out, then class is ok right ? No is not.
There is no need to buff mobs wuth your only ST taunt, and there is zero reason to justify the crit defence reduce.
Im sure even beor or champion can tank on br with good healers and with set gear. Considering HH is almost 2y old raid, and all the Li upgrades we got.
Call me whatever, i give feeback based on personal experience about the class i play. You give such based on smth you watch sm1 else doing, or on something you hear from someone ....

I dont want class ovebuffed, because unlike you, i know such classes usualy get nerfed to the ground 1 month later and then wait 1/2 up to year for rebalance.
Plse dont bother me with yourself anymore.
Have fun playing the game.

[Lhimlight]

[QUOTE=PIZDQK;8179921]DUDE, or dudete. i watched a warden tanking 2 bosses at t3 boss 1 / on live server/
Do this make it viable / not. Just show that he got healers who are very familiar with their class and boss fight.
Asking simple question is far from childrish. Is childrish to say - HEY I WATCHED WARDEN TANKING BOSS X IN RAID Y. THE CLASS IS VIABLE BECAUSE I WATCHED IT ....

Pretty sure you say in that comment "you watched a warden on live"
and the video you linked is a video from Live,

as eadon says this a forum for bullroarer, i havent tested tanking but i know of eadons tanking and he is a good warden tank, he would be one of the first i would go to for advice on tanking.

[Krissy]

as eadon says this a forum for bullroarer, i havent tested tanking but i know of eadons tanking and he is a good warden tank, he would be one of the first i would go to for advice on tanking.

I 100% agree that Eadon is the go to for Warden tanking info.

But... I would also argue that although Eadons imput is greatly helpful and he/she is an amzing Warden tank, not everyone is that good, or has the time to become that good.
The game cannot be balanced around the best of the best, otherwise the class will just be a job rather than fun.

I am speaking as a not great Warden tank, who can atleast admit to himself.

Sorry if I have offended you Eadon, you are a great tank, and in a different league than most.

[Lhimlight]

also need to remember that warden is an advanced class, and its not designed to pick up and play like others, it can take months if not years to truly master and then there is still lots to be learned

[Eadondryt]

I 100% agree that Eadon is the go to for Warden tanking info.

But... I would also argue that although Eadons imput is greatly helpful and he/she is an amzing Warden tank, not everyone is that good, or has the time to become that good.
The game cannot be balanced around the best of the best, otherwise the class will just be a job rather than fun.

I am speaking as a not great Warden tank, who can atleast admit to himself.

Sorry if I have offended you Eadon, you are a great tank, and in a different league than most.

No offence taken.

I’m just trying to differentiate between legitimate concerns the devs need to address, and non-issues that people are complaining about without actually testing for themselves.

People are calling a skill suicide, without ever actually using it Vs a raid boss.
Then when I say I’ve seen it used Vs a raid boss and your concern is not warranted, it’s met with denial.

I’ve also tested it myself.

I agree in principal that there should not be a boss buff on warning shot. Just remove it.
But is also think that if it stays it’s not going to be an issue, it’s certainly not suicide like people are claiming.

Let’s provide actual useful feedback to the devs instead of getting unjustly upset and blowing things out of proportion.

[JuanD]

DUDE, or dudete. i watched a warden tanking 2 bosses at t3 boss 1 / on live server/
Do this make it viable / not. Just show that he got healers who are very familiar with their class and boss fight.

Bye

What will make the class viable in your opinion then?

You've been complaining about Warning Shot and Crit Def, saying that no one would take a warden to tank high tier 6 mans and raids.

Now we0ve seen proof on BR that's not the case. The same Warden who tanked HHT4 also tanked SV T5, in both cases being able to sustain himself for quite some time with no healer, to the point where most people were saying Warden self-heals would haev been enough, he wasn't even breaking a sweat. If that is not viable then what is?

[PreemptiveRegret]

End Note
Pre-Combat Buff Dancing
I've been tanking with Warden since....Mirkwood or so. I'd love some way to just condense our Pre-Combat Buff Dancing into a smaller timeframe. An out of combat tank buff skill if you were that just flipped it on for the start, not even just for myself, but to speed up those like long wind ups going into combat. I mean does anyone really enjoy needing to stand around with their food buffs and everything running down for 30s or so before every pull? Might just be a personal thing I'd love to see happen at some point though maybe just wishful thinking.

Agree on this would be nice if maybe another skill was added with all the combined defensive buffs so you dont have to prep every gambit before you grab aggro. wouldn't think this would cause any issues just would save tanking wardens time, maybe even combine it into battle prep perhaps.

Red warden feels potentially in a good place, would be nice to see more spear bonuses to fetch it on par with racials, would even suggest a overall 5% increase to light damage as a passive that dosnt stack with high elves, would at least give people a option to be a hobbit or man warden and not be punished on dps.

i know ive mentioned it before but will the armour set bonuses be changed as martial proc chance is useless now

100% agreed. I've posted about this before but the precombat buffing is absolutely excessive and makes the class feel like a chore, the design is incredibly antiquated and has no place in the current iteration of any MMO. It very directly makes me not want to tank.

I don't see why they don't give us an out of combat only gambit, 2-2-2-2-2, that casts all of our defensive buffs at once provided you stay out of combat for say 4s, it could be an induction.

[OmnisFenrir]

Also il like to hear your opinion about the crit defence loss. We lost like 40% compared to live (62%vs20%)

Yea the Critical Defense loss was a lot more palpable than I'd originally thought it out to be, especially with the changes to Never Surrender. Predicting your death has really always been one of my least favorite MMO tropes in general. Knowing when the big hit absolutely helps mechanically, but predicting a very random possible RNG bad roll as it were is just not great when it happens. The critical def loss compounds that, since we're more vulnerable to critical while simultaneously needing to predict a potential fall.

[OmnisFenrir]

End Note
Pre-Combat Buff Dancing
I've been tanking with Warden since....Mirkwood or so. I'd love some way to just condense our Pre-Combat Buff Dancing into a smaller timeframe. An out of combat tank buff skill if you were that just flipped it on for the start, not even just for myself, but to speed up those like long wind ups going into combat. I mean does anyone really enjoy needing to stand around with their food buffs and everything running down for 30s or so before every pull? Might just be a personal thing I'd love to see happen at some point though maybe just wishful thinking.

Agree on this would be nice if maybe another skill was added with all the combined defensive buffs so you dont have to prep every gambit before you grab aggro. wouldn't think this would cause any issues just would save tanking wardens time, maybe even combine it into battle prep perhaps.

Red warden feels potentially in a good place, would be nice to see more spear bonuses to fetch it on par with racials, would even suggest a overall 5% increase to light damage as a passive that dosnt stack with high elves, would at least give people a option to be a hobbit or man warden and not be punished on dps.

i know ive mentioned it before but will the armour set bonuses be changed as martial proc chance is useless now

Yea when I'd thought of this I really just thought it'd be an excellent QoL type change just to make the game slightly more streamlined. Save everyone some time pre-each pull, since unlike other classes activating pre combat skills is a button push, but we gotta go through the ringer a bit for animations and what not. Would still love to see a Pre-Combat Buff Dancing type skill, could make it adaptable to Blue/Red now too.

[Plidak]

Don't need this change. Bring a pot, now you have two removals.
Pot helps you nothing in most of such fights.

Aka pre boss 2 HH trash.
Ye i do agree, if healer know his job, you should not be worried. Still feeling little crapy to have 1 removal compared to other tanks.

The developer says he's looking at it. Just realize that 5% increased damage on the taunt is 5 seconds in duration. Its silly the effect is even there? yes, but the end of the world? No.

Is not the end of the world, but it can be the begining of it, if we just take it to the chin and let devs just put whatever, because is RP friendly....
When i RP i bring my girl to hill with flower, im not buffing things i need to kill, just to look more "knightish" ....
And yes its silly, which is the reason it should not go on live.

I cant speak for the cashouts and what not.
Sarch Vorn last boss with the reflect you dont need to rush, there is no reason to rush for the first half since the man does absolutely no damage. So if you're in as a dps warden just dont use dots = alive pepega. And then go ham on the second guy, and succeed.

SV t3 + is done on release day with party of 3. So im sure 5 ppl +1 afk at the first phase warden can done it too. The idea is why wrd should be afk?
Aplying dots is not rushing. As red you have nothing outside dots. Your sugestion is to a.. tickle boss with gambit builders till he go in phase to ?
Can be done / and its already done/ but its stupid.

Don't see this as an issue. We have enough crit defense. Think I'm sitting at 27% and then the 7% trait. And another 5% from a gundabad WOC. On beta. .

you can add some extra from teal crafted traceries. Question is not "it is enough" Its more li "whats is the reason to be reduced" Are OP class which get tuned down, or we are a$$ dead class which they want to revive/ literaly.

If you're out of range to taunt adds then you're out of range to taunt adds. Re-evaluate where you stand next time.

Use desperate combat if you feel like you need another taunt as well. Its tied to our shield gambits now and makes it a lot easier to use. .[/QUOTE]
Take Naru as example. You cant stand at adds spawn point all the time. You are not doing it alone you know. Ppl love to sh/t puddles left and right, and to get in range to taunt you need to trample the pudle and make your healer sweaty, or step on 2 and die. Take new 6 man isnatnce for example if you dont wana be bothered with Naru. The coridor with the trash from boss 1 to boss 2. Im sure this instance will be done /as it now on BR / mostly with ranged dps. And if they steal agro / which isnt hard, they have the habit to kite away from tank. Add all the pudles on the ground. You need to dive all in, to go and mele range taunt adds / if more than 1 and ST taunt is on cd. Whatever, i guess we have what we have. Also wont mention the efectivness of DC compared to other guard cpt and brawler aoe taunts.

You're mistaken. Our self heals now are very potent, and with spike damage we have many sources of damage reduction to counter spike now.

Our self sustain is great on BR i agree. But we dont have spiky heal, outside NS. I hope you dont count 4 bulders CoS as such ... Its too meh to worth memorised..

Those are CC interruptible casts on the slugs. That's a mechanical failure on your cc (Champ horn, LM, RK stone... etc.)
You can also just have your back on a wall and you're fine. The punt doesn't reduce you to 5%, sounds like you're standing in puddles casted by the rats, also interruptible and CC.

I agree but you should aslo agree that warden is most fellow dependant class. With all 3 other tanks you can correct ppl mistakes, and with warden you suffer from them, and mostly end dead. I dont see the reason why wrd should be that punished compared to other classes. As tank you should be able to balance ppl lack of skills /which doesnt mean to solo the instance yoursef/

TThis is something that the developer has mentioned. He knows that experience will be different across all players. Perks, when he tanked B2 and dps B1 on HHT4 wont be representative of EVERY warden.

Devs must learn that ppl who test on BR are ppl who usualy play progresive content. High tier raids and such. And their grp on BR is like pemade grp on live.
Often with voice chat, and even more often with ppl who rly know what they are doing. Which have nothing to do with live server, where 90% of population do their weekly runs with pugs or semi kind runs and with WAY less skilled ppl. BR balance should not be based on premade grp performance. If one class perform OKish on BR, mean he will suck socks on live.
The kins who run higher tier dont give a #### do one class is op and which. They just take it and use it to progress their grp. So there wont be a complains from their side.
But ppl who usualy run nothing more than t1 and fetivals, and who never see a wrd tank in their kins/grps/ open world, come here to give feedbacks how OP the class is, and spit on ppl who want balance , blaming them they just want their class to be above others. Such should have no voice on forum. And by saing this i mean their opinion should be taken with OK and ignored (especialy from devs)

Hope this helps!

Im not in need of a help and ty.
Hope you get my point.

[Elwha]

Not a fan of this. I understand why you changed Unconventional Strikes but why are you nixing our minor survivability traits? This parry bonus is not OP by any stretch. Please consider reverting this.