More Guardian Thoughts

[dudlord]

Ok, I don't use the forums enough to be good with the formatting so I wont have all the clean little bubble quotes for my responses to each of the proposed changes, I'll just name the trait and then respond.


Thrill of battle
-Cool. I dont mind the building/removing of the effect the way you proposed, besides the fact that It may be uneccessary compute power, and may have some weird interactions with cuts the way some other classes get double autocrits. Its fine overall though.


Heavy Weapons Damage
-Also cool. I noticed a lot of possible overall increases to block responses in red line, potentially opening some form of supportish Sword and board red, I'm glad this trait incentivises two-handers for damage gameplay. I'm all for the opportunity to have differering 2h vs SaB playstyles, as long as 2h is the go to for "damage dealing" intents.


Reactive parry
-meaningless trait. Lots of classes have them, so I wont say its by any means a big deal. Ideally this should be something more impactful though


Thrust
-ok some nuance to unpack here in terms of implication. Others have addressed the obvious Cooldown increase just completely throwing TtK count out the window, so I'll assume you already know about that. Something I think hasn't been clearly addressed is that removing the reliance on retaliation completely shakes up the current gameplay paradigm (in a bad way imo!).
-Currently paradigm is a full parry response chain every ~5.5 seconds, alternating between use of overwhelm and thrust.
-Because thrust no longer needs retaliation, now there is an incentive to use it immediately after overwhelm (to put the thrust bleed back up ASAP). This means youd now have one parry chain that will feel way too long, and one that will feel empty, really messing with the nice flow red guard currently has
-If you want to reduce reliance on parry chains ( I think this is the correct goal, dps lines should not be reliant on defensive procs!), you should instead alter the base of the chain, making retaliation/whirling not need parries instead of changing one of the skills in the middle.


Invigorating response
-on live this trait gives power when you crit with a parry response skill. the way you worded it sounds like youre changing it to give power with the response itself instead of the skills? if so that's not ideal, because as I said dps classes shouldnt rely on defensive procs. If it performs as it does on live where the power comes with crits with the SKILLs then this is fine.


To the rescue
-Fine


Warriors Fortitude
-Realistically I think all variants of warriors fortitude should just be specialization passives, but thats whatever. Adding block and partial block to this in red line is a lipservice change, because again DPS lines don't really care for these things. If it keeps its current offensive buffs though then its fine


Honorable combat (now rupture)
-offensive utility is something red guards were hurting for, so good job making a stab at addressing it! A few minor notes though
-5 tiers of this trait makes me ????. 1 would be fine? what do the other tiers do?
-12% at full power is a weird number. 20s duration is a balanced time for group utility, but a weird duration for self dps as youre going to take a third to half of that time to put your bleeds back up.
-considering your note about wanting red guard to be lower power than main line dps specs (you mentioned champ as the melee leader, but right now warden is probably the better measuring stick. Red burg is the highest but is so gated by fight mechanics its not a good standard) I have to ask if red guard is intended to be balanced around group play or just a landscape line? Depending on the answer to this you may want to change your numbers.


now for yellow

Force opening
-Cool. glad to have a parry opener in blue. Glad that in red this gives a block too so I have a means to use Catch a breath without sacking a vital parry response from dps rotation.


Bastion of light
-Like the idea, dont think the implementation is there yet. Considering the value of marking targets, not having and control of who you mark does not sound good. Also, only being able to mark 3 targets just feels bad considering the importance for both red and blue.
-For red, considering flash of light changes damage to light, I don't want to be dpsing a pack of like 8 and half of my damage is light and half is normal. Breaking the damage profile (and on random targets too!) sounds like a major pain to accomodate support wise. Which targets need bear pmit reduction? which need call of earendil?
-For blue, a line that thrives in mass target situations, I want my defensive debuffs rolling at max power (incapacitate) on as many targets as possible. I understand radiate is meant to assist with this, but in some situations you end up with so many targets that your aoe skills could very well not hit any of the 3 marked. 5 would probably be good enough though. Someone else mentioned making this ground target area, which i think would actually be a pretty cool implementation for this.


Light-touched
-Cool.


Radiate
-not really changed, so also cool


Protection
-this is a cool change so that blue can have this. It'll be a nice grab for 1 point, but not a big deal either way, so I'm pretty happy about it.


Flash of light
-see above comments about split damage profile mentioned with bastion of light.


Strong Bursts
-I don't particularly mind its current or proposed implementation, but I do think its worth asking if this trait thematically belongs in red maybe? (Also tangentially red guard has a gaping lack of any sort of AOE power or even play paradigm, but thats a much bigger scope issue than this trait)


manifested ire
-remove this trait, or make it something other than runspeed reduction. Noone wants that for any sort of enjoyable gameplay. If you made it something that reduced enemy damage when they stopped hitting guarding that would be pretty cool maybe, and sort of fit guardian thematically. Perhaps like cappy yellow mark, but only applies when enemies stop hitting the guardian for long enough, and obviously only for short/mid duration


mark of permanance
-If bastion of light is going to randomly go out on targets uncontrolably, this should be baked into it imo, Making people spend 1 extra point for it isnt the end of the world though


Incapacitate
-fine



Overall, relatively happy with the way things are going. Biggest concern about your proposed changes is the thrust impact on red line rotation. A few issues relatively unaddressed though
-Blue is still a little behind on group utility compared to Cappy Warden and Brawler
-Blue is still heavily weighted toward mass add tanking and has significantly less effective defensives against bosses (I recommend changing juggernaut to big damage reduction instead of block, easy fix that strengthens vs boss and marginally weakens vs mass adds)
-Red still has no AOE value, power, or play paradigm. (I recommend making overwhelm spread thrus instead of upgrade it when used after whirling!!)

Glad youre working on this though!

[zipfile]

It's only an upside trait. It's gained by simply speccing into what you want to spec into and I believe that the benefit can be adjusted by influencing the damage dealt back to the target.

What's an upside trait?
I'm sorry, but whatever you call it, it doesn't help the fact that it's a horrible trait designed horribly that offers no practical benefit to the gameplay. It doesn't alleviate any Guardian's gameplay, you have no control over it and on top of it, you can make the damage be insanely high, but it's irrelevant cause red Guardian isn't supposed to be hit in a group setting.

Yes. I didn't comment on this one before because I had not worked out my thoughts and was considering that it might just stay. But, looking at it and playing with it...it's weak sauce.

I am thinking that it might just need to increase damage on targets that are:

a) under a health threshhold
b) under the effects of a bleed
c) under the effects of the guardian's debuff

A) No, locking a passive damage source behind a morale threshold doesn't seem right.
B) It's already under a Bleed, Slashing Wound. And it's garbage damage.
C) ...no...just scrap the idea of it entirely

Maybe...

Hopefully you'll look more into it, more info here

I don't think I was clear on how the mark would work. The Mark would allow the debuffs to be applied, it would not directly apply the debuffs so the efficacy of Insult to Injury is still viable. Likely in getting the debuffs to apply at very near to 100%

Okay then, seems fine.

Bolster, definitely. Tenderize, maybe, but there feels like more theren.

What do you mean?

WH would still require a skill play, but the modifiers from the other traits are just passively applied.

I'm not quite following this.

I think it's perfectly fine for a gained trait for speccing into the line. It gives a small damage boost and helps you trigger your responses more often. Maybe a small damage retort could be added, but its a freebie. I think it mostly okay where it is.

Except that:

• It's bugged, it doesn't refresh in combat
• It's 10m radius, far too small
• Parry reactions AOE is also 10m, far too small
• The damage buff is strictly melee, should be converted into all

[SSG_Orion]

What's an upside trait?

It's a free trait that you don't need to spend anything on to get. And not every trait needs to be group-based.

B) It's already under a Bleed, Slashing Wound. And it's garbage damage.

I think you missed the intent here, if the target is currently bleeding you "Prey on the Weak" and deal more damage.

Any bugs will be fixed.

[zipfile]

It's a free trait that you don't need to spend anything on to get. And not every trait needs to be group-based.

Okay, so under that logic, completely gut the following traits:

• Beorning
  
  • Bond of Trust
• Burglar
  
  • A Small Snag
  • Reveal Weakness Yellow
  • Joke With Legs
• Captain
  
  • Last Stand (yes, once again)
  • Master of War
  • Cutting Edge
  • Reform The Lines
  • Gift of Spirit
• Champion
  
  • Ardour Increase
  • Furious Swings
• Guardian
  
  • Guardians Defence
  • Strengthen The Bullwark
  • Bolstering Blocks
  • Shield The People
• Hunter
  
  • Swift Release
  • Archer's Mark
  • Swift Mercy
  • Marksman
• Lore-master
  
  • Warding Lore
  • Herb Lore
  • Advanced Knowledge of Cures
  • Force of Will
• Minstrel
  
  • Triumphant Spirit
  • Call to Ioreth
  • Rally!
  • Haste
  • Cry of the Valar
• Rune-keeper
  
  • Frost Affinity
  • Rousing Words
  • Fellowship Narrative
  • Glorious Foreshadowing
  • Our Fates Entwined
  • Fire Affinity
  • Essay Of Fire
  • Seething Truth
  • Lightning Affinity
  • Tale of the Storm
  • Static Surge
• Warden
  
  • Shield-mastery
  • Shield-tactics
  • Proactive Defence
  • Grand Master Weapons Training
  • Martial Fury

After all, these are freebie traits and should not be impactful at all given that.

[Rino90]

We want the off-DPS specs to be within about 90% of the main DPS rotations when played well. In this case, the guardian would be weighed against the expected melee sustained DPS leaaders, Champion.

If a red guardian with less damage has no other advantages over profile DPS classes, then a significant part of the red line's redesign is lost.

[SSG_Orion]

Okay, so under that logic, completely gut the following traits:

After all, these are freebie traits and should not be impactful at all given that.

You have it really bad for this trait.

Here's the thing. You are looking at the functionality, only as it influences group play. For individual play you will get parry or block responses and the damage will fire. Now, I will freely admit that the damage output on the trait is abysmal - that needs to be adjusted to make it worthwhile... and as I am typing this, maybe there is a compromise.

Something that assists in the utility aspect for group dynamics and personal value.

Bear in mind, the damage needs to come up - that is a given.

What if we move it down to 15 into The Keen Blade and we move Protection by the Sword to 10.

Protection by the Sword now reads "Boosts melee damage of you and fellowship members. Enables you to react to an attack that is blocked, parried, or evaded by a fellowship member under your protection within 10m.", but Reactive Parry becomes Cause and Effect

Cause and Effect

Cause and effect increases the range of your benefical response effects to 20m.
Cause and effect deals damage back to attackers that are partially or fully blocked, parried, or evaded by those under the effect of Protection by the Sword. (Damage to be determined but scales with level.)

[Rino90]

Rupture is not a debuff, it's a skill modifier.

I understand that Rupture modifies Hammer Down, but eventually the target will be debuffed for incoming damage. That's what the question was about.

[Perks]

On Rupture, since I am monitoring other places as well. There are some concerns about this being a cashout.

It is possible that it will change. I could see a place where it is a cashout, that re-applies a heftier bleed that lasts as long as the damage buff - but, it is meant to be an additive to the rotation not a detraction. Nothing set in stone.

And, there are some questions on my conservative approach to numbers. TBH, my original take on Minstrel revamp and Champion revamp from way, way, back in the day has me hesitant. The numbers will work out. We want the off-DPS specs to be within about 90% of the main DPS rotations when played well. In this case, the guardian would be weighed against the expected melee sustained DPS leaaders, Champion.

Respectfully ofc, where are you getting your data from? I mean, Champ is not the expected melee sustained dps leader, If any melee dps is, its Burg and Warden. Also, why are you even nerfing red Guardian based on this 90% of a dpser. What even quantifies a real dpser lol. Is red Guard not a real dpser?

[SSG_Orion]

I understand that Rupture modifies Hammer Down, but eventually the target will be debuffed for incoming damage. That's what the question was about.

I am sorry, I completely misunderstood where you were going with this. The answer would be yes. It would, when radiated out, apply to other nearby marked enemies.

[zipfile]

Cause and Effect

Cause and effect increases the range of your benefical response effects to 20m.
Cause and effect deals damage back to attackers that are partially or fully blocked, parried, or evaded by those under the effect of Protection by the Sword. (Damage to be determined but scales with level.)

No.

Edit: Okay, maybe, but why Level scaled? Make it scale with mastery. Make it give BPE as well so it occurs more.

But at the end of the day, it'll still be a bad trait. This is the perfect spot to make a trait that gives you more parry responses, more damage or something to help with the Guardians rotation, you know, things a Guardian actually struggles with.

[SSG_Orion]

Respectfully ofc, where are you getting your data from? I mean, Champ is not the expected melee sustained dps leader, If any melee dps is, its Burg and Warden. Also, why are you even nerfing red Guardian based on this 90% of a dpser. What even quantifies a real dpser lol. Is red Guard not a real dpser?

Champion is our benchmark DPS melee class.

Yes, it is lagging behind at the moment, but it will be adjusted to bring it back up.

The 90% is a yardstick. We know that the meta shifts and that tweaks we make push this one way or another time to time. Our goal is to get all types of DPS lines to within 10% of one another in terms of stock damage output. It's not a hard rule - it's a goal to get the damage close so that no one class is considered worthless as a DPSer. Now, with that said, it might be time that we look at the value and tighten it even more. There is, however, the matter of those who are truly adept at utilizing the animation cuts to such great effect that they parse much higher than the typical player.

We're willing to adjust, but we do have metrics that we use as guideposts. Hope that clarifies.

[Perks]

Champion is our benchmark DPS melee class.

Yes, it is lagging behind at the moment, but it will be adjusted to bring it back up.

The 90% is a yardstick. We know that the meta shifts and that tweaks we make push this one way or another time to time. Our goal is to get all types of DPS lines to within 10% of one another in terms of stock damage output. It's not a hard rule - it's a goal to get the damage close so that no one class is considered worthless as a DPSer. Now, with that said, it might be time that we look at the value and tighten it even more. There is, however, the matter of those who are truly adept at utilizing the animation cuts to such great effect that they parse much higher than the typical player.

We're willing to adjust, but we do have metrics that we use as guideposts. Hope that clarifies.

So the whole idea of the best dps being Hunter and Champ is back on the design philosophy? Cuz onm said that was dropped, and that was 7 months ago during the Mini update.

nvm what i just said i read that completely wrong.

[SSG_Orion]

Okay, maybe, but why Level scaled? Make it scale with mastery. Make it give BPE as well so it occurs more.

By level scaled I only mean that it would not be based on percentages. Instead it would be based on a progression. What feeds that progression is not defined yet, because we are literally just discussing this now.

But at the end of the day, it'll still be a bad trait. This is the perfect spot to make a trait that gives you more parry responses, more damage or something to help with the Guardians rotation, you know, things a Guardian actually struggles with.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are asking for, but if the Toggle Skill Protection by the Sword provides you and your fellowship with a flat 5% damage bonus, and enables you to react to BPE responses - including partials - from your affected fellowship members, are you not getting more parry responses - at least while in fellowship play.

Then, in addition, when Cause and Effect is gained that range is increased, and a damage response is tied to BPE and partial BPE; are we not giving Guards more potential responses and covering a bit of utility in fellowships/raids?

[Rino90]

I am sorry, I completely misunderstood where you were going with this. The answer would be yes. It would, when radiated out, apply to other nearby marked enemies.

Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to know. How will the debuff on increasing incoming damage interact with yellow branch talents. You answered about Radiate. Now let's figure out how this debuff will interact with the Bastion of Light mark and the Insult to Injury and Mark of Permanence talents. Can it become permanent, will there be an opportunity to update its duration?

[zipfile]

By level scaled I only mean that it would not be based on percentages. Instead it would be based on a progression. What feeds that progression is not defined yet, because we are literally just discussing this now.

Okay...still....

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are asking for, but if the Toggle Skill Protection by the Sword provides you and your fellowship with a flat 5% damage bonus, and enables you to react to BPE responses - including partials - from your affected fellowship members, are you not getting more parry responses - at least while in fellowship play.

Then, in addition, when Cause and Effect is gained that range is increased, and a damage response is tied to BPE and partial BPE; are we not giving Guards more potential responses and covering a bit of utility in fellowships/raids?

3% melee damage...

Now, what if the tank isn't around? Plenty of times, especially in recent content, (one of the) tank(s) is somewhere halfway to Bree from wherever you are.
Have fun rolling the dice for 25% chance to get a Parry cause we keep insisting on not making that stupid essence a base trait.

Sure, you'll give more Parry responses, but technically, under ideal circumstances, Guardian already gets that. However, they need to be able to generate more on their own for optimal play, and that's been a thorn in DPS Guardian's side since....honestly, Shadows of Angmar.

[SSG_Orion]

Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to know. How will the debuff on increasing incoming damage interact with yellow branch talents. You answered about Radiate. Now let's figure out how this debuff will interact with the Bastion of Light mark and the Insult to Injury and Mark of Permanence talents. Can it become permanent, will there be an opportunity to update its duration?

Mark of Permanence is likely going away. It's just...too much. Additionally, ItI triggers, combined with spreads would likely keep the debuffs up near to permanently as is.

Now, the real question is - is the 12% increase to incoming damage too high, when doubled with Incapacitate. Probably. That would be a pretty incredible buff. So, while spitballing here it might need to come down, but that is what discussion is for.

Obviously there are still questions on how to really get these balanced out.

[deadwoodd]

Champion is our benchmark DPS melee class.

Yes, it is lagging behind at the moment, but it will be adjusted to bring it back up.

The 90% is a yardstick. We know that the meta shifts and that tweaks we make push this one way or another time to time. Our goal is to get all types of DPS lines to within 10% of one another in terms of stock damage output. It's not a hard rule - it's a goal to get the damage close so that no one class is considered worthless as a DPSer. Now, with that said, it might be time that we look at the value and tighten it even more. There is, however, the matter of those who are truly adept at utilizing the animation cuts to such great effect that they parse much higher than the typical player.

We're willing to adjust, but we do have metrics that we use as guideposts. Hope that clarifies.

For the love of god, please make this actually happen. Other DPS should be within 10% of Champ and Hunter - the latter classes being ahead of the rest. The two leading DPS classes. Champ needs some serious love - we are in sad times with the state of the class at the moment.

[SSG_Orion]

Now, what if the tank isn't around? Plenty of times, especially in recent content, (one of the) tank(s) is somewhere halfway to Bree from wherever you are. Have fun rolling the dice for 25% chance to get a Parry cause we keep insisting on not making that stupid essence a base trait.

Sure, you'll give more Parry responses, but technically, under ideal circumstances, Guardian already gets that. However, they need to be able to generate more on their own for optimal play, and that's been a thorn in DPS Guardian's side since....honestly, Shadows of Angmar.

I hear you. You dislike this idea. Fair.

[SSG_Orion]

Thanks for the discourse this afternoon and evening. I've enjoyed it and have to take some things back to the white board to refine. More soon.

[zipfile]

Thanks for the discourse this afternoon and evening. I've enjoyed it and have to take some things back to the white board to refine. More soon.

./thumbs_up

Let's see what happens next...

[Rino90]

Mark of Permanence is likely going away. It's just...too much. Additionally, ItI triggers, combined with spreads would likely keep the debuffs up near to permanently as is.

Now, the real question is - is the 12% increase to incoming damage too high, when doubled with Incapacitate. Probably. That would be a pretty incredible buff. So, while spitballing here it might need to come down, but that is what discussion is for.

Obviously there are still questions on how to really get these balanced out.

I'm asking a lot of questions about this particular debuff for increasing incoming damage because it's the most valuable of all the guardian debuffs. I think you'll agree that, depending on how it interacts with the yellow line talents, the result can be dramatically different, which is why I spend so much time on it.

My opinion on this. I totally agree with you about Mark of Permanence, it's too much. As for being able to copy 12% debuff to incoming damage with Radiate and prolong it with Insult to Injury (i.e. if you're lucky, keep it permanently on the main target), that could be one of the strongest things about red guardian revamp and a serious reason to be allowed to raid.
As for Incapacitation. I think the 24% debuff should not be left with the ability to copy and update it at the same time. Some interaction should be abandoned, or the debuff itself should be reduced to 6-9% (12-18% with Incapacitation) and keep its interaction with Insult to Injury and Radiate.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are asking for, but if the Toggle Skill Protection by the Sword provides you and your fellowship with a flat 5% damage bonus, and enables you to react to BPE responses - including partials - from your affected fellowship members, are you not getting more parry responses - at least while in fellowship play.

There is another problem with Protection by the Sword. It should be used on a tank to get responses and extra damage from Cause and Effect, but the tank in the raid is usually in a different party than the damage classes. As I remember, if you use Protection by the Sword on a member of another party, the damage increase buff (so is it 5% total damage, or just melee damage?) doesn't apply.

Protection

Trained Toggle Skill
Increases Fellowship BPE 1%
Can react to Block and Parry triggered by fellow members within 10m

20+

I agree with Zipfile. There's not much point in redirected responses on the blue line, especially since we get easy access to Force Opening, and 1% BPE is a very weak buff. In the red line, we already have Protection by the Sword, which gives us intercept responses from the tank, and it's not really clear why we need another skill like that. A better solution would be to turn Protection into a booster for Protection by the Sword and Shield Wall. That way we avoid too many skill toggles and strengthen Shield Wall, which could use a change.

I think the issue with bleeds, is that they sometimes fall victim to fight mechanics. Damage needs to be more consistently output. This may come in te form of straight skill DPS or bleeds, but for the bleeds to have more potency and viability, they need to maximize in a shorter preiod of time. Tough, not so short a time that you could not maximize the other aspects of the rotation - should we push forward on the Rupture trait.

I think the guardian's bleeds should be changed similar to the captain's changes. Reduce their duration to 12 seconds and allow them to deal damage every second. Duration of more than 12 seconds for guards DOTs is useless because on the one hand the same DOTs do not stack and on the other hand it is impossible to reduce the frequency of using skills causing bleeding because of the emerging delays in rotation.

[BotLike]

I enjoyed reading through this , a lot will depend on execution , values , balancing etc. The ideas are there and some forum posters only enriched them.

Regarding disorientation. It's complete garbo , always has been and it needs to go. I was very glad to read you consider changing it.
The idea of the skill has potential imo. Some form of debuff , caused by some shield skill.

I would do this : Move it to yellow , tie it exclusively to shield-smash and make it apply a debuff on the enemy which allows your next shield skill to 100% land and critically hit. Why ? For gauranteed fortification stacks. So that you have a tool which you KNOW will provide you with 1-2 stacks ( 1 for shield-blow , 2 for shield-swipe for example ) when you trait and rotate for it. No relying on just RNG or lame shield spike trait swapping. Also , the requirement for a shield smash first , makes it balanced enough , because you won't have it available early into combat - but only after you rotate your shield skills at least once. I'd love something like that to get my fort stacks back more reliably after using break ranks.

Regarding adaptability. I wouldn't bother changing its' effects. For a passive set bonus it's completely fine imo. Its' design kinda makes sense and the tracery makes it okish. The problem is the removal from response skills. Shouldn't you lose 1 stack when you FULLY B/P/E and gain stacks when you get hit or partially hit instead ??? So for example , if i pledge , i lose the buff quickly. And when i start getting hit again , i start regaining it ? Sometimes the simple solution is more then enough i think.

And lastly , regarding shield wall. This skill is one of the most iconic for guardian , fits the class role perfectly. And yet .... it pains me inside to say , in vast majority of situations , it's absolute GARBAGE. Most people call litany risky. Right... Not even close bro. Litany is nothing in comparison and has some really nice uses. Shield wall on the other hand , can get you deleted within a second. The mighty guardian , protector of the free peoples , makes the mistake of trying to protect an ally , be it a healer or a DPSer and kaboom , dead in 2 seconds. The only good thing shield wall has going for it is the balancing measures/limitations , meaning it's long cooldown ( 20 sec after deactivation i believe ? ) , disabling BPE from the target and removal of the skill entirely if guardian gets CCed. These are good things and i am not asking on any change for these. But why is it left as raw , unmitigated damage ? I remember an older set that reduced the damage redirected to the guardian by 33% , so the tech to do something about it is there already. Can't you change it somehow ? Make you receive the damage over several seconds maybe ? Or maybe make redirect skill , apply it's effects on the shield wall target damage too ? There are so many things you can do. Just please , don't leave the skill like this. It makes no sense it can kill the guardian so easily................... Most of the times , you feel PUNISHED and STUPID for using it , cause you just DIE. PLEASE , do smth with shield wall , guardian and this iconic skill both deserve it.

I don't want to comment on the rest of the red/yellow changes , because others already did a fairly good job and at this point , it seems we are still on the drawing board.
Will wait to see an early version , hopefully on a beta round.

Thank you for your communication and your general openess to dialogue.

[zipfile]

Would it be possible to move Blocking Expertise and Skilled Deflection into Yellow and merging them into a single trait, and have the original spots occupied by some new traits?

I long for the days of Shield Of Fire trait for Blue (extra threat and targets on Shield-taunt) and I remember that for a while, Guardian's Ward gave a buff when used in Overpower stance (I think it was Finesse, why not change make it so Guardian's Ward while active gives Mastery, as Guardian struggles to get benefit from stats anyway, especially in Red)

However, one thing we should look at are bugs. Perhaps making a separate sticky thread with request to document all the bugs we can find along with reproduction methods (backed up by a video) could help us out.

[Thunderblast]

For starters, I'm not going to try to quote everything here. So much is being discussed that I'm just going to weigh in on the subject without quotes so that my post isn't too hard to scroll past.


On the subject of Adaptability:

Believe it or not, I actually was fairly happy with Adaptability the way it was. However, one thing that I didn't understand is why it needs to reset when you use a response skill. Just give it a duration (15 seconds sounds about right) and make it un-refresh-able at tier III. Out of Orion's 3 options that he floated as an update, I am most interested in option 2 (the mitigation-based option). Crit-defense isn't really a Guardian issue, and finesse is only an issue for Guardians who choose their essences/gear unwisely.


On the subject of Reactive Parry/Reactive Response:

I'm honestly not that concerned with it. It's a trait that only has any effect solo, but then again there are so many traits like this that I don't see what the big deal is. Arguably the biggest news of update 35, the Stand Alone stance for Captains, is only useful solo. Does that mean it shouldn't exist? No. Besides, there are worse traits. Take the Taking Advantage trait from Recklessness Warden, for instance. It's even more useless, even when solo as well as in a group.

Imo, the ideal trait spec should have one impactful set bonus. For Defender of the Free, that's Bolstering Blocks. For Lead the Charge Captain, that's Last Stand. The root of the issue that I think Zipfile and others have with Reactive Response is that Keen Blade Guardian doesn't have such a set bonus. In my opinion, the mend for this would be to have Bleed Them Dry make all Guardian bleeds pulse once per second. Then Keen Blade Guardians would get a meaningful set bonus of some sort.


On the subject of Rupture:

As long as there are no traits that interact with it and increase its potency, +12% incoming damage for 20 seconds sounds about perfect. While it will require a bleed cashout, it will get you a debuff about 1/3 the strength of Oathbreaker's Shame and with much higher uptime. This sounds like a capstone that could finally see Keen Blade Guardians occasionally picked as DPS. But only as long as there are no traits that increase duration/potency or spread the Rupture debuff. See below about Fighter of Shadow traits.


On the subject of Fighter of Shadow:

I would really rather see Bastion of Light be a hotspot rather than an aura. For one thing, (and don't quote me on this, I'm a little rusty here) having the servers calculate distances is way less efficient that having the servers judge location. To calculate a distance the server needs to use Pythagorean theorem, so distance = square-root( distanceHorizontal^2 + distanceVertical^2). To judge location, the server only needs to see if the x position and y position of the character are within the bounds of the hotspot. So, it's way easier on the servers to have Bastion of Light be a hostpot rather than an aura.


For Fighter of Shadow traits:

0+ ranks

Bastion of Light
Grants the skill Bastion of Light, which increases miss chance for all enemies in the hotspot.

5+ ranks

Radiate
Increases size of the hotspot and number of targets for Bastion of Light.

10+ ranks

Incapacitation
Adds a weak run speed and attack duration debuff to enemies effected by Bastion of Light, up to 3 ranks. Max rank is -20% run speed and +30% attack duration.

15+ ranks

Flash of Light
Striking a target effected by Bastion of Light deals a pulse of scaled Light damage to all targets effected by Bastion of Light. Cannot trigger more than once every 3 seconds.

Blinding Light (requires Flash of Light)
Targets hit by a Flash of Light pulse have a 20% chance of having their next attack automatically miss.

[zipfile]

I'm honestly not that concerned with it. It's a trait that only has any effect solo, b

Yes, nothing is as impactful solo as trait that deals 4000 common damage when you parry a hit, that's level scaled, that is not affected by any damage sources, is not increased by mastery, cannot critically hit...