Tower of Orthanc : playable ?

[Elfheart]

The Deed advancement requires you to be alive and inside the boss room within 30 seconds after completion of the fight.

If we aren't getting credit for downing the boss if we die during the encounter then the raid locks should not apply. It's not fair to have it count for the raid lock but not for the deed.

[jwbarry]

Lol... here we go talking in riddles again... if you're going to bring it up on the forums then just talk about or /bug it and move on.

Specifics: The trolls get a stacking buff that makes them take less damage until they are basically absorbing damage. You should be able to use CC to reset those buffs so they take damage again but it appears that this is bugged. If you change the kill order (ie. kill trolls first) you should be able to get around this problem... it will be a challenge to kill them fast enough but should be doable in theory.

So, we looked into the trolls and they appear to be working as intended, but we think we know where the confusion is coming from.
On tier 2 the trolls gain adaptation. The adaptation buffs and the fortification buffs use the same icon. So, fortification is in fact being stripped when a CC lands, but an adaptation is being added and the other adaptations aren't removed. This creates a case where it looks and feels like the fortification didn't remove even though it did.
We'll look at getting the fortification icon swapped out for something different.

[Grimdoin_EU]

I think it is technically not possible to not give all raidlocks... it would really bork up the raid if all of a sudden half of the group had locks. You wouldn't be able to continue either. Sad but true.

[Shiara]

It's a design choice that dead people don't get deed completion then? Why?

Because there is already tech in place to determine the composure of the group (the people in it) the moment the boss is dead regardless of whether they are alive or dead (ie who is eligible for the chest loot).

Why would you be eligible to loot the chest but not get the deed progress? May as well turn that off and make the dead people ineligible for chest too...... that just sounds like an awfully cruel thing to do on purpose that doesn't even make sense in-character since you were *there* for it, no matter which way you cut it.

[Comma44]

In the interest of putting things in perspective a bit, yes it sucks that the deed doesn't complete if you're dead... but it's not like this is the only time people are ever running the raid. I didn't get my deed done for lightening boss since I was dead but I got other bosses down so I bartered for different armur pieces. Next week I'll know to be smarter and that I need to be alive to get that deed, if you're dead everytime a boss figt ends for the rest of this patch then you have bigger issues than completing a deed. Just try again next week, if gear wasn't so easy to get now most of you wouldn't even care about the deed not completing on week one.

[Moripopori]

has anyone tried ring of fire an ice t2 yet? seems kinda impossible to reduce the giants rage, been killin frost/fire/shadow grims several times now, nothin really happens... anythin buged in that enc? any info?

[Burio]

Were you on tier 2?
Were they continuing to respawn during the fight or as part of the reset?

On tier 2 the adds work like the boglurkers from OD did, the adds of a wave will only stop if they are all dead at the same time. Each add in a wave will respawn in 10 or so seconds after being defeated. So the whole wave needs to be dropped within a 10 second window in order to beat the wave and turn those spawns off.

If that's what was happening then it's by design. If the respawn was involved with a reset and immediately getting guys on re-entering then please elaborate more.

Other raids, say the adds don't respawn. I doubt they kill them in a 10 sec windows.

To be honest, 10 sec for adds with bubbles, heal corruptions and heal field, you can't do that by accident. I don't know how other groups handle it, but it seems really lucky if you can pull this off every wave.

[Shiara]

In the interest of putting things in perspective a bit, yes it sucks that the deed doesn't complete if you're dead... but it's not like this is the only time people are ever running the raid. I didn't get my deed done for lightening boss since I was dead but I got other bosses down so I bartered for different armur pieces. Next week I'll know to be smarter and that I need to be alive to get that deed, if you're dead everytime a boss figt ends for the rest of this patch then you have bigger issues than completing a deed. Just try again next week, if gear wasn't so easy to get now most of you wouldn't even care about the deed not completing on week one.

But it's still a bad design decision, because it can stack with other things to cause issues - see Appendix A: Ivar's Champion; Appendix B: Draigoch 1.0, etc. See the kins which aren't hardcore raiders but try their best and struggle to manage to take it down and that's as far as they'll ever get. I don't think we can just not ask for it to be fixed now because it doesn't really affect anything now; it's still a silly/nonsensical grind/punishment mechanic (?) that has potential to cause many more problems in the future.

You can make the same argument for the chest being only lootable by those that are alive, which was what I was presenting as a devil's advocate argument.

[swordmonkey]

The Deed advancement requires you to be alive and inside the boss room within 30 seconds after completion of the fight.

Ah see, I was defeated but not dead. Clearly I should get the deed completed no? Not dead yet!

[swordmonkey]

In the interest of putting things in perspective a bit, yes it sucks that the deed doesn't complete if you're dead... but it's not like this is the only time people are ever running the raid. I didn't get my deed done for lightening boss since I was dead but I got other bosses down so I bartered for different armur pieces. Next week I'll know to be smarter and that I need to be alive to get that deed, if you're dead everytime a boss figt ends for the rest of this patch then you have bigger issues than completing a deed. Just try again next week, if gear wasn't so easy to get now most of you wouldn't even care about the deed not completing on week one.

Yeah its not a big deal if the deed completes on tier 2...Maybe JWB can confirm this?

[MarkoftheRealm]

It's a design choice that dead people don't get deed completion then? Why?

Because there is already tech in place to determine the composure of the group (the people in it) the moment the boss is dead regardless of whether they are alive or dead (ie who is eligible for the chest loot).

Why would you be eligible to loot the chest but not get the deed progress? May as well turn that off and make the dead people ineligible for chest too...... that just sounds like an awfully cruel thing to do on purpose that doesn't even make sense in-character since you were *there* for it, no matter which way you cut it.

I totally agree. It makes no sense to me. And I think it unfairly punishes squishies. It also doesn't take into account how, as a healer, I may have been fully responsible for the success of the fight, keeping everyone alive and going, possibly even taking a sacrifice towards the end to keep up the tank (when it was a choice between me or him/her dying).

It really is a cruel decision to force on the healer. Now I have to decide whether to let someone else go down in order to make sure I'm alive at the end to get my deed done.

[YesMaam]

It is very playable. If you really read through the list and look at each item, not simply the number of items, you'll note they are mostly cosmetic and minor in nature. They are not things that impact the overall playability and functionality of the raid. If they did, they would have been fixed pre-launch. This list is predominantly polish level items. All of the wings and all the bosses are fully playable.

While the goal is always to release the most polished and bug free content possible, there comes a point where you have to judge the list of issues you have, the severity of those issues, and the desire to get the content out to the players in a timely fashion. While they are bugs, and they will be fixed, nothing on this list is severe enough or breaks the raid and causes it to be unplayable.

Playable and inaccessible are 2 different things. I wouldn't mind if the ticket was auto-closed, cause its so hard to open a gate right. After spending a considerable amount of time clearing trash and resetting it due to several gate bugs we gave up. This really has gone too far.

Update: The gate re-opened after 20 minutes of waiting.

Jw, this has happened in every new instance in update 5. Every gate in the raid. If a member is behind the gate spawn point when its closed it bugs out 50% of the time.

[swordmonkey]

It is very playable. If you really read through the list and look at each item, not simply the number of items, you'll note they are mostly cosmetic and minor in nature. They are not things that impact the overall playability and functionality of the raid. If they did, they would have been fixed pre-launch. This list is predominantly polish level items. All of the wings and all the bosses are fully playable.

While the goal is always to release the most polished and bug free content possible, there comes a point where you have to judge the list of issues you have, the severity of those issues, and the desire to get the content out to the players in a timely fashion. While they are bugs, and they will be fixed, nothing on this list is severe enough or breaks the raid and causes it to be unplayable.

Oh really, so why did the gate to kalbek go down after a wipe so we couldn't kill lightning eh? We also had the doors to earlier trash pulls bug out as well.

Admit it, you rushed this raid so you could be competitive with star wars. But its just buggy as snot.

Update: Whats funny is one gm just closed the ticket, we filed more tickets and it opened as I was making this rage post. I love how gms are so random.

Sad how years old bugs are still present in the new raid.

[bfub467]

maybe if the gates bug out u should get in the room before you start it ey?
and hows it going in thar

[Nevril]

To Jw:
After leading the entire Ice&Fire for the first time, without any known strategy, in 9 at T1 after 4hrs of fighting and actually studing of the wing I died when the twins had 17K and didn't catch up the rez in combat in time... Deed uncomplete. I understood this is working as intended, but how can you say this is fair?
I'm not wining, I'm the raid leader of my kin so I'll do it again the next week, peace & love. But, imho, this is absolutely unfair and you should change it.

[Hrodberht]

The Deed advancement requires you to be alive and inside the boss room within 30 seconds after completion of the fight.

So how about you tie the lock to the deed so as not to doubly penalize people who were just unlucky, and let them try again without waiting a week ?

[revoked]

I agree this really is a pain, especially for light armour classes. We ended up with locks for acid last week because our raid leader forgot he had run it with another group and gave us all locks. Then this week, we had 2 healers and a few others go down, so had no rezzes available. I switched from DPS to heals, kept the group up for the rest of the fight (tier one obviously), and died right near the end. Though the mini had run back to rez as soon as the gates opened, I never got the rez, nor did a few others who were dead. So another week without the ability to buy the armour even though I have downed the boss.

We'll keep going and we're having fun..but just because you were dead does not mean you did not contribute to the kill and should not get the deed. In fact, the way this is now, if you die at the beginning and run back, stand outside the door without contributing anything more to the group, then run in after the remaining players beat it, you can get the deed, whereas those who contributed but died at the end will likely not get it (unless they are lucky on rezzes. If you don't have a mini with a group rez, most people are out of luck). I am not suggesting that people who weren't alive and in the room at the kill do not get the deed, far from it. Everyone in the raid contributes to beating the boss, whether or not they live all the way to the end.

[Valanur]

I want to go more in deep of the "doors bug" about wich, Swordmonkey and other pal wrote. We entered Frost and Fire T1 2 or 3 days ago and in 3rd pull when wiping, one hunter tried to fly away. As result, seems the door get bugged and stay closed when we retreat and come back all the way till it. We submitted a ticket, and luckyly, in 5-7 minutes a kind GM answer us, studied the thing and he fixed it (he enter the room in an avatar, active the mobs then dissappear, a well know trick used too in SG 2nd boss when the door get bugged too). Yesterday, we went to Lightning, and in 2nd pull, we didnt know where the door appears, so we decided stay as close of exit of the room as possible. We fail cos 3 ppl were stranded in the other side of the door. Well,ok wipe, we retreat and so aaaaand door stay closed. Anew we sent ticket hoping a GM would open it for us. This time we wait around 20min we discussed about if be better disband and enter the raid again, less time for repeat the only pull we advanced and so, but well we decided trust in GMs. After the waiting i saw the icon of "answered ticket". I checked it, and was an automated closure saying "isnt a known issue, so report a bug to study the thing for the future and so". I dont go to explain how our rage go up.

So we arrive at my questions, only two:

1.- Really the Doors Bug IS NOT a known issue? Think a lot more of ppl are suffering it but you still dont know about it???

2.- What is the Official Posture about this issue? The GMs should fix them if bug appears or not? I saw the can. But then, is a GMs decission fix it or not? I want to know this clear, cos next time i know if we had that damn bug by bad luck or something, we havent to wait and we have to restart all the ring (nice bug then). If the answer is au contraire (so the GMs Must help us), i would like all of them know they must do it.


We havent advanced very much in the raid still, but seems to me very prettyful designed, interesting pulls and bosses, and is a shame this kind of deceptions ruin the fun.

[Moripopori]

we picked fire and frost as our first tier 2 challenge an we re kinda stuck there... clueless even... really...

no matter what we try, killed the adds inside an outside the giants, killed frost add inside fire giant... kited them... no matter what it all seems not to decrease their rage lvl a serious amount... they ll just slowly increase to rage 10/11 and kill us... DPSd both giants same time, focused on just one of them... kinda lost for new strategies to try rite now... hope theres no bug bout the rage stuff in there... anyone else tried that tier 2? anies the experiences? havent tried the other wings yet...

[Southpa]

we picked fire and frost as our first tier 2 challenge an we re kinda stuck there... clueless even... really...

no matter what we try, killed the adds inside an outside the giants, killed frost add inside fire giant... kited them... no matter what it all seems not to decrease their rage lvl a serious amount... they ll just slowly increase to rage 10/11 and kill us... DPSd both giants same time, focused on just one of them... kinda lost for new strategies to try rite now... hope theres no bug bout the rage stuff in there... anyone else tried that tier 2? anies the experiences? havent tried the other wings yet...

Same as you.
There is precious little indication as to what is preceding the rage which makes this mostly a guessing game. It seems to build when someone dies - that much we've proven. It also seems to build right before the first Grims spawn...then steadily builds while fighting the Grims regardless of the different approaches we've taken - and we have taken lots of different approaches.

We've spent about 7 hours over 2 nights trying every variation on reasonable ideas and it always ended up with ginormous Shadow Stomps and random rock-tosses killing us. No clues given at all - and if there are, they must be very subtle since no one has picked up on them.

To the point we've seen in the fight, there are exactly 3 different lines of dialogue given by the Giants and they correspond to which Grim is about to spawn. There are no changes to the Giants' stat/vital bars (just the static buffs) and all we see is a very minor tick down of the rage when we kill a Grim. There is no positional indication regardless of where you position anything in the room - just a big spinning chandelier that tempts you into thinking it might mean something...

[Moripopori]

its either sumthin subtile, obvious, you, two other kins an us dont see, or simply a bug bout the *rage-control*... not even the corruptions ya take later on reduce rage significantly... to b honest, challenge mode, killin both with NO rage, hows that supposed to work i wonder... i have a feelin rage should b massively reduced whenever ya bash a grim, doesnt work tho...

the construction above central plat, yay, thought the same, killed grims underneath... same result...

last thing left to b tried, lets fight them naked!!!

we re standin in the rain, huge questionmarks above our heads... we re after the same roundabout 7h ya ve spent in there...

[ofMiceandHobbits]

Same as you.


We've spent about 7 hours over 2 nights trying every variation on reasonable ideas and it always ended up with ginormous Shadow Stomps and random rock-tosses killing us. No clues given at all - and if there are, they must be very subtle since no one has picked up on them.

There is a clue about the rock-toss from the trash mobs of the T2 Fire/Frost wing which helps with the boss fight. Its not random.

[Moripopori]

There is a clue about the rock-toss from the trash mobs of the T2 Fire/Frost wing which helps with the boss fight. Its not random.

hope theres more clues among the trash, especially leadin to a solution bout the rage fair play to ya if ya found sumthin bout them tossin rocks, its annoyin, not most annoyin but still annoyin

ps: lookin at giants n trash, the things both fights share is bubbles, enrage an stone toss... we ve just bashed the trash for its pretty easy, havent had a second look so far... will do so on thurs... solution mite b hidden there... challengin task those two giant muppets kinda fun kinda frustratin...

[Fin.]

About the Rock-toss.

What we think how it works:

The ruffians selfbuff with corruption. When the corruption is active they gain new skill - Mark.

Mark is put on random raid member.

Marked target is being attacked by rock-toss from the trolls.

Rock-toss is aoe knockback.
______________________________ _______

As for the boss fight, we have given up on it. No matter what we tried the giants were gaining rage continuously and wiping us.

[Southpa]

Yeah, 9 hours now and I think we give up.
Picked the wrong wing to put our initial focus on, that's for sure.

To date, we've found one thing to decrease Rage and 2 things that increase it.
I assume there are more, but we never live long enough to find them.
Good luck...