Filling the Gaps: following in the footsteps of the Wildwood and the Angle

[TesalionLortus]

I don't get flickers on my setup.

That sounds nice. You absolutely sure though? Not even with Advanced Dx10 Shadows or Ambient Occlusion (on bushes)? In motion, flickering/shimmering, at the edges, on shadows, bushes, branches, and other such "transparent' objects. If so, then no idea, maybe it's Nvidia specific problem, happened to me always on laptops and gaming monitor too, no matter the settings and it's there in bug queue... and probably untouched.

[TesalionLortus]

I attached the rough terrain map of Nurn from beta on "hypothetical" After Battle open world, for extra perspective. *Assuming they moved things and provided space for Umbar and Harad.




This time, the assumption here is they're going to end up with continuous large Gondor - based on how they might be redoing all of Gondor, after all... I guess that's a real possibility. And like I said above, I'm assuming they made space for Harad and Umbar - if they moved things - and IF they want to put Anfalas on King's Gondor, well, then there is a chance they had to move things to begin with, simply to accommodate the entire King's Gondor.

I still wish for them to be able to export the changes back to old Gondor, either for release or after, at least. That's seriously a must. But if massive open world in this part of the world was their motivation in some capacity, then I can see far more merit behind their potential decision with a continuous King's Gondor "from MT to Anfalas and beyond." Absent of context the decision to redo Western Gondor wouldn't appeal optimal to me, all things considered, and that part of the story could easily be told on what we have... but with this specific context in mind, the continuous open world of "After" with ideas for opening up the Bay of Belfalas and beyond it, now that changes things, if that's what they are thinking...

In this scenario, I could easily see merely two chock points separating this massive future region from Rhovanion - at Lang Rhuven and the road out of Mordor at the East of Mordor, as two teleport points. That's very tidy.

Potentially, if they ever have coastal regions in Eriador, like Minhiriath/Enedwaith and around them, then would need only one teleport border/point on water between them, plus a mountain pass/road chock point if they ever have these furthest parts of Gondor. But otherwise... open world sea to your heart's content, no need for teleporting and setting up connections, just walls to prevent getting into undeveloped portions. In this scenario, if they truly do/end up with entire Gondor redone as part of one map... they really can have massive sea, eventually. I mean, it's just water. Does it take resources? Hardly, it's there even when we can't swim on it. So shouldn't take much to make it accessible. Perhaps Anfalas to Umbar in straight line, for all of us explorer crazies out there, on our little boats, would become a reality. It doesn't exactly need to be entirely empty. Lore / geographical knowledge taken into account, so only if that's somehow feasible - I guess there could be some lone far away islands to explore, some little things. Or even vessels in middle of the sea that you can climb onto and interact with crew/do quest/find a treasure chest. Bay of Belfalas can be a big place... and lots of stuff may be somewhere out there, without making things cluttered.

If they added clear skied Old and Far Anorien in the future, that would need its teleports too of course, same as on already existing Gondor map. I guess in such a scenario it's very likely they would extend the missing chunks of Anduin and do the other shores / Nindalf - bordered on Emyn Muil and Dead Marches reeds, so wouldn't even need a connection I guess. Emyn Muil itself I would just put on Rhovanion map, with teleport to Dead Marches, or attach it to Dead Marches and connect with East Wall - or just connect Dead Marches to the East Wall right now via teleport, I honestly don't care! Emyn Muil can easily be done as session play and doesn't sound all that exciting to go through, I guess we can just listen to Frodo tell us about his journey in Emyn Muil while traveling back though Old Anorien and then maybe that portion of Emyn Muil from session play could just be there on landscape too, attached either to Nindalf or the East Wall area, no quests, whichever makes sense = done! Of course... I would be mindful of any changes that might seem reasonable to reflect on pre-battle version... with any of such things in the future wink wink

Then, assuming all of that rings true, would make perfect sense to build massive Rhun/Dorwinion/Eastern Rhovanion on Rhovanion map and continue expanding that map in width (currently it's very thin...). If that happens, if After map becomes this massive square space with traversable ocean waters, and Gondor map getting left behind no more additions, with just pre-battle Gondor on it, well... then Eriador would no longer be this sole "still biggest ever" pal in the club, which it sadly still is currently, given its width and height, and overall impression of spacefulness on all sides (even despite the fact that it's the only one where proportions are more badly compressed, oh the irony). So 3 big open worlds, all of them eventually equally massive in width and height, 2 of which massive potential for large traversable oceans and 1 mostly dry land but still with potentially massive inland sea. Maybe. We shall see. But there is a chance full King's Gondor may tie into such larger worldbuilding strategy here and based on MiniExpBounder's comments they definitely have space on those maps to grow their open spaces to such large square sizes - assuming things are placed thoughtfully. Now that I'm thinking about this seems very logical vs having something like Rhun attached to Mordor on After and... end up with this somewhat thinner and/or more convoluted snake that can never really fully grow in all directions, and coastlines/ocean would not have to be split into 3 different maps (if THAT'S what they are after, then I guess I could live with "alternate housing neighborhood in King's Gondor where I don't have a house" if that means One Ocean, no breaks, and that they can give me that massive sailable ocean! Or... just have the sea part of it in King's Gondor and neighborhood shores inaccessible behind invisible wall, with additional entry/menu to enter neighborhood at one of the docks. That would work too and I can still own the same house in King's Gondor : )

[Phantion]

Now that I'm thinking about this seems very logical vs having something like Rhun attached to Mordor on After and... end up with this somewhat thinner and/or more convoluted snake that can never really fully grow in all directions, and coastlines/ocean would not have to be split into 3 different maps (if THAT'S what they are after, then I guess I could live with "alternate housing neighborhood in King's Gondor where I don't have a house" if that means One Ocean, no breaks, and that they can give me that massive sailable ocean! Or... just have the sea part of it in King's Gondor and neighborhood shores inaccessible behind invisible wall, with additional entry/menu to enter neighborhood at one of the docks. That would work too and I can still own the same house in King's Gondor : )

Yeah I like the latter idea best Let's not go into having homesteads get conquered by enemies "in our absence." It would make King Elessar seem foolish and lazy; and worse, if the King "seized back the Cape of Belfalas," and "revoked" the housing in the storyline, I'm fairly sure all my characters would go rogue and side with the Corsairs and try to cause a second Kin-Strife, *laughs!* Having a little fun there hahahahaha Oh- and my characters would have to march straight to Durin and demand that he pay for it since we were busy in Mt. Gundabad and Angmar!!!

Anywho- I think the "Bree-land Homesteads" approach is probably best. Keep the shores accessible - maybe even the two kin-house islands (*maybe just put some walls around the actual houses), and keep the "homestead area" just surrounded by impassable walls, shrubs, trees, etc. And keep the homesteads there, maybe have clicky-horses to get to the housing instance entrances / clicky boats at the docks like you said.

Some of us like to roleplay - including with our houses - along with the game storylines, especially on my home serve Landy And . . . it really wouldn't sit well with me if a bunch of Corsairs fleeing Pelargir somehow took over those yards I took a very long time to decorate, LOL!

---

I do think the Anfalas direction makes some sense. If the theme is basically, I'm just guessing, Aragorn sending us as the King's Messengers to "report on the state of the realm" away from Minas Tirith - well, a big part of that storyline was indeed Golasgil of Anfalas' fate in the Battle of the Black Gate. So it does kind of make sense to go wrap-up that part of the story before heading immediately south for Umbar. Poor Golasgil's people have been waiting a very long time of several months for someone to go off to Anfalas to tell them how their Lord died. Too many delays on that, in my view - let alone Theoden's funeral! XD

Cheers!

[TesalionLortus]

Yeah, LOL. It would seem weird if the houses were revoked. Plus story-wise, this was the coast already touched by the Corsair and the entire idea was people escaped further into Belfalas/were killed, so we basically renovated the place and moved in and *are* actually taking care of it. Even if our character isn't there - it has some soldiers patrolling and others who take care of it. Would seem weird if it was "taken over" and narratively I sure hope we won't be seeing some massive Corsair camps and forces taking over everywhere because "there have to be some mobs!" More like some lone deserter camps... and fighting with their fists or raw clubs of wood... because they abandoned all weapons in fear, you know... sounds like something more appropriate and such guys shouldn't be able to just take over Belfalas in the first place

I do think the Anfalas direction makes some sense. If the theme is basically, I'm just guessing, Aragorn sending us as the King's Messengers to "report on the state of the realm" away from Minas Tirith - well, a big part of that storyline was indeed Golasgil of Anfalas' fate in the Battle of the Black Gate.

Story-wise, yeah, makes sense to tackle that plot thread. But they could have easily done it by having Anfalas zone adjacent to clear sky Western Gondor on old Gondor map, wouldn't be a problem. So I really hope they do have more pros and future world-building prospects up their sleeve or already in plans/on the table, behind such decision to redo Western - if that's actually happening.

[Arnand_the_Fox]

I attached the rough terrain map of Nurn from beta on "hypothetical" After Battle open world, for extra perspective. *Assuming they moved things and provided space for Umbar and Harad.

You couldn't move anything in the Mordor territory to have space for Umbar and Harad. The Territory region itself isn't big enough. At least with everything else thats already in it like Mordor Besieged, and all the other instance maps etc.

Overlaying the Gondor hightmap over the Mordor one, and doing some rough math on where Anfalas and Harondor would end, SSG should JUST be able to fit Anfalas(at least the eastern half the Gondor map actually shows), and Harondor within the territory boundaries. The map below showing the rough places where the western end of eastern Anfalas, and the southern end of Harondor, would be. Umbar would either have to be in a new Harad territroy space, or placed in one of the empty spaces in the Mordor territory region.

[Phantion]

Are we saying then that the Gondor and Mordor territories are both smaller than the Eriador and Rhovanion ones as far as total mapping space goes?

After all, on Eriador, it's a pretty huge chunk of terrain to get from the Gap of Rohan in the southernmost extent to Forochel in the northernmost extent- as well as, on latitude, between Thorin's Gate / Ered Luin and Northern High Pass / Misties. I could say the same for from the southeastern Eastfold / West Rohan all the way up to the tippy-tip of Car Bronach / Gundabad - and from Flooded Isengard, on latitude, out to Jarnfast / Iron Hills.

Well, anyways, if there is, they can use the Lefnui (*probably compressed / brought closer like other Gondorian rivers are) as a "territory divider" for Anfalas and the Harnen as the "territory divider" between Harondor and Umbar / Harad - and have Umbar on its own territory map right from the get-go, if it comes to it.

I'd love for TesalionLortus's open-world ships idea! But we also might want to . . . reign things in a little bit. We truly have no idea, no concept of what they're planning for boats or what that will look like.

Guild Wars II has a neat model though with their skiffs. The skiff can be dismounted as its own separate object, which vanishes if you're too far away from it. But other players can climb aboard and fish from it, for example. So, it sort of operates as a stationary decoration item when you "park it," but also like a mount in that, you can't like drop a thousand skiffs around and fill the sea with them and lose your own somehow, etc. You can only "park it" within a certain range of your character; it always stays with you.

But when its time to "board it," move on it, it operates like LOTRO's mounts do - except it only moves on water. But it's the same deal, pretty much, using your movement keys. You "mount" it by simply standing on it and pressing a key that "mounts" your boat

Anyways, we have no clue what they have in mind as far as LOTRO goes. So . . . fun to speculate We'll have to see It's not like when CardoSwan leaked, and we had all this evidence of major terraforming going on lol


Cheers!

[Arnand_the_Fox]

Are we saying then that the Gondor and Mordor territories are both smaller than the Eriador and Rhovanion ones as far as total mapping space goes?

Yes, they're both smaller

[TesalionLortus]

Well, why is there a second larger Mordor in the corner? Besieged? Is Besieged actually larger in terms of proportions than regular? Never picked up on it in game.

Yes, they're both smaller

Sounds weird to me, why would they be. Eriador already may seem massive and I remember MiniExpBounder said there is still enough space on it to potentially expand into Forodwaith or do Farlindon. Maybe it's just that this height map does not cover max ground yet and can be extended? Or, from the looks of its size maybe it is actually the max size, because looks quite spacey and I specifically said if they moved things - that would include moving some of these things onto another layer, potentially, and then moving everything North. That would provide a whole lot of space. They had to move Mordor Besieged, no doubt. Assuming they're doing Anfalas on After. Because otherwise it would be right out there, in the close proximity "on ocean." If they could do that with Besieged, it really shows they would be perfectly capable of doing that with some of these smaller instances out there. Time will tell.

I'd love for TesalionLortus's open-world ships idea! But we also might want to . . . reign things in a little bit. We truly have no idea, no concept of what they're planning for boats or what that will look like.

Well, it really doesn't matter though, unless you want to tell me they really are not planning any boats at all but planes instead In any shape or form, with any mechanics, it would mean hopping on your boat and moving on water surfaces. So that alone opens up world building possibilities as far as world design is concerned. And I sure hope these boats wouldn't be from lvl 140 only... since players, for a long time, been excited to travel rivers or something like Evendim on their little boats... making boats lvl 140 and only limited to specific locales/specific waters (and a middle finger from SSG for your alts!) would be like missing the entire point of the matter

[Arnand_the_Fox]

Well, why is there a second larger Mordor in the corner? Besieged? Is Besieged actually larger in terms of proportions than regular? Never picked up on it in game.

Na, Mordor Besieged is that smaller bit just to the north of the word "Anfalas" that I wrote on that map. I have no idea what the 2nd Mordor is for.

The Gondor territory has the 4 absolutely MASSIVE boxed areas, and two smaller boxed areas, in the northern section of its territory map. These match up with Minas Tirith, and the area around it, so I assume they're the holders for the different stages of the Battle at Pelennor fields, and other instanced versions of Minas Tirith. The 2n'd Mordor may be used for the same thing. But I can't think of what off the top of my head.

Sounds weird to me, why would they be. Eriador already may seem massive and I remember MiniExpBounder said there is still enough space on it to potentially expand into Forodwaith or do Farlindon. Maybe it's just that this height map does not cover max ground yet and can be extended? Or, from the looks of its size maybe it is actually the max size, because looks quite spacey and I specifically said if they moved things - that would include moving some of these things onto another layer, potentially, and then moving everything North. That would provide a whole lot of space. They had to move Mordor Besieged, no doubt. Assuming they're doing Anfalas on After. Because otherwise it would be right out there, in the close proximity "on ocean." If they could do that with Besieged, it really shows they would be perfectly capable of doing that with some of these smaller instances out there. Time will tell.

You're not going to move everything north. That would require repositioning like.... every NPC, monster spawn, etc, and mess up ALL the coordinates for everything in these zones.

And yeah, the Eriador territory probably has the most open room for expansion.

[Phantion]

Well, it really doesn't matter though, unless you want to tell me they really are not planning any boats at all but planes instead In any shape or form, with any mechanics, it would mean hopping on your boat and moving on water surfaces. So that alone opens up world building possibilities as far as world design is concerned. And I sure hope these boats wouldn't be from lvl 140 only... since players, for a long time, been excited to travel rivers or something like Evendim on their little boats... making boats lvl 140 and only limited to specific locales/specific waters (and a middle finger from SSG for your alts!) would be like missing the entire point of the matter

Yeah, I guess they'd have to, if they needed Umbar in its own "territory," use the "sail into a loading screen" technique between the seas- which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Actually, if they want to be clever about it, they could do something similar as with the Gladdenmere - Caradhras connection by like, instead of riding into a blizzard, you're sailing into a storm at sea, "portal," and pop out on the other side of the storm. But the invisible walls could be immersion breaking.

I do have an idea for that. You know how the Gap of Rohan doesn't have a portal visible - you just ride through it? I wonder if they could actually figure out how to make "a whole stretch of landscape" into a "portal" - like a whole boundary line. So, instead of having to find 1 specific place to "portal" from one territory to another, it wouldn't matter. You could cross downriver or upriver from Far Anorien to the Eastfold. You could sail "across the territory boundary line" into a loading screen at any point. That would be my ideal!

But, if that's not possible, at least a "storm at sea contained near / around a landscape portal" would actually give greater freedom to imagine what the storm's like since, let's face it, they don't seem to be able to replicate ocean waves with their graphics. I'd rather have that than some unrealistic sailing through calm, soupy water with some rain in a supposed "storm" LOL! It could be a good cover to make that transition, and then I could imagine all sorts of crazy things happening while that loading screen pops-through. Maybe it could include even a special "screen" that has "storm at sea" art on it.

Ideally, I've LOVE for them to figure out how to make ocean waves. But I get the age and era of the graphics probably make that less possible.

Cheers!

[k40rne]

That sounds nice. You absolutely sure though? Not even with Advanced Dx10 Shadows or Ambient Occlusion (on bushes)? In motion, flickering/shimmering, at the edges, on shadows, bushes, branches, and other such "transparent' objects. If so, then no idea, maybe it's Nvidia specific problem, happened to me always on laptops and gaming monitor too, no matter the settings and it's there in bug queue... and probably untouched.

This setup is not on a laptop, and yeah I'd notice a flicker on a huge screen like this. No, I have RTX, but my partner used to play on a decent ASUS gaming laptop on the Hiseng 55" 4k that upscales too, which is a similar setup as mine, and her card was also Nvidia. And never any issue, keep in mind this is upscaled though on both, which is really all you need, and lets the tv do a good portion of the work & not such a heavy load on the video card.

[TesalionLortus]

And never any issue, keep in mind this is upscaled though on both, which is really all you need, and lets the tv do a good portion of the work & not such a heavy load on the video card.

What do you mean by upscaling though? Nvidia "Image Scaling"?

[k40rne]

What do you mean by upscaling though? Nvidia "Image Scaling"?

Upscaling is the AI processing in the TV, most new 2160P (4k) & 4320P (8k) will have upscaling now, the only part the video card handles is the 1080P aspect, the TVs have their own AI cpus. That's why I don't understand the need for native 4k (it's only slightly better in most cases), upscaling takes care of it with a hell of a lot less resources needed to be utilised in a pc.

4K native content means that the input resolution is already 3840x2160 (4K). Although both native and upscaled offer the same resolution, native 4K is better as the picture contains more detail. Using upscaling detail cannot be added.

So unless they're adding content detail that moves towards a 4k approach (which I don't believe Lotro is anywhere near yet), it shouldn't matter. The upscaling just expands what's already there, interpolating it with more pixels.