Totally not cool.

[Rawlor]

You can read any of our forums without logging in.

Oh and... I R DUDE (I mean there are pictures and everything!)

lol, poor Sapience, continually having to explain to the unaware that you are in fact a guy, and also are not Patience.

[Sapience]

lol, poor Sapience, continually having to explain to the unaware that you are in fact a guy, and also are not Patience.

It is only through Patience and Sapience that I am able to make it through my day.

[IamAkkim]

lol, poor Sapience, continually having to explain to the unaware that you are in fact a guy, and also are not Patience.

Perhaps he should change his name to Mr. Patient? =)

--Akkim

[Sapience]

Perhaps he should change his name to Mr. Patient? =)

--Akkim

I could change it to Wisdom, but I imagine you guys would have a field day with that.

[Manderero]

I'm curious - and haven't had the time to look... Did Turbine mention their intent to use this company before the wall went up - or was it something that just appeared?

Based on the overwhelming responses on this thread and the DDO forums, I'm guessing that Turbine did not mention anything - or people would have been upset before the damage was done.

I am also curious to know why Turbine would want to partner up with an outside company to offer points for their games... It might get more people to the game - but I see more downsides or logistic issues that arise. To me, its not worth the slight benefit of attracting a few more people. There are other ways to market.

[redwoodtreesprite]

Wrong, it is your game account and game email address.

And if you just read any of the threads with links to the Wall, if you use default firefox, guess what. Your browser auto clicked the link and sent your data due to the "Prefetch" feature.

I have sense turned that feature off. I have no idea if I.E, Opera, or Chrome have a similar feature, but I'd be surprised if they don't.

Hey, thanks for that info. I did not know about the Prefetch feature in Firefox. Because of your post, I just turned it off. Already have No Script set up with Firefox. Gotta be as safe and smart as is possible when surfing the net.

[Thane9]

If I were an MMO maker right now I'd stay away from third party "enhancements" and just let my competition crash and burn on their own.

For people following these things, it's abundantly clear that there have been some pretty big SNAFUs lately. And this one is the LEAST offensive. Good to know it's getting cleaned up however.

[1batou]

The point is that no matter what happens negative within the framework of a business, it does not always stem from corporate policy or a company-wide accepted mandate. Usually, there are individuals who the buck stops at....and those individuals are more than happy to try to pass that buck - even though it's sticking to their hand. Give Turbine a pass on this one infraction. Realize that it only takes the action of one thoroughly stupid INDIVIDUAL to tarnish a company.

That's just making someone a scapegoat. "Oh, this isn't Turbines doing, it's all Fred's fault!" Sorry, but whoever is behind this represents Turbine. They had an interview to determine their suitability, they are paid by Turbine, and they should have a manager who has some idea what they are doing. Not only that but this had to have been approved by several people before they went ahead and pushed it live.

Turbine went down in my opinion with this stunt. I like Lotro and I'm happy to keep playing, but the minute they pull something like that over here I'm gone.

[bprorsum]

So let me get this right... Turbine executives decide to contract with a "OMG FREE STUFF NOW IF YOU JUST CLICK THIS LINK (and sell us your soul for permanent spam the rest of your life)!!!" company in order to generate some more revenue for a game that is FREE to play, you have to actually GO to this third-party site yourself and ACCEPT the offers there for anything to be transmitted, and this is somehow a horrible travesty worthy of an international war-crimes tribunal?

Yes, it's a shady site. That's why any sensible person would never go to it. Yes, it's a questionable deal for Turbine to make given the nature of the site, but it is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL for players. They've already shut it down while they investigate, so it's not like they have no conscience and don't care about their players.

And why would this ever been used for LotRO? LotRO is a subscription based game. It's not free. It doesn't need this kind of third-party income and offer scheme. So kindly remove your frilly undergarments from your intestines, guys.

Wow, your trolling knows no bounds...

[lf2536]

I could change it to Wisdom, but I imagine you guys would have a field day with that.

well, there are other languages you could choose from.

[Jilla]

lol, poor Sapience, continually having to explain to the unaware that you are in fact a guy, and also are not Patience.

He should change his "pew pew" avatar to this:



(forgive the artwork... I am working with Paint )

[Zarador]

I'm sorry, I guess I'm the cold hearted kill joy that sees things differently.

Your playing an online game FOR FREE that offers to sell you stuff for the game which is what most F2P games do. Prior to that, the game did not attract enough subscribers to be viable to the company. Instead of ditching the game or letting it die a slow death, you change it to F2P. Time passes and your making 500% more revenue because it's now free and attracts players, who ironically spend more on a free game .

Now they look to make even more revenue off another system that we saw blow up in their faces because of a poor choice and setup. But who were they looking to attract? Why of course, players who found free not quite enough. Players that still wanted the stuff that the other players were willing to pay for, for FREE.

Don't have a credit card? Don't want to really pay for stuff? Here's your chance! Almost sounds like those late night offers on the tube if you ask me. (Eyes glued to the screen, tell me more). What! A free cruise to Alaska on the Northwestern and a chance to be on TV just because your under booked and you can't afford to send it out half empty? Sign me up Captain Sig!

Seriously, they messed up on this one, but lets not forget who the target audience was.

It could have just as easily went the other way. Imagine if they were offering the equivalent of a "Spring Festival Horse" for legitimately filling out a survey (as SoE has done in the past) about online gaming for some foundation or requesting information on some new Hybrid by XYZ. You would have had posts here complaining how a free game gets preferential treatment over paid subscribers.

[0rdinary0wl]

This is really disappointing. With summer break coming up in a couple weeks I was planning on playing DDO again, not anymore though. If this is the kind of **** they are going to pull with that game, then I am staying the hell away from it. Sure LOTRO is not F2P, but that doesn't mean they couldn't come up with a way to implement it. Hell, they could outsource the my.lotro lotteries like this if they wanted to. Major **** up Turbine, lost a lot of trust for your company today.

[IamAkkim]

This is really disappointing. With summer break coming up in a couple weeks I was planning on playing DDO again, not anymore though. If this is the kind of **** they are going to pull with that game, then I am staying the hell away from it. Sure LOTRO is not F2P, but that doesn't mean they couldn't come up with a way to implement it. Hell, they could outsource the my.lotro lotteries like this if they wanted to. Major **** up Turbine, lost a lot of trust for your company today.

Let me ask this - because I don't completely get the rage ::

How far along in this thread had you gotten before you posted?
-- Did you just see "Ugh, this is horrid, die Turbine, DIE!!!" and join in?
-- Did you get to the point where people rationalized it?
-- Did you get to the point where Sapience posted the official announcement which included REMOVING the OfferWall?

I'm just curious - nothing against you at all.

--Akkim

[TsarithArcher]

Turbine is a for-profit business. Acknowledge, Accept, Move On.

As such, Turbine will do whatever they can to maximize profits for the least amount of effort. Acknowledge, Accept, Move On.

Turbine makes mistakes. Acknowledge, Accept, Move On.

This affects DDO not LOTRO. Acknowledge, Accept, Move On.

TINSTAAFL. Acknowledge, Accept, Move On.

HOWEVER, what I cannot accept and move on from is the fact that Turbine would stoop to a level that puts them no better than a No-Name Asian MMO Company or a desperate Start-Up Game Company.

I cannot accept and move on from the fact that a Top Tier Game Company would sacrifice their integrity by partnering with an infamously renown Scam Network that is one step removed from the Russian Business Network, the largest Crime Syndicate in the world, both online and irl.

I cannot accept and move on from Turbine becoming a Bottom-Feeder and attempting to profit on the naivete of their Customers and leading them like lambs to the slaughter, to be fleeced, deceived, tricked, and exploited by Spammers, Phishers, Hackers, and Criminals.

Sure, the Zygna Game Network is making money hand-over-fist through their partnership with SuperRewards. That doesn't make following in their footsteps to be a viable Business Decision. Zygna has Negative Rep and is facing Class-Action Lawsuits for their unethical and deceptive Business Practices. No one takes Zygna seriously and they are considered to be the anathema of the Gaming Industry. Apparently Turbine, is envious of Zygna and is choosing to do as they do. Do they not think that road won't lead them to the same destination as Zygna? Sure, they could make money hand-over-fist through their partnership with SuperRewards, just like Zygna has been doing, but in doing so they are positioning themselves to become spurned by the Gaming Industry for the exact same reason Zygna is.

This decision to partner with SuperRewards smacks of DESPERATION and GREED. Turbine has apparently sacrificed their Morals, their Integrity, and their Ethics for the promise from a Projection Analysis on their Bottom-Line, at the cost of their Reputation and their Long-Term Customers (and their Souls, if they have one).

There is a reason why SuperRewards changes it's Owner Name and their Business Address every 6 months. There is a reason why there are countless threads on Internet of people who have been fleeced by them. If a Business is judged by the friends it keeps, and by the Businesses it partners with, then Turbine has positioned themselves to be judged in a rather unflattering and despicable light.

Sure, SuperRewards claims to be a legitimate Business and hides behind the legal rhetoric that they are not responsible for the actions of their Clients whose deceptive Services, Spyware, Malware, they happen to Market. However, if they are so legitimate, why do they keep hiding from the disgruntled people they have taken advantage of by changing their Owner and Address to wipe the slate clean with the BBB and to evade the investigations of State Attorney Generals by moving operations to another State every couple of months? That's not what legitimate businesses do!

When Turbine made the choice to make DDO a F2P MMO, the world was shocked but eagerly watched. It was a bold and innovative move for a Top-Tier Game Company (highly regarded as the #2 MMO Game Company right behind Blizzard) to make a backwards step. Turbine had a positive Rep and everyone figured this was some kind of Business Savvy move and that Turbine surely must have some kind of brilliant Plan up their sleeves. So the world anxiously watched. However, the moment they partnered with SuperRewards it was clear that Turbine is not the "Innovator" and "Maverick" that everyone considered them to be. They were a follower, choosing to follow the worst kind of Business Model, willing to sacrifice their Reputation, their Integrity, their Ethics to maximize Profit in the worst kind of way. The only reason why the Game Industry is still watching Turbine now is the same reason people are fascinated to watch a Train Wreck happen.

What it comes down to is this:

If Turbine is willing to get into bed with a renown Spam Network, then what keeps them from selling their Customers out to the Russian Business Network for financial gain? How many millions are they anticipating to get from their partnership with SuperRewards? Well, they can get $10 per Customer from the Russian Business Network by packaging a Backdoor Rootkit with their DDO Installer. That's certainly a lot more than they will make from SuperRewards. If they would get into bed with a renown Spam Network, then what keeps them from handing over CC#s, Addresses, User Names & Passwords to any one willing to pay $3 per Customer?

Turbine has lost Trust. Turbine has lost Credibility. Turbine has no more Street Cred. Turbine no longer has a leg to stand on.

I guess Turbine wanted to outdo Mythic's scandal this week.

Turbine has lost one of their #1 Fan-Bois. I couldn't even login to LOTRO last night, sickened by this whole thing. I don't know if I can trust Turbine enough to continue being their Customer. For the same reason I won't touch a Zygna game with a 10-foot Pole (or any other Game Company that has unethical Business Practices/Partnerships), I don't know if I want to touch any Turbine game with a 10-foot Pole now. I know in the least, even if I do stay with LOTRO, I will be running to MyAccount.Turbine.com and entering a disposable CC#, fake Contact Info, and a disposable E-Mail Address, just like I do for any other questionable Company on the Internet. I also will be scrutinizing every connection that is made through their Web Services and their Game Client now as well...which in the end will probably be far more effort than is worth to play a Game.

This is probably my last post on the LOTRO Forums for a while. If I decide to leave over this, I will be back one last time to say "Goodbye" and to provide a "Lottery" sign-up sheet for those on Elendilmir and Vilya for all my Gold and non-BoA Inventory.

[MissingMinds]

I'm curious - and haven't had the time to look... Did Turbine mention their intent to use this company before the wall went up - or was it something that just appeared?

They did not. It was suddenly there and offered. (and gone the next day.)

[mjk47]

Looking at Marketroid's post, I am pleased to see that Turbine has done the right, indeed the only, thing. They have 'fessed up to making a mistake and taken down the offending system. They now need to demonstrate that they have fully learned the lessons from this debacle.

[Cerataindisaster]

Let me ask this - because I don't completely get the rage ::

How far along in this thread had you gotten before you posted?
-- Did you just see "Ugh, this is horrid, die Turbine, DIE!!!" and join in?
-- Did you get to the point where people rationalized it?
-- Did you get to the point where Sapience posted the official announcement which included REMOVING the OfferWall?

I'm just curious - nothing against you at all.

--Akkim

LOL.

Maybe you should reread the thread then if you don't understand the "rage" some are feeling. I dont always agree with people, but I generally understand where they are coming from with their opinions.

--the rationalizing this whole mess kind of went out the window with the simple fact they removed it.

--what did you expect them to do, say nothing? They are in damage control. They knew full well what they where getting themselves into with this, and that the most disturbing part for me.

[Ayrolen]

Turbine has lost one of their #1 Fan-Bois.

They still have Gildhur, so I think they'll be ok.

[Zarador]

Looking at Marketroid's post, I am pleased to see that Turbine has done the right, indeed the only, thing. They have 'fessed up to making a mistake and taken down the offending system. They now need to demonstrate that they have fully learned the lessons from this debacle.

Perhaps in some apology telling the players:

Were sorry, the game is F2P. If you don't have the money or a credit card to purchase the stuff we offer as a "premium" , we regret that. We do however offer another excellent game for just $10 a month with no added RMT fees. Thank you and have a good day!

[erikthe10man]

That's just making someone a scapegoat. "Oh, this isn't Turbines doing, it's all Fred's fault!" Sorry, but whoever is behind this represents Turbine. They had an interview to determine their suitability, they are paid by Turbine, and they should have a manager who has some idea what they are doing. Not only that but this had to have been approved by several people before they went ahead and pushed it live.

Turbine went down in my opinion with this stunt. I like Lotro and I'm happy to keep playing, but the minute they pull something like that over here I'm gone.

No matter who you wish to "burn at the stake", so to speak, Turbine is a for-profit-company and not a sentient being. Anyone who's had multiple job interviews (or in my case, been the person conducting them) knows that the process of recruitment/hiring does not tell you 100% how a person is. If that were the case, no one would ever get fired. No one outside of God can know ahead of time if someone has a twinge of stupidity, corruption, or absolute incompetence.

Also, you'll find that the further up the food chain a person in power is, the less scrutiny and accountability they tend to have. Autocratic behavior is RAMPANT in executive level entities, and it is not guaranteed that "several people" had the opportunity to approve the process. Even on the remote chance that this whole fiasco was scrutinized by multiple entities, it still can come down to the decision of the one holding the final say so.

That being said, this is the first time a situation of this magnitude has ever come about. If this was a trend, THEN I would call it a failure on the behalf of the company. Right now, it's an isolated incident - albeit a HUGE one.

[EthonaStarEVA]

...

Turbine, in no way can i, will i, ever support a company or group of people with this kind of integrity issues. this is flat out immoral and disrespectful to your company and your customers.

-goodbye

[Trilwych]

And if you just read any of the threads with links to the Wall, if you use default firefox, guess what. Your browser auto clicked the link and sent your data due to the "Prefetch" feature.

I have sense turned that feature off. I have no idea if I.E, Opera, or Chrome have a similar feature, but I'd be surprised if they don't.

Opera's "prefetch" feature is called "turbo." So in Opera, you would turn off "turbo" (which in 10 is a tiny icon in the lower left corner or through the Tools menu). I habitually surf in Opera without Flash, cookies, referrer, Java, or Javascript enabled--if I do anything that requires any of those (e.g. Gmail, Youtube, banking), I can enable specific browser features just for those domains. Yay for absolute control. But the vast majority of Internet users would never go that far.

And that's really a big part that bit many people, I guess, concerning this DDO fiasco. Even exercising a basic level of savvy and personal responsibility was not enough, from what I understand.

I also wonder if any email addresses already harvested and spammed will continue to be so, assuming they're now out in the wilds. I think it would take mere seconds for a harvester like that marketing company to turn around and resell such information. Once that happens, even if the addresses were removed from the initial database, they have no control over the mushroom effect.

[IamAkkim]

LOL.

Maybe you should reread the thread then if you don't understand the "rage" some are feeling. I dont always agree with people, but I generally understand where they are coming from with their opinions.

--the rationalizing this whole mess kind of went out the window with the simple fact they removed it.

--what did you expect them to do, say nothing? They are in damage control. They knew full well what they where getting themselves into with this, and that the most disturbing part for me.

My comment was based on the timing since (for the most part) the nature of his post seemed consistent with the first few pages and not the most recent developments. I was just trying to see if the mood of posters (on average) has kind of surfed that same wave.

As for what I expected them to do? I expected them to apologize, acknowledge and work to make amends. They've done that (granted, by simply removing the Wall, promising to change their philosophy regarding efforts along these lines)... so I was curious if the person posted had realized that things weren't the same (at the time of his/her posting) as when the thread originally opened.

Does that make sense?

--Akkim

[Grodo]

Open your eyes people...

"Is LOTRO dying?"
"Are subscriptions falling?"
"LOTRO devs have moved on"

Looks like these Chicken Littles were indeed on to something. It is obvious that desperate times required desperate actions and Turbine has indeed resorted to desperate actions.