Same loots for all instances ?!

[Castorix]

After some tests, it seems all the loots are the same for all instances.

Tell me this is wrong, otherwise, everyone will do Faceroll School/Lib instances in an infinite loop, by going directly to bosses
(a yellow Champ can kill all adds in a few seconds in these instances, ridiculous !)

[Lunasa]

After some tests, it seems all the loots are the same for all instances.

It does look so

I got the same heavy gloves from School and from Durchest t2c.
Exactly same heavy shoulders from Sambrog and SG. In total I got these shoulders 5 times now and all the time with tanking stats. I did not see even any variety for gear.

[Bhoris_they_spider]

Typical Turbine! After RockX spent (what must have taken ages) re-itemising all of the scaled instances in Update 10, Turbine go and throw it all by bloating stats and introducing minimal 1-dimensional replacements. I know a lot of people disliked the gold farm but it was nice there were lots of different teals (and some interesting procs) which allowed some interesting builds and a degree of customisation etc. Also the different clusters having different drops was nice.

Sometimes Turbine reminds me of a dog constantly chasing its tail.

[Verizal]

As it stands, all instances do pull their rare drops from a common pool based on individual class needs. You have a chance to receive these rewards from all chests.

Incomparable gear has a chance to drop from the final chest, but is instead pulled from a unique list for each instance. Like the rare gear, each individual player has a chance to receive a drop.

Challenge chests will provide a guaranteed incomparable drop, which pulls from all of the available incomparable gear for all classes for a particular instance, but the rewards will be open to all players of the fellowship.

EDIT: As a side note, the 'bloat' in stats was required in order to provide a larger number of viable upgrades. With this expansion, I wanted players to be able to once again find use in uncommon and rare gear, rather than simply look for the next set of incomparables. This progression would not have been possible without the bump.

[Southers]

Typical Turbine! After RockX spent (what must have taken ages) re-itemising all of the scaled instances in Update 10, Turbine go and throw it all by bloating stats and introducing minimal 1-dimensional replacements. I know a lot of people disliked the gold farm but it was nice there were lots of different teals (and some interesting procs) which allowed some interesting builds and a degree of customisation etc. Also the different clusters having different drops was nice.

Sometimes Turbine reminds me of a dog constantly chasing its tail.

I can't help but agree It isn't hard in theory to aknowledge that MMO's need some challenging content for those hardcore players with uber rare loot. Just keep it interesting and sort your loot turbine!

on another note slightly related, why is like every drop from warbands/ skirms/ instances a box full of marks, marks are boring i want loot. Loot that I know occasionally might be something rare. I miss those days where you would inspect a player and notice a piece you've never even heard of, ask them how they got it and tell you all the pain they went through! Its actually a big incentive to keep playing

[Elrendos]

In Turbine's defense I noticed that even landscape loot drops are worth looking at while leveling. I just downloaded HD the other day and I am at level 88 currently but even now I have seen some loot that is better then my Hytbold gear. I typically just vendor trash everything but I've managed to replace one or two pieces with pretty decent 'green' gear. I can't wait and see what I'll be able to loot closer to level 95!

[Schinderhannes]

Does this mean that every class has only one rare version of shoulders? Or has the global lootable more than just 6 purple Items for each class?

Have all incomparable lootables from scaled instances been changed?

[matalan]

As it stands, all instances do pull their rare drops from a common pool based on individual class needs. You have a chance to receive these rewards from all chests.

Incomparable gear has a chance to drop from the final chest, but is instead pulled from a unique list for each instance. Like the rare gear, each individual player has a chance to receive a drop.

Challenge chests will provide a guaranteed incomparable drop, which pulls from all of the available incomparable gear for all classes for a particular instance, but the rewards will be open to all players of the fellowship.

I'm not sure that's what we are seeing though!

I've tested a few things myself at lvl 50 to see what drops where, and done a good few T2C lvl 95 runs.

Incomparible = Teal yes?

Final chests are giving a mix of purples and teals, which is fine, but this certainly doesn't seem to be unique to the instances, as peeps have said above as well. I've had the same drops from school/library, iorbars peak, sambrog, thadur. So maybe this is the loot you mention in this sentance: all instances do pull their rare drops from a common pool based on individual class needs. You have a chance to receive these rewards from ALL chests.

If so then where ARE the unique instance teals from the final chest? I've not seen anything from any chest ever, other than 'Potent' xyz (purples) or 'Greater' xyz (teals)

lastly you mention challenge chest giving promised teal drop - this chest opens with classic loot rules, IE roll/pass, master looter, which seems to make sense when you have described what drops. BUT, all I have seen from these are bounties, fused relics and IXP tunes if i recall correctly. Certainly not seen any Teals at all.


I thought I would feedback to try and help explain what I've seen and hope you can take time to check what might be happening! Thanks for your reply, if I've got the wrong end of the stick I apologise, but I think something is not working as intended here for sure.

[Eomon]

As it stands, all instances do pull their rare drops from a common pool based on individual class needs. You have a chance to receive these rewards from all chests.

Incomparable gear has a chance to drop from the final chest, but is instead pulled from a unique list for each instance. Like the rare gear, each individual player has a chance to receive a drop.

Challenge chests will provide a guaranteed incomparable drop, which pulls from all of the available incomparable gear for all classes for a particular instance, but the rewards will be open to all players of the fellowship.

EDIT: As a side note, the 'bloat' in stats was required in order to provide a larger number of viable upgrades. With this expansion, I wanted players to be able to once again find use in uncommon and rare gear, rather than simply look for the next set of incomparables. This progression would not have been possible without the bump.

This sounds like an awesome idea, but why is it not working this way? This is getting a little ridiculous that Turbine keeps dropping the ball when it comes to loot tables in new content....

[bohbashum]

EDIT: As a side note, the 'bloat' in stats was required in order to provide a larger number of viable upgrades. With this expansion, I wanted players to be able to once again find use in uncommon and rare gear, rather than simply look for the next set of incomparables. This progression would not have been possible without the bump.

you've yet to bump down how the rating to percentages ratio's properly like you said you would in beta

I respect the changes, just numbers really, but it is making a lot of content far to easy now.

[YesMaam]

I've gotten the same pocket from 7 platinum chest, the same gold twice. Not finishing set bonuses. Seems silly to get the same gold multiple times...

[spelunker]

As it stands, all instances do pull their rare drops from a common pool based on individual class needs. You have a chance to receive these rewards from all chests.

Incomparable gear has a chance to drop from the final chest, but is instead pulled from a unique list for each instance. Like the rare gear, each individual player has a chance to receive a drop.

Challenge chests will provide a guaranteed incomparable drop, which pulls from all of the available incomparable gear for all classes for a particular instance, but the rewards will be open to all players of the fellowship.

EDIT: As a side note, the 'bloat' in stats was required in order to provide a larger number of viable upgrades. With this expansion, I wanted players to be able to once again find use in uncommon and rare gear, rather than simply look for the next set of incomparables. This progression would not have been possible without the bump.

The concept of this is very good. I think you'll find many players like the general concept of how you've done loot distribution, however:

As others have mentioned, the guaranteed incomparable drop seems to be not working. Are there any limitations on this that we might not be aware of (using the instance finder rather than manually creating the instance springs to mind)? While I've done only about a dozen scaled instances t2c, only half of them have dropped a 'teal' item, between all group member not just my personal drop rate in these instances.

The stats bloat is adding to a problem that has been growing for several years now in LOTRO, easy instances. Instances have managed to become even easier at 95 than they were at 85, which in a certain respect is actually impressive. While I don't think that is particularly your area of concern, the added stats bloat is further exacerbating the problem. If I was able to solo all the 3-man classics on t2c (where t2 exists, and where a mechanic doesn't exist preventing you from doing the challenge solo, like school) solo, at lvl 93, with 100% lvl 85 gear, why would I care about 'yellow' or 'purple' gear being relatively better? Its the same concept as why no one will be 'cashing out' their loot for bronze and silver rewards in big battles. They don't 'need' the yellow or purple gear to complete anything, so they will skip it and go straight for the top tier stuff.

More of a personal thing, but the naming scheme of prefixes and affixes, while somewhat more informative than what we had in the past does nothing but remind me of the Diablo-esque RNG item grind, rather than the content/lore based instance advancement atmosphere LOTRO has had in the past.

[matalan]

OK, re-read what was put above by Verizal and thinking it could mean the following:

A rare (purple) item (let's just call it Potent Sword of Finesse) - can drop from any chest, any instance.
The incomparible (teal) version of the same item (Greater Sword of Finesse) - should only be found in the final chest of a specific instance.


I will have to do some re-testing myself. Have I got that right Verizal?


Or.... is there loot we just plain aren't seeing drop at all?

Hoping to clear this up so we aren't running around looking for loot like headless chickens! lol D

[Verizal]

So I'll see if I can clarify a bit more as to how things should be working, just so everyone is on the same page. Regardless, I will be looking into this personally to see where things may have gone wrong.

Rare (Purple) Gear
- All chests in all instances will pull from the same pool of rare gear that is relevant to all of your classes potential roles (DPS/Tank/Heal). There are numerous options for each slot, so exact duplicates are possible, but should not be all that likely (I can't really speak for the wonders of probability however).

Incomparable (Teal) Gear
- All final chests have a chance to pull from a unique list of incomparables that is relevant to one or more of your potential roles. When I say unique list, I mean that no two instances should have the same potential loot, and you should not see a single piece of gear in more than two instances. For example:

Instance 1 -
Shoulder
Ring

Instance 2 -
Chest
Feet

Instance 3 -
Necklace
Feet

The reason behind this is that I did not want to provide the potential for all stat groupings in a single area of PvE (Instances), and instead wanted players to explore as many areas of content as possible. For instance, a Burglar looking for a heavy crit build might be able to get crit-heavy boots from instances, but only a physical mastery-heavy chest piece. To get the crit-heavy chest piece, they may need to resort to reputation or warband lootboxes. If I were going to keep incomparable rewards completely unique, given the number of instances, it would mean that most spaces would only typically have one reward and thus be less meaningful to run once the drop was received. By keeping unique lists, however, I can at least assure that all instances maintain a chance of being run, and one is not overshadowed by another simply because it is easier to reach the last chest.

- Challenge chests should contain a pull from all of the potential last chest rewards for all classes. Unlike other chests, this loot will be opened up to the fellowship as a whole. I will be looking into reasons why this might not be dropping.


In regards to stat bloat and ease of instance running, we do realize that more balance is required, and do not intend to leave things in their current state. Part of the reason that I wanted to go with this loot scheme was to account for the potential ease of instance running, so that even is a player is managing to solo their way through an instance, there is no guarantee that they will simply be handed a piece of gear that they need.

When it comes to the rating to percentage ratio, adjustments were made, but it was not as drastic as I had imagined it would need to be, given the new stat groupings/allocations. We still do intend to do a full-on revision to how our caps are set up, but much of what you are seeing now will be addressed through further class revisions and adjustments to mobs that are 85+

[Eomon]

So I'll see if I can clarify a bit more as to how things should be working, just so everyone is on the same page. Regardless, I will be looking into this personally to see where things may have gone wrong.

Wow, personally I think a ton of people (including myself) would have really loved this if it had gone through as intended. Kind of a shame now though with most loot just being handed out in any instance you ever do :/

Feels like the Erebor FA crisis all over again....

[spelunker]

Incomparable (Teal) Gear
- All final chests have a chance to pull from a unique list of incomparables that is relevant to one or more of your potential roles. When I say unique list, I mean that no two instances should have the same potential loot, and you should not see a single piece of gear in more than two instances. For example:

Instance 1 -
Shoulder
Ring

Instance 2 -
Chest
Feet

Instance 3 -
Necklace
Feet

The reason behind this is that I did not want to provide the potential for all stat groupings in a single area of PvE (Instances), and instead wanted players to explore as many areas of content as possible. For instance, a Burglar looking for a heavy crit build might be able to get crit-heavy boots from instances, but only a physical mastery-heavy chest piece. To get the crit-heavy chest piece, they may need to resort to reputation or warband lootboxes. If I were going to keep incomparable rewards completely unique, given the number of instances, it would mean that most spaces would only typically have one reward and thus be less meaningful to run once the drop was received. By keeping unique lists, however, I can at least assure that all instances maintain a chance of being run, and one is not overshadowed by another simply because it is easier to reach the last chest.

- Challenge chests should contain a pull from all of the potential last chest rewards for all classes. Unlike other chests, this loot will be opened up to the fellowship as a whole. I will be looking into reasons why this might not be dropping.

This still isn't making complete sense to me, maybe Verizal or someone who does understand this can clarify further.

Are you saying that for example the "greater steadfast pocket of protection" should only drop from 1 or 2 total instances of all the 37 (by my count) scaled instances in the game? the first half of this quote says yes, but the second half makes it sound more like only a few instances will drop pocket items, but that any instance that does drop a pocket item could drop any of the various 'teal' pocket items that fit with my classes potential roles.

Finally, the challenge chest thingy, I can say that not a single teal has come up for roll/pass from a challenge chest. some further clarification though, is the group roll that should be happening a random item that can drop from the last chest in that specific instance, or ANY last chest loot item from any instance?

[Taravith]

In regards to stat bloat and ease of instance running, we do realize that more balance is required, and do not intend to leave things in their current state.

Aaand I almost re-subscribed. Glad to know that I'll soon be back to being unable to enjoy 90% of the end-game content because I don't have an infinite pool of prospective fellows available 24/7. Maybe one of those years I'll even be able to do a raid!

How about just leaving Tier 1 on "easy mode" and bumping up the others? Now that'd be neat.

[Verizal]

This still isn't making complete sense to me, maybe Verizal or someone who does understand this can clarify further.

Are you saying that for example the "greater steadfast pocket of protection" should only drop from 1 or 2 total instances of all the 37 (by my count) scaled instances in the game? the first half of this quote says yes, but the second half makes it sound more like only a few instances will drop pocket items, but that any instance that does drop a pocket item could drop any of the various 'teal' pocket items that fit with my classes potential roles.

Finally, the challenge chest thingy, I can say that not a single teal has come up for roll/pass from a challenge chest. some further clarification though, is the group roll that should be happening a random item that can drop from the last chest in that specific instance, or ANY last chest loot item from any instance?

In my example, you can replace the general "Chest" and "Feet" listings with a specific piece. So in the case of "greater steadfast pocket of protection", you should only ever see that specific piece drop from two instances as a particular class. If you were hoping for a dps-oriented pocket item, that would drop from two different instances.

Regarding the challenge chest, when functional, it should only be pulling from the list of items that could potentially drop in the last chest of that particular instance.

[spelunker]

In my example, you can replace the general "Chest" and "Feet" listings with a specific piece. So in the case of "greater steadfast pocket of protection", you should only ever see that specific piece drop from two instances as a particular class. If you were hoping for a dps-oriented pocket item, that would drop from two different instances.

Regarding the challenge chest, when functional, it should only be pulling from the list of items that could potentially drop in the last chest of that particular instance.

thank you for the update, makes perfect sense now.

[bohbashum]

When it comes to the rating to percentage ratio, adjustments were made, but it was not as drastic as I had imagined it would need to be, given the new stat groupings/allocations. We still do intend to do a full-on revision to how our caps are set up, but much of what you are seeing now will be addressed through further class revisions and adjustments to mobs that are 85+

I'll trust you on that as I never wrote down my stats before U12, but the changes to ratio's seems so minute I've not noticed at all.

glad to hear this will under go more tweaking as time goes on HD might have come out rough but it's looking very hopeful everytime you guys tell us stuff ^_^

[mrfigglesworth]

I too have never seen an incomparable (teal) drop from a challenge chest. What was the reason you decided to re-implement master loot/free roll type chests back into the game?

Also, I have noticed an incredibly high amount of loot dropping from classic 3 and 6 man instances. It's nice to have that carrot back in as part of the instance. It's also appreciated seeing a real reward for beating challenge mode on 6 mans (seals).

Finally, I hope you really take a look at 85+ mob and instance difficulty like I (think I) heard you hinting at in a previous post on this thread. I would like to see tier 2 challenges be challenging again.

[PKCrichton]

I too have never seen an incomparable (teal) drop from a challenge chest. What was the reason you decided to re-implement master loot/free roll type chests back into the game?

Also, I have noticed an incredibly high amount of loot dropping from classic 3 and 6 man instances. It's nice to have that carrot back in as part of the instance. It's also appreciated seeing a real reward for beating challenge mode on 6 mans (seals).

Finally, I hope you really take a look at 85+ mob and instance difficulty like I (think I) heard you hinting at in a previous post on this thread. I would like to see tier 2 challenges be challenging again.

The reason master loot/free roll was put back in was because we all asked for it ever since it was 'removed'. Groups/Raids were having people who already had 'gold cloak of x' obtaining them again and again while other members of the group could utilize them. To 'fix' this we asked for master loot back.

[spelunker]

I too have never seen an incomparable (teal) drop from a challenge chest. What was the reason you decided to re-implement master loot/free roll type chests back into the game?

I'd venture to guess this was in response to all the complaints of people running a 3/6/12 man instance and having none of your fellow/raid members get anything besides purples/LIXP/Relics.

[Leo_Dan]

So I'll see if I can clarify a bit more as to how things should be working, just so everyone is on the same page. Regardless, I will be looking into this personally to see where things may have gone wrong.

Rare (Purple) Gear
- All chests in all instances will pull from the same pool of rare gear that is relevant to all of your classes potential roles (DPS/Tank/Heal). There are numerous options for each slot, so exact duplicates are possible, but should not be all that likely (I can't really speak for the wonders of probability however).

Incomparable (Teal) Gear
- All final chests have a chance to pull from a unique list of incomparables that is relevant to one or more of your potential roles. When I say unique list, I mean that no two instances should have the same potential loot, and you should not see a single piece of gear in more than two instances. For example:

Instance 1 -
Shoulder
Ring

Instance 2 -
Chest
Feet

Instance 3 -
Necklace
Feet

Given that this is true, are you guys at Turbine releasing some type of list to help people out or is it incumbent upon the players to gather the requisite information?

It wouldn't even have to be something specific, just a general idea of what type of stuff is where.

[mrfigglesworth]

I'd venture to guess this was in response to all the complaints of people running a 3/6/12 man instance and having none of your fellow/raid members get anything besides purples/LIXP/Relics.

The reason master loot/free roll was put back in was because we all asked for it ever since it was 'removed'. Groups/Raids were having people who already had 'gold cloak of x' obtaining them again and again while other members of the group could utilize them. To 'fix' this we asked for master loot back.

Valid reasons, I had the same issue many times, but then why leave some items remote loot and only challenge chests free roll/master loot?